msg wrote:
Brian wrote:

I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to
set up a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've
pretty much decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the
stuff's dirt cheap and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot.
snip

Be careful of coax purchases from Home Depot; strip the outer jacket and
inspect the braid before buying. Product that I have bought has lousy
shielding at low vhf (50 Mhz) and probably will be unsuitable at HF as
well. I don't remember the OEM.

Regards,

Michael



Use satellite rated quad shield.

Telamon wrote:
In article ,
"Brian" wrote:

I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
a similar 50 ohm coax?

I would not buy cable with the wrong impedance especially on the
Wellbrook because I don't know how well the amplifier at the head end
stands up to reflections. Some amplifiers become less stable into a load
other than what it was designed for. Why don't you fire off that
question to them.

On the wire antennas you will take a hit on performance depending on
frequency unless you use transformers on both ends.


I'd give it a try. I doubt modern active devices will have any trouble
with such a small difference.

On Dec 30, 9:44*pm, msg wrote:
Brian wrote:
I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot.

snip
-
- Be careful of coax purchases from Home Depot;
- strip the outer jacket and inspect the braid before buying.
-*Product that I have bought has lousy shielding at low vhf
- (50 Mhz) and probably will be unsuitable at HF as well.
-*I don't remember the OEM.
-
- Regards,
-
- Michael
-

MSG,

Yes the 'quality' of Coax Cable does vary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable#Standards
Especially when you buy 'Generic' Stuff at a BigBox
{Discount} Retailer at a Low Price.

Usually Quad-Shield RG6 {75 Ohm} Coax Cable is fairly good stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RG-6
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/coax.html#HT-RG6QB
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/coax.html#BE-1189A
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/coax.html#BE-7916A
* Two Aluminium Braid Shields 60% and 40%
* Two AL Foil 100% Shields
* Gas-Injected (Foamed) PE Dielectric
* Inner Conductor : Solid Copper or Copper-Clad-Steel
PVC Outer Jacket {Cover}
http://cableorganizer.com/coaxial-ca...oax-cable.html
http://www.homenetworkgear.com/catal...6F 8&pid=1207

Genesis* 1000 Feet Bulk RG-6 Quad Shield Coaxial Cable
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ130139914168
* Genesis Premium Broadband Cable, Manufactured by Honeywell

What Does "RG-6" {Coax Cable} Mean ?
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/rg6.htm
-presented by- Blue Jeans Cable

Note - Home Depot only lists one RG6 Coax Cable OnLine.
http://tinyurl.com/3y97cq
Brand 'BICC'
500 Ft. Black RG6 Quad-Shield Coaxial Cable
Model 92041-45-08 -
Cable Type : RG6/U
Impedance Ohms : 75 Ohms
Nominal O.D. : 0.307 In.
Wire Gauge/Number of Conductors : 1/18 AWG
Cable Length : 500 Ft.
Suitable for LAN, cable, digital video, and direct broadcast
satellite.
Sunlight Resistant - Coaxial Cable
Home Depot - http://www.homedepot.com/

CAUTION - The big problem with RG6 Coax Cable and even
the Quad-Shield type is the Aluminium Braid is not as good
a Conductor as Copper Braid.

TIP - You may have to run a Heavy Copper Wire along with
the RG6 Coax Cable to "Bond" your Antenna Ground with
your House's AC Mains Ground.

Be Advised - None of the above RG6 Coax Cable
is 'designated' for Direct Burial.


you got to be 'wired' to listen to the radio - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}

In article 43a532e0-63d5-4ae1-b27a-72085c8bbbf8
@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...
On Dec 30, 9:37*pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
Brian wrote:
I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
a similar 50 ohm coax?

-Brian

- Alone, your receiver won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would,
- either.
-
- * *As a complex, however, you're going to have not one mismatch, but
- two. One at the output of the Wellbrook loop, and one at the input
of
- the antenna interface. This may result in standing waves on the
- transmission line which, in turn may result in irregularities in
- performance.
-
- * *With a reasonably well designed receiver, you'll likely not
notice
- any losses in practical listening. And unless you are working at the
- very limits of performance on signals very far down in the noise and
- doing A/B tests of one coax over another, you'll not detect the
- performance irregularities.
-

DPM,

Then it becomes a Practical Implementation and CBA type Problem.
CBA = Cost Benefit Analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-benefit_analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implementation

Cost of RG58/RG8 Coax Cable -versus- Cost of RG6 Quad-Shield
Coax Cable with a 75-to-50 Ohm Matching Transformer at each
end.

Starting with the Concept of a 9:1 Matching Transformer for General
Broad-Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application with 30 Turns (9-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same
Ferrite Core Material :

We now need a Matching Transformer to take the Antenna and Radios
SO-239 Jack/Plugs {BNC Connector Optional} -to- the 75 Ohm Coax
Cable with an F-Connector {BNC Connector Optional} .

The 50 Ohm 10 Turns (1-Side) should be understood.

Getting to the 75 Ohm (X-Side) should be simple Math :
75 / 50 = 1.5
Square Root of 1.5 = 1.225
Therefore the 75 Ohm (X-Side) would have 12 Turns.

A 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer would have
12 Turns (1.5-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same Ferrite
Core Material -as- 9:1 Matching Transformer for General Broad
Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application.

Anyone Else Have Any Ideas : On a Building Your Own {DIY}
a 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -


The Next Question Becomes : At What Cost ?

* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers
commercial available ? - a Ready Made Item ? Price ?

* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers a
Low Cost "Built-it-Yourself" Item ? - DIY Price ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -

DPM - I go back to your first statement : "Alone, your receiver
won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would, either."


IMHO - For the vast majority of Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
Practical Implementation Says : Just Do It ! - Use the RG6 Coax
Cable -and- enjoy listening to your radios - iane ~ RHF
.




Why bother with all that? I've used RG6 coax for decades without any
issues. A 1.5 to 1 SWR is nothing to worry about at all.
This is just being anal.

BDK

On Dec 31, 7:21*am, BDK wrote:
In article 43a532e0-63d5-4ae1-b27a-72085c8bbbf8
@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...





On Dec 30, 9:37*pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
Brian wrote:
I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
a similar 50 ohm coax?

-Brian

- *Alone, your receiver won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would,
- either.
-
- * *As a complex, however, you're going to have not one mismatch, but
- two. One at the output of the Wellbrook loop, and one at the input
of
- the antenna interface. This may result in standing waves on the
- transmission line which, in turn may result in irregularities in
- performance.
-
- * *With a reasonably well designed receiver, you'll likely not
notice
- any losses in practical listening. And unless you are working at the
- very limits of performance on signals very far down in the noise and
- doing A/B tests of one coax over another, you'll not detect the
- performance irregularities.
-

DPM,

Then it becomes a Practical Implementation and CBA type Problem.
CBA = Cost Benefit Analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-benefit_analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implementation

Cost of RG58/RG8 Coax Cable -versus- Cost of RG6 Quad-Shield
Coax Cable with a 75-to-50 Ohm Matching Transformer at each
end.

Starting with the Concept of a 9:1 Matching Transformer for General
Broad-Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application with 30 Turns (9-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same
Ferrite Core Material :

We now need a Matching Transformer to take the Antenna and Radios
SO-239 Jack/Plugs {BNC Connector Optional} -to- the 75 Ohm Coax
Cable with an F-Connector {BNC Connector Optional} .

The 50 Ohm 10 Turns (1-Side) should be understood.

Getting to the 75 Ohm (X-Side) should be simple Math :
75 / 50 = 1.5
Square Root of 1.5 = 1.225
Therefore the 75 Ohm (X-Side) would have 12 Turns.

A 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer would have
12 Turns (1.5-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same Ferrite
Core Material -as- 9:1 Matching Transformer for General Broad
Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application.

Anyone Else Have Any Ideas : On a Building Your Own {DIY}
a 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -

The Next Question Becomes : At What Cost ?

* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers
commercial available ? - a Ready Made Item ? Price ?

* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers a
Low Cost "Built-it-Yourself" Item ? - DIY Price ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -

DPM - I go back to your first statement : "Alone, your receiver
won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would, either."

- - IMHO - For the vast majority of Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
- - Practical Implementation Says : Just Do It ! - Use the RG6 Coax
- - Cable -and- enjoy listening to your radios - iane ~ RHF
- - *.

- Why bother with all that? I've used RG6 coax for decades without
- any issues. A 1.5 to 1 SWR is nothing to worry about at all.
-
- This is just being anal.
-
- BDK
-

BDK - That I Am, and . . . Retentive Too ! ~ RHF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentive

-butt- Then Again I Did Also Write :
IMHO - For the vast majority of Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
Practical Implementation Says : Just Do It ! - Use the RG6 Coax
Cable -and- enjoy listening to your radios - iane ~ RHF

RHF wrote:

snip

Extra Protection* for the Buried Coax Cable can be obtained
by using Half-Inch (1/2") Black Polyethylene Drip Water Tubing
{Hose} as an added Layer of Protection for Buried Coax Cable
against damage from Plants, Tree Roots and Animals.

I have coax running through 1 1/2" PVC buried at 2 feet but
be advised that you must provide a means of draining condensation
or include desiccants or provide dry air flow to avoid water
in your cables. In my case, I periodically blow out the pipe
with compressed air and also have a 1 inch per foot grade to
encourage drainage to one end where the water can then be
extracted (blown out).

Regards,

Michael

On Dec 31, 9:17*am, msg wrote:
RHF wrote:

snip



Extra Protection* for the Buried Coax Cable can be obtained
by using Half-Inch (1/2") Black Polyethylene Drip Water Tubing
{Hose} as an added Layer of Protection for Buried Coax Cable
against damage from Plants, Tree Roots and Animals.

I have coax running through 1 1/2" PVC buried at 2 feet but
be advised that you must provide a means of draining condensation
or include desiccants or provide dry air flow to avoid water
in your cables. *In my case, I periodically blow out the pipe
with compressed air and also have a 1 inch per foot grade to
encourage drainage to one end where the water can then be
extracted (blown out).

Regards,

Michael

MSG - Good Advise. ~ RHF

RHF wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:37 pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
Brian wrote:
I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
a similar 50 ohm coax?
-Brian
- Alone, your receiver won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would,
- either.
-
- As a complex, however, you're going to have not one mismatch, but
- two. One at the output of the Wellbrook loop, and one at the input
of
- the antenna interface. This may result in standing waves on the
- transmission line which, in turn may result in irregularities in
- performance.
-
- With a reasonably well designed receiver, you'll likely not
notice
- any losses in practical listening. And unless you are working at the
- very limits of performance on signals very far down in the noise and
- doing A/B tests of one coax over another, you'll not detect the
- performance irregularities.
-

DPM,

Then it becomes a Practical Implementation and CBA type Problem.
CBA = Cost Benefit Analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-benefit_analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implementation

Cost of RG58/RG8 Coax Cable -versus- Cost of RG6 Quad-Shield
Coax Cable with a 75-to-50 Ohm Matching Transformer at each
end.

Starting with the Concept of a 9:1 Matching Transformer for General
Broad-Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application with 30 Turns (9-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same
Ferrite Core Material :

We now need a Matching Transformer to take the Antenna and Radios
SO-239 Jack/Plugs {BNC Connector Optional} -to- the 75 Ohm Coax
Cable with an F-Connector {BNC Connector Optional} .

The 50 Ohm 10 Turns (1-Side) should be understood.

Getting to the 75 Ohm (X-Side) should be simple Math :
75 / 50 = 1.5
Square Root of 1.5 = 1.225
Therefore the 75 Ohm (X-Side) would have 12 Turns.

A 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer would have
12 Turns (1.5-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same Ferrite
Core Material -as- 9:1 Matching Transformer for General Broad
Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application.

Anyone Else Have Any Ideas : On a Building Your Own {DIY}
a 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -


The Next Question Becomes : At What Cost ?

* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers
commercial available ? - a Ready Made Item ? Price ?

* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers a
Low Cost "Built-it-Yourself" Item ? - DIY Price ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -

DPM - I go back to your first statement : "Alone, your receiver
won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would, either."


IMHO - For the vast majority of Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
Practical Implementation Says : Just Do It ! - Use the RG6 Coax
Cable -and- enjoy listening to your radios - iane ~ RHF
.



Which was precisely my point.

On Dec 31, 10:06*am, D Peter Maus wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:37 pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
Brian wrote:
I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
a similar 50 ohm coax?
-Brian
- *Alone, your receiver won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would,
- either.
-
- * *As a complex, however, you're going to have not one mismatch, but
- two. One at the output of the Wellbrook loop, and one at the input
of
- the antenna interface. This may result in standing waves on the
- transmission line which, in turn may result in irregularities in
- performance.
-
- * *With a reasonably well designed receiver, you'll likely not
notice
- any losses in practical listening. And unless you are working at the
- very limits of performance on signals very far down in the noise and
- doing A/B tests of one coax over another, you'll not detect the
- performance irregularities.
-

DPM,

Then it becomes a Practical Implementation and CBA type Problem.
CBA = Cost Benefit Analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-benefit_analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implementation

Cost of RG58/RG8 Coax Cable -versus- Cost of RG6 Quad-Shield
Coax Cable with a 75-to-50 Ohm Matching Transformer at each
end.

Starting with the Concept of a 9:1 Matching Transformer for General
Broad-Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application with 30 Turns (9-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same
Ferrite Core Material :

We now need a Matching Transformer to take the Antenna and Radios
SO-239 Jack/Plugs {BNC Connector Optional} -to- the 75 Ohm Coax
Cable with an F-Connector {BNC Connector Optional} .

The 50 Ohm 10 Turns (1-Side) should be understood.

Getting to the 75 Ohm (X-Side) should be simple Math :
75 / 50 = 1.5
Square Root of 1.5 = 1.225
Therefore the 75 Ohm (X-Side) would have 12 Turns.

A 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer would have
12 Turns (1.5-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same Ferrite
Core Material -as- 9:1 Matching Transformer for General Broad
Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application.

Anyone Else Have Any Ideas : On a Building Your Own {DIY}
a 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -

The Next Question Becomes : At What Cost ?

* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers
commercial available ? - a Ready Made Item ? Price ?

* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers a
Low Cost "Built-it-Yourself" Item ? - DIY Price ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -
-
- - - DPM - I go back to your first statement : "Alone, your receiver
- - - won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would, either."
- -
- - IMHO - For the vast majority of Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
- - Practical Implementation Says : Just Do It ! - Use the RG6 Coax
- - Cable -and- enjoy listening to your radios - iane ~ RHF
- - *.

- Which was precisely my point.

PDM - A Point Well Taken ) - ettp ~ RHF

RHF wrote:
On Dec 31, 9:17 am, msg wrote:
RHF wrote:

snip



Extra Protection* for the Buried Coax Cable can be obtained
by using Half-Inch (1/2") Black Polyethylene Drip Water Tubing
{Hose} as an added Layer of Protection for Buried Coax Cable
against damage from Plants, Tree Roots and Animals.
I have coax running through 1 1/2" PVC buried at 2 feet but
be advised that you must provide a means of draining condensation
or include desiccants or provide dry air flow to avoid water
in your cables. In my case, I periodically blow out the pipe
with compressed air and also have a 1 inch per foot grade to
encourage drainage to one end where the water can then be
extracted (blown out).

Regards,

Michael

MSG - Good Advise. ~ RHF
.

Belden makes a Direct Burial RG-8X, 7808 I think. Times Microwave also
has LMR-240DB. Good luck buying a couple hundred feet.