Over the air HDTV: report
 

I recently plunked down $650 to be able to get HDTV. That includes
$290 Polaroid 19" LCD HDTV, $180 Samsung HDTV set top box, $70 for an
HDTV indoor antenna, and a whopping $65 for a special cable called an
HDMI cable (in addition to tax). I watched some OTA HDTV tonight, and
was disappointed. Many programs are not yet in full HDTV, including
ABC World News. This results in blank space on the sides. Some
commercials are in standard def, which on HDTV makes additional blank
space on the top and bottom, giving an effect of the signal "floating"
on a sea of darkness.

Furthermore, the signal was jerky, like streaming internet video, with
frequent pixelation. I even lost the signal for a few seconds, after
which I checked to see if there was a "trip wire" in the settings that
I could turn down or off. I once had a Panasonic TV that would give
you a blue screen if the signal got too low. That I could turn off;
this I can't. If the signal gets too low with the Samsung STB, it will
give you a "weak signal" screensaver.

Some stations are squeezing two signals on one HDTV channel. In two
cases, the second channel is a 24/7 weather channel with local weather
reports; in a third case the Fox station has a music video service
called "The Tube" on their second channel. The PBS station has an
amazing THREE stations on one channel! One is their regular channel,
one is a second channel that is usually available only on cable, and a
third is V-me, a PBS service for Latinos in Spanish. The Univision
(Spanish language) channel supposedly has an HDTV service, but there's
nothing there.

Some reports have said that HDTV from different cities is available in
Sacramento; my antenna won't pick it up. I suppose that if I had an
outdoor antenna on a pole I'd get it. Two channels, including a local
weather channel and the HDTV signal of a second tier station, are weak
and keep cutting out. If this is HDTV after years of government
pressure and millions spent, it's clearly not ready for prime time so
to speak. Hopefully by switch time they'll have ironed out the bugs.

My setup at first wouldn't pick up several stations with the slew
buttons; I had to download an HDTV channel list off the net, then
manually enter those stations into memory. Even more confusing, the
Samsung box lists channels not by their HDTV assignment, but by their
standard def channel, a hyphen, and a subchannel, ex. 6-1, 6-2, and
6-3 instead of Channel 53. You can USE the HD channel, but it switches
you right back to this hyphenated system on the display. I suppose
this is to ease the transition, and to allow subchannels, but you are
left not only with two channel numbers for one station but something
less than true HDTV, since stations force two or three services onto
one HD channel. I doubt that was the FCC's intention.

I suspect that when people realize that they're being forced into HDTV-
with beaucoup dollar amounts required to switch-only to get standard
def, they'll be mad. I'm an electronics geek anyway, so for me it was
worth it. But Joe Sixpack will spend this sort of outlay and find his
HD experience reduced so that his local TV station can bring him 24
hour weather or music videos, and start talking a blue streak.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

"American Insurgent" wrote in message
ups.com...
Many programs are not yet in full HDTV, including
ABC World News. This results in blank space on the sides. Some
commercials are in standard def, which on HDTV makes additional blank
space on the top and bottom, giving an effect of the signal "floating"
on a sea of darkness.

Some channels will NEVER be "HDTV". The system only ALLOWS for HDTV. The
stations have the choice of either a single HDTV channel, OR up to FIVE
lower resolution channels. I can see most network channels running HD only
during prime time or sporting events for the most part, while leaving the
option open to run other services during the day.


Furthermore, the signal was jerky, like streaming internet video, with
frequent pixelation. I even lost the signal for a few seconds, after
which I checked to see if there was a "trip wire" in the settings that
I could turn down or off. I once had a Panasonic TV that would give
you a blue screen if the signal got too low. That I could turn off;
this I can't. If the signal gets too low with the Samsung STB, it will
give you a "weak signal" screensaver.

You will need an outdoor antenna to get a good usable digital signal. Where
rabbit ears, etc. type indoor antennas can normally get a usable (though
often poor) picture, they will not work well for a digital stream.

My setup at first wouldn't pick up several stations with the slew
buttons; I had to download an HDTV channel list off the net, then
manually enter those stations into memory. Even more confusing, the
Samsung box lists channels not by their HDTV assignment, but by their
standard def channel, a hyphen, and a subchannel, ex. 6-1, 6-2, and
6-3 instead of Channel 53. You can USE the HD channel, but it switches
you right back to this hyphenated system on the display. I suppose
this is to ease the transition, and to allow subchannels, but you are
left not only with two channel numbers for one station but something
less than true HDTV, since stations force two or three services onto
one HD channel. I doubt that was the FCC's intention.

Again, it's not HDTV, it's DIGITAL TV, with the OPTION for the station to
use the entire bandwidth for an HDTV signal.

I suspect that when people realize that they're being forced into HDTV-
with beaucoup dollar amounts required to switch-only to get standard
def, they'll be mad. I'm an electronics geek anyway, so for me it was
worth it. But Joe Sixpack will spend this sort of outlay and find his
HD experience reduced so that his local TV station can bring him 24
hour weather or music videos, and start talking a blue streak.


Joe Sixpack most likely doesn't even notice a difference between HD and
Analog (though there is one, most don't notice or care... after working as a
repair tech for decades, I've seen it more than a few times where a customer
would gripe about how their picture looked worse after I changed a CRT... of
course it did.. with the 3/4 dead CRT that was replaced, they couldn't see
the ghosting or the snow. :)

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 18, 7:06 pm, American Insurgent wrote:

Furthermore, the signal was jerky, like streaming internet video, with
frequent pixelation. I even lost the signal for a few seconds, after

Depending on where you live in Sacramento, signals can be very weak
and require and outdoor antenna. Most stations broadcast their signal
from Walnut Grove. I lived in Sacramento for 23 years and fully
understand the reception problems there. If you live in South
Sacramento, you are more apt to have a strong enough signal to use an
indoor antenna for a digital signal, but even then, what works in one
house may not work in the house next door. With a properly installed
outdoor antenna, WITH rotor, you should have NO problem getting all
the Sacramento stations perfect, AS WELL AS some of the San Francisco
stations. This will usually require a large UHF-VHF tv antenna.
Note: There is no such thing as an hdtv antenna. ALL television
antennas are hdtv-analog compatible. Another factor in Sacramento is
antenna height. Look around. You will see THOUSANDS of tv antennas
mounted on 20-ft to 40-ft masts with a rotor, on a roof top.

I live in Clovis, California (just outside Fresno), 180 miles from
Sacramento, and get hdtv on channels 3, 13, and 58 almost every day,
using a Channel Master 1160A antenna mounted with rotor on a 20-ft
mast. Some days I also get channels 10, 29, and 40 from Sacramento.
Reception is usually strong enough in the mornings and at night. I
have also, on occasion, received hdtv stations from the bay area, 200
miles from me.

Some stations are squeezing two signals on one HDTV channel. In two

That's the bonus with hdvt/digital tv. MORE program choices. In
future years, you may find that channel 40.1 is regular FOX, 40.2
might be FOX NEWS CHANNEL, 40.3 might be FOX MOVIE CHANNEL, etc.

Some reports have said that HDTV from different cities is available in
Sacramento; my antenna won't pick it up. I suppose that if I had an

Of course your indoor antenna won't pick them up. But with the proper
outdoor antenna, the stations you pick up will be perfect - no snow.
Generally speaking, whatever worked for analog reception will work for
digital reception, AS LONG AS the analog reception was good, not
weak. So IF you got, for example, channel 2 in San Francisco, snow-
free with an indoor antenna, you would probably also get their hdtv
signal using the SAME indoor antenna.

Be careful with these out-dated internet lists of hdtv channels. I
have found that the stations are still experimenting and have changed
channels on me at least once. Most Sacramento and Fresno stations
have gone back to using their analog channel numbers instead of the
ones posted on the internet. Unlike most cities, both Sacramento and
Fresno are using both UHF AND VHF channels for hdtv.

In Fresno, our signals are much stronger than you get in Sacramento,
yet my mothers new digital tv got no signal using the BEST non-
amplified indoor antenna made - a 2-bay bowtie with screen. I got her
an amplified antenna, and now all but one of the Fresno hdtv stations
come in, but still occasionally she loses a signal for a few seconds.
In general, indoor antennas are NOT a good choice for a digital
signal.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 6:03 am, Mike wrote:
In article ,
"Brenda Ann" wrote:

You will need an outdoor antenna to get a good usable digital signal. Where
rabbit ears, etc. type indoor antennas can normally get a usable (though
often poor) picture, they will not work well for a digital stream.

Nonsense. I have used 20 year old rabbit ears myself, they work fine
for HDTV. As always, it just depends on how far away you are from the
transmitter. The alignment is critical, of course. You either get a
perfect signal or you get nothing at all by just slightly moving the
antenna.

BUT ! -Why- Always "Fiddle" with a set of Rabbit-Ears Indoors :
When a good 'Fixed" 'passive' HDTV Antenna will produce very
Good Results once it is installed and set-up (pointed-in-the-right-
direction) for many trouble-free Years.

doing it right the frist time saves a lot of 'fiddling'
time and time again over time ~ RHF

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 7:05 am, Zeke Zzzppt wrote:
American Insurgent wrote:
I recently plunked down $650 to be able to get HDTV. That includes
$290 Polaroid 19" LCD HDTV,

Good luck with the "Polaroid"...

I knew 3 people that had a Polaroid VCR/DVD player combo and none of
them lasted for more than 6 months. Service and parts were unobtainable.


Look, I don't expect a TV from Wal-Mart to be that great anyway. I
needed a legit HDTV, and this was the cheapest. Unlike a VCR/DVD
machine, an LCD TV doesn't have any moving parts. Besides, once you
get below $500 or so, everything is made in China, and it's all pretty
much similar quality.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 5:42 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"American Insurgent" wrote in message

ups.com...

Many programs are not yet in full HDTV, including
ABC World News. This results in blank space on the sides. Some
commercials are in standard def, which on HDTV makes additional blank
space on the top and bottom, giving an effect of the signal "floating"
on a sea of darkness.

Some channels will NEVER be "HDTV". The system only ALLOWS for HDTV. The
stations have the choice of either a single HDTV channel, OR up to FIVE
lower resolution channels. I can see most network channels running HD only
during prime time or sporting events for the most part, while leaving the
option open to run other services during the day.

Furthermore, the signal was jerky, like streaming internet video, with

frequent pixelation. I even lost the signal for a few seconds, after
which I checked to see if there was a "trip wire" in the settings that
I could turn down or off. I once had a Panasonic TV that would give
you a blue screen if the signal got too low. That I could turn off;
this I can't. If the signal gets too low with the Samsung STB, it will
give you a "weak signal" screensaver.

- You will need an outdoor antenna to get a good usable digital
signal.
- Where rabbit ears, etc. type indoor antennas can normally get a
- usable (though often poor) picture, they will not work well for a
- digital stream.

A 'passive' 4-Bay UHF TV Antenna will solve most peoples
UHF ANTENNA = http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260148015644
HDTV Reception problems for HDTV Stations with-in 35 Miles.

Once installed one of the new "HDTV' {UHF} Antennas outside
and pointed-in-the-right-direction you should have trouble-free
"Free" HDTV Reception for 10~25 Years. - imho ~ RHF

My setup at first wouldn't pick up several stations with the slew
buttons; I had to download an HDTV channel list off the net, then
manually enter those stations into memory. Even more confusing, the
Samsung box lists channels not by their HDTV assignment, but by their
standard def channel, a hyphen, and a subchannel, ex. 6-1, 6-2, and
6-3 instead of Channel 53. You can USE the HD channel, but it switches
you right back to this hyphenated system on the display. I suppose
this is to ease the transition, and to allow subchannels, but you are
left not only with two channel numbers for one station but something
less than true HDTV, since stations force two or three services onto
one HD channel. I doubt that was the FCC's intention.

Again, it's not HDTV, it's DIGITAL TV, with the OPTION for the station to
use the entire bandwidth for an HDTV signal.

I suspect that when people realize that they're being forced into HDTV-
with beaucoup dollar amounts required to switch-only to get standard
def, they'll be mad. I'm an electronics geek anyway, so for me it was
worth it. But Joe Sixpack will spend this sort of outlay and find his
HD experience reduced so that his local TV station can bring him 24
hour weather or music videos, and start talking a blue streak.

Joe Sixpack most likely doesn't even notice a difference between HD and
Analog (though there is one, most don't notice or care... after working as a
repair tech for decades, I've seen it more than a few times where a customer
would gripe about how their picture looked worse after I changed a CRT... of
course it did.. with the 3/4 dead CRT that was replaced, they couldn't see
the ghosting or the snow. :)

Joe Says : Things Always Look Better On TB After A Six Pack...
Burp !

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 9:05 am, wrote:
On Aug 18, 7:06 pm, American Insurgent wrote:

Furthermore, the signal was jerky, like streaming internet video, with
frequent pixelation. I even lost the signal for a few seconds, after

Depending on where you live in Sacramento, signals can be very weak
and require and outdoor antenna. Most stations broadcast their signal
from Walnut Grove. I lived in Sacramento for 23 years and fully
understand the reception problems there. If you live in South
Sacramento, you are more apt to have a strong enough signal to use an
indoor antenna for a digital signal, but even then, what works in one
house may not work in the house next door. With a properly installed
outdoor antenna, WITH rotor, you should have NO problem getting all
the Sacramento stations perfect, AS WELL AS some of the San Francisco
stations. This will usually require a large UHF-VHF tv antenna.
Note: There is no such thing as an hdtv antenna. ALL television
antennas are hdtv-analog compatible. Another factor in Sacramento is
antenna height. Look around. You will see THOUSANDS of tv antennas
mounted on 20-ft to 40-ft masts with a rotor, on a roof top.

I live in Clovis, California (just outside Fresno), 180 miles from
Sacramento, and get hdtv on channels 3, 13, and 58 almost every day,
using a Channel Master 1160A antenna mounted with rotor on a 20-ft
mast. Some days I also get channels 10, 29, and 40 from Sacramento.
Reception is usually strong enough in the mornings and at night. I
have also, on occasion, received hdtv stations from the bay area, 200
miles from me.

Some stations are squeezing two signals on one HDTV channel. In two

That's the bonus with hdvt/digital tv. MORE program choices. In
future years, you may find that channel 40.1 is regular FOX, 40.2
might be FOX NEWS CHANNEL, 40.3 might be FOX MOVIE CHANNEL, etc.

Some reports have said that HDTV from different cities is available in
Sacramento; my antenna won't pick it up. I suppose that if I had an

Of course your indoor antenna won't pick them up. But with the proper
outdoor antenna, the stations you pick up will be perfect - no snow.
Generally speaking, whatever worked for analog reception will work for
digital reception, AS LONG AS the analog reception was good, not
weak. So IF you got, for example, channel 2 in San Francisco, snow-
free with an indoor antenna, you would probably also get their hdtv
signal using the SAME indoor antenna.

Be careful with these out-dated internet lists of hdtv channels. I
have found that the stations are still experimenting and have changed
channels on me at least once. Most Sacramento and Fresno stations
have gone back to using their analog channel numbers instead of the
ones posted on the internet. Unlike most cities, both Sacramento and
Fresno are using both UHF AND VHF channels for hdtv.

In Fresno, our signals are much stronger than you get in Sacramento,
yet my mothers new digital tv got no signal using the BEST non-
amplified indoor antenna made - a 2-bay bowtie with screen. I got her
an amplified antenna, and now all but one of the Fresno hdtv stations
come in, but still occasionally she loses a signal for a few seconds.
In general, indoor antennas are NOT a good choice for a digital
signal.

TIP - If you buy one of the Amplified (~20dB Gain) HDTV Antennas
that has a Built-in-Rotor and a Remote-Control to operate it.
- - - Try to find one that also has the Directional Controls on the
Controller Box. -IF- You lose or damage the Remote Control at
least you will not be UCWP / DIW ~ RHF

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 11:10 am, American Insurgent wrote:
On Aug 19, 7:05 am, Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

American Insurgent wrote:
I recently plunked down $650 to be able to get HDTV. That includes
$290 Polaroid 19" LCD HDTV,

Good luck with the "Polaroid"...

I knew 3 people that had a Polaroid VCR/DVD player combo and none of
them lasted for more than 6 months. Service and parts were unobtainable.

Look, I don't expect a TV from Wal-Mart to be that great anyway. I
needed a legit HDTV, and this was the cheapest. Unlike a VCR/DVD
machine, an LCD TV doesn't have any moving parts. Besides, once you
get below $500 or so, everything is made in China, and it's all pretty
much similar quality.

AI - Most of the Under-$750-LCD-HDTVs have a Brightness
of ~500 cd/m2 with a relatively good Contrast Ratio of 800:1

While the Over-$1250-HDTVs still have a Brightness of ~500
cd/m2 with a relatively much better Contrast Ratio of 2000:1

The 'quality' of the Picture "definition" is usually seen in the
Picture Contrast : Black picture background vice off-black
-and- relatively Brighter Colors and Color Intensity.

Note - Screen Size and Pixel Resolution being equal.


hdtv - seeing is believing ~ RHF

Over the air HDTV: report
 

American Insurgent wrote:
I recently plunked down $650 to be able to get HDTV. That includes
$290 Polaroid 19" LCD HDTV, $180 Samsung HDTV set top box, $70 for an
HDTV indoor antenna, and a whopping $65 for a special cable called an
HDMI cable (in addition to tax). I watched some OTA HDTV tonight, and
was disappointed. Many programs are not yet in full HDTV, including
ABC World News. This results in blank space on the sides. Some
commercials are in standard def, which on HDTV makes additional blank
space on the top and bottom, giving an effect of the signal "floating"
on a sea of darkness.

Furthermore, the signal was jerky, like streaming internet video, with
frequent pixelation. I even lost the signal for a few seconds, after
which I checked to see if there was a "trip wire" in the settings that
I could turn down or off. I once had a Panasonic TV that would give
you a blue screen if the signal got too low. That I could turn off;
this I can't. If the signal gets too low with the Samsung STB, it will
give you a "weak signal" screensaver.

Some stations are squeezing two signals on one HDTV channel. In two
cases, the second channel is a 24/7 weather channel with local weather
reports; in a third case the Fox station has a music video service
called "The Tube" on their second channel. The PBS station has an
amazing THREE stations on one channel! One is their regular channel,
one is a second channel that is usually available only on cable, and a
third is V-me, a PBS service for Latinos in Spanish. The Univision
(Spanish language) channel supposedly has an HDTV service, but there's
nothing there.

Some reports have said that HDTV from different cities is available in
Sacramento; my antenna won't pick it up. I suppose that if I had an
outdoor antenna on a pole I'd get it. Two channels, including a local
weather channel and the HDTV signal of a second tier station, are weak
and keep cutting out. If this is HDTV after years of government
pressure and millions spent, it's clearly not ready for prime time so
to speak. Hopefully by switch time they'll have ironed out the bugs.

My setup at first wouldn't pick up several stations with the slew
buttons; I had to download an HDTV channel list off the net, then
manually enter those stations into memory. Even more confusing, the
Samsung box lists channels not by their HDTV assignment, but by their
standard def channel, a hyphen, and a subchannel, ex. 6-1, 6-2, and
6-3 instead of Channel 53. You can USE the HD channel, but it switches
you right back to this hyphenated system on the display. I suppose
this is to ease the transition, and to allow subchannels, but you are
left not only with two channel numbers for one station but something
less than true HDTV, since stations force two or three services onto
one HD channel. I doubt that was the FCC's intention.

I suspect that when people realize that they're being forced into HDTV-
with beaucoup dollar amounts required to switch-only to get standard
def, they'll be mad. I'm an electronics geek anyway, so for me it was
worth it. But Joe Sixpack will spend this sort of outlay and find his
HD experience reduced so that his local TV station can bring him 24
hour weather or music videos, and start talking a blue streak.

I use a MAC-Mini attached to my ELGATO EyeTV 500 HD converter with the
Samsung 213T 21 inch display.
The nearest transmitter is some 30 miles from my house, with most of
them 50 miles.
Like you, I was initially disappointed that most of the stations
broadcast 2 or 3 channels per channel, but I like the fact that the
picture comes in crystal clear. On my ABC affiliate "Lost" really comes
alive as compared to the analog signal and in 5.1 surround sound.
I also use the MAC-Mini to record and burn the DVD of the shows I like.
although I don't have Blue-Ray yet, the computer has to convert it back
to regular definition which takes some time, but it looks as good as if
I bought the regular DVD from the store.
I normally work Swing-shift so it comes in handy.
I think that if Joe-six-pack where to be shown what is possible with the
new system then he wouldn't scream so much.

Ken.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Brenda Ann" wrote:

You will need an outdoor antenna to get a good usable digital signal.
Where
rabbit ears, etc. type indoor antennas can normally get a usable (though
often poor) picture, they will not work well for a digital stream.

Nonsense. I have used 20 year old rabbit ears myself, they work fine
for HDTV. As always, it just depends on how far away you are from the
transmitter. The alignment is critical, of course. You either get a
perfect signal or you get nothing at all by just slightly moving the
antenna.

Joe Sixpack most likely doesn't even notice a difference between HD and
Analog (though there is one, most don't notice or care... after working
as a
repair tech for decades,

There is HUGE difference in picture quality, especially on a large TV.
I have a 42" plasma set that I don't even watch unless it's an HD
signal, because analog looks so bad.

That's because analog is not in the native resolution of the set. If it
were, you likely would not notice near as much difference. The convertor (in
the display) must take the (nominally 640x480) a/d conversion and multiply
it it to the native resolution of the display (1028x1660?), resulting in a
very ugly, pixellated display.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 18, 7:06 pm, American Insurgent wrote:

I live in Clovis, California (just outside Fresno), 180 miles from
Sacramento, and get hdtv on channels 3, 13, and 58 almost every day,
using a Channel Master 1160A antenna mounted with rotor on a 20-ft
mast. Some days I also get channels 10, 29, and 40 from Sacramento.
Reception is usually strong enough in the mornings and at night. I
have also, on occasion, received hdtv stations from the bay area, 200
miles from me.

I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi up
in a tree and aimed it for San Francisco. We could get a fair picture in the
morning and evening, but nothing but snow during the day. Because of a
mountain intervening, we really didn't get much signal at all from Sacto.
Our best signal was from "Perfect 36".

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 3:12 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:


I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi up

Paradise is well over 250 miles from Clovis/Fresno. Fresno is between
San Francisco and Los Angeles whereas Paradise is Near Chico, or even
closer to Magalia, California.

When I lived in Sacramento, I got analog channels from Chico, Redding,
Reno, San Francisco, San Jose, Salinas, Concord, and sometimes even
from Fresno. With the SAME antenna, I would expect to also get the
digital signals from those same stations.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

wrote in message
s.com...
On Aug 19, 3:12 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:


I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi
up

Paradise is well over 250 miles from Clovis/Fresno. Fresno is between
San Francisco and Los Angeles whereas Paradise is Near Chico, or even
closer to Magalia, California.


Chalk it up to getting old. I confused Chico with Fresno (not a lot of
difference between the two, though. Both are like living in hell with a few
trees. Fresno is a few degrees hotter.. :)

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 5:18 pm, wrote:
On Aug 19, 3:12 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:



I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi up

Paradise is well over 250 miles from Clovis/Fresno. Fresno is between
San Francisco and Los Angeles whereas Paradise is Near Chico, or even
closer to Magalia, California.

When I lived in Sacramento, I got analog channels from Chico, Redding,
Reno, San Francisco, San Jose, Salinas, Concord, and sometimes even
from Fresno. With the SAME antenna, I would expect to also get the
digital signals from those same stations.

I have been to Paradise, CA -and- I have been to Hell . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell%2C_California

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 4:12 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

On Aug 18, 7:06 pm, American Insurgent wrote:

I live in Clovis, California (just outside Fresno), 180 miles from
Sacramento, and get hdtv on channels 3, 13, and 58 almost every day,
using a Channel Master 1160A antenna mounted with rotor on a 20-ft
mast. Some days I also get channels 10, 29, and 40 from Sacramento.
Reception is usually strong enough in the mornings and at night. I
have also, on occasion, received hdtv stations from the bay area, 200
miles from me.

I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi up
in a tree and aimed it for San Francisco. We could get a fair picture in the
morning and evening, but nothing but snow during the day. Because of a
mountain intervening, we really didn't get much signal at all from Sacto.
Our best signal was from "Perfect 36".


You probably had a sunrise/sunset effect, if I call it something Ace
will scream at me so I'll just leave it at that. Channel 36 put out a
powerful signal for 20 years until the early 2000s. When I was a kid
in the 1980s a standard tabletop rabbit ears antenna with a loop would
pick it up quite easily in Roseville, 140 miles from San Jose. Even if
San Francisco stations weren't coming in, 36 would come in. Then
around five years ago they abruptly vanished. I suspect that the old
transmitter croaked and the station replaced it with a much less
muscular unit.

I always thought it was a shame that 36 had such crappy programming
for the signal they put out. They were an old fashioned independent
station-lots of old movies and cheap reruns. 36 had very little self-
produced programming. The self-produced local show had largely
disappeared from most TV (except PBS, and even they got most of their
stuff from WGBH) by 36's heyday. The advent of satellites and VCRs
meant that stations could fill airtime without resorting to producing
much of their own stuff.

It also meant that the stations could operate 24 hours, instead of
shutting down after the 11 pm news and going back on at 7 am. By the
late 80s stations were signing off only once a week for transmitter
maintenance. A few years after that, they perfected the science of
staying on while doing maintenance, and all TV became 24 hours. I used
to love staying up late in the summer (when there was no school) and
watching the stations sign off Sunday night for maintenance. By then
it was one of the few ways they could express themselves. Channel 40
in Sacramento had 2 minute opinion programs for a long time, until
people got too dumb to tell opinion from regular programming or to
recognize opinion when they saw it (what's this?), and the station was
rendered unable to express management's opinions.

By the way, I decided to manually enter EVERY SINGLE CHANNEL into the
TV to see what popped up, and got a couple surprises. Univision is on
channel 18, just like the list said, although weak. There's a
Christian station on HD Channel 48 that's not on the list. Apparently
it's the HD service of analog channel 29, which once ran a short lived
family programming network called Pax. Today, it's running a network
called Ion-on a mind boggling FOUR channels. One is Ion, one is
"qubo", apparently a Christian children's network, one is Ion Life,
and a fourth is "Worship", apparently Christian music videos. Channel
13 runs a second channel for sporting events.

Entering the analog channel into the box will cause the first
subchannel of the HD service of the analog station to pop up-IF you
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to
channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62. If you
look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of
disorientation until people adapt. But I'm the guy who was thrown for
a loop when CBS and ABC switched channels with each other in
Sacramento, so what do I know. :)

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 19, 2:39 pm, K Isham wrote:
American Insurgent wrote:
I recently plunked down $650 to be able to get HDTV. That includes
$290 Polaroid 19" LCD HDTV, $180 Samsung HDTV set top box, $70 for an
HDTV indoor antenna, and a whopping $65 for a special cable called an
HDMI cable (in addition to tax). I watched some OTA HDTV tonight, and
was disappointed. Many programs are not yet in full HDTV, including
ABC World News. This results in blank space on the sides. Some
commercials are in standard def, which on HDTV makes additional blank
space on the top and bottom, giving an effect of the signal "floating"
on a sea of darkness.

Furthermore, the signal was jerky, like streaming internet video, with
frequent pixelation. I even lost the signal for a few seconds, after
which I checked to see if there was a "trip wire" in the settings that
I could turn down or off. I once had a Panasonic TV that would give
you a blue screen if the signal got too low. That I could turn off;
this I can't. If the signal gets too low with the Samsung STB, it will
give you a "weak signal" screensaver.

Some stations are squeezing two signals on one HDTV channel. In two
cases, the second channel is a 24/7 weather channel with local weather
reports; in a third case the Fox station has a music video service
called "The Tube" on their second channel. The PBS station has an
amazing THREE stations on one channel! One is their regular channel,
one is a second channel that is usually available only on cable, and a
third is V-me, a PBS service for Latinos in Spanish. The Univision
(Spanish language) channel supposedly has an HDTV service, but there's
nothing there.

Some reports have said that HDTV from different cities is available in
Sacramento; my antenna won't pick it up. I suppose that if I had an
outdoor antenna on a pole I'd get it. Two channels, including a local
weather channel and the HDTV signal of a second tier station, are weak
and keep cutting out. If this is HDTV after years of government
pressure and millions spent, it's clearly not ready for prime time so
to speak. Hopefully by switch time they'll have ironed out the bugs.

My setup at first wouldn't pick up several stations with the slew
buttons; I had to download an HDTV channel list off the net, then
manually enter those stations into memory. Even more confusing, the
Samsung box lists channels not by their HDTV assignment, but by their
standard def channel, a hyphen, and a subchannel, ex. 6-1, 6-2, and
6-3 instead of Channel 53. You can USE the HD channel, but it switches
you right back to this hyphenated system on the display. I suppose
this is to ease the transition, and to allow subchannels, but you are
left not only with two channel numbers for one station but something
less than true HDTV, since stations force two or three services onto
one HD channel. I doubt that was the FCC's intention.

I suspect that when people realize that they're being forced into HDTV-
with beaucoup dollar amounts required to switch-only to get standard
def, they'll be mad. I'm an electronics geek anyway, so for me it was
worth it. But Joe Sixpack will spend this sort of outlay and find his
HD experience reduced so that his local TV station can bring him 24
hour weather or music videos, and start talking a blue streak.

I use a MAC-Mini attached to my ELGATO EyeTV 500 HD converter with the
Samsung 213T 21 inch display.
The nearest transmitter is some 30 miles from my house, with most of
them 50 miles.
Like you, I was initially disappointed that most of the stations
broadcast 2 or 3 channels per channel, but I like the fact that the
picture comes in crystal clear. On my ABC affiliate "Lost" really comes
alive as compared to the analog signal and in 5.1 surround sound.
I also use the MAC-Mini to record and burn the DVD of the shows I like.
although I don't have Blue-Ray yet, the computer has to convert it back
to regular definition which takes some time, but it looks as good as if
I bought the regular DVD from the store.
I normally work Swing-shift so it comes in handy.
I think that if Joe-six-pack where to be shown what is possible with the
new system then he wouldn't scream so much.

Ken.

Americans were the same people who screamed when the country tried to
switch to metric, so I don't know how well HDTV is gonna be swallowed.
The expense alone will give people sticker shock. Our local cable
system is not keeping up-they only have four local HD channels,
instead of the smorgasbord you can find over the air. If Comcast
doesn't get its act together they're gonna lose customers to DirecTV
and plain old antennas. DirecTV plans 100 digital channels. Comcast
charges an ADDITIONAL $10 to get HD, and then offers a grand total of
about 10 channels. I can get more than that with an antenna, when
subchannels are factored in. Maybe Comcast is counting on their
current business model, which is to offer internet where AT&T can't
offer DSL, then strongarm internet subscribers into coughing up for
TV. I suspect that as the telcos and the cable companies get more and
more aggressive in monopolizing the internet that people will switch
to satellite internet services like Wild Blue, which today mainly
cater to rural folk away from DSL and cable.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:49:56 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to

Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62.

In the interim, DTV stations are possible on all 68 channels. The FCC
*tried* to avoid assigning interim channels above 51 (and especially above
59) but in some areas, like California, it simply wasn't possible.

I count only 17 interim DTV facilities above channel 59. However, three
of them are in Northern California. (and five in Los Angeles)

All of these go away in about 18 months. When the analog signals are shut
down in February 2009, all DTV stations above channel 51 will move to
lower channels. In most cases, that means their current analog channel
will be reactivated as digital. See below.

look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of

The current DTV channels are considered interim, for the transition
process. Many of them will change on Transition Day in February 2009.
Definitely ABC in Sacramento, because channel 61 will no longer be a valid
TV channel!

In Sacramento:
Channel 3: Interim 35, stays on 35.
Channel 6: Interim 53, moves to 9.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 30)
Channel 10: Interim 61, returns to 10.
Channel 13: Interim 25, stays on 25.
Channel 19: Interim 18, stays on 18.
Channel 29: Interim 48, stays on 48.
Channel 31: Interim 21, stays on 21.
Channel 40: Interim 55, returns to 40.
Channel 58: Interim 46, stays on 46.
Channel 64: Interim 62, moves to 26.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 27)

When you get up on the morning of February 18, 2009, you'll have to go
into your TV's setup menu and do another channel scan, to find your locals
on their new channels. You may have to do it more than once during that
week as I suspect some stations may not get moved to their new channels
quite on time...

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:42:38 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:
Some channels will NEVER be "HDTV". The system only ALLOWS for HDTV. The
stations have the choice of either a single HDTV channel, OR up to FIVE
lower resolution channels. I can see most network channels running HD only
during prime time or sporting events for the most part, while leaving the
option open to run other services during the day.

You can have HDTV plus another SDTV (standard-resolution) channel.

Actually, to the best of my knowledge there is no hard limit on how many
channels you can offer - you could in theory have five HDTV channels - but
the necessary compression would probably yield five unintelligible
macroblock-filled channels. I do know of stations running one HDTV and
two SDTVs though one of the SDTVs is usually a weather forecast which can
live with a very small bandwidth allocation.

But the station I work for does run one HDTV and one SDTV (as does one of
our competitors) and it works fine.

A handful of PBS stations are already running multiple subchannels during
the day, then shutting down the subchannels at night in favor of a single
HD channel. That plan works well with PBS' mission, not so much so for
commercial stations. (I don't think you'll see much of it on commercial
operations)

You will need an outdoor antenna to get a good usable digital signal.

Not necessarily true. I live in a typical single-story brick ranch house
25 miles from the transmitters. I get reliable reception from four
stations with rabbit ears.

It does require an outdoor antenna to get the other stations; that said,
the *analog* signals I get from those stations on rabbit ears are
something nobody would watch anyway.

Generally, if a given antenna gives you a stable analog signal that your
mother-in-law would watch without complaining, it'll probably give you
stable DTV reception. Unless the station is skimping on power. (unlikely
in large markets, quite likely in small ones.)

(OT) : Over-the-Air {Free} HDTV Report - Get a HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
 

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 01:17:50 -0700, RHF wrote:
Note - Most of the new HDTV Channels are UHF 14-83 and only
require the smaller UHF 'size' TV Antennas -but- these are also
more directional : Hence the Built-in-Rotor.

Most, but not all! In San Francisco, NBC (KNTV-11) is already on VHF
channel 12, and ABC will be moving to VHF channel 7 in 18 months, when
their analog vacates the channel.

In Sacramento, there are no VHF DTVs now, but on Transition Day PBS
(KVIE-6) and ABC (KXTV-10) will be moving to VHF channels 9 and 10
respectively.

Likewise in other cities.

Salespeople at "big box" stores will tell you you MUST buy a new HDTV
antenna for use with your new HDTV. The antennas they sell are nearly
always UHF-only. Do not expect to receive all your local stations if you
buy their special antenna. It may work now, but some of your channels may
disappear in 2009.

If the antenna you already have on your old analog set is working OK, it
will be fine for HDTV.

(OT) : Over-the-Air {Free} HDTV Report - Get a HDTV Antenna-RotorCombo
 

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 01:17:50 -0700, RHF wrote:
Note - Most of the new HDTV Channels are UHF 14-83 and only
require the smaller UHF 'size' TV Antennas -but- these are also
more directional : Hence the Built-in-Rotor.

Most, but not all! In San Francisco, NBC (KNTV-11) is already on VHF
channel 12, and ABC will be moving to VHF channel 7 in 18 months, when
their analog vacates the channel.

In Sacramento, there are no VHF DTVs now, but on Transition Day PBS
(KVIE-6) and ABC (KXTV-10) will be moving to VHF channels 9 and 10
respectively.

Likewise in other cities.

Salespeople at "big box" stores will tell you you MUST buy a new HDTV
antenna for use with your new HDTV. The antennas they sell are nearly
always UHF-only. Do not expect to receive all your local stations if you
buy their special antenna. It may work now, but some of your channels may
disappear in 2009.

If the antenna you already have on your old analog set is working OK, it
will be fine for HDTV.

(OT) : Over-the-Air {Free} HDTV Report - Get a HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
 

On Aug 20, 6:41 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 01:17:50 -0700, RHF wrote:
Note - Most of the new HDTV Channels are UHF 14-83 and only
require the smaller UHF 'size' TV Antennas -but- these are also
more directional : Hence the Built-in-Rotor.

Most, but not all! In San Francisco, NBC (KNTV-11) is already on VHF
channel 12, and ABC will be moving to VHF channel 7 in 18 months, when
their analog vacates the channel.

In Sacramento, there are no VHF DTVs now, but on Transition Day PBS
(KVIE-6) and ABC (KXTV-10) will be moving to VHF channels 9 and 10
respectively.

Likewise in other cities.

Salespeople at "big box" stores will tell you you MUST buy a new HDTV
antenna for use with your new HDTV. The antennas they sell are nearly
always UHF-only. Do not expect to receive all your local stations if you
buy their special antenna. It may work now, but some of your channels may
disappear in 2009.

If the antenna you already have on your old analog set is working OK, it
will be fine for HDTV.


I'm using an HDTV antenna made by Terk, which gets both VHF and UHF
HD. It has a scary looking UHF antenna, then two rabbit ears for VHF.
When assembled, and with the whips down, it looks like the number 7.
There's a Philips HD antenna that has just the UHF element. For a
while, Radio Shack was selling an HD antenna that had two loops
mounted parallel to the table surface, unlike most antennas where the
loop is perpendicular. I have no idea if that was a UHF only antenna.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 20, 6:27 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:49:56 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to

Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62.

In the interim, DTV stations are possible on all 68 channels. The FCC
*tried* to avoid assigning interim channels above 51 (and especially above
59) but in some areas, like California, it simply wasn't possible.

I count only 17 interim DTV facilities above channel 59. However, three
of them are in Northern California. (and five in Los Angeles)

All of these go away in about 18 months. When the analog signals are shut
down in February 2009, all DTV stations above channel 51 will move to
lower channels. In most cases, that means their current analog channel
will be reactivated as digital. See below.

look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of

The current DTV channels are considered interim, for the transition
process. Many of them will change on Transition Day in February 2009.
Definitely ABC in Sacramento, because channel 61 will no longer be a valid
TV channel!

In Sacramento:
Channel 3: Interim 35, stays on 35.
Channel 6: Interim 53, moves to 9.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 30)
Channel 10: Interim 61, returns to 10.
Channel 13: Interim 25, stays on 25.
Channel 19: Interim 18, stays on 18.
Channel 29: Interim 48, stays on 48.
Channel 31: Interim 21, stays on 21.
Channel 40: Interim 55, returns to 40.
Channel 58: Interim 46, stays on 46.
Channel 64: Interim 62, moves to 26.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 27)

When you get up on the morning of February 18, 2009, you'll have to go
into your TV's setup menu and do another channel scan, to find your locals
on their new channels. You may have to do it more than once during that
week as I suspect some stations may not get moved to their new channels
quite on time...

DS,

Now that you have explained all that - this Joe Six-Pack
is going to sit-down and have a Beer :o) ~ RHF

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Aug 20, 6:27 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:49:56 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to

Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

Yeah, I figured something like that. Tertiary stations skimp on lots
of stuff, since they don't have lots of cash.


channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62.

In the interim, DTV stations are possible on all 68 channels. The FCC
*tried* to avoid assigning interim channels above 51 (and especially above
59) but in some areas, like California, it simply wasn't possible.

I count only 17 interim DTV facilities above channel 59. However, three
of them are in Northern California. (and five in Los Angeles)

All of these go away in about 18 months. When the analog signals are shut
down in February 2009, all DTV stations above channel 51 will move to
lower channels. In most cases, that means their current analog channel
will be reactivated as digital. See below.

look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of

The current DTV channels are considered interim, for the transition
process. Many of them will change on Transition Day in February 2009.
Definitely ABC in Sacramento, because channel 61 will no longer be a valid
TV channel!

In Sacramento:
Channel 3: Interim 35, stays on 35.
Channel 6: Interim 53, moves to 9.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 30)
Channel 10: Interim 61, returns to 10.
Channel 13: Interim 25, stays on 25.
Channel 19: Interim 18, stays on 18.
Channel 29: Interim 48, stays on 48.
Channel 31: Interim 21, stays on 21.
Channel 40: Interim 55, returns to 40.
Channel 58: Interim 46, stays on 46.
Channel 64: Interim 62, moves to 26.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 27)

When you get up on the morning of February 18, 2009, you'll have to go
into your TV's setup menu and do another channel scan, to find your locals
on their new channels. You may have to do it more than once during that
week as I suspect some stations may not get moved to their new channels
quite on time...


Did you get this from a website? If you did, I'd like the url, since I
may be living in a different state on D Day.

I can't get HD channel 62 (analog 64). But it really doesn't matter,
since it's Telemundo (Spanish).

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:51:20 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

Yeah, I figured something like that. Tertiary stations skimp on lots
of stuff, since they don't have lots of cash.

An improper TVCT is theoretically illegal - the FCC regulations
incorporate the ATSC standard - but I suspect the Commission will settle
for the station being on the air at all and using a virtual channel number
that doesn't conflict with anyone else...

In any case, no extra equipment is necessary to do it right. It's just a
matter of properly setting up the equipment the station already has. Of
course, that does require a qualified engineer, which is usually more
expensive than better equipment.....

Did you get this from a website? If you did, I'd like the url, since I
may be living in a different state on D Day.

My own(grin).
http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/dtvfinal/dtvindex.htm
The data comes from an FCC spreadsheet.

I can't get HD channel 62 (analog 64). But it really doesn't matter,
since it's Telemundo (Spanish).

I think channel 62 (and 64) are on Mt. Diablo, quite a bit further from
Sacramento than the other stations.

Over the air HDTV: report
 

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:51:01 -0700, RHF wrote:
To the average TV/HDTV Viewer using Cable TV
or DirectTV will any of this matter ?

FCC figures do indicate roughly 20% of the audience nationally is still
using an antenna as their only source of TV. (this figure varies wildly
between markets) A considerably larger number of people have
cable/satellite on some TVs but also have some sets that aren't connected.

20% is definitely a minority, but it does reflect 60 million Americans!

(OT) : Over-the-Air {Free} HDTV Report - Get a HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
 

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:45:51 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
I'm using an HDTV antenna made by Terk, which gets both VHF and UHF
HD. It has a scary looking UHF antenna, then two rabbit ears for VHF.
When assembled, and with the whips down, it looks like the number 7.
There's a Philips HD antenna that has just the UHF element. For a
while, Radio Shack was selling an HD antenna that had two loops
mounted parallel to the table surface, unlike most antennas where the
loop is perpendicular. I have no idea if that was a UHF only antenna.

There's a Zenith antenna out there that's designed to work only on UHF but
people have found it's OK for channels 7-13 as well. Channels 2-6 are a
lost cause on that antenna, but there are very few DTV stations planning
on using those channels. (you should check before buying one though, and
make sure your city isn't one of the exceptions!)

In theory, the old UHF loops would always have worked better when bent
parallel to the table surface. All TV stations' signals have a
horizontally-polarized component - almost none (especially on UHF) have a
vertical component.

Experts are finding that the old-fashioned "bow-tie" antennas (with the
flat screen behind them) are the most effective DTV antennas. In theory
they're only good for UHF but people are reporting decent results on
channels 7-13 as well.

(OT) : Over-the-Air {Free} HDTV Report - Get a HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
 

On Aug 21, 6:46 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:45:51 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
I'm using an HDTV antenna made by Terk, which gets both VHF and UHF
HD. It has a scary looking UHF antenna, then two rabbit ears for VHF.
When assembled, and with the whips down, it looks like the number 7.
There's a Philips HD antenna that has just the UHF element. For a
while, Radio Shack was selling an HD antenna that had two loops
mounted parallel to the table surface, unlike most antennas where the
loop is perpendicular. I have no idea if that was a UHF only antenna.

There's a Zenith antenna out there that's designed to work only on UHF but
people have found it's OK for channels 7-13 as well. Channels 2-6 are a
lost cause on that antenna, but there are very few DTV stations planning
on using those channels. (you should check before buying one though, and
make sure your city isn't one of the exceptions!)

In theory, the old UHF loops would always have worked better when bent
parallel to the table surface. All TV stations' signals have a
horizontally-polarized component - almost none (especially on UHF) have a
vertical component.

Experts are finding that the old-fashioned "bow-tie" antennas (with the
flat screen behind them) are the most effective DTV antennas. In theory
they're only good for UHF but people are reporting decent results on
channels 7-13 as well.

This HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
Claims to have Coveage of Channels 2-79
HDTV ANTENNA = http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260150283040
A-Neutronics, Inc. Model# AV-891 - Specifications*
· Frequency Range: 40~860MHz
· TV CHANNELS: 2-79
· Antenna Height: ~21" width: ~16"
· Receiving: HDTV/UHF/VHF/FM
· Range: up to 50 Miles
(Estimated range, based on reception over flat and open terrain)
· CONNECTOR: 75 ohm "F"
· GAIN: VHF:32~34dB; UHF:34~36dB
· NOISE FIGU 7dB
· Power Supply: input AC110V 60Hz
· Turning Degree: ~360

This HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo also claims
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ250155800238
Frequency : 45 - 860 MHz
Channels : VHF 2-13 UHF 21-69

NOTE - Both are Amplified with a Rotor

While the Non-Amplifier and Non-Rotor
4-Bay Bow-Tie Antennas are only rated for UHF
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260148015644
· Frequency Range : 470~862MHz
· TV CHANNELS : 14-69
-and- this 2-Bay Bow-Tie Antenna covers
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ230160696625
only UHF Channels 14-69

~ RHF
.
.
.. .




~ RHF

(OT) : Over-the-Air {Free} HDTV Report - Get a HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
 

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:32:03 -0700, RHF wrote:
This HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
Claims to have Coveage of Channels 2-79
HDTV ANTENNA = http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260150283040
A-Neutronics, Inc. Model# AV-891 - Specifications*
· Frequency Range: 40~860MHz
· TV CHANNELS: 2-79
· Antenna Height: ~21" width: ~16"
....
This HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo also claims
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ250155800238
Frequency : 45 - 860 MHz
Channels : VHF 2-13 UHF 21-69

A quarter-wavelength on channel 2 is roughly 1.5m or about 60". Any
antenna whose largest dimension is 21" is going to be very much a
compromise on VHF.

"Up to 50 miles", kinda suggests that if the VHF station is operating from
a 2,000-foot mountain, you're on a hill too, there are no noisy
computers in your house, and the atmospherics are just right, you might
get a snowy picture. I would suggest that in "real life" 10-15 miles
might be a better estimate, at least for VHF.

(OT) : Over-the-Air {Free} HDTV Report - Get a HDTVAntenna-Rot...
 

I haven't checked in quite a few years, (before I got DirecTV) but I
guess I can still pick up Ameica One tv out of Greenville, Mississippi
on one of my tv sets that isn't hooked up to DirecTV.The picture was
snowy though because Greenville is about seventy miles North Northwest
of me, on the Mississippi River.I think America One tv is broadcast out
of Arlington,Texas and relayed to Greenville.Of course, when the big
HDTV switchover comes if Feburary 2009, I probally won't be able to pick
up America One tv.I don't want HDTV, SCREW the fcc!.
Local Jackson area tv stations I can pick up are, WLBT 3 NBC, WJTV 12
CBS, WAPT 3 ABC, WMPN 29 PBS, WRBJ 34 CW TV Services, WUFX 35 NNT TV
Services, WDBD 40 FOX.There is another tv station that might be
broadcasting in Jackson someday, WWJX, may be independent, owner is
Flinn Broadcasting.
cuhulin

(OT) : Over-the-Air {Free} HDTV Report - Get a HDTVAntenna-Rot...
 

Another tv station I almost forgot about is, RFD TV
www.devilfinder.com RFD TV Jackson Mississippi DirecTV

on channel 379.There is a Cattle Auction going on there right now.
cuhulin