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Minimum gauge for groud...
"Michael" wrote in message ... Hiya... Hiya... Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. We have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into the ground. I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and connect the ground strap. I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100' length of coax. If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. Then I can test it out Saturday night. If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. I'm glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. That antenna is currently laying on my roof in the shape of a sigma. I plan to leave it as is. I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken. I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. The radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to be about 75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron radiator... or a chicken. I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch to go between antennas and my two radios. The new properly grounded inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios and all antennas. Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ??? Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress... Mike D |
Minimum gauge for groud...
Michael wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message ... Hiya... Hiya... Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. We have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into the ground. I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and connect the ground strap. I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100' length of coax. If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. Then I can test it out Saturday night. If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. I'm glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. That antenna is currently laying on my roof in the shape of a sigma. I plan to leave it as is. I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken. I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. The radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to be about 75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron radiator... or a chicken. I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch to go between antennas and my two radios. The new properly grounded inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios and all antennas. Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ??? Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress... Mike D Ground the switch. |
Minimum gauge for groud...
"Dave" wrote in message ... Michael wrote: "Michael" wrote in message ... Hiya... Hiya... Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. We have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into the ground. I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and connect the ground strap. I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100' length of coax. If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. Then I can test it out Saturday night. If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. I'm glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. That antenna is currently laying on my roof in the shape of a sigma. I plan to leave it as is. I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken. I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. The radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to be about 75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron radiator... or a chicken. I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch to go between antennas and my two radios. The new properly grounded inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios and all antennas. Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ??? Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress... Mike D Ground the switch. To what ??? Given that the switch will already be connected to the PL-259 connection of the well grounded sloping L antenna's shielded coax, hooking up another wire to the switch from the outside ground rod will be redundant, no ??? The best I can do is put a ground strap from the switch to an iron radiator in the shack. Think that will be any help ??? Michael |
Minimum gauge for groud...
Michael wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message ... Michael wrote: "Michael" wrote in message ... Hiya... Hiya... Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. We have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into the ground. I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and connect the ground strap. I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100' length of coax. If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. Then I can test it out Saturday night. If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. I'm glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. That antenna is currently laying on my roof in the shape of a sigma. I plan to leave it as is. I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken. I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. The radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to be about 75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron radiator... or a chicken. I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch to go between antennas and my two radios. The new properly grounded inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios and all antennas. Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ??? Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress... Mike D Ground the switch. To what ??? Given that the switch will already be connected to the PL-259 connection of the well grounded sloping L antenna's shielded coax, hooking up another wire to the switch from the outside ground rod will be redundant, no ??? The best I can do is put a ground strap from the switch to an iron radiator in the shack. Think that will be any help ??? Michael Yes. Lightning can induce voltage onto the cable shields that will either pass through your radios or find another path to ground. A radiator is usually a very nice ground. |
Minimum gauge for groud...
"Dave" wrote in message m... Michael wrote: "Dave" wrote in message ... Michael wrote: "Michael" wrote in message ... Hiya... Hiya... Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. We have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into the ground. I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and connect the ground strap. I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100' length of coax. If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. Then I can test it out Saturday night. If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. I'm glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. That antenna is currently laying on my roof in the shape of a sigma. I plan to leave it as is. I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken. I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. The radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to be about 75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron radiator... or a chicken. I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch to go between antennas and my two radios. The new properly grounded inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios and all antennas. Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ??? Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress... Mike D Ground the switch. To what ??? Given that the switch will already be connected to the PL-259 connection of the well grounded sloping L antenna's shielded coax, hooking up another wire to the switch from the outside ground rod will be redundant, no ??? The best I can do is put a ground strap from the switch to an iron radiator in the shack. Think that will be any help ??? Michael Yes. Lightning can induce voltage onto the cable shields that will either pass through your radios or find another path to ground. A radiator is usually a very nice ground. Will do. Thanx :-) Michael |
Minimum gauge for groud...
A bunch of years ago, I bought eight copper plated, whatever plated they
are? eight foot long ground steel rods at the Goodwill store, dirt cheep.Last year, I gave one of my auld buddies five of them, for free.((Ronnie, you never know when you might need to hacksaw off a piece of rod for something)) He told me,,, you dont need to use a big hammer,,, just hold it between your fingers and bump it up and down in the dirt. cuhulin |
Minimum gauge for groud...
On Apr 17, 2:21*pm, "Michael" wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message ... Hiya... Hiya... Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. *We have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into the ground. *I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and connect the ground strap. *I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100' length of coax. *If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. *Then I can test it out Saturday night. *If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. * I'm glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. *That antenna is currently laying on my roof in the shape of a sigma. *I plan to leave it as is. I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken. I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. *The radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to be about *75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron radiator... or a chicken. *I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch to go between antennas and my two radios. *The new properly grounded inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios and all antennas. *Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ??? Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress... Mike D Michael, In the location where you plan on sticking your Ground Rod : Take the time today to dig down about a Foot Deep and a Foot around {Hole} and Fill the Hole with Water Today, Friday and Saturday {Soak the Ground}. Pounding the Ground Rod into the Soil should be a little easier. Stop pounding the Rod into the Soil when you have about 6"~8" above the normal Soil level left to do. Fill the Whole with Soil and Tamp and the Soil Down {Walk-On-It}. Pound the Rod a little further into the ground and leave about 2"~4" of it above the Soil Level. READ - Make Your Own 'Special' Ground Rod Soil Mixture http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...b69b219da2de33 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...549154294a4d9b hope this helps - iane ~ RHF |
Minimum gauge for groud...
"RHF" wrote in message ... On Apr 17, 2:21 pm, "Michael" wrote: "Michael" wrote in message ... Hiya... Hiya... Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. We have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into the ground. I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and connect the ground strap. I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100' length of coax. If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. Then I can test it out Saturday night. If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. I'm glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. That antenna is currently laying on my roof in the shape of a sigma. I plan to leave it as is. I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken. I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. The radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to be about 75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron radiator... or a chicken. I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch to go between antennas and my two radios. The new properly grounded inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios and all antennas. Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ??? Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress... Mike D Michael, In the location where you plan on sticking your Ground Rod : Take the time today to dig down about a Foot Deep and a Foot around {Hole} and Fill the Hole with Water Today, Friday and Saturday {Soak the Ground}. Pounding the Ground Rod into the Soil should be a little easier. Stop pounding the Rod into the Soil when you have about 6"~8" above the normal Soil level left to do. Fill the Whole with Soil and Tamp and the Soil Down {Walk-On-It}. Pound the Rod a little further into the ground and leave about 2"~4" of it above the Soil Level. Thank you. I was just wondering how much of the rod to leave above the ground. I read a few articles that say no more then 4" is idea. Is it OK if the clam that holds the strap on the rod is above the burry line ??? I want to be able to see that is still attached every now and then :-) Michael |
Minimum gauge for groud...
In article ,
"Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. Michael Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Minimum gauge for groud...
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. Michael Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Michael |
Minimum gauge for groud...
www.devilfinder.com How to build a loop antenna for shortwave radio
The dead chickens wont help, cook them and eat them. cuhulin |
Minimum gauge for groud...
In article ,
"Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. The ICE BALUN is really an UNUN in this case. Unbalanced antenna to Unbalanced transmission line. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Minimum gauge for groud...
|
Minimum gauge for groud...
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. The ICE BALUN is really an UNUN in this case. Unbalanced antenna to Unbalanced transmission line. For the inverted L, what tap on the the ICE-180 should I use ??? 300, 450, 600 or 800 Michael |
Minimum gauge for groud...
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. You know... That is probably why my ill conceived long wire was so noisy. It got a lot of signal, but a lot of noise too. I'm betting the the Inverted L with it's own ground will now be pretty decent as far as noise goes. As for the radio, I'm going to ground it in the shack to a radiator. Or, i can forgoe that and ground the antenna/receiver switch to the radiator instead. Michael |
Minimum gauge for groud...
Michael wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. The ICE BALUN is really an UNUN in this case. Unbalanced antenna to Unbalanced transmission line. For the inverted L, what tap on the the ICE-180 should I use ??? 300, 450, 600 or 800 Off the top of my pointed head, if you'd want to convert the wire to 50 Ohms I'd go with the 450 Ohm tap. However, not knowing the true design of the ICE-180, it may be to your benefit to experiment with the other taps. In fact, with most any particular design, whether it be an antenna or a matching transformer/balun, it always pays to experiment, because your particular location/circumstances might be different from that of others. dxAce Michigan USA Michael |
Minimum gauge for groud...
In article ,
"Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message et. .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. The ICE BALUN is really an UNUN in this case. Unbalanced antenna to Unbalanced transmission line. For the inverted L, what tap on the the ICE-180 should I use ??? 300, 450, 600 or 800 I would expect the lowest value to work the best. You could easily experiment with this setting. In addition I would try a direct connection to the coax. If that works the best then I would make a 1:1 toroid transformer for it. Here the antenna and ground would be connected to one winding and the coax to the other winding with no direct connection between the two windings. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Minimum gauge for groud...
In article ,
"Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message et. .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. You know... That is probably why my ill conceived long wire was so noisy. It got a lot of signal, but a lot of noise too. I'm betting the the Inverted L with it's own ground will now be pretty decent as far as noise goes. That's the theory. As for the radio, I'm going to ground it in the shack to a radiator. Or, i can forgoe that and ground the antenna/receiver switch to the radiator instead. The bast you can do for the radio if you have modern 3 wire outlets is to get a filtered power conditioning strip to plug the radio into. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Minimum gauge for groud...
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message et. .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. You know... That is probably why my ill conceived long wire was so noisy. It got a lot of signal, but a lot of noise too. I'm betting the the Inverted L with it's own ground will now be pretty decent as far as noise goes. That's the theory. As for the radio, I'm going to ground it in the shack to a radiator. Or, i can forgoe that and ground the antenna/receiver switch to the radiator instead. The bast you can do for the radio if you have modern 3 wire outlets is to get a filtered power conditioning strip to plug the radio into. Can you send me a link to such a stip ??? Telamon Ventura, California |
Minimum gauge for groud...
In article ,
"Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message et. .. In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message y.n et. .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. You know... That is probably why my ill conceived long wire was so noisy. It got a lot of signal, but a lot of noise too. I'm betting the the Inverted L with it's own ground will now be pretty decent as far as noise goes. That's the theory. As for the radio, I'm going to ground it in the shack to a radiator. Or, i can forgoe that and ground the antenna/receiver switch to the radiator instead. The bast you can do for the radio if you have modern 3 wire outlets is to get a filtered power conditioning strip to plug the radio into. Can you send me a link to such a stip ??? This is what I use. http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=99 -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Minimum gauge for groud...
RHF wrote:
hope this helps - iane ~ RHF I would think step 1 should be to make sure you're not pounding a steel rod through a sewer pipe or into your 240V power line. |
Minimum gauge for groud...
Telamon wrote:
Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. http://www.pa0sim.nl/Antenna%20commo...0impedance.htm |
Minimum gauge for groud...
Michael wrote:
I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Michael How about a Soviet active? http://www.naval.com/vpa.htm ;-) |
SWL -Newbies- The Ground Rod is First and Formost for ElectricalSafety and it can also Help to Improve your Radio Reception.
On Apr 18, 10:49*am, msg wrote:
wrote: A bunch of years ago, I bought eight copper plated, whatever plated they are? eight foot long ground steel rods at the Goodwill store, dirt cheep.Last year, I gave one of my auld buddies five of them, for free.((Ronnie, you never know when you might need to hacksaw off a piece of rod for something)) He told me,,, you dont need to use a big hammer,,, just hold it between your fingers and bump it up and down in the dirt. - - You might have soft soils, - but in my area the clay is thick, - deep and often hard as rock. - - Michael - Michael & MSG, The Ground Rod is First and Formost for Electrical Safety and it can also Help to Improve your Radio Reception. NEC Compliant Ground Electrode Systems http://www.transorbelectrical.com/pq...ntGndRodR8.pdf You say that you have a Six Foot (6') Brass Ground Rod. Most people buy and use the more common Eight Foot (8') Copper-Clad Steel Ground Rods that are sold in just about every Hardware Store because they meet NEC Requirements. http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...ductId=1402217 Installing Ground Rods the Easy Way http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=16 Grounding Electrodes http://www.galvanelectrical.com/electrodes.asp Why Copper Ground Rods? http://www.smeter.net/daily-facts/1/fact18.php Ground Rod Electrodes - What You Need to Know http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/06_b/lund.html 13 Common Misconceptions of Good Grounding Practices http://www.galvanelectrical.com/commandments.asp Secondarily understand Grounding in RF Environments -by- William D. Chesney [N8SA] http://www.hamuniverse.com/grounding.html Antenna Ground Rod - Does it Help ? http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=21 GROUND RODS - THE HARD SOIL FACTS : OK so you have Hard Clay Soil - Then you have more Hard Work ahead for you to do over a several Days. Usually you can start by taking a Post Hole Digger and going down Two Feet or more on Day # 1 Day # 2 go down another Foot to 3 Feet. Day # 3 go down another Foot to 4 Feet. Day # 4 go down another Foot to 5 Feet. Day # 5 go down another Foot to 6 Feet. Note - Each Day : Check for Water Seepage and Water Build-up in the Hole * Dry - No Water - Bad * Several Inches of Water - Good FWIW - Most Post Hole Diggers will make a 6"~9" Hole. Next - Buy some Yard Soil 2 Large Bags Plus 2 Bags of Cat/Kitty Litter {Bentonite} Two 4 Lb. Packages of Epson Salt [Magnesium Sulfate} One Pound Package of Copper Sulfate {Copper Sulfate} One Pound Baking Soda {Sodium Bicarbonate} One Pound Salt {Sodium Chloride} Take Half the Volumes of the above items and Mix them all 'together' and Fill the Hole. Scoop the Mix into the Hole add some Water to Soak wait and Hour and then Tamp the Top of the Mix with a 2"x4"x8'. -IF- The Hole is not filled then take the some or all of the remaining Volmes of the above Items and Mix them all 'together' and Fill the Hole some more up to about 6 Inches from the ground's Surface. Add some Water to Soak wait and Hour and then Tamp the Top of the Mix with a 2"x4"x8'. POUND - Your Ground Rod into the Center of the Filled Ground Rod Hole. Note - Save the remaining Mixture in a Plastic Bag or Bucket for future use and Topping-Off of the Hole as needed. ? WHY ? - Make Your Own 'Special' Ground Rod Soil Mixture http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...b69b219da2de33 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...549154294a4d9b Ground Radials and Counterpoises ? http://www.sgcworld.com/radialstechnote.html http://www.antennex.com/shack/Dec06/cps.html -IF- Possible a Single Ground Radial connected to the Ground Rod and acting as a Counterpoise : That is placed directly under a Horizontal-Wire or Inverted "L" Antenna can help greatly in improving the RF Performance of the Antenna System. http://www.bencher.com/pdfs/00803ZZV.pdf http://www.cebik.com/gp/cp-th.html hope this helps iane ~ RHF {pomkia} |
Active MF-HF-FM Receiving Antenna VPA 30
RHF wrote:
- How about a Soviet active? - - http://www.naval.com/vpa.htm - - ;-) - Says/Looks to be Designed for Shipboard Use : Covers AM : LW + MW + SW : 100 kHz ~ 30 MHz Plus FM : VHF/UHF : 68 MHz ~ 110 MHz Active MF-HF-FM Receiving Antenna VPA 30 -by- Naval Electronics, Inc. -USA- http://www.naval.com/vpa.htm 33.5" Vertical Antenna Element by 3/8" Diameter 41.3" Long/Tall 3.3" Base Diameter 15 VDC @ 125 mA ? VPA : Vertical Polarization Antenna ? Voltage Probe Antenna ? . http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/0328.html |
Minimum gauge for groud...
Michael wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. The ICE BALUN is really an UNUN in this case. Unbalanced antenna to Unbalanced transmission line. For the inverted L, what tap on the the ICE-180 should I use ??? 300, 450, 600 or 800 Michael I would try the 450 or 600. That seems to be the typical impedance range of an inverted-L. Or you can try listening to various frequency bands on the radio while someone changes the taps on the ICE. That's another advantage of having the balun near the ground. |
Minimum gauge for groud...
Michael wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message m... RHF wrote: hope this helps - iane ~ RHF I would think step 1 should be to make sure you're not pounding a steel rod through a sewer pipe or into your 240V power line. Oh... No problem.... I don't have a steel rod. I'll be pounding a brass rod through utility conduits. Michael The most common ground rods that you would find at the hardware or electrical store are copper clad steel. Be sure to solder the ground wire to the rod, not just a clamp. You may have to use a propane torch to get enough heat for the soldering. |
SWL -Newbies- The Ground Rod is First and Formost for ElectricalSafety and it can also Help to Improve your Radio Reception.
Sanjaya wrote:
"RHF" wrote snip Installing Ground Rods the Easy Way http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=16 The link above contains this quote: "At RF frequencies it is almost pointless to expect a ground rod like this to do much good; Only a system of radial wires will help (This will be proven in a later article on this site). For the sake of argument, however, let's assume the ground rod will help. Unlike lightning which can and will arc between two conductors, we need a low ohmic connection for RF antenna currents. Thus only a wire soldered or brazed to the ground rod makes sense." Is he saying a ground rod won't improver reception? Ideally you want the most conductive surface area you can get in the ground. That's why more ground rods are better than one, particularly for transmitting purposes. But one rod is usually enough for receiving if the ground has average conductivity. In a dry area like the desert, it may well require many horizontal radial rods or even copper sheet metal buried in the ground to get a decent RF ground. |
Minimum gauge for groud...
In article
, RHF wrote: On Apr 18, 4:09*pm, "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message .. . In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "Michael" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message . net. .. Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for an antenna anyway. What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry. People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from. Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire. Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to operate. I already have a di-pole. *A 102' G5RV on my roof. *I'm building a second antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being up there for three years. *I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something that can make use of it, like an inverted L. *So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. *Under 50 bucks total. *Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot ground rod ??? *I always thought the ground here in this area had great conductivity. *That is why there are so many MW transmitters here. You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to 6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay. You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors with noise makers. BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. *Is isn't so good below of above that. *My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. *Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. *I have no idea why. *The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, a poor way to do it. *I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a ground rod in the earth. *The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. Don't ask me how, but it worked. Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is the important consideration not the diameter. You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to be put in the ground. There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection. You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated with electrical noise from other devices. The ICE BALUN is really an UNUN in this case. Unbalanced antenna to Unbalanced transmission line. - For the inverted L, what tap on the the ICE-180 - should I use ??? 300, 450, 600 or 800 - - Michael - Michael, As others have suggested try each Tap one-at-a-time to find out which is best for you; your conditions; and your set-up. Do this over several Days during different times of the Day. Record your Observations and then Review your Notes to decide which Tap gives you the Best Over-All Performance. I don't that is necessary. What is important is note the differences on a stable signal over several frequencies of interest for a tap. Time of day is not important. Chances are one signal will suffice for finding the best tap. Chance are in will be the lowest one anyway. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
SWL -Newbies- The Ground Rod is First and Formost for Electrical Safety and it can also Help to Improve your Radio Reception.
In article xgCOj.73$XY1.27@trndny03, Drakefan
wrote: Sanjaya wrote: "RHF" wrote snip Installing Ground Rods the Easy Way http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=16 The link above contains this quote: "At RF frequencies it is almost pointless to expect a ground rod like this to do much good; Only a system of radial wires will help (This will be proven in a later article on this site). For the sake of argument, however, let's assume the ground rod will help. Unlike lightning which can and will arc between two conductors, we need a low ohmic connection for RF antenna currents. Thus only a wire soldered or brazed to the ground rod makes sense." Is he saying a ground rod won't improver reception? Ideally you want the most conductive surface area you can get in the ground. That's why more ground rods are better than one, particularly for transmitting purposes. But one rod is usually enough for receiving if the ground has average conductivity. In a dry area like the desert, it may well require many horizontal radial rods or even copper sheet metal buried in the ground to get a decent RF ground. And that's why radials are better than ground rods unless you live in a swamp. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Minimum gauge for groud...
On Apr 18, 6:14*am, "Michael" wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message ... Michael wrote: "Michael" wrote in message ... Hiya... Hiya... Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. We have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into the ground. *I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and connect the ground strap. *I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100' length of coax. *If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. *Then I can test it out Saturday night. *If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. * I'm glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. *That antenna is currently laying on myroofin the shape of a sigma. *I plan to leave it as is. I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken. I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. *The radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to be about *75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron radiator... or a chicken. *I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch to go between antennas and my two radios. *The new properly grounded inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios and all antennas. *Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ??? Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress... Mike D Ground the switch. To what ??? Given that the switch will already be connected to the PL-259 connection of the well grounded sloping L antenna's shielded coax, hooking up another wire to the switch from the outside ground rod will be redundant, no ??? *The best I can do is put a ground strap from the switch to an iron radiator in the shack. Think that will be any help ??? Michael- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Michael, Install a 'separate' 8-foot Copper-Clad Steel Ground Rod very close to your Radio Shack for your Radio Shack's Ground. Use a very Heavy AWG Wire from the Ground Rod to your Radios and Receivers. iane ~ RHF |
Minimum gauge for groud...
In article
, RHF wrote: SNIP Michael, Install a 'separate' 8-foot Copper-Clad Steel Ground Rod very close to your Radio Shack for your Radio Shack's Ground. Use a very Heavy AWG Wire from the Ground Rod to your Radios and Receivers. Go sit on a ground rod news group retard. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Michael [MD1966] : How is the New Inverted "L" Antenna Going ?
On Apr 18, 2:32*pm, "Michael" wrote:
* * * Three Star Snip * * * - I already have a di-pole. *A 102' G5RV on my roof. * - I'm building a second antenna because my current - 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after being - up there for three years. For many Shortwave Radio Listners (SWLs) 3-Years is a fair amount of time for an SWL Antenna to be in the Air. Usually at least once a Year you should Inspect all the Connections {Electro-&-Mechanical} and the Antenna Wire Element(s) and Rigging Ropes. - I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off of that mess, - so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something - that can make use of it, like an inverted L. That is a good 'practical' idea. The ICE 180 will get a little dirty and weathered on the outside but inside it should be As-Good-as-New. -*So far I just spent money on a new 6' ground rod and a - 20 buck spool of antenna wire. *Under 50 bucks total. That is a reasonable investment in another Build-Your-Own {DIY} Shortwave Radio Listners (SWLs) Antenna. -*Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with - a six foot ground rod ??? * It should work very good if you 'prepare' the Hole and the Soil before you install the Ground Rod. - I always thought the ground here in this area had - great conductivity. *That is why there are so many - MW transmitters here. Telamon got your's {Michaels} and MSG's Replies mixed-up. Michael [ md1966 @ opton line .net ] ~ Michael MSG ] ~ Michael Both of you at times Sign your Replies "Michael" http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...7619564b561e99 "You might have soft soils, but in my area the clay is thick, deep and often hard as rock. Michael" Your 6-Foot Brass Ground Rod should do OK. - BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to - 10 megahertz. *Is isn't so good below of above that. The G5RV sounds like : It does what it is Designed to do. -*My 150' long wire was great for anything above 10 megahertz. Glad to hear that. -*Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4 megahertz. Nice to hear that too. -*I have no idea why. Me neither. -*The way I had that one grounded was, I'm sure, - a poor way to do it. *I have a 12 gauge wire going - from the radio, up on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's - ground, and then back down the house to a ground - rod in the earth. * You Do What : You Can Do. - The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar. - Don't ask me how, but it worked. What Works : WORKS ! - Michael Michael [MD1966] : How is the New Inverted "L" Antenna Going ? ~ RHF |
SWL -Newbies- Going On-the-Horizontal With Your Grounding Point
On Apr 20, 12:28*am, Drakefan wrote:
- - Ideally you want the most conductive surface area you - can get in the ground. That's why more ground rods are - better than one, particularly for transmitting purposes. - But one rod is usually enough for receiving if the ground - has average conductivity. In a dry area like the desert, - it may well require many horizontal radial rods or even - copper sheet metal buried in the ground to get a decent - RF ground. -was- SWL -Newbies- The Ground Rod is First and Formost for Electrical Safety and it can also Help to Improve your Radio Reception. For One and All, Putting in a new Lawn and/or Garden Sprinkler Watering System : Plan Your Ground Rod and Grounding Radials System Too. http://www.sprinkler.com/files/lit226w.pdf Going On-the-Horizontal With Your Grounding Point : Place one or two 10 Foot pieces of One Inch Copper Pipe [1 1/8" OD] at the bottom of the Trenches. But first put a 3/8" Layer of Kitty {Cat} Litter in the bottom of the Trenches. Solder a Heavy Duty # 4 AWG Bare Copper Wire to the Copper Pipe before you put it in the Ground. Take 6-Feet of the Wire and Fold it at the Center around the Copper Pipe. Wrap the Wire about Four Times around the Pipe so that you have two equal Tag-Ends about 2+ Feet long. Solder the Wrapped Wire completely around the Pipe. Lay the Pipe into the bottom of the Trench. Use a piece of PVC Pipe to protect the Ground Wires from the Pipe to 4" above the Ground Surface. Solder and Clamp your Ground Wires to these two Wires. -Or- Place a Bundle of Bare # 8 AWG Copper Wires in the Trenches : 14 Feet & 12 feet & 10 Feet & 8 Feet & 6 feet {Adds-up-to 50 Feet of Wire in the ground} With all the Wires Bundled 'together' at the Above Ground "Connection" End and Tappering off as they extend out. Place a Hose at the "Connection" End and another Hose Clamp 6" apart of the first. Solder the Wires together between the Hose Clamps. x=========================== x======================= x=================== x=============== x=========== Cut a Large 1 1/2" PVC pipe long enough to go from the bottom of the Trench to about 6" above the ground. Remove the Hose Clamps and place the Soldered Wires into and through the Pipe so that the Solder Wire section is sticking out. re-install the Hose Clamps. Bend the Wires 90* at the bottom of the Pipe and place the Wires at the bottom of the Trench with the Pipe Sticking out of the ground. Spread the Individual Wires out at the bottom of the Trench so that they are about an Inch apart. NOTE - A second one of these Wire Bundles can be place in the Ground laying in the opposite direction of at 90* with the "Connetion" Ends co-located to form a Below-the-Ground bi-poled {DualPath} Ground Array. TIP : Dig the Trenches a few Inches to a Foot Deeper for a better Grounding System. =PS= Since the Ground is under the Sprinklers and the Ground is always wet or at least damp this arangement usually results in a very good Grounding System. as always stay well grounded - iane ~ RHF {pomkia} |
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