Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

Disadvantages

NICAM
-- J.17 Emphasis curve
-- 32 kHz sample rate
-- 14 bits vs 16 bits of modern systems; requires resampling for 16 bit
origin material

DVB (aka AAC)
-- Codec complexity, coding time
-- Ogg Vorbis may have a better FFT

DAB (Musicam)
-- Not as efficient as AAC
-- FFT and filterbank perhaps too simple
-- Does not support 24 bit audio, only 16 bits

Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ... NICAM is near
perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

On 10 Jul, 02:11, "Max Power" wrote:
Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

Disadvantages

NICAM
-- J.17 Emphasis curve
-- 32 kHz sample rate
-- 14 bits vs 16 bits of modern systems; requires resampling for 16 bit
origin material
Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ... NICAM is near
perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

14 bits and 32Khz near perfect? Even CD players managed 16 bits 44.1
Khz in the mid 80s. You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off into
wax cylinder audio mode (though you won't here it on most TVs , they
mute or switch to the FM sound as soon as the bitstream goes wonky)

B2003

Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 02:11, "Max Power" wrote:
Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

Disadvantages

NICAM
-- J.17 Emphasis curve
-- 32 kHz sample rate
-- 14 bits vs 16 bits of modern systems; requires resampling for 16
bit origin material
Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ... NICAM
is near perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

14 bits and 32Khz near perfect? Even CD players managed 16 bits 44.1
Khz in the mid 80s. You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off into
wax cylinder audio mode (though you won't here it on most TVs , they
mute or switch to the FM sound as soon as the bitstream goes wonky)


MP2 has no error correction either, you dummy, they add the error correction
prior to transmission.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

On 10 Jul, 15:21, "DAB sounds worse than FM" dab.is@dead wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 02:11, "Max Power" wrote:
Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

Disadvantages

NICAM
-- J.17 Emphasis curve
-- 32 kHz sample rate
-- 14 bits vs 16 bits of modern systems; requires resampling for 16
bit origin material
Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ... NICAM
is near perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

14 bits and 32Khz near perfect? Even CD players managed 16 bits 44.1
Khz in the mid 80s. You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off into
wax cylinder audio mode (though you won't here it on most TVs , they
mute or switch to the FM sound as soon as the bitstream goes wonky)

MP2 has no error correction either, you dummy, they add the error correction
prior to transmission.

I was refering to the whole transmission , not just the codec.

B2003

In article . com,
Boltar writes
On 10 Jul, 02:11, "Max Power" wrote:
Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

Disadvantages

NICAM
-- J.17 Emphasis curve
-- 32 kHz sample rate
-- 14 bits vs 16 bits of modern systems; requires resampling for 16 bit
origin material
Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ... NICAM is near
perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

14 bits and 32Khz near perfect? Even CD players managed 16 bits 44.1
Khz in the mid 80s. You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off into
wax cylinder audio mode (though you won't here it on most TVs , they
mute or switch to the FM sound as soon as the bitstream goes wonky)

B2003



Well it was designed for distribution and for that its very good and
doesn't do at all badly for domestic TV .. that reception path is
usually a good one...
--
Tony Sayer

Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 15:21, "DAB sounds worse than FM" dab.is@dead wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 02:11, "Max Power" wrote:
Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

Disadvantages

NICAM
-- J.17 Emphasis curve
-- 32 kHz sample rate
-- 14 bits vs 16 bits of modern systems; requires resampling for 16
bit origin material
Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ...
NICAM is near perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

14 bits and 32Khz near perfect? Even CD players managed 16 bits 44.1
Khz in the mid 80s. You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off
into wax cylinder audio mode (though you won't here it on most TVs
, they mute or switch to the FM sound as soon as the bitstream goes
wonky)

MP2 has no error correction either, you dummy, they add the error
correction prior to transmission.

I was refering to the whole transmission , not just the codec.


What you said he

"You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off into
wax cylinder audio mode"

suggests that you were trying to say that NICAM having "virtually sod all
error correction" means, for example, that it would be worse than DAB, which
doesn't make sense because MP2, MP3, AAC etc etc don't have any error
correction either, it's added prior to transmission.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

On Jul 10, 11:11 am, "Max Power" wrote:
Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

DVB (aka AAC)
-- Codec complexity, coding time
-- Ogg Vorbis may have a better FFT

DAB (Musicam)
-- Not as efficient as AAC
-- FFT and filterbank perhaps too simple
-- Does not support 24 bit audio, only 16 bits

Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ... NICAM is near
perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

DAB and DVB both use the MPEG1 level 2 compression (Musicam)

Only DAB+ uses AAC+

On 10 Jul, 23:20, "DAB sounds closer to AM" dab.is@dead wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 15:21, "DAB sounds worse than FM" dab.is@dead wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 02:11, "Max Power" wrote:
Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

Disadvantages

NICAM
-- J.17 Emphasis curve
-- 32 kHz sample rate
-- 14 bits vs 16 bits of modern systems; requires resampling for 16
bit origin material
Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ...
NICAM is near perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

14 bits and 32Khz near perfect? Even CD players managed 16 bits 44.1
Khz in the mid 80s. You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off
into wax cylinder audio mode (though you won't here it on most TVs
, they mute or switch to the FM sound as soon as the bitstream goes
wonky)

MP2 has no error correction either, you dummy, they add the error
correction prior to transmission.

I was refering to the whole transmission , not just the codec.

What you said he

"You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off into
wax cylinder audio mode"

suggests that you were trying to say that NICAM having "virtually sod all
error correction" means, for example, that it would be worse than DAB, which
doesn't make sense because MP2, MP3, AAC etc etc don't have any error
correction either, it's added prior to transmission.

Stop splitting hairs, everyone generally just refers to it as NICAM
and not the-NICAM-code-in-digital-TV-sound.

B2003

Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 23:20, "DAB sounds closer to AM" dab.is@dead wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 15:21, "DAB sounds worse than FM" dab.is@dead wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On 10 Jul, 02:11, "Max Power" wrote:
Pros and cons of NICAM vs DVB vs DAB (original design)

Disadvantages

NICAM
-- J.17 Emphasis curve
-- 32 kHz sample rate
-- 14 bits vs 16 bits of modern systems; requires resampling for
16 bit origin material
Still, if one were designing a DAB system in the mid-1980s ...
NICAM is near perfect.
-- IF AND ONLY IF "RDS" datastream is added

14 bits and 32Khz near perfect? Even CD players managed 16 bits
44.1 Khz in the mid 80s. You're also forgetting that NICAM has
virtually sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal
and its off into wax cylinder audio mode (though you won't here
it on most TVs , they mute or switch to the FM sound as soon as
the bitstream goes wonky)

MP2 has no error correction either, you dummy, they add the error
correction prior to transmission.

I was refering to the whole transmission , not just the codec.

What you said he

"You're also forgetting that NICAM has virtually
sod all error correction. The slightest dodgy signal and its off into
wax cylinder audio mode"

suggests that you were trying to say that NICAM having "virtually
sod all error correction" means, for example, that it would be worse
than DAB, which doesn't make sense because MP2, MP3, AAC etc etc
don't have any error correction either, it's added prior to
transmission.

Stop splitting hairs, everyone generally just refers to it as NICAM
and not the-NICAM-code-in-digital-TV-sound.


I'm not splitting any hairs. You implied that because NICAM doesn't have
"built-in" error correction then it would be unusable as a digital radio
format. It would be unusable as a digital radio format due to its bandwidth,
but not because it lacks error correction, because the other codecs don't
have that either.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

On 11 Jul, 10:06, "DAB sounds closer to AM" dab.is@dead wrote:
I'm not splitting any hairs. You implied that because NICAM doesn't have
"built-in" error correction then it would be unusable as a digital radio
format. It would be unusable as a digital radio format due to its bandwidth,
but not because it lacks error correction, because the other codecs don't
have that either.

I was assuming he meant as-is. Ie same transmission system, albeit
different frequency, as well as same codec. In which case it would be
unsuitable.

B2003