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Trucker antenna
I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way
or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? |
Trucker antenna
If fed in phase and spaced correctly, there could be gain to the front and
to the back with a decreased propogation to the sides. This is usually desirable if traveling on a mostly straight stretch of highway. I think the spacing is a little too far apart for use on most cars. "Douglas W Adair" wrote in message ... I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? |
Trucker antenna
On Nov 30, 4:40*pm, "Hal Rosser" wrote:
If fed in phase and spaced correctly, there could be gain to the front and to the back with a decreased propogation to the sides. This is usually desirable if traveling on a mostly straight stretch of highway. I think the spacing is a little too far apart for use on most cars. "Douglas W Adair" wrote in ... I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I figure this is for an 18 wheeler on CB. In that case the dual antennas make the patern more omni. Back in the 70s I belonged to a CB club and we did some test of the effects of auto body styles on radiation patterns. We discovered body stle and mounting location were as important if not more so than the antena you were using. An 18 wheeler with a single antenna mounted on a mirror has a really ragged radiation pattern. Two antennas makes it a lot less ragged, still a far way from being omni-directional. Jimmie |
Trucker antenna
I always wondered whether a short/loaded magbase antenna on the trailer
roof (so it doesnt hit bridges etc) would work better than a mirror mount... How much roof to bridge etc clearance is there normally? I would have a thought a DDRR would have been good too but I read something recently that mentioned performance has never been as good as expected. Thoughts? Cheers Bob JIMMIE wrote: An 18 wheeler with a single antenna mounted on a mirror has a really ragged radiation pattern. Two antennas makes it a lot less ragged, still a far way from being omni-directional. |
Trucker antenna
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 08:05:31 -0500, "Douglas W Adair"
wrote: I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? Not much on a big truck. Since most of the usable cophased signal is blocked by the cab and trailer. I've found a single antenna works just as good. What hurts the system the most, is the factory installed crap. They generally use the smaller 75ohm cable and use splice after splice to make it work. I generally get my own cable, bypass their stuff. One thing to remember in cophasing, cable length DOES make a difference. If they are not equal, things will be out of whack. Unlike in a single antenna where length is not an issue. Oh and for all you loudmouths out there, the only reason they say you must have x amount of feet, is to sell the damn cable. In reality, the shorter the cable, the better off you are. Have you held an FCC license for radio work? I have. |
Trucker antenna
On Nov 30, 10:02*pm, richard wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 08:05:31 -0500, "Douglas W Adair" wrote: I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? Not much on a big truck. Since most of the usable cophased signal is blocked by the cab and trailer. I've found a single antenna works just as good. What hurts the system the most, is the factory installed crap. They generally use the smaller 75ohm cable and use splice after splice to make it work. I generally get my own cable, bypass their stuff. Since the feed point impedance of most of those antennas is really way less than 50 ohms 75 ohm cable may not be the best choice to make a phaasing harness. Most of the time 50 ohm cable works better |
Trucker antenna
I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way
or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? If fed in phase and spaced correctly, there could be gain to the front and to the back with a decreased propogation to the sides. This is usually desirable if traveling on a mostly straight stretch of highway. I think the spacing is a little too far apart for use on most cars. I believe you're correct. This is a "broadside array" configuration. Its gain over a single radiator rises roughly linearly (measured in dB over a single radiator) up to separations of around 5/8 wavelength. A separation of 1/2 wavelength gives around 4 dB gain over a single radiator and a very nice clean pattern (deep null to the sides) - this is the spacing most frequently described in the literature (e.g. Kraus, Terman) for broadside arrays. Gain maxes out at just under 5 dB at a 5/8-wavelength spacing (at the cost of a small side-lobe). [Figures are from the ARRL Antenna Book of a few years ago] Whether it's worth doing for a vehicle-mobile system is another question. You need more than .4 wavelengths of separation to get 3 dB of gain (half a nominal S-unit) - at 11-meter frequencies that's around 14 feet of separation, which I think not many vehicles will allow. Perhaps if you're driving a "wide load" transporter truck? At 6 feet of separation between antennas you'd have only around .2 wavelength, which yields less than 1 dB of gain over a single radiator. Hardly seems cost-effective. It might make more sense for 2-meter operation... but as most 2-meter mobile seems to be repeater-based, you really want omni rather than shaped-beam-down-the-road most of the time. There's also the matching issue. Each radiator in the array will have a feedpoint impedance different than what would have if used alone. You'll have to take this into account when designing the phasing harness, and you may need an impedance-matching network at the combining point to establish the 50-ohm load that your transceiver expects. If you don't match properly your transceiver won't see the load it expects, and may not deliver full rated power into the load - you could easily lose more signal strength this way than the array will gain back. If you do match properly, there will be some amount of loss in the matching network. There ain't no free lunch, alas. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
Trucker antenna
"Dave Platt" wrote in message
... I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? If fed in phase and spaced correctly, there could be gain to the front and to the back with a decreased propogation to the sides. This is usually desirable if traveling on a mostly straight stretch of highway. I think the spacing is a little too far apart for use on most cars. I believe you're correct. This is a "broadside array" configuration. Its gain over a single radiator rises roughly linearly (measured in dB over a single radiator) up to separations of around 5/8 wavelength. A separation of 1/2 wavelength gives around 4 dB gain over a single radiator and a very nice clean pattern (deep null to the sides) - this is the spacing most frequently described in the literature (e.g. Kraus, Terman) for broadside arrays. Gain maxes out at just under 5 dB at a 5/8-wavelength spacing (at the cost of a small side-lobe). [Figures are from the ARRL Antenna Book of a few years ago] Whether it's worth doing for a vehicle-mobile system is another question. You need more than .4 wavelengths of separation to get 3 dB of gain (half a nominal S-unit) - at 11-meter frequencies that's around 14 feet of separation, which I think not many vehicles will allow. Perhaps if you're driving a "wide load" transporter truck? At 6 feet of separation between antennas you'd have only around .2 wavelength, which yields less than 1 dB of gain over a single radiator. Hardly seems cost-effective. It might make more sense for 2-meter operation... but as most 2-meter mobile seems to be repeater-based, you really want omni rather than shaped-beam-down-the-road most of the time. There's also the matching issue. Each radiator in the array will have a feedpoint impedance different than what would have if used alone. You'll have to take this into account when designing the phasing harness, and you may need an impedance-matching network at the combining point to establish the 50-ohm load that your transceiver expects. If you don't match properly your transceiver won't see the load it expects, and may not deliver full rated power into the load - you could easily lose more signal strength this way than the array will gain back. If you do match properly, there will be some amount of loss in the matching network. There ain't no free lunch, alas. Wow, Richard. This guy seems 7 ****loads smarter than you. Wonder if he ever "held an FCC license for radio work"? -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! -- Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 |
Trucker antenna
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in message m... This guy seems 7 ****loads smarter than you. That coming from someone that lost the internet in his truck because he didn't know when to stop? ROTFLMAO "****in Sprint shut me down without warning" http://groups.google.com/group/misc....0ccb6f15cac165 |
Trucker antenna
"Douglas W Adair" wrote in
: I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? If you are going to co-phase get a comercially produced co-phase harness. Mount the anteneas 54" apart for cb band. |
Trucker antenna
"Top" wrote in message .. . If you are going to co-phase get a comercially produced co-phase harness. Mount the anteneas 54" apart for cb band. Please list your references |
Trucker antenna
richard wrote in
: On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 04:37:39 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" wrote: "Dave Platt" wrote in message ... I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? If fed in phase and spaced correctly, there could be gain to the front and to the back with a decreased propogation to the sides. This is usually desirable if traveling on a mostly straight stretch of highway. I think the spacing is a little too far apart for use on most cars. I believe you're correct. This is a "broadside array" configuration. Its gain over a single radiator rises roughly linearly (measured in dB over a single radiator) up to separations of around 5/8 wavelength. A separation of 1/2 wavelength gives around 4 dB gain over a single radiator and a very nice clean pattern (deep null to the sides) - this is the spacing most frequently described in the literature (e.g. Kraus, Terman) for broadside arrays. Gain maxes out at just under 5 dB at a 5/8-wavelength spacing (at the cost of a small side-lobe). [Figures are from the ARRL Antenna Book of a few years ago] Whether it's worth doing for a vehicle-mobile system is another question. You need more than .4 wavelengths of separation to get 3 dB of gain (half a nominal S-unit) - at 11-meter frequencies that's around 14 feet of separation, which I think not many vehicles will allow. Perhaps if you're driving a "wide load" transporter truck? At 6 feet of separation between antennas you'd have only around .2 wavelength, which yields less than 1 dB of gain over a single radiator. Hardly seems cost-effective. It might make more sense for 2-meter operation... but as most 2-meter mobile seems to be repeater-based, you really want omni rather than shaped-beam-down-the-road most of the time. There's also the matching issue. Each radiator in the array will have a feedpoint impedance different than what would have if used alone. You'll have to take this into account when designing the phasing harness, and you may need an impedance-matching network at the combining point to establish the 50-ohm load that your transceiver expects. If you don't match properly your transceiver won't see the load it expects, and may not deliver full rated power into the load - you could easily lose more signal strength this way than the array will gain back. If you do match properly, there will be some amount of loss in the matching network. There ain't no free lunch, alas. Wow, Richard. This guy seems 7 ****loads smarter than you. Wonder if he ever "held an FCC license for radio work"? If i had said it, you would have a field day accusing me of all kinds of ****. Since the late 60's i've been working with CB and have done all kinds of experiments with antennas on a car. You name it, I had it. As he pointed out, the big problem with CB is, you need way much more space than a vehicle offers to truly get any usable gain from cophasing. Do you know the wavelength of 11 meters? if 27 feet, the normal height of base antenna, is equal to 5/8 or 1/4 wave, then what is 8/8 or 100%? Well over 100 feet. So to get the true proportion for proper cophasing, the road aint wide enough and neither is the vehicle. The only reason truckers run two antennas is because it looks cooler. The effectiveness of cophasing in a truck is screwed by the factory installed crap. You still didn't give any useful information. No surpise since you have none. For an average of the cb band running 1/4 wave the antennas should be spaced 54 inches apart. Use a commercially produced cophase harness if you can find it. Make sure you match the SWR and you will out do any other mobile off the front or rear. Toop |
Trucker antenna
"NightRogue" wrote in
news:_GUYk.404979$TT4.56720@attbi_s22: "The Honorable Dr. Rocky Roads Presiding Judge" wrote in message ... "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in message m... This guy seems 7 ****loads smarter than you. That coming from someone that lost the internet in his truck because he didn't know when to stop? ROTFLMAO And this from the coward who forgot to set her brakes and blamed it on someone who was not only NOT there, but was in a different state posting on here, and she calls everyone else and "idiot"?? That's funny as hell. How many days has he been a rookie now? |
Trucker antenna
Top wrote:
"NightRogue" wrote in news:_GUYk.404979$TT4.56720@attbi_s22: "The Honorable Dr. Rocky Roads Presiding Judge" wrote in message ... "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in message m... This guy seems 7 ****loads smarter than you. That coming from someone that lost the internet in his truck because he didn't know when to stop? ROTFLMAO And this from the coward who forgot to set her brakes and blamed it on someone who was not only NOT there, but was in a different state posting on here, and she calls everyone else and "idiot"?? That's funny as hell. How many days has he been a rookie now? trolls |
Trucker antenna
"Douglas W Adair" wrote in message ... I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? the real gain in that arrangement is in the thickness of the sales man's wallet. |
Trucker antenna
Dave wrote:
"Douglas W Adair" wrote in message ... I like them two at a time--co-phased. Is there any gain to be had that way or am I just skin pipe dreaming at the petro? the real gain in that arrangement is in the thickness of the sales man's wallet. They certainly look better just like dual stacks look better than a single stack. |
Trucker antenna
In article ,
Top wrote: Cophase being omindirectional? You need to do some more reading before you try to correct anything. The directionality of a broadside array (with the two radiators fed exactly in phase) depends very strongly on the separation between the two antennas. For separations of 1/4 wavelength or less, there's very little directionality - the pattern is very close to omnidirectional. Every dual-antenna truck setup I've seen has been a side-by-side mounting (e.g. one on the left mirror and one on the right), and the harness feeds them both in-phase. I've been assuming that this was what was being meant by "co-phase". If so, I stand by my statement that two CB antennas, fed in phase through a co-phase harness (i.e. no phase difference between the two), and separated by only 54 inches, produces a nearly-omnidirectional signal. The two antennas need to be further apart, before the pattern becomes significantly directional. Take a look at the NEC plots at http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=20 to see... the 4.5-foot separation model produces a pattern which is almost circular. There is little gain towards the front and back, and very little loss off to the sides. These plots seem to jibe well with other references I've read (Terman, Kraus, and the graphs in the ARRL Antenna Book). The other alternative is an end-fire array, with the antennas fed signals of opposite phase - with these then there can be significant directionality even with close spacing of the antennas. In a truck-antenna system, this would require placing the antennas one in front of the other, separating them by several feet, and inverting the phase of the signal sent to one of the two antennas (perhaps by having the feed coax to one antenna be 1/2-wavelength longer than the other). You could get several dB of gain this way... but the close spacing will cause the antenna feedpoint impedance to drop a lot, and some form of matching network will certainly be required to keep the radio happy and develop maximum power from the transmitter. The two bottom plots on the site I mentioned above, show the effect of feeding the antennas with signals of different phase. In these examples, the pattern is being skewed off to one side - the difference in feedline length is converting the antenna from a broadside array to an end-fire array. With the right amount of phase shift, you end up with a cardioid pattern, with a broad lobe in one direction and a very deep null in the other. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
Trucker antenna
"Dave Platt" wrote in message
... In article , Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: You still didn't give any useful information. No surpise since you have none. For an average of the cb band running 1/4 wave the antennas should be spaced 54 inches apart. Use a commercially produced cophase harness if you can find it. Make sure you match the SWR and you will out do any other mobile off the front or rear. Top Thanks Top! I think that Top's calculations (and recommendations) are a bit off? I'm a "single antenna" guy myself. I think, in a truck, at least, that "big radio" is synonymous with "big wris****ch". :-) We can't mount the antennae high or center, because the 13', 6" height of the truck is where the low bridges start. Also, most tractors have this horrific system that intergrates AM/FM with the CB coax. A CB stick on the left mirror and an AM/FM on the right, and a splitter in the coax, so I always run my own coax seperately. And I have a cellular antenna on one side, any way, for dual plane signal boost, and it has to be 8" (I think) away from other sticks. But hhhhhere's a question for the braintrust: I'm after a (mobile) VHF radio that's common to northern (i.e., the Yukon, and Northwest Territories) Canadian truckers- who don't monitor CB bands. (info:) http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=171741 I'm sure, as a sine wave challenged layman, that I can't use the same antenna and coax as my CB? CB has an 11-meter wavelength. There are just over 39 inches in a meter. Hence, the wavelength is around 430 inches. A 54-inch separation is only .12 wavelength. From the chart in the ARRL Antenna Book, it looks as if you'll get less than .5 dB of directional gain, compared with a single radiator of the same type and size. That's less than one tenth (!) of a nominal S-unit. You'd be very hard put to be able to detect this small of a difference in practice - it'll be less than the amount of signal variation you'll encounter due to reflections from nearby objects. In terms of getting yourself a directional-gain benefit, I think a co-phased two-radiator broadside array with a 54-inch separation is essentially useless on CB frequencies. There just isn't enough gain to matter. Now, as somebody else suggested, using such an array might get you a more consistent near-omnidirectional pattern than a single radiator would deliver, if your antennas are mounted less than optimally (e.g. on your sideview mirror post). Using two co-phase antennas might be worthwhile for this reason, even if you don't get a significant amount of directional gain. I suspect you'd get more bang for your buck by simply mounting a single antenna in a better location (e.g. roof mount) and paying attention to making the antenna's grounding to the chassis/groundplane as direct and solid as possible. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! -- Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 |
Trucker antenna
richard wrote:
Do you know the wavelength of 11 meters? This is a joke, right? |
Trucker antenna
On 2 Dec 2008 06:15:20 GMT, Top wrote:
(Dave Platt) wrote in : In article , Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: I suspect you'd get more bang for your buck by simply mounting a single antenna in a better location (e.g. roof mount) and paying attention to making the antenna's grounding to the chassis/groundplane as direct and solid as possible. Cophase being omindirectional? You need to do some more reading before you try to correct anything. IF the cophased antennas are less than 1/4 wave apart, there is virtually no change. |
Trucker antenna
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:55:02 -0800, (Dave Platt)
wrote: In article , Top wrote: Cophase being omindirectional? You need to do some more reading before you try to correct anything. The directionality of a broadside array (with the two radiators fed exactly in phase) depends very strongly on the separation between the two antennas. For separations of 1/4 wavelength or less, there's very little directionality - the pattern is very close to omnidirectional. Every dual-antenna truck setup I've seen has been a side-by-side mounting (e.g. one on the left mirror and one on the right), and the harness feeds them both in-phase. I've been assuming that this was what was being meant by "co-phase". If so, I stand by my statement that two CB antennas, fed in phase through a co-phase harness (i.e. no phase difference between the two), and separated by only 54 inches, produces a nearly-omnidirectional signal. The two antennas need to be further apart, before the pattern becomes significantly directional. Take a look at the NEC plots at http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=20 to see... the 4.5-foot separation model produces a pattern which is almost circular. There is little gain towards the front and back, and very little loss off to the sides. These plots seem to jibe well with other references I've read (Terman, Kraus, and the graphs in the ARRL Antenna Book). The other alternative is an end-fire array, with the antennas fed signals of opposite phase - with these then there can be significant directionality even with close spacing of the antennas. In a truck-antenna system, this would require placing the antennas one in front of the other, separating them by several feet, and inverting the phase of the signal sent to one of the two antennas (perhaps by having the feed coax to one antenna be 1/2-wavelength longer than the other). You could get several dB of gain this way... but the close spacing will cause the antenna feedpoint impedance to drop a lot, and some form of matching network will certainly be required to keep the radio happy and develop maximum power from the transmitter. The two bottom plots on the site I mentioned above, show the effect of feeding the antennas with signals of different phase. In these examples, the pattern is being skewed off to one side - the difference in feedline length is converting the antenna from a broadside array to an end-fire array. With the right amount of phase shift, you end up with a cardioid pattern, with a broad lobe in one direction and a very deep null in the other. Ya gots to understand with whom you are trying to communicate. "Top" is the master know it all who has absolutely no background in electronics. He just drives a truck and thinks that gives him the knowledge. You've heard of "Billy Big Rigger"? You just met the dude. Top just goes along with what other truckers have said over the years. I have the actual working experience to back me up with. The only thing Top knows about CB is how to yack on it. |
Trucker antenna
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 03:17:22 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote: "Dave Platt" wrote in message ... In article , Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: You still didn't give any useful information. No surpise since you have none. For an average of the cb band running 1/4 wave the antennas should be spaced 54 inches apart. Use a commercially produced cophase harness if you can find it. Make sure you match the SWR and you will out do any other mobile off the front or rear. Top Thanks Top! I think that Top's calculations (and recommendations) are a bit off? I'm a "single antenna" guy myself. I think, in a truck, at least, that "big radio" is synonymous with "big wris****ch". :-) We can't mount the antennae high or center, because the 13', 6" height of the truck is where the low bridges start. Also, most tractors have this horrific system that intergrates AM/FM with the CB coax. A CB stick on the left mirror and an AM/FM on the right, and a splitter in the coax, so I always run my own coax seperately. And I have a cellular antenna on one side, any way, for dual plane signal boost, and it has to be 8" (I think) away from other sticks. But hhhhhere's a question for the braintrust: I'm after a (mobile) VHF radio that's common to northern (i.e., the Yukon, and Northwest Territories) Canadian truckers- who don't monitor CB bands. (info:) http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=171741 I'm sure, as a sine wave challenged layman, that I can't use the same antenna and coax as my CB? No dumb****. As I have tried to explain to you once before, DO NOT buy one of those radios. If you get caught with it in the USA alone, and are transmitting on it, no license? Bye bye. Pay the $10,000 fine lose the radio. Every trucking company in Canada that uses them has a Canadian license to operate them with. They are not like CB's. They are commercial business radios. I trust maybe now you'll listen to one of the radio experts for a change. Would one of you in the radio groups who knows Canadian radios please explain this to the jerk? He thinks that because he's a trucker, he can have any damn radio he wants in his truck. |
Trucker antenna
In article ,
Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: But hhhhhere's a question for the braintrust: I'm after a (mobile) VHF radio that's common to northern (i.e., the Yukon, and Northwest Territories) Canadian truckers- who don't monitor CB bands. (info:) http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=171741 I'm sure, as a sine wave challenged layman, that I can't use the same antenna and coax as my CB? In principle, you could combine the CB output (27 MHz) with the VHF radio output (up above the 2-meter band) using a diplexer, and feed the result down a single coax. At the antenna end, you'd have a couple of choices. You can use another diplexer to split out the HF and VHF signals, and feed them to two separate antennas. Or, you might be able to find a single CB-type antenna which is also capable of matching up well enough on these VHF frequencies to work tolerably well. The chances are very poor that a randomly-selected CB antenna would give you a tolerable SWR on the 160-or-so-MHz VHF band... and if it did, there's no telling what its vertical radiation pattern would look like. An antenna intended for these two bands would probably have to be custom designed - I can think of a couple of possible ways to do it. Such a dualband antenna would almost certainly be a compromise antenna on both bands - it wouldn't work as well as separate antennas designed for best operation on a single band each. Commercial HF/VHF diplexers run somewhere around $80, last time I looked. You'd probably find it less expensive in the end to just run a second coax and put up a second (VHF-only) whip antenna. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
Trucker antenna
What if you ran a wire between those two truck antennas? Only
saying,,,,, cuhulin |
Trucker antenna
uuuuhhhh..... you're wrong as usual Bulli****.
Top was Military and got his commo expertise there. IIRC he's not a truck driver at all. |
Trucker antenna
"Zeke" wrote in message ...
uuuuhhhh..... you're wrong as usual Bulli****. Top was career Military and got his commo expertise there. IIRC he's not a truck driver at all. Exactly, a matter of public record here that Richard has seen several times previously, and just forgot. Here's Richard's esteemed military career (and how he was caught lying about it): http://bolo_bullis.tripod.com/ What's amazing is that Richard and I were just discussing what a total, absolute and complete asshole he makes himself look like every time he tries to make himself look tough or smart at anyone's expense. Of course he can't hear a word of that, and immediately starts this. Richard, who is also a career pedophile and damn proud of it, has had, and will always have, the same problem, and that's that he just can't keep his festering gob shut. What amazes me is that he's skunked a dozen usenet groups over the years, is internationally know as a scumbag, but still sees the world through his own rose colored glasses, like we might have forgotten his previous and extensive bombast and flummery. Funny, or sad? -- Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 |
Trucker antenna
"richard" wrote in message
... On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 03:17:22 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" wrote: "Dave Platt" wrote in message ... In article , Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: You still didn't give any useful information. No surpise since you have none. For an average of the cb band running 1/4 wave the antennas should be spaced 54 inches apart. Use a commercially produced cophase harness if you can find it. Make sure you match the SWR and you will out do any other mobile off the front or rear. Top Thanks Top! I think that Top's calculations (and recommendations) are a bit off? I'm a "single antenna" guy myself. I think, in a truck, at least, that "big radio" is synonymous with "big wris****ch". :-) We can't mount the antennae high or center, because the 13', 6" height of the truck is where the low bridges start. Also, most tractors have this horrific system that intergrates AM/FM with the CB coax. A CB stick on the left mirror and an AM/FM on the right, and a splitter in the coax, so I always run my own coax seperately. And I have a cellular antenna on one side, any way, for dual plane signal boost, and it has to be 8" (I think) away from other sticks. But hhhhhere's a question for the braintrust: I'm after a (mobile) VHF radio that's common to northern (i.e., the Yukon, and Northwest Territories) Canadian truckers- who don't monitor CB bands. (info:) http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=171741 I'm sure, as a sine wave challenged layman, that I can't use the same antenna and coax as my CB? No dumb****. As I have tried to explain to you once before, DO NOT buy one of those radios. **** you, dickhead. If you get caught with it in the USA alone, and are transmitting on it, no license? Bye bye. Pay the $10,000 fine lose the radio. Sure. What's the fine for my 250 watt kicker? Don't forget to add that in. Every trucking company in Canada that uses them has a Canadian license to operate them with. They are not like CB's. They are commercial business radios. I trust maybe now you'll listen to one of the radio experts for a change. I am. They said the radios were available, the private frequencies, not the radios, are licensed, and the freqs I'm interested are available to the public. And the license, if you want one, is easy and cheap. Were your mother and father related -before- the wedding? Inquiring minds want to know. Because you have an uncanny resemblence to the Deliverance banjo boy. Would one of you in the radio groups who knows Canadian radios please explain this to the jerk? He thinks that because he's a trucker, he can have any damn radio he wants in his truck. Jesus, are you stupid. Try reading the thread that I cited, that flatly proves you wrong. And as I already stated, and you apparently forgot, the radio would be for emergencies only, and that I would have no reason to use it in the states. Your memory is just shot, ****head, have you ever met a guy named John Francis? Or been to Australia? I find it amazing that you'd be afraid of an FCC fine, that I have a one-in-ten-million chance of -ever- receiving, while you publically brag about being in possession of 45,000 child pornography pictures. Amazing. Simply amazing. -- Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 |
Trucker antenna
"Dave Platt" wrote in message
... In article , Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: But hhhhhere's a question for the braintrust: I'm after a (mobile) VHF radio that's common to northern (i.e., the Yukon, and Northwest Territories) Canadian truckers- who don't monitor CB bands. (info:) http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=171741 I'm sure, as a sine wave challenged layman, that I can't use the same antenna and coax as my CB? In principle, you could combine the CB output (27 MHz) with the VHF radio output (up above the 2-meter band) using a diplexer, and feed the result down a single coax. At the antenna end, you'd have a couple of choices. You can use another diplexer to split out the HF and VHF signals, and feed them to two separate antennas. Or, you might be able to find a single CB-type antenna which is also capable of matching up well enough on these VHF frequencies to work tolerably well. The chances are very poor that a randomly-selected CB antenna would give you a tolerable SWR on the 160-or-so-MHz VHF band... and if it did, there's no telling what its vertical radiation pattern would look like. An antenna intended for these two bands would probably have to be custom designed - I can think of a couple of possible ways to do it. Such a dualband antenna would almost certainly be a compromise antenna on both bands - it wouldn't work as well as separate antennas designed for best operation on a single band each. Commercial HF/VHF diplexers run somewhere around $80, last time I looked. You'd probably find it less expensive in the end to just run a second coax and put up a second (VHF-only) whip antenna. Thanks! That's the kind of helpful and intelligent response I was looking for. The radio would be for emergency communications anyway, to trucks in the -immediate- vicinity. The 4 "LADD" frequencies are used by the scale houses up there, as well. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! -- Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 |
Trucker antenna
"Dave Platt" wrote in message
... In article , Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: The radio would be for emergency communications anyway, to trucks in the -immediate- vicinity. The 4 "LADD" frequencies are used by the scale houses up there, as well. I'd offer a "metoo" for some advice you got from another poster... do NOT operate unlicensed. Don't even install a radio for which you don't have whatever license is required by the law in the areas in which you will be driving. Thanks, but don't put too much stock in the idiot. I don't chat on the radio, regardless of how he tries to project his own activities on others, and from what I can discern so far, no license is required. I notice Richard the expert hasn't provided any such information, either. Possibly you're not aware of this, but unlicensed 10 meter radios with in-line amps are quite common in our trucks, and openly sold (although one major truckstop chain was, I believe, fined after several warnings) everywhere. I'll be happy to get a Canadian license if I can, but, I don't need or intend to use the licensed business frequencies. So, if as I understand, -that's- what I need a license for, I have no need for one. From the cite: "The Canadian equivalent of the FCC has a site in which it post Northwind Trucking as 165.840 MHZ.. Now in Canada they do not partition the VHF High band into commercial 151-162 and Government 162-174 like we do.. they are all over the place. Also They provide unlicensed LADD channels which are used alot by trucks Ladd 1 -154.1 Ladd 2 -158.94 Ladd 3- 154.325 and Ladd 4 173.370.. Again they are all over the place with stuff up there. Most of the action on Inuvik is on VHF. Nothing appears to be on 30-50 MHZ and the Hospital and Airport are using UHF." "They provide unlicensed LADD channels which are used alot by trucks" "They provide unlicensed LADD channels which are used alot by trucks" "They provide unlicensed LADD channels which are used alot by trucks" "They provide unlicensed LADD channels which are used alot by trucks" Where I drive is not where you live. http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye87...43959490865794 That radio may mean the difference between freezing to death or not, or, literally, being eaten alive. "Officer, it's only for emergency use" is certainly preferable to that, and, grossly unlikely anyway. I've been through a score of vehicle inspections, with an illegal kicker in -plain sight-, and nobody gives a damn. They're a whole lot more concerned if we have brakes, and are sober. Contrary to Stupid Richard's rantings, I've never seen an FCC roadblock in 35 years of driving. Planning to use the "Officer, it's only for emergency use" response, when challenged, could be a very expensive tactic. You might find out, the hard way, that the local regulatory body takes a "possession is considered proof of intent to use" approach... even if you don't get hit with criminal charges or a civil forfeiture order, you could find that your radios are considered de facto "contraband" and are subject to being seized without warning. Here in the US, unlicensed operation could get you hit with equipment confiscation and a fine of many thousands of dollars. I'm sure that's true. If you want to operate VHF, you should either get a proper license (e.g. for business-band frequencies) or stick to radios which have no legal requirement for a license. For example, here in the U.S., the MURS (multi-use radio service) is a collection of a few VHF frequencies (formerly licensed-business-band) which have been reassigned, and which can be used without a license as long as the radio you use is properly certificated for this purpose. I don't know if Canada has a MURS-equivalent, or if any of the truckers up there use it. Check the regulations before you buy. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! -- Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 |
Trucker antenna
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in message m... Thanks, but don't put too much stock in the idiot. You sure put a lot of stock into the idiots Dave Ruff, Shawn and realitytrasher and the lies you post prove that asshole. So why are you calling anybody else an idiot when you put so much stock into Idiots just like Dave Ruff, Shawn realitytrasher and John/nightruanch do? More at: http://MTT.JusticeGoneWild.com |
Trucker antenna
In article ,
Dave wrote: richard wrote: Do you know the wavelength of 11 meters? This is a joke, right? It's called sarcasm. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Trucker antenna
"richard" wrote in message
... On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:51:28 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" wrote: "Zeke" wrote in message ... uuuuhhhh..... you're wrong as usual Bulli****. Top was career Military and got his commo expertise there. IIRC he's not a truck driver at all. Exactly, a matter of public record here that Richard has seen several times previously, and just forgot. Since this thread is going to groups who do not know me, I will try to clairify the lies here. snicker Here's Richard's esteemed military career (and how he was caught lying about it): http://bolo_bullis.tripod.com/ First, that is an exact copy of my dd214 acquired under the FOIA. It states I served. Unlike the lies that promulgate from it that says I did not. 2nd, why is the word before "discharge" blacked out? No one wonders "why". You've had three or four decades to get a new one, and you don't, and we -know- why. That was not done by the US goverment. It was done to make it look more damning. I never claimed to be anything I was not. I said I never got beyond boot camp and my highest rank was E1. The dd214 confirms that. I said I had enlisted for the ASA but never got involved with it. While others claimed I had claimed to be super secret spy or in special forces. Most of those lies were all created by "Just Taylor". What's amazing is that Richard and I were just discussing what a total, absolute and complete asshole he makes himself look like every time he tries to make himself look tough or smart at anyone's expense. I'm not saying I am smarter than many, in this thread I have been trying to point out that a lot of information given in this thread is totally wrong. As have others. Why don't you pick on them, asshole. But whether you're right or wrong, Richard, you can't state anything without a demeaning attack on others, usually embarrassingly incorrect, like you just did to Top. It's because of your angst and poor self-esteem, probably because of the inbreeding. And not man enough to correct yourself, from your flagrantly idiotic rant about Top being "billy bigrigger" (when he doesn't drive truck), a term you use frequently, that describes, well, you and Roger, more than anyone else here. If Top was wrong, you could have -easily- made your point without being abrasive, as others did, yet you attacked. Which is why -you're- always attacked. Because you DESERVE it, Richard. You actively -earn- the animosity of others, because you CAN'T KEEP YOUR ****ING MOUTH SHUT. Of course he can't hear a word of that, and immediately starts this. Richard, who is also a career pedophile and damn proud of it, has had, and will always have, the same problem, and that's that he just can't keep his festering gob shut. Pedophile being defined here No, Richard. No. Not "pedophile being defined" however it's convenient to you. Pedophile -has- a definition, and I've posted it many times, with your grossly inapropriate posting history. It's a matter of -permanent- record, Richard, and you can't spin puppy **** into butterscotch pudding. as a person who others claim is a pedophile because the damning word sticks to more feeble brains than any other word. No one has ever proven, in 10 years, that I am, have been, or currently am, a true pedophile. It's nothing more than ill words on a screen. What amazes me is that he's skunked a dozen usenet groups over the years, is internationally know as a scumbag, but still sees the world through his own rose colored glasses, like we might have forgotten his previous and extensive bombast and flummery. While ****heads like you keep wanting to let the world know about the past anyway they can. No proof, just a lot of hot air. I just state the facts, -with- the proof. You're the one with the revolving definitions and X-files DD214. You could clear that discharge up -anytime-, and choose to make excuses instead. We -know- why, Richard. Funny, or sad? Sad boy you are If I was any happier, I'd have to be -two- people. and you wore a uniform? Yeah, for an entire enlistment, imagine that. I know that's a foriegn concept to you. God help us all. Worry about yourself, dude. -- Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 |
Trucker antenna
"richard" wrote in message
... On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:29:49 -0800, (Dave Platt) wrote: In article , Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: But hhhhhere's a question for the braintrust: I'm after a (mobile) VHF radio that's common to northern (i.e., the Yukon, and Northwest Territories) Canadian truckers- who don't monitor CB bands. (info:) http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=171741 I'm sure, as a sine wave challenged layman, that I can't use the same antenna and coax as my CB? In principle, you could combine the CB output (27 MHz) with the VHF radio output (up above the 2-meter band) using a diplexer, and feed the result down a single coax. At the antenna end, you'd have a couple of choices. You can use another diplexer to split out the HF and VHF signals, and feed them to two separate antennas. Or, you might be able to find a single CB-type antenna which is also capable of matching up well enough on these VHF frequencies to work tolerably well. The chances are very poor that a randomly-selected CB antenna would give you a tolerable SWR on the 160-or-so-MHz VHF band... and if it did, there's no telling what its vertical radiation pattern would look like. An antenna intended for these two bands would probably have to be custom designed - I can think of a couple of possible ways to do it. Such a dualband antenna would almost certainly be a compromise antenna on both bands - it wouldn't work as well as separate antennas designed for best operation on a single band each. Commercial HF/VHF diplexers run somewhere around $80, last time I looked. You'd probably find it less expensive in the end to just run a second coax and put up a second (VHF-only) whip antenna. Trust me. he has no clues as to what you just said. Not a ****in clue, Richard, and not ashamed to admit it. What ever it is, I can learn it, teach it to myself. I'm not afraid to ask questions, like the one that set you off on this rant, and I'm not afraid to ask for help. It's -easy- when you're a man. This fool wants to run a vhf radio in Canada just to talk to Canadian truckers. That's all in your mind, a baseless lie you repeat with no evidence. I've stated, clearly and concisely, what the radio is for. It's your projection of your own actions that leaves you apoplectic. I'm sure when you're on the radio that you irritate working drivers for miles, till they won't respond to you anymore, and then you key the mike on pathetic country music. Since -you- do that, -everybody- must... He thinks those radios can be bought and used just like a CB. Well, sort of, yes. My CB is illegal too... ;-) And no one gives a -damn-. My 78 Suburban has a ten meter radio and a boat radio in it, neither with a license, for twenty years now. As I have operated radios on 47mhz, held a 2nd class fcc license, I think I know a lot more than he does. No one cares. Still waiting for you, 10 posts later, to provide some actual information instead of the screeching and wailing. -- Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 |
Trucker antenna
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:06:53 -0800, (Dave Platt)
wrote: Planning to use the "Officer, it's only for emergency use" response, when challenged, could be a very expensive tactic. You might find out, the hard way, that the local regulatory body takes a "possession is considered proof of intent to use" approach... even if you don't get hit with criminal charges or a civil forfeiture order, you could find that your radios are considered de facto "contraband" and are subject to being seized without warning. ....That only works under two conditions: 1) The Gestapo Pig is able to recognize when a 2-way radio is anything *other* than a CB Radio. Those Fifes are actually pretty rare these days, and probably less than 2% of them can recognize a 2-Meter rig when they see one. These days, they could care less if you've got a CB in your car because CB is unlicensed. 2) And then there's the issue of "possession with intent". In this case, if they bust you for it, then they have to deal with the FCC. This requires about *nine* different forms to be filled out, and essentially doubles - and in some cases *triples* - the paperwork the poor little Piggies have to process. They don't like paperwork because it takes away from their donut time. ,,,So while there *is* a danger, there isn't anywhere near as much a danger as the Hams would *love* for you to believe. That's part of the deterrent that's necessary to keep the bumbling FCC out of the Hams' own internal politics, and perpetuate the myth that their self-policing wields more power than Uncle Charlie and a pink slip book. OM -- ]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ |
Trucker antenna
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:58:56 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote: Contrary to Stupid Richard's rantings, I've never seen an FCC roadblock in 35 years of driving. ....They actually *tried* that something like four times in three different test locations back in 1976, and while they did bust a lot of truckers for running footwarmers, they had to drop the program when the Carter Misadministration neutered the FCC by slicing their budget to damn near next to nothing - the only smart act Mr. Peanut's reign of idiocy accomplished! By the time the number of CB channels was increased from 23 to 40, the maximum number of FCC field agents was reduced from a max of 100 in some states to a maximum of *two* for each state(*). This occurred at the same time the courts ruled that the FCC didn't have the right to levy fines, and some 14,000 CBers who'd been fined for breaking some of Part 95's more bull**** rules - QSOs longer than 5 minutes, failure to use callsigns, using profanity, talking over the 60-mile limit in areas where the metropolitan region was *over* 60 miles as the crow flies, etc, etc - suddenly found they had their cases overturned and those who paid fines during a specified period were issued refunds and license reinstatements were applicable. (*) I never did get this confirmed, but one report was that Montana and Wyoming had to share one field agent, and he was only a part-time employee! OM -- ]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ |
Trucker antenna
"The Honorable Dr. Rocky Roads Presiding Judge" wrote in message ... "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in message m... Thanks, but don't put too much stock in the idiot. You sure put a lot of stock into the idiots Dave Ruff, Shawn and realitytrasher and the lies you post prove that asshole. So why are you calling anybody else an idiot when you put so much stock into Idiots just like Dave Ruff, Shawn realitytrasher and John/nightruanch do? More at: http://MTT.DogwasherGoneWild.com Quit your crying and get over your loss coward, and just go and buy a new boyfriend doll.. |
Trucker antenna
richard wrote in
: On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:55:02 -0800, (Dave Platt) wrote: In article , Top wrote: Cophase being omindirectional? You need to do some more reading before you try to correct anything. The directionality of a broadside array (with the two radiators fed exactly in phase) depends very strongly on the separation between the two antennas. For separations of 1/4 wavelength or less, there's very little directionality - the pattern is very close to omnidirectional. Every dual-antenna truck setup I've seen has been a side-by-side mounting (e.g. one on the left mirror and one on the right), and the harness feeds them both in-phase. I've been assuming that this was what was being meant by "co-phase". If so, I stand by my statement that two CB antennas, fed in phase through a co-phase harness (i.e. no phase difference between the two), and separated by only 54 inches, produces a nearly-omnidirectional signal. The two antennas need to be further apart, before the pattern becomes significantly directional. Take a look at the NEC plots at http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=20 to see... the 4.5-foot separation model produces a pattern which is almost circular. There is little gain towards the front and back, and very little loss off to the sides. These plots seem to jibe well with other references I've read (Terman, Kraus, and the graphs in the ARRL Antenna Book). The other alternative is an end-fire array, with the antennas fed signals of opposite phase - with these then there can be significant directionality even with close spacing of the antennas. In a truck-antenna system, this would require placing the antennas one in front of the other, separating them by several feet, and inverting the phase of the signal sent to one of the two antennas (perhaps by having the feed coax to one antenna be 1/2-wavelength longer than the other). You could get several dB of gain this way... but the close spacing will cause the antenna feedpoint impedance to drop a lot, and some form of matching network will certainly be required to keep the radio happy and develop maximum power from the transmitter. The two bottom plots on the site I mentioned above, show the effect of feeding the antennas with signals of different phase. In these examples, the pattern is being skewed off to one side - the difference in feedline length is converting the antenna from a broadside array to an end-fire array. With the right amount of phase shift, you end up with a cardioid pattern, with a broad lobe in one direction and a very deep null in the other. Ya gots to understand with whom you are trying to communicate. "Top" is the master know it all who has absolutely no background in electronics. He just drives a truck and thinks that gives him the knowledge. You've heard of "Billy Big Rigger"? You just met the dude. Top just goes along with what other truckers have said over the years. I have the actual working experience to back me up with. The only thing Top knows about CB is how to yack on it. Dave let's agree to our own experiences. Now to Richard You forgot who you are talking to again. Nothing unusual for you to get things wrong. I don't drive a truck unless you are talking about a pickup. As far as electronics backround I was in communications in the Army. I spent a good bit of time in the field in sitiuations where I had no backup so I had to know enough to make things work when they broke. I don't mean simple backpack radios either. Then there was the year I spent teaching radio wave propagation. Another year teaching programming small and meduim size telephone switches. In 2005 (well after I had retired) I spent the year assembling boards to build MRI machines. If you think I have no electronics knowledge then as usual you brain is no bigger than you little toe. |
Trucker antenna
richard wrote in
: On 2 Dec 2008 06:15:20 GMT, Top wrote: (Dave Platt) wrote in : In article , Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick wrote: I suspect you'd get more bang for your buck by simply mounting a single antenna in a better location (e.g. roof mount) and paying attention to making the antenna's grounding to the chassis/groundplane as direct and solid as possible. Cophase being omindirectional? You need to do some more reading before you try to correct anything. IF the cophased antennas are less than 1/4 wave apart, there is virtually no change. I love it when you make an ass of yourself. |
Trucker antenna
Top wrote:
richard wrote: IF the cophased antennas are less than 1/4 wave apart, there is virtually no change. I love it when you make an ass of yourself. The ARRL Antenna Book says that with 1/8WL spacing, one can achieve 4.1 dB gain with a high F/B ratio. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
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