(OT) : Example of the Anti-Gun Liberal Media {News} Hysteria
 

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:


So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff, with
access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and probably the
Western world, and the best he can come up with is ..."Gee, I have
this gut feeling". :-(


D Peter Maus wrote:

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a result
of a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they don't
develop a 'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on patrol. Ask
anyone who's served in law enforcement if they've not developed a gut
feeling about a suspect based on very slightly discernable
behaviours. Ask anyone who's ever worked in Customs if a gut feeling
hasn't led to an arrest and confiscation of contraband.

Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs nor
has he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a political
appointee, not someone with field experience or magical powers.

D Peter Maus wrote:

And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending matters?

You're more cynical than I thought.

Jeez, you keep missing the point... cynical has nothing to do with it. I
never said a desk bound judge couldn't have a "gut feeling". (But the
point being he IS a desk man and a political appointee and has NOT had
any day-to-day front line intelligence experience).

For the final time, my point IS that with all the BILLIONS spent on
homeland security and with him having access to EVERY law enforcement
agency in the country, from big to little and access to some Western
European agencies also, I think he should have a least a -shred- of real
evidence from at least one of these outfits before he goes on national
TV and gets everybody all geeked up over his gut.

The American people deserve better than a "gut feeling" for the billions
spent. It's just more fear mongering to get the sheep to think we need
the politicians to "save" us...

(OT) : Example of the Anti-Gun Liberal Media {News} Hysteria
 

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:


So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff, with
access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and probably the
Western world, and the best he can come up with is ..."Gee, I have
this gut feeling". :-(


D Peter Maus wrote:

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a result
of a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they don't
develop a 'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on patrol.
Ask anyone who's served in law enforcement if they've not developed
a gut feeling about a suspect based on very slightly discernable
behaviours. Ask anyone who's ever worked in Customs if a gut feeling
hasn't led to an arrest and confiscation of contraband.

Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs nor
has he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a
political appointee, not someone with field experience or magical
powers.

D Peter Maus wrote:

And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending
matters?

You're more cynical than I thought.

Jeez, you keep missing the point... cynical has nothing to do with it. I
never said a desk bound judge couldn't have a "gut feeling". (But the
point being he IS a desk man and a political appointee and has NOT had
any day-to-day front line intelligence experience).

For the final time, my point IS that with all the BILLIONS spent on
homeland security and with him having access to EVERY law enforcement
agency in the country, from big to little and access to some Western
European agencies also, I think he should have a least a -shred- of real
evidence from at least one of these outfits before he goes on national
TV and gets everybody all geeked up over his gut.

The American people deserve better than a "gut feeling" for the billions
spent. It's just more fear mongering to get the sheep to think we need
the politicians to "save" us...



No, Sweetheart, in your zeal to find something by which to be
offended, you've missed the point entirely....

The 'gut feeling' is where it starts. The research, the intel, and
the gathering of evidence follows.

Which is precisely what Chertoff was telling you.

(OT) : Example of the Anti-Human dxAceholism
 

On Aug 13, 10:05 pm, dxAce wrote:
Cato wrote:
On Aug 13, 9:14 pm, dxAce wrote:
m II wrote:
dxAce wrote:

RHF wrote:

On Aug 13, 7:27 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
wrote:
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.
And yet,.....
Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.
But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.
There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.
How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!
It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.
Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.
And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?
That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.
Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.
Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.
And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.
AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.
I"m partial to Walthers, myself.
I like Para Ordance myself.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/main.html

Out of the box one gun was good but another needed a little polish on
the trigger parts for a smooth pull. They are a Canadian firm.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
OMG - Canadians Making Killer Hand Guns
Mike (M II) Say It Ain't So . . . ~ RHF

30+ million of the vermin just north of us.

Alcoholics Anonymous is meant for people like you. The Tribal Council of
the Miami Nation will also help. They hate to see the flock become
derelicts such as yourself, Supreme Commander.

Flock? Gimme a break. We're not dumbass Canucks, nor fake Hispanics.

Call Health CanaDuh tomorrow and get some help.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

**** dxAce! I take a break from here for a while and come back, and
your still calling us Canucks dumbass, and referring to Canada as
CanaDuh. What will make you turn off the insults??? You know what??
I'd like to sit down and have a few beers with you time. Maybe see
what makes you tick.

Dumbass Canucks just don't cut it. dxAce advice: hang in there and we'll drive the
*******s out.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Well, let's see. What was it Jefferson said before the War of
1812? Something about "taking Canada will be merely a matter of
marching."??
And then Mr. Madison became President, and found out that is was
a bit more difficult then that. Not one bit of Canadian soil was ever
permanently captured by the U.S.. Although they tried pretty hard.
I'll give 'em credit for effort.

Lot of battles around my area in the Niagara Peninsula. Battle
of Fort George, Battle of Fort Erie, Battle of Lundy's Lane, Battle of
Chippewa, Battle of Stoney Creek etc. They sure did give it a good try
over those few years.

Yep. The War of 1812 became known as "Mr. Madison's War." He was
still wearing knee breeches when pretty well everyone else had
switched to long pants.
Cato the Canuck

(OT) : Mike (M II) - The Can-A-Duh-Ian { Genesis } Ineptus Canadianus Simplianus
 

On Aug 13, 9:09 pm, m II wrote:
dxAce wrote:

RHF wrote:

On Aug 13, 7:27 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
wrote:
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.
And yet,.....
Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.
But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.
There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.
How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!
It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.
Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.
And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?
That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.
Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.
Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.
And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.
AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.
I"m partial to Walthers, myself.
I like Para Ordance myself.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/main.html

Out of the box one gun was good but another needed a little polish on
the trigger parts for a smooth pull. They are a Canadian firm.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
OMG - Canadians Making Killer Hand Guns
Mike (M II) Say It Ain't So . . . ~ RHF

30+ million of the vermin just north of us.

Alcoholics Anonymous is meant for people like you. The Tribal Council of
the Miami Nation will also help. They hate to see the flock become
derelicts such as yourself, Supreme Commander.

mike- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Mike (MII), -WRT-
? dxAcehole, Supreme Commander United Militias (S.C.U.M.) ?

Mike (M II) - This does not change the very simply fact
that you are a Can-A-Duh-Ian - A Countryless Person
Who Hates America -and- Does Not Love Canada
-and- Is a 'citizen' of Neither [.]

Can-A-Duh-Ian { genesis } ineptus canadianus simplianus

Mike (M II) - Learn To Love Canada and Being A Canadian
-and- Please Stop Hating The USA and Americans.

(OT) : Example of the Anti-Gun Liberal Media {News} Hysteria
 

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:


So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff,
with access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and
probably the Western world, and the best he can come up with is
..."Gee, I have this gut feeling". :-(


D Peter Maus wrote:

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a
result of a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they
don't develop a 'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on
patrol. Ask anyone who's served in law enforcement if they've not
developed a gut feeling about a suspect based on very slightly
discernable behaviours. Ask anyone who's ever worked in Customs if
a gut feeling hasn't led to an arrest and confiscation of contraband.

Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs
nor has he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a
political appointee, not someone with field experience or magical
powers.

D Peter Maus wrote:

And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending
matters?

You're more cynical than I thought.

Jeez, you keep missing the point... cynical has nothing to do with
it. I never said a desk bound judge couldn't have a "gut feeling".
(But the point being he IS a desk man and a political appointee and
has NOT had any day-to-day front line intelligence experience).

For the final time, my point IS that with all the BILLIONS spent on
homeland security and with him having access to EVERY law enforcement
agency in the country, from big to little and access to some Western
European agencies also, I think he should have a least a -shred- of
real evidence from at least one of these outfits before he goes on
national TV and gets everybody all geeked up over his gut.

The American people deserve better than a "gut feeling" for the
billions spent. It's just more fear mongering to get the sheep to
think we need the politicians to "save" us...

D Peter Maus wrote:

No, Sweetheart, in your zeal to find something by which to be
offended, you've missed the point entirely....

The 'gut feeling' is where it starts. The research, the intel, and
the gathering of evidence follows.


Wow! You really have been around the current administration too long.

You are saying to first come up with some vague, half-baked,
superstitious "gut feeling" and -then- try and find and/or "manufacture"
facts to fit.


Actually, no, I didn't say that, Strawman. But nice try. I'm capable
of speaking for myself. But if I ever require a paraphrast, you'll be
the first on my list to call.




What makes you think that Chertoff hasn't waded through hard intel
before he makes his appearance? You honestly think he calls a press
conference to make a hunch? Really...

How it works in government is how it works everywhere else. Some
information comes across someone's path that triggers a gut reaction.
Then they start looking for evidence one way or the other.

You'll notice that the level of alert doesn't remain at 'Orange' or
'Red.' It does drop down to 'Yellow' from time to time. Indicating that
after Chertoff's gut feeling, the hard intel doesn't support escalation.

I don't see the problem.

It's simply unrealistic, in law enforcement or security, to wait
until all possible evidence and intel has been evaluated to take an action.

History has proven that to be an unreliable strategy.

(OT) : Example of the Anti-Gun Liberal Media {News} Hysteria
 

On Aug 15, 8:02 am, D Peter Maus wrote:
Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff,
with access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and
probably the Western world, and the best he can come up with is
..."Gee, I have this gut feeling". :-(

D Peter Maus wrote:

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a
result of a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they
don't develop a 'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on
patrol. Ask anyone who's served in law enforcement if they've not
developed a gut feeling about a suspect based on very slightly
discernable behaviours. Ask anyone who's ever worked in Customs if
a gut feeling hasn't led to an arrest and confiscation of contraband.

Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs
nor has he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a
political appointee, not someone with field experience or magical
powers.

D Peter Maus wrote:

And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending
matters?

You're more cynical than I thought.

Jeez, you keep missing the point... cynical has nothing to do with
it. I never said a desk bound judge couldn't have a "gut feeling".
(But the point being he IS a desk man and a political appointee and
has NOT had any day-to-day front line intelligence experience).

For the final time, my point IS that with all the BILLIONS spent on
homeland security and with him having access to EVERY law enforcement
agency in the country, from big to little and access to some Western
European agencies also, I think he should have a least a -shred- of
real evidence from at least one of these outfits before he goes on
national TV and gets everybody all geeked up over his gut.

The American people deserve better than a "gut feeling" for the
billions spent. It's just more fear mongering to get the sheep to
think we need the politicians to "save" us...

D Peter Maus wrote:

No, Sweetheart, in your zeal to find something by which to be
offended, you've missed the point entirely....

The 'gut feeling' is where it starts. The research, the intel, and
the gathering of evidence follows.

Wow! You really have been around the current administration too long.

You are saying to first come up with some vague, half-baked,
superstitious "gut feeling" and -then- try and find and/or "manufacture"
facts to fit.

Actually, no, I didn't say that, Strawman. But nice try. I'm capable
of speaking for myself. But if I ever require a paraphrast, you'll be
the first on my list to call.

What makes you think that Chertoff hasn't waded through hard intel
before he makes his appearance? You honestly think he calls a press
conference to make a hunch? Really...

How it works in government is how it works everywhere else. Some
information comes across someone's path that triggers a gut reaction.
Then they start looking for evidence one way or the other.

You'll notice that the level of alert doesn't remain at 'Orange' or
'Red.' It does drop down to 'Yellow' from time to time. Indicating that
after Chertoff's gut feeling, the hard intel doesn't support escalation.

I don't see the problem.

It's simply unrealistic, in law enforcement or security, to wait
until all possible evidence and intel has been evaluated to take an action.

History has proven that to be an unreliable strategy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF

(OT) : Example of the Anti-Gun Liberal Media {News} Hysteria
 

RHF wrote:
On Aug 15, 8:02 am, D Peter Maus wrote:
Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:
Zeke Zzzppt wrote:
Zeke Zzzppt wrote:
So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff,
with access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and
probably the Western world, and the best he can come up with is
..."Gee, I have this gut feeling". :-(
D Peter Maus wrote:
Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a
result of a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they
don't develop a 'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on
patrol. Ask anyone who's served in law enforcement if they've not
developed a gut feeling about a suspect based on very slightly
discernable behaviours. Ask anyone who's ever worked in Customs if
a gut feeling hasn't led to an arrest and confiscation of contraband.
Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs
nor has he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a
political appointee, not someone with field experience or magical
powers.
D Peter Maus wrote:
And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending
matters?
You're more cynical than I thought.
Jeez, you keep missing the point... cynical has nothing to do with
it. I never said a desk bound judge couldn't have a "gut feeling".
(But the point being he IS a desk man and a political appointee and
has NOT had any day-to-day front line intelligence experience).
For the final time, my point IS that with all the BILLIONS spent on
homeland security and with him having access to EVERY law enforcement
agency in the country, from big to little and access to some Western
European agencies also, I think he should have a least a -shred- of
real evidence from at least one of these outfits before he goes on
national TV and gets everybody all geeked up over his gut.
The American people deserve better than a "gut feeling" for the
billions spent. It's just more fear mongering to get the sheep to
think we need the politicians to "save" us...
D Peter Maus wrote:
No, Sweetheart, in your zeal to find something by which to be
offended, you've missed the point entirely....
The 'gut feeling' is where it starts. The research, the intel, and
the gathering of evidence follows.
Wow! You really have been around the current administration too long.
You are saying to first come up with some vague, half-baked,
superstitious "gut feeling" and -then- try and find and/or "manufacture"
facts to fit.
Actually, no, I didn't say that, Strawman. But nice try. I'm capable
of speaking for myself. But if I ever require a paraphrast, you'll be
the first on my list to call.

What makes you think that Chertoff hasn't waded through hard intel
before he makes his appearance? You honestly think he calls a press
conference to make a hunch? Really...

How it works in government is how it works everywhere else. Some
information comes across someone's path that triggers a gut reaction.
Then they start looking for evidence one way or the other.

You'll notice that the level of alert doesn't remain at 'Orange' or
'Red.' It does drop down to 'Yellow' from time to time. Indicating that
after Chertoff's gut feeling, the hard intel doesn't support escalation.

I don't see the problem.

It's simply unrealistic, in law enforcement or security, to wait
until all possible evidence and intel has been evaluated to take an action.

History has proven that to be an unreliable strategy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF
.
.
. .


Well, yeah..and that's the other side of this....to be effective
there's so much that Chertoff simply cannot reveal.

What he says on camera fills a need to feed The Beast. It's not going
to be detailed or an accurate representation of processes.

(OT) : Example of the Anti-Gun Liberal Media {News} Hysteria
 

RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF


So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?





mike

(OT) : Example of the Anti-Gun Liberal Media {News} Hysteria
 

m II wrote:
RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF


So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?


The releasing of Valerie Plame's identity was by Richard Armitage,
who told it to Carl Novak. Confirmed by both Armitage and, once it was
out, Novak.

(OT) : Example of the Anti-Gun Liberal Media {News} Hysteria
 

D Peter Maus wrote:
m II wrote:
RHF wrote:

Better ot have a "Gut Feeling" : Then to reveal your 'sources'
and have them killed and and end-up without any sources. ~ RHF


So..the releasing of Valerie Plame's identity by the Bush Administration
was a BAD thing, right?


The releasing of Valerie Plame's identity was by Richard Armitage,
who told it to Carl Novak. Confirmed by both Armitage and, once it was
out, Novak.



I see..no connection at all to the Bush people...I was mistaken.

=========================================
"Richard Armitage, the current Deputy Defense Secretary, was another
Iran-Contra player in Unocal's employ. A former Navy SEAL, covert
operative in Laos, director with the Carlyle Group, Armitage is
allegedly deeply linked to terrorist and criminal networks in the Middle
East, and the new independent states of the former Soviet Union
(Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrghistan). Armitage was no stranger to
pipelines. As a member of the Burma/Myanmar Forum, a group that received
major funding from Unocal, Armitage was implicated in a lawsuit filed by
Burmese villagers who suffered human rights abuses during the
construction of a Unocal pipeline. (Halliburton, under Dick Cheney,
performed contract work on the same Burmese project.)"

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex...cheneyasia.htm
==========================================