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why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
"HFguy" wrote in message news:zxOKh.349$742.209@trndny07... I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand that few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and when combined with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and which can be subject to interference, they don't listen to them. The real problem is that you, Edweenie, don't realize that you are posting in what is ostensibly a *hobby* news group, where folks actually *do* listen to things that fall outside of the parameters of your little fantasy world. It's not a fantasy world. It's just that we (here) don't fit into the demographics of the vast majority of AM listeners. If we had it our way, there would be no interference problems to prohibit us from listening to distant AM stations. But the consequence of that would be fewer AM stations in the future to listen too. You can't have the first without the second, given the state that AM radio is in now. Unfortunately for us, the numbers will win in the end and we really can't do anything about it. As he said, radio is all about the money. And maybe we should all be wondering how we DX the HD signals. We are starting to hear that they do skip, and when alone on a channel, rather easy to ID. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
Continuing with the info-mercial, David Frackelton Gleason, who poses as 'Eduardo', and whose employer, Univision, has an interest in HD/IBOC, wrote: "HFguy" wrote in message news:zRNKh.347$742.57@trndny07... David Eduardo wrote: This is not market research of some unknown brand. It is the analysis by ZIP Code and signal strength of what gets listening and what does not. Smaller signals get no significant diary mentions. How often do shortwave entries show up in the diaries? I have been reviewing diaries since 1970 (you have to go to Arbitron in suburban Maryland to see them) and have never seen an SW entry. They must have thrown mine way! I've completed two diaries, and both had entries for SW radio. Guess that makes the whole process pretty much worthless! Figures... The info-mercial goes on, and on, and on. dxAce Michigan USA |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
Continuing with the info-mercial, David Frackelton Gleason, who poses as 'Eduardo', and whose employer, Univision, has an interest in HD/IBOC, wrote: "HFguy" wrote in message news:zxOKh.349$742.209@trndny07... I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand that few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and when combined with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and which can be subject to interference, they don't listen to them. The real problem is that you, Edweenie, don't realize that you are posting in what is ostensibly a *hobby* news group, where folks actually *do* listen to things that fall outside of the parameters of your little fantasy world. It's not a fantasy world. It's just that we (here) don't fit into the demographics of the vast majority of AM listeners. If we had it our way, there would be no interference problems to prohibit us from listening to distant AM stations. But the consequence of that would be fewer AM stations in the future to listen too. You can't have the first without the second, given the state that AM radio is in now. Unfortunately for us, the numbers will win in the end and we really can't do anything about it. As he said, radio is all about the money. And maybe we should all be wondering how we DX the HD signals. We are starting to hear that they do skip, and when alone on a channel, rather easy to ID. Well, at least that makes it easy to ID the QRM. dxAce Michigan USA |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
"dxAce" wrote in message ... ? I have been reviewing diaries since 1970 (you have to go to Arbitron in suburban Maryland to see them) and have never seen an SW entry. They must have thrown mine way! I've completed two diaries, and both had entries for SW radio. No diary that is filled out (name and address and a tick on each page that says it was filled out) is thrown away. Even if no local station gets mentioned. Or no station at all. All I am saying is that I never personally saw an SW entry, although I would imagine one pops up on occasion. Since each station that gets a mention of 5 minutes or more in a diary is also in the computer database called Maximi$er that Arbitron gives to subscribers, I can say I have never seen a SW station appearing in a local market report, either. If they occur, they are very few and not regular in any market. Guess that makes the whole process pretty much worthless! No, it makes it realistic. Figures... The info-mercial goes on, and on, and on. dxAce Michigan USA |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message .com... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: , ground condutivity, tc. Must be a piece of crap software you use. It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also. So how are you misusing it then? I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and totally simple for someone with an engineering background. Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m in your ZIP code. Sounds like a false assumption. It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. . My listening data comes from the 4-book average for listening in your ZIP code, correlated with actual signal strength there. So what is wrong with your data then? Nothing. In urban zones, there is no listening to speak of outside the 10 mv/m contour... in very noisy places like NY and LA, there is very little outside the 15 mv/m curves. The simple fact is that in densely populated areas in the US, there is seldom any AM listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. Somehow you have misinterpreted the data. There is nothing to misinterpret. In your ZIP, no station with below a 10 mv/m get listening. Somehow you are going wrong here. What do you think the problem might be? I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand that few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and when combined with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and which can be subject to interference, they don't listen to them. Along with not being interested in where your assumptions are incorrect you don't seem to be as interested in reality as you are your own special view of it. There are far more than 3 stations that are local to me. There are over a dozen. You know this but will not acknowledge it. These local stations put in strong signals so noise is not an issue. There is no problem picking them up. You don't have to "try" for them. Your statement that nobody has more than 3 strong signal stations is a complete fabrication. The fact that you will not acknowledge it when called on your bad assumptions shows that you will continue to post articles with fabricated information to the news group. Sorted by distance from my location. Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm KVEN *1450 AM 3.4 *Ventura, CA *Oldies -29 KKZZ *1590 AM 6.2 *Ventura, CA Talk -32 KOXR *910 AM 9.3 *Oxnard, CA *Spanish -40 KUNX 1400 AM 11.6 *Santa Paula, CA *Spanish -65 KVTA 1520 AM 12.3 *Port Hueneme, CA *Talk -39 KZSB *1290 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA *News -55 KIST * 1340 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA *Talk -55 KBKO *1490 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55 KZER *1250 AM 31.5 *Santa Barbara, CA *Spanish -56 KIRN *670 AM 32.8 *Simi Valley, CA *Ethnic -66 KSPN *710 AM 50.9 *Los Angeles, CA *Sports -60 KNX *1070 AM 61.5 *Los Angeles, CA *News -54 KRLA 870 AM 61.7 *Glendale, CA *News/Talk -65 KFI *640 AM 78.4 *Los Angeles, CA *Talk -68 KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69 Sorted by daytime signal strength. Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm KVEN *1450 AM 3.4 *Ventura, CA Oldies -29 KKZZ *1590 AM 6.2 *Ventura, CA Talk -32 KVTA *1520 AM 12.3 * Port Hueneme, CA Talk -39 KOXR *910 AM 9.3 Oxnard, CA *Spanish -40 KNX *1070 AM 61.5 *Los Angeles, CA News -54 KZSB *1290 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA News -55 KIST *1340 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA Talk -55 KBKO *1490 AM 24.4 *Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55 KZER *1250 AM 31.5 *Santa Barbara, CA *Spanish -56 KSPN *710 AM 50.9 *Los Angeles, CA *Sports -60 KUNX *1400 AM 11.6 *Santa Paula, CA *Spanish -65 KRLA *870 AM 61.7 *Glendale, CA *News/Talk -65 KIRN *670 AM 32.8 *Simi Valley, CA *Ethnic -66 KFI *640 AM 78.4 *Los Angeles, CA *Talk -68 KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69 -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote: David Eduardo wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message .. . In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: , ground condutivity, tc. Must be a piece of crap software you use. It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also. So how are you misusing it then? I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and totally simple for someone with an engineering background. Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m in your ZIP code. Sounds like a false assumption. It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And why this exchange can get as heated as it does. Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none' is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero. And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to a sales curve. No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers. Snip David is making that assumption based on signal strength. People will not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large market so AM is pretty much Dead. I try to tell him that I live in the northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "RHF" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 16, 7:37 am, "David Eduardo" wrote: "Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... He'd have to swing a LONG way the opposite direction to even get me to pay attention at this point. I have been a long-time viewer of Univision and Galavision television (until I moved here, where I have no access to them (and technically, they are one and the same at this point, IIRC)), but thanks to the intractible stubbornness of David Edurardo, their representative (at least of their radio group, but a corporate representative nonetheless), I will not bother to watch their television outlets any longer. I never have listened to any of their radio outlets, preferring instead to listen to small local Spanish outlets when I was in that particular listening mood. Since we do not have any radio stations in Oregon, that statement is absurd - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - DE - You reply points out your Two Big Problem : # 1 - The Certainty of Your Knowledge {Elitism} # 2 - The Dismissive Attitude that you have for Anyone who is Not Ratable and Salable. Commercial radio sells sets of ears. If there are no ears, there are no sales. If there are no sales, there is no commercial radio in the US. The model has been about reaching listeners and selling their attention to advertisers since the early 20's. That's because you are deaf. Other people do not have your problem. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... ? I have been reviewing diaries since 1970 (you have to go to Arbitron in suburban Maryland to see them) and have never seen an SW entry. They must have thrown mine way! I've completed two diaries, and both had entries for SW radio. No diary that is filled out (name and address and a tick on each page that says it was filled out) is thrown away. Even if no local station gets mentioned. Or no station at all. All I am saying is that I never personally saw an SW entry, although I would imagine one pops up on occasion. Since each station that gets a mention of 5 minutes or more in a diary is also in the computer database called Maximi$er that Arbitron gives to subscribers, I can say I have never seen a SW station appearing in a local market report, either. If they occur, they are very few and not regular in any market. Guess that makes the whole process pretty much worthless! No, it makes it realistic. Snip So then that would make it realistically worthless then. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
Telamon wrote: In article , D Peter Maus wrote: David Eduardo wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message .. . In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: , ground condutivity, tc. Must be a piece of crap software you use. It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also. So how are you misusing it then? I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and totally simple for someone with an engineering background. Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m in your ZIP code. Sounds like a false assumption. It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And why this exchange can get as heated as it does. Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none' is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero. And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to a sales curve. No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers. Snip David is making that assumption based on signal strength. People will not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large market so AM is pretty much Dead. I try to tell him that I live in the northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so. All the poor boy has are his numbers! I think he's been shunned by the others at the tequila cooler. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
dxAce wrote: Telamon wrote: In article , D Peter Maus wrote: David Eduardo wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message om.. . In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: , ground condutivity, tc. Must be a piece of crap software you use. It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also. So how are you misusing it then? I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and totally simple for someone with an engineering background. Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m in your ZIP code. Sounds like a false assumption. It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And why this exchange can get as heated as it does. Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none' is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero. And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to a sales curve. No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers. Snip David is making that assumption based on signal strength. People will not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large market so AM is pretty much Dead. I try to tell him that I live in the northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so. All the poor boy has are his numbers! I just posted some new numbers for him to mull over. I think he's been shunned by the others at the tequila cooler. A switch to vodka might help. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
ohhhh,,, Hut Sut Rawlson on the Rillerahhh and a brawla,brawla
sooit,ohhhh,,,, Hut Sut Rawlson on the Rillerah and a brawla,brawla sooit. Now the Rawlson is a Swedish town,the Rillerah is a stream,the brawla is the boy and girl,the Hut Sut is their dream. ohhhh,,,,, Hut Sut Rawlson on the Rillerah and a brawla,brawla sooit. cuhulin |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
Bart Bailey wrote:
In Message-ID:zRNKh.347$742.57@trndny07 posted on Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:42:07 GMT, HFguy wrote: Begin David Eduardo wrote: This is not market research of some unknown brand. It is the analysis by ZIP Code and signal strength of what gets listening and what does not. Smaller signals get no significant diary mentions. How often do shortwave entries show up in the diaries? Many years ago when I was in the 17 - 34 demographic and telephone surveyors would call, I'd often indicate my true favorite, WWV LOL. I couldn't spare the time listening to that station. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
On Mar 16, 11:37�am, D Peter Maus wrote:
David Eduardo wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: , ground condutivity, tc. Must be a piece of crap software you use. It's the most used software for both vieweing existing operations and for creating applications for new stations. It gives very precise contours per the FCC rules, although I used the option to do signal averaging for a ZIP Code since the data I am referencing to, Arbitron listening, can be broken into ZIP Codes also. So how are you misusing it then? I am not misusing it. It's pretty easy to use even for a layman, and totally simple for someone with an engineering background. Yet listeners do not listen to them when the signal is below 10 mv/m in your ZIP code. Sounds like a false assumption. It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. * * Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And why this exchange can get as heated as it does. * * Start with the presentation of Dismissal. *David, 'essentially none' is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero. * * And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to a sales curve. * * No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers. * * What's being objected to, David, is the abject dismissal of a body of listeners for the simple reason that they don't fit into established sales categories, or that they don't exist in numbers worthy of a station's time. * * There was a time that FCC protected the rights of listeners to select the station of their choice no matter what, so that content, local or not, that was available to the individual listener could be heard, absent unavoidable interference from co- and adjacent channels. What's so strenously objected to, here today, is that those listeners are no longer considered. That a station in protecting it's sales curve, may acceptably and with FCC blessing, create interference with stations not in it's ADI. Removing from availability content that may simply not be available anywhere else. * * The presumption that all content that's local is desireable content is false on it's face. As you've lived and worked in smaller markets, you know that out of market listening is more common than in larger markets because local content is of a lesser quality, or of a lesser psychographic match to the listener. For instance....when I worked evenings at KOEL-Oelwein, Iowa (77-78), my biggest competition was KWWL, Waterloo. Followed very closely by WLS. Stuart's research arm noted often that our local playlist was influenced by listening out of market, and that songs that sold well, based on radio airplay were often songs that were not being played in town. Or even, in state. Randy Newman's "Short People" was the classic example. WLS and KWWL were on it. We were not, nor was any local station available to the market. And yet, it was the number one selling song in-market, and research indicated that those sales were spurred by airplay. * * Now, WLS listenership was not big in town. And KWWL listenership was about 1/10th of our own, But it was not uncommon. And, content that was available on WLS, was NOT available locally. Cutting off those listeners for whatever reason, removed both their freedom of choice, as well as their availability to information that was not available locally. * * That didn't change the local sales strategy. And sales remained only focussed within the contours, as you and I have delineated. But listenership was NOT limited to the contours. And this was a phenomenon that I have experienced in multiple markets. * * WLS, WGN and WBBM were factors in Decatur, and Rockford, as well. WGN was particularly strong in Rockford when I was at WROK. And our daily RAM showed WGN consistently strong in Rockford, especially where news was concerned, and WE were the local news leader, hands down. * * But news content not available locally was daily picked up from WGN and WBBM. * * Today, IBOC hash from Chicago reaches into Rockford, Decatur and some of Oelwein's listening area, affecting listenership in those markets, by putting off content that is NOT available locally. * * Hell, Steve's whole point about WBBM's IBOC hash is that it keeps him from listening to HIS station of choice. Content that's not available within his protected contour. What he's objecting to, here, as are Brenda Ann, Eric Richards, Telamon and others (including myself) is the ease with which we are dismissed as listeners, because we don't fit into established cubbyholes based on map and Arbitron sales contours. * * We count. We are big users of Radio. And we are not an insignificant number. In aggregate, nationwide, we are a top 10 market. And yet, we are dismissed, because we are not saleable locally. Even undesireable, as Mark Byford so elegantly put it. No longer protected by the standards of interference from FCC, or by standards of good practice established by Radio's greatest practicioners. * * We are dismissed. And we are dismissed with prejudice. And we don't like it. We don't like having our choices limited. And we don't like having our access to, sometimes, important information restricted by cutting us off from sources where that information available. * * Admit it or not, the homogenization of Radio is not complete. And local news is both highly selective and highly edited. Just because the same information is available to news organizations nationwide doesn't make it available to local listeners everywhere the same. Just because content is available to stations nationwide, doesn't make it available to local listeners, everwhere the same. Rush is not locally available everywhere. Neither is Liddy. Nor Dr Laura. And where, previously, a little ingenuity and a piece of wire made content not locally available accessible, now, that's not the case. *And denial of this distinction is at the heart of the hostility you've been the brunt of since this discussion began. * * Alternatives are available. Webcasting, for instance. I've moved to satellite. And thousands of other orphaned listeners are now accessing their content of choice from alternative sources, where they can. Alternatives that take them away from Radio. * * Statistically, they're zero. Essentially, there is no listening where they are. * * But "essentially none" none is not NONE. And "statistically zero" is not ZERO. *And you're not going to convince anyone here that they are. Especially, in the effort to tell them that they don't matter, that their freedom of choice is not important, and that they can always access content locally. *Because none of that is true. * * And if you REALLY want to create allies, telling us how little we matter, and using statistical renderings to do it, isn't the way. * * The biggest problem that Americans have with the businesses they have to interface every day, is that they are told in not so subtle ways, with every transaction, that they don't matter. That they are only numbers. That they are only ticks on a sales curve. And that their complaints are simply not relevant. * * As long as you continue to quote statistics, contour minima, and FCC policy, you're assertions, here will not only fall on deaf ears, but they will continue to ratchet up the ire of everyone so easily and statistically dismissed. And you will be held in the same high esteem as the asshole goat ****ers in boardrooms worldwide, who do business with a nearly open contempt for their customers. You will continue to be the face of "The Corporation." And this ****ing match between your side and ours will go on, without resolution. * * But consider, that as a Program Director, you have the skills to not only present your product in a venerable light, and do so while listening to your listeners one on one, you have the experience and the skills to make a personal "Lifetime Experience" contact with anyone here. But as a Broadcaster, you have the talent and resources to change the face of this discussion. To turn adversaries into allies. * * To find a better way. * * For this discussion, take a step back. Don't talk like a boardroom weenie. Talk like a broadcaster. Listen like we're your listeners. Communicate. One on one. As you and I have here on occasion. Listen to what these people have to say. Don't be so quick to dismiss. Embrace. We are all, here, potentially your biggest allies. And you treat us like dog **** on the sole of your boot. * * Find a better way. * * David Peter Maus.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That is exaclty what AM-HD will do - drive listeners away, in-droves, to Satellite and Internet Radio, or just to abandon radio altogether. What a joke - a few tens-of-thousands of HD Radio listeners, versus alienating many more times analog listeners, due to AM-HD hash. HD/ IBOC will just accelerate the death of terrestrial radio. I tuned to our three AM-HD stations in Maryland, and just above and below the main analog channel, were the sounds of a large waterfall - those wonderful digital saddle-bags ! |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
On Mar 16, 11:41?am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dxAce" wrote in message ... The real problem is that you, Edweenie, don't realize that you are posting in what is ostensibly a *hobby* news group, where folks actually *do* listen to things that fall outside of the parameters of your little fantasy world. The point is that the radio industry, both in the US and worldwide, is changing. In the case of AM, it is trying to save itself... a task that may not even be possible. DXers generally, in the past, have followed with interest, the industry that produces the signals that are listened too. HD is one of the changes that the industry has determined will help in the future, and it is definitely here. Next week, the FCC has the IBOC/HD issue on its agenda. They are expected to remove the "experimental" STA for HD and authorize the system, and most trade magazines and such believe night HD will also be authorized on the theory of greatest good for the greatest number of people. So it is obviously a hobby concern. And your R8B does not have HD! What a joke - no one is listening in HD. This will just accelerate the death of AM. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand that few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and when combined with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and which can be subject to interference, they don't listen to them. Along with not being interested in where your assumptions are incorrect you don't seem to be as interested in reality as you are your own special view of it. I am making no assumptions, so such assumptions can not be incorrect. The facts are very simple. 1. The FCC provides data by which the field strength of any station can be caluculated in any location. This data and commercial software are so accurate, the FCC is now considering the actual readings of field strength on radials of each directional station or for non-DA proofs. 2. Arbitron provides down to the ZIP Code level information on every station listened to for at least 5 minutes in a week in each ZIP code. 3. Looking at signal strength vs. listening shows that metro area stations without a consistent, 10 mv/m or better day and night signal do not get any significant listening. Stations in the high end of the 5 mv/m to 10 mv/m will get occasional mentions, but not enough to "make the book" and be statistically significant. There are far more than 3 stations that are local to me. "Local" is not a technical term in this context. This discussion is about how "large" a signal has to be to register any listening, and in AM, that level in metro areas is 10 mv/m or above One station that is "local" to me in LA is KBLA... 50 kw at 1580. But I live to the east of its site, and can barely hear it daytime and not at all at night... yet the towers are less than 10 miles from me. There are over a dozen. You know this but will not acknowledge it. These local stations put in strong signals so noise is not an issue. There is no problem picking them up. You don't have to "try" for them. If they don't have 10 mv/m in your ZIP, nobody listens, per Arbitron. In most markets, you can pretty accurately trace the 10 mv/m contour of a station via plotting diaries Stations all over the US realize this, and generally do their audience promotion inside the contour under the theory that elsewhere there is no return on the investment. Your statement that nobody has more than 3 strong signal stations is a complete fabrication. I did not say that. I said there are only 3 signals over 10 mv/m at your location. I did say that few markets have more than one or two viable AM stations that cover day and night the metro. Some have none, like ashington, DC and Ventura, others like LA and SF have a few more. The fact that you will not acknowledge it when called on your bad assumptions shows that you will continue to post articles with fabricated information to the news group. Sorted by distance from my location. Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm KVEN 1450 AM 3.4 Ventura, CA Oldies -29 KKZZ 1590 AM 6.2 Ventura, CA Talk -32 KOXR 910 AM 9.3 Oxnard, CA Spanish -40 KUNX 1400 AM 11.6 Santa Paula, CA Spanish -65 KVTA 1520 AM 12.3 Port Hueneme, CA Talk -39 KZSB 1290 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA News -55 KIST 1340 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Talk -55 KBKO 1490 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55 KZER 1250 AM 31.5 Santa Barbara, CA Spanish -56 KIRN 670 AM 32.8 Simi Valley, CA Ethnic -66 KSPN 710 AM 50.9 Los Angeles, CA Sports -60 KNX 1070 AM 61.5 Los Angeles, CA News -54 KRLA 870 AM 61.7 Glendale, CA News/Talk -65 KFI 640 AM 78.4 Los Angeles, CA Talk -68 KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69 Sorted by daytime signal strength. Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm KVEN 1450 AM 3.4 Ventura, CA Oldies -29 KKZZ 1590 AM 6.2 Ventura, CA Talk -32 KVTA 1520 AM 12.3 Port Hueneme, CA Talk -39 KOXR 910 AM 9.3 Oxnard, CA Spanish -40 KNX 1070 AM 61.5 Los Angeles, CA News -54 KZSB 1290 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA News -55 KIST 1340 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Talk -55 KBKO 1490 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55 KZER 1250 AM 31.5 Santa Barbara, CA Spanish -56 KSPN 710 AM 50.9 Los Angeles, CA Sports -60 KUNX 1400 AM 11.6 Santa Paula, CA Spanish -65 KRLA 870 AM 61.7 Glendale, CA News/Talk -65 KIRN 670 AM 32.8 Simi Valley, CA Ethnic -66 KFI 640 AM 78.4 Los Angeles, CA Talk -68 KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69 You can't really think anyone would use S-meter readings in place of calculated contours or field strength readings with a calibrated, type approved FIM, can you? Of all these stations, only 3 get significant ratings in your ZIP code.. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And why this exchange can get as heated as it does. Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none' is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero. And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to a sales curve. No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers. Snip David is making that assumption based on signal strength. I am not making assumptions, as I said before. I am stating fact: stations on AM in metro areas do not get listening of a statistically significant nature outside the 10 mv/m contour. Listeners will not put up with weaker signals, and most listeners don't care to listen to stations outside their community. People will not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large market so AM is pretty much Dead. I DID NOT SAY THAT. I said that, in your ZIP Code, there are only 3 stations capable (depending on programming) of generating significaant ratings (which means listening) because they have a decent enough signal to be listened to. AM is dying, and that is because nearly nobody under 45 listens because the sound sucks and there are so few listenable stations. In a few years, when all AM listening is over 55 in age, there will be no revenue in the rated metros, and the viable format will move to FM and that will be it except for stations that are kept on the air with infomercials, brokered programming and religious teaching formats. I try to tell him that I live in the northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so. Ventura is not even a top 100 market. It is hardly "largest" in any sense. You may go out of your way to find weaker AMs. 99.9999% of the population does not. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
"AM-HDisDead" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 16, 11:37?am, D Peter Maus wrote: That is exaclty what AM-HD will do - drive listeners away, in-droves, to Satellite and Internet Radio, or just to abandon radio altogether. What a joke - a few tens-of-thousands of HD Radio listeners, versus alienating many more times analog listeners, due to AM-HD hash. HD/ IBOC will just accelerate the death of terrestrial radio. I tuned to our three AM-HD stations in Maryland, and just above and below the main analog channel, were the sounds of a large waterfall - those wonderful digital saddle-bags ! You still miss the point. AM listening is now less than 20% of all radio listening, and less than 10% of listening under age 45; it's around 5% under 35. Night AM listening is only about 12% of all listening, and nearly all is over 55. In rated metros, stations can not sell the 55+ audience to advertisers. So stations with 55+ audiences are already doomed in the very short term. AM is doomed in the long term. Anything that might improve AM's viability is worth trying. No service will be lost, as AM is declining very fast anyway; to do nothing is to hasten the demise of AM, and that serves nobody. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
"AM-HDisDead" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 16, 11:41?am, "David Eduardo" wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... The real problem is that you, Edweenie, don't realize that you are posting in what is ostensibly a *hobby* news group, where folks actually *do* listen to things that fall outside of the parameters of your little fantasy world. The point is that the radio industry, both in the US and worldwide, is changing. In the case of AM, it is trying to save itself... a task that may not even be possible. DXers generally, in the past, have followed with interest, the industry that produces the signals that are listened too. HD is one of the changes that the industry has determined will help in the future, and it is definitely here. Next week, the FCC has the IBOC/HD issue on its agenda. They are expected to remove the "experimental" STA for HD and authorize the system, and most trade magazines and such believe night HD will also be authorized on the theory of greatest good for the greatest number of people. So it is obviously a hobby concern. And your R8B does not have HD! What a joke - no one is listening in HD. This will just accelerate the death of AM. Even the most skeptical projects over 10 million HD radios by 2010... 2 1/2 years from now. with decreasing prices, others see 15 to 2o million by that time. Satellite has 14 million, and is almost in no-growth... so this is a nice opportunity for free terrestrial radio. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
He is like a whiney old widow woman,always has to get the last word in.
cuhulin |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
Continuing with the info-mercial, David Frackelton Gleason, who poses as 'Eduardo', and whose employer, Univision, has an interest in HD/IBOC, wrote: "AM-HDisDead" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 16, 11:37?am, D Peter Maus wrote: That is exaclty what AM-HD will do - drive listeners away, in-droves, to Satellite and Internet Radio, or just to abandon radio altogether. What a joke - a few tens-of-thousands of HD Radio listeners, versus alienating many more times analog listeners, due to AM-HD hash. HD/ IBOC will just accelerate the death of terrestrial radio. I tuned to our three AM-HD stations in Maryland, and just above and below the main analog channel, were the sounds of a large waterfall - those wonderful digital saddle-bags ! You still miss the point. AM listening is now less than 20% of all radio listening, and less than 10% of listening under age 45; it's around 5% under 35. Night AM listening is only about 12% of all listening, and nearly all is over 55. In rated metros, stations can not sell the 55+ audience to advertisers. So stations with 55+ audiences are already doomed in the very short term. AM is doomed in the long term. Anything that might improve AM's viability is worth trying. No service will be lost, as AM is declining very fast anyway; to do nothing is to hasten the demise of AM, and that serves nobody. Yada, yada, yada. The info-mercial goes on, and on, and on. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
I want to find out who the new Sweet Potato Queen is.
www.sweetpotatoqueens.com (Catchin' up) probally some woman who came in that big a.. bus. cuhulin |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
-The CBC has decided to add FM transmitters to serve six prairie
cities to improve signals and audience. However, the big 50k AM transmitters will continue simulcasting to provide service to the many small-town and rural communities . Only AM has the reach to cover the large areas involved. If radio in Canada was based on the Eduardo maximum-profit model, the big AM's would shut down becuse the fringe listeners would not meet minimum demographics and therefore would be commercially worthless. But the CBC's mandate is to provide service to all Canadians, not just the most profitable. As long as US broadcasting is maximum- profit, minimum cost (content) these squabbles will go on. The fight for share of a shrinking pie is not pretty. The question is: how well have the radio stations used public airwaves to provide service to listeners? How many plays, concerts, classical music, debates, lectures, 50's and 60's tunes, have you heard on AM? I have heard all these on the CBC in the last week. By ruthlessly programming to the choice demographic and eliminating any other program material US broacasting has achieved Newton Minow's "vast wasteland" and you have to search for an interesting program. By the way, when the CBC switched to FM in Toronto and Ottawa, it increased its audience, which had been dropping. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
There are a lot of big wide open areas in parts of Canada,some areas
where few people live.hd ibquity just won't cut it for those kinds of areas/places.AM Radio does. cuhulin |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: I know what the problem is... you are stubborn and do not understand that few listeners are even interested in non-local stations, and when combined with signals that are not reliable day and nigh and which can be subject to interference, they don't listen to them. Along with not being interested in where your assumptions are incorrect you don't seem to be as interested in reality as you are your own special view of it. I am making no assumptions, so such assumptions can not be incorrect. The facts are very simple. You are making assumptions of signal strength levels being good enough so noise is not an issue. 1. The FCC provides data by which the field strength of any station can be caluculated in any location. This data and commercial software are so accurate, the FCC is now considering the actual readings of field strength on radials of each directional station or for non-DA proofs. 2. Arbitron provides down to the ZIP Code level information on every station listened to for at least 5 minutes in a week in each ZIP code. 3. Looking at signal strength vs. listening shows that metro area stations without a consistent, 10 mv/m or better day and night signal do not get any significant listening. Stations in the high end of the 5 mv/m to 10 mv/m will get occasional mentions, but not enough to "make the book" and be statistically significant. There are far more than 3 stations that are local to me. "Local" is not a technical term in this context. This discussion is about how "large" a signal has to be to register any listening, and in AM, that level in metro areas is 10 mv/m or above Then take a look at the numbers I provided and you can see that they all represent strong signals. Must be a problem with your contour maps. One station that is "local" to me in LA is KBLA... 50 kw at 1580. But I live to the east of its site, and can barely hear it daytime and not at all at night... yet the towers are less than 10 miles from me. What has that have to do with the signal strength of stations in my area? There are over a dozen. You know this but will not acknowledge it. These local stations put in strong signals so noise is not an issue. There is no problem picking them up. You don't have to "try" for them. If they don't have 10 mv/m in your ZIP, nobody listens, per Arbitron. Well then Arbitron is wrong then or you are misinterpreting them. In most markets, you can pretty accurately trace the 10 mv/m contour of a station via plotting diaries Well then it does not correlate to reception. Stations all over the US realize this, and generally do their audience promotion inside the contour under the theory that elsewhere there is no return on the investment. Your statement that nobody has more than 3 strong signal stations is a complete fabrication. I did not say that. I said there are only 3 signals over 10 mv/m at your location. I did say that few markets have more than one or two viable AM stations that cover day and night the metro. Some have none, like ashington, DC and Ventura, others like LA and SF have a few more. The fact that you will not acknowledge it when called on your bad assumptions shows that you will continue to post articles with fabricated information to the news group. Sorted by distance from my location. Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm KVEN 1450 AM 3.4 Ventura, CA Oldies -29 KKZZ 1590 AM 6.2 Ventura, CA Talk -32 KOXR 910 AM 9.3 Oxnard, CA Spanish -40 KUNX 1400 AM 11.6 Santa Paula, CA Spanish -65 KVTA 1520 AM 12.3 Port Hueneme, CA Talk -39 KZSB 1290 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA News -55 KIST 1340 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Talk -55 KBKO 1490 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55 KZER 1250 AM 31.5 Santa Barbara, CA Spanish -56 KIRN 670 AM 32.8 Simi Valley, CA Ethnic -66 KSPN 710 AM 50.9 Los Angeles, CA Sports -60 KNX 1070 AM 61.5 Los Angeles, CA News -54 KRLA 870 AM 61.7 Glendale, CA News/Talk -65 KFI 640 AM 78.4 Los Angeles, CA Talk -68 KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69 Sorted by daytime signal strength. Call Freq Dist. in miles City Format dBm KVEN 1450 AM 3.4 Ventura, CA Oldies -29 KKZZ 1590 AM 6.2 Ventura, CA Talk -32 KVTA 1520 AM 12.3 Port Hueneme, CA Talk -39 KOXR 910 AM 9.3 Oxnard, CA Spanish -40 KNX 1070 AM 61.5 Los Angeles, CA News -54 KZSB 1290 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA News -55 KIST 1340 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Talk -55 KBKO 1490 AM 24.4 Santa Barbara, CA Simulcast of KTMS 990 -55 KZER 1250 AM 31.5 Santa Barbara, CA Spanish -56 KSPN 710 AM 50.9 Los Angeles, CA Sports -60 KUNX 1400 AM 11.6 Santa Paula, CA Spanish -65 KRLA 870 AM 61.7 Glendale, CA News/Talk -65 KIRN 670 AM 32.8 Simi Valley, CA Ethnic -66 KFI 640 AM 78.4 Los Angeles, CA Talk -68 KOGO 600 AM 168 San Diego, CA Talk -69 You can't really think anyone would use S-meter readings in place of calculated contours or field strength readings with a calibrated, type approved FIM, can you? Why not? The meter I used on my receiver is calibrated. What do you think a field strength meter is anyway? The point of the numbers above is the signal levels are strong on all these stations so noise is not an issue. Of all these stations, only 3 get significant ratings in your ZIP code.. Must be a different reason other than signal strength, which is very good according to empirical evidence, which means that your data is faulty or assumptions made from that data are incorrect. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And why this exchange can get as heated as it does. Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none' is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero. And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to a sales curve. No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers. Snip David is making that assumption based on signal strength. I am not making assumptions, as I said before. I am stating fact: stations on AM in metro areas do not get listening of a statistically significant nature outside the 10 mv/m contour. Listeners will not put up with weaker signals, and most listeners don't care to listen to stations outside their community. People will not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large market so AM is pretty much Dead. I DID NOT SAY THAT. I said that, in your ZIP Code, there are only 3 stations capable (depending on programming) of generating significaant ratings (which means listening) because they have a decent enough signal to be listened to. AM is dying, and that is because nearly nobody under 45 listens because the sound sucks and there are so few listenable stations. In a few years, when all AM listening is over 55 in age, there will be no revenue in the rated metros, and the viable format will move to FM and that will be it except for stations that are kept on the air with infomercials, brokered programming and religious teaching formats. I try to tell him that I live in the northern part of one of the largest markets with many more choices and he tells me according to some misconstrued data it is no so. Ventura is not even a top 100 market. It is hardly "largest" in any sense. Its in the LA market area. People commute from Ventura to work every work day. I buy stuff in the LA and many people in Ventura do the same. You may go out of your way to find weaker AMs. 99.9999% of the population does not. I didn't go out of my way, just tune the radio to the frequency, stations I listed are strong with no noise on a portable radio inside the house. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , It's been proven in every market Arbitron measures... in urban zones, there is essentially no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. Pardon me for butting into this love-fest, but let's try to establish an understanding of what really are the objections here. And why this exchange can get as heated as it does. Start with the presentation of Dismissal. David, 'essentially none' is not the same as 'none.' Just as statistical zero is not zero. And what's been bandied about here, is the relative merits of simply dismissing those numbers which don't fit a profile of behaviour mated to a sales curve. No one on either side of this discussion has suggested that 1) there is zero listening outside the contours, nor that 2) what listening does exist outside the contours is in mainstream numbers. Snip David is making that assumption based on signal strength. I am not making assumptions, as I said before. I am stating fact: stations on AM in metro areas do not get listening of a statistically significant nature outside the 10 mv/m contour. Listeners will not put up with weaker signals, and most listeners don't care to listen to stations outside their community. People will not tune into weak signals and there are no more than 3 in a large market so AM is pretty much Dead. I DID NOT SAY THAT. I said that, in your ZIP Code, there are only 3 stations capable (depending on programming) of generating significaant ratings (which means listening) because they have a decent enough signal to be listened to. You are one funny guy. I don't see how your re-statement is different from my summary of your previous post. AM is dying, and that is because nearly nobody under 45 listens because the sound sucks and there are so few listenable stations. Which is BS. In a few years, when all AM listening is over 55 in age, there will be no revenue in the rated metros, and the viable format will move to FM and that will be it except for stations that are kept on the air with infomercials, brokered programming and religious teaching formats. I don't have a crystal ball like you have. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "AM-HDisDead" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 16, 11:41?am, "David Eduardo" wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... The real problem is that you, Edweenie, don't realize that you are posting in what is ostensibly a *hobby* news group, where folks actually *do* listen to things that fall outside of the parameters of your little fantasy world. The point is that the radio industry, both in the US and worldwide, is changing. In the case of AM, it is trying to save itself... a task that may not even be possible. DXers generally, in the past, have followed with interest, the industry that produces the signals that are listened too. HD is one of the changes that the industry has determined will help in the future, and it is definitely here. Next week, the FCC has the IBOC/HD issue on its agenda. They are expected to remove the "experimental" STA for HD and authorize the system, and most trade magazines and such believe night HD will also be authorized on the theory of greatest good for the greatest number of people. So it is obviously a hobby concern. And your R8B does not have HD! What a joke - no one is listening in HD. This will just accelerate the death of AM. Even the most skeptical projects over 10 million HD radios by 2010... 2 1/2 years from now. with decreasing prices, others see 15 to 2o million by that time. Satellite has 14 million, and is almost in no-growth... so this is a nice opportunity for free terrestrial radio. I gotta get me one of those crystal balls like the one you use. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
"ve3..." wrote in message ups.com... -The CBC has decided to add FM transmitters to serve six prairie cities to improve signals and audience. However, the big 50k AM transmitters will continue simulcasting to provide service to the many small-town and rural communities . Only AM has the reach to cover the large areas involved. If radio in Canada was based on the Eduardo maximum-profit model, the big AM's would shut down becuse the fringe listeners would not meet minimum demographics and therefore would be commercially worthless. The CBC has closed over half of its AMs, ranging form Nova Scotia to B.C. Among the major ones are the 50 kw stations in Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal, where the CBC is only on FM today. In general, in Canada there are about half the AMs there wedre in 1980. Canada has a stated policy of only keeping AMs in the larger metros to serve a function of providing niche or minority services not sustainable or available on FM. |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
www.devilfinder.com Crystal Balls
What are those thingys called? Sort of like a fancy outdoors stand with big silver and or gold balls sitting on top of them.I used to see them around here years ago.Gazing balls,or something like that.They are intended for yard decorations. cuhulin |
why not, Why Not. WHY NOT ! - Leave AM Radio Alone
Los Angeles (the City of Angels) is a great big City.Look around in your
phone book,you will probally find a store that sells Crystal Balls. cuhulin |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXers Rejoice !
On Mar 17, 6:13 am, David wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:01:21 -0700, "David Eduardo" wrote: "RHF" wrote in message roups.com... DE So in your world the 'little guy' [The Minority of Radio Listeners] HAS NO RIGHTS [.] If AM does not survive (it IS dead for two generations of Americans) then it won't matter much if you can't hear every AM on the dial... there won't be any left. Classical Liberal Thinking from the Champeon of Spanish Language {Minority} Broadcasting. I am probably more conservative politically than Genghis Kahn. Funny how the niche programmers seem to do OK. If AM ends up like shortwave (patriots and religious broadcasters) so be it. Do not clutter up the airwaves with the hideous digital noise floor. It really makes a mess out of everything.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - David, Better Ten or a Hundred or a Thousand Individual Voices to be heard on the AM/MW Radio -then- 500 AM/MW Radio Stations all rebroadcasting Coast-to-Coast AM from 10 PM until 5 AM each Night. Bring On the Independeant 100 Patriot Voices ! - - - Each Saying Something Different and New. Bring On the Independent 100 Religious Voices ! - - - Each Saying Something Different and New. Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! i listen to the radio because . . . it's interesting and enjoyable ~ RHF |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXers Rejoice !
"RHF" wrote in message oups.com... Better Ten or a Hundred or a Thousand Individual Voices to be heard on the AM/MW Radio -then- 500 AM/MW Radio Stations all rebroadcasting Coast-to-Coast AM from 10 PM until 5 AM each Night. You seem unaware of the origin of overnight broadcasting. It has nothing to do with listening, the listener or making money. When equipment was much less reliable, in the late 50's and 60's, many failures came at sign-on, right ahead of the most profitable time of the day for radio. It did not take much for owners and managers to decide that if the station was not turned off, the failures at the time they were turned back on would be far fewer, and certainly more at random. So staitons went on "All Night" schedules. Altholugh I know of a few cases of momentarily profitable overnight shows, in general it is nearly impossible to generate any revenue overnights. Today, equipment is better. But since everyone who can is 24/7, nobody wants to be the first to not do it. Add to that the more irregular work hours of Americans, and you have a reason to be on at 5 AM or even 4 AM in many cities... at that point, why sign off? The former Art Bell show is a nice, and free, way to fill up the overnght hours. And since nearly nobody listens to that show on skywave, the need for many hundreds of affiliates is real. If those stations did not have Coast to Coast, they would be automated playing music. Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! There is no way to pay for it. There is no ad revenue. |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXersR...
Yeah,it p...es me off.Tuning around on the dial and ever fifth station
is a C to C KOOK FREAK show.I tell y'all what,late nights,all of them KOOKS and FREAKS come out of the woods. fmomoon at alt.gossip.celebrities news group sig says, War doesn't determine who is right,it determines who is left. cuhulin |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXers Rejoice !
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: "RHF" wrote in message oups.com... Better Ten or a Hundred or a Thousand Individual Voices to be heard on the AM/MW Radio -then- 500 AM/MW Radio Stations all rebroadcasting Coast-to-Coast AM from 10 PM until 5 AM each Night. You seem unaware of the origin of overnight broadcasting. It has nothing to do with listening, the listener or making money. Yeah, so that's why there is no advertising at night on AM. Thanks for clearing that up. When equipment was much less reliable, in the late 50's and 60's, many failures came at sign-on, right ahead of the most profitable time of the day for radio. It did not take much for owners and managers to decide that if the station was not turned off, the failures at the time they were turned back on would be far fewer, and certainly more at random. So staitons went on "All Night" schedules. Altholugh I know of a few cases of momentarily profitable overnight shows, in general it is nearly impossible to generate any revenue overnights. Most radio station owners are intent on losing money? Now I understand. Today, equipment is better. Yeah, but we need IBOC don't we. But since everyone who can is 24/7, nobody wants to be the first to not do it. Add to that the more irregular work hours of Americans, and you have a reason to be on at 5 AM or even 4 AM in many cities... at that point, why sign off? You don't make any sense so why should anyone else. The former Art Bell show is a nice, and free, way to fill up the overnght hours. Art Bell works for free. What a great humanitarian. And since nearly nobody listens to that show on skywave, the need for many hundreds of affiliates is real. Oh yeah baby, all those millions of nobodies. If those stations did not have Coast to Coast, they would be automated playing music. And playing your IBOC infomercials but since we have Coast to Coast we will just have to read your infomercials here. Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! There is no way to pay for it. There is no ad revenue. Hey David, got that spare $750K? It is very little money you know so I know you will not miss it. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXersRejoice !
David Eduardo wrote:
The former Art Bell show is a nice, and free, way to fill up the overnght hours. And since nearly nobody listens to that show on skywave, the need for many hundreds of affiliates is real. If those stations did not have Coast to Coast, they would be automated playing music. I was one of those 'nearly nobodys' that occasionally listened to Bell on a distant station via skywave because their wasn't a local one for me. He was on a 50-Kw regional clear channel station about 50-miles from me but I can no longer rely on that station for good nighttime reception because of the co-channel (skywave) interference which started a few years ago. We both know why that happened. |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXers Rejoice !
In article SiJLh.9979$dG.1723@trndny08, HFguy
wrote: David Eduardo wrote: The former Art Bell show is a nice, and free, way to fill up the overnght hours. And since nearly nobody listens to that show on skywave, the need for many hundreds of affiliates is real. If those stations did not have Coast to Coast, they would be automated playing music. I was one of those 'nearly nobodys' that occasionally listened to Bell on a distant station via skywave because their wasn't a local one for me. He was on a 50-Kw regional clear channel station about 50-miles from me but I can no longer rely on that station for good nighttime reception because of the co-channel (skywave) interference which started a few years ago. We both know why that happened. Now we just have to find out why "David" has happened. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXers Rejoice !
"HFguy" wrote in message news:SiJLh.9979$dG.1723@trndny08... David Eduardo wrote: The former Art Bell show is a nice, and free, way to fill up the overnght hours. And since nearly nobody listens to that show on skywave, the need for many hundreds of affiliates is real. If those stations did not have Coast to Coast, they would be automated playing music. I was one of those 'nearly nobodys' that occasionally listened to Bell on a distant station via skywave because their wasn't a local one for me. He was on a 50-Kw regional clear channel station about 50-miles from me but I can no longer rely on that station for good nighttime reception because of the co-channel (skywave) interference which started a few years ago. We both know why that happened. Maybe you know, but I have no idea unless you are feeling like sharing. |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXersR...
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Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXers Rejoice !
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: You seem unaware of the origin of overnight broadcasting. It has nothing to do with listening, the listener or making money. Yeah, so that's why there is no advertising at night on AM. Thanks for clearing that up. Actually, you willhear lots of ads. In the syndicated shows, the syndicator gets the revenue and the staiton gets the show for free. In local staitons, the ads are bonus spots, added in to make a deal more appealing. It is enormously rare to have an actual cash buy for post-Midnight spots. They are all value added or barter. Altholugh I know of a few cases of momentarily profitable overnight shows, in general it is nearly impossible to generate any revenue overnights. Most radio station owners are intent on losing money? Now I understand. No, they are intent on being on the air when morning drive starts. The few dollars that overnight broadcasting costs is vastly less than having outages in morning drive that cost money and hurt ratings. We don't buy insurance because we want to have a fire, do we? Overnight broadcasting is a form of insurance. But since everyone who can is 24/7, nobody wants to be the first to not do it. Add to that the more irregular work hours of Americans, and you have a reason to be on at 5 AM or even 4 AM in many cities... at that point, why sign off? You don't make any sense so why should anyone else. Any station operator who has had a couple of experiences of being off at 7 AM in the middle of morning drive will not let it happen again. Among the causes of sign on problems are the stress of applying high voltage to more conventional transmitters, the possibilities of having a critter short the system anywhere (they climb into ATU's, phasors, Transmitters, power supplies, etc., at night for warmth and get fried at sign-on, taking the gear with them... The former Art Bell show is a nice, and free, way to fill up the overnght hours. Art Bell works for free. What a great humanitarian. The show is free to stations. All they have to do is carry the syndicator's commercials... there is no compensation for them to the stations, only the network. And since nearly nobody listens to that show on skywave, the need for many hundreds of affiliates is real. Oh yeah baby, all those millions of nobodies. The main audience is in areas where there is a good groundwave signal on AM. I doubt there are more than a few thousand, nationally, listening to skywave. And the whole show does not have "millions of listeners." Hey David, got that spare $750K? It is very little money you know so I know you will not miss it. You still don't seem to get that this is a tiny amount for most corporations.... it is the gross sales for 6 months of one single average McDonalds. |
Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! - DXers Rejoice !
On 19 Mar 2007 19:49:11 -0700, "RHF"
wrote: David, Better Ten or a Hundred or a Thousand Individual Voices to be heard on the AM/MW Radio -then- 500 AM/MW Radio Stations all rebroadcasting Coast-to-Coast AM from 10 PM until 5 AM each Night. Bring On the Independeant 100 Patriot Voices ! - - - Each Saying Something Different and New. Bring On the Independent 100 Religious Voices ! - - - Each Saying Something Different and New. Let's Make Late Night AM/MW Radio Interesting Again ! i listen to the radio because . . . it's interesting and enjoyable ~ RHF KOA and KGO have original programming overnight. |
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