These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict and
limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.

The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.

"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...


These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict and
limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.

The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.


They don't count because these days some bean counter doesn't care. At one
time, they were quite important, and a large number of high power stations
programmed specifically for them. KWJJ and KGA used to have nighttime
programming aimed specifically at coast to coast truckers and sold time to
businesses that catered to them, such as truck stops, oil companies, etc.
WSM still figures in distant listeners for the Grand Ole' Opry. Nearly
every station had someone on their staff that would answer signal reports.

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...


These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict and
limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.

The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.


They don't count because these days some bean counter doesn't care. At
one time, they were quite important, and a large number of high power
stations programmed specifically for them. [/quote]

True. If you look at the ads in Broadcasting Magazine in the 40's, many
talked about mail count from many, many states.

After TV "arrived," meaning the two to three years after the freeze was
lifted, radio at night was barely listened to. So skywave reception (or DXX
reception) became of little use as there were few listeners and fewer
advertisers.

With the advent of Top 40 and rock and roll, a few stations like KOMA and
WKBW and such, in smaller markets but with big night signals, got the teen
audience across large areas. As FM took those listeners and more stations
came on the air, that, too, disappeared.

By the early 70's, there was no use for night skywave in most of America.
After docket 80-90 and with the coming of the Internet, there is totally no
use today.

KWJJ and KGA used to have nighttime
programming aimed specifically at coast to coast truckers and sold time to
businesses that catered to them, such as truck stops, oil companies, etc.

By the late 70's, none of these shows made money.... although stations
continued to carry them since they got good programming on a barter basis.
Most overnight shows didn't take the barter spots in overnight, either. Even
today, to get Coast To Coast you have to run daytime barter spots. Nobody
wants overnight ad time.... even in the big markets.

WSM still figures in distant listeners for the Grand Ole' Opry.

WSM, today, is the the lowest billing of the former 1A and 1B clears. It is
not even in the top 15 locally, with an AM preaching and teaching religious
station outbilling it, even.

Nearly
every station had someone on their staff that would answer signal reports.

That has not been true since the late 60's... even in the early 60's, about
a third of DX reports had to be followed up with a second or third request
to get a verification.

"Bob Dobbs" wrote in message
news:4962f4b8.8756359@chupacabra...
David Eduardo wrote:

After TV "arrived," meaning the two to three years after the freeze was
lifted, radio at night was barely listened to. So skywave reception (or
DXX
reception) became of little use as there were few listeners and fewer
advertisers.

That blatant lie
just goes to illustrate what an uninformed jerk you are

Evening listening, by the end of the 1955, was down to about 1/4 of the
daytime radio listening levels. While there are no national figures, looking
at a variety of local market reports supports this conclusion.

Add in the explosion of new stations in the decade after W.W. II, there was
less reason to listen to non-local stations at any time, and little reason
to listen to them at night.

David Eduardo wrote:


Evening listening, by the end of the 1955, was down to about 1/4 of the
daytime radio listening levels. While there are no national figures,
looking at a variety of local market reports supports this conclusion.

Add in the explosion of new stations in the decade after W.W. II, there
was less reason to listen to non-local stations at any time, and little
reason to listen to them at night.

That's nuts. Everybody routinely listened to whatever came in on their
radios at night, regardless of origin.

Light dimmers, band-splitting, coarse digital tuners, and 4 kHz
ceramic filters destroyed AM.

Don't you think it odd that you and your ilk whined for more stations
back in the '70s, and now that you have them, you whine 'cause nobody
can make any money?

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:


Evening listening, by the end of the 1955, was down to about 1/4 of the
daytime radio listening levels. While there are no national figures,
looking at a variety of local market reports supports this conclusion.

Add in the explosion of new stations in the decade after W.W. II, there
was less reason to listen to non-local stations at any time, and little
reason to listen to them at night.

That's nuts. Everybody routinely listened to whatever came in on their
radios at night, regardless of origin.

No, they did not. When Top 40 began in 1952, it helped move most radio
listening to local radio stations. TV simply killed night listening to radio
over a period of only a few years.

Light dimmers, band-splitting, coarse digital tuners, and 4 kHz ceramic
filters destroyed AM.

No, FM did, once the FCC mandated the end to simulcasting in most cities in
1967.

Don't you think it odd that you and your ilk whined for more stations back
in the '70s, and now that you have them, you whine 'cause nobody can make
any money?

Nobody whined for more stations in the 70's. In fact, the number of viable
stations in each market virtually tripled in the 70's as all the full signal
FMs became competitive. That was disruptive enough to AM and the industry.
Docket 80-90 came at the very end of the 80's, and was a result of the FCC
not people wanting more stations... it was the direct outcome of the Bonita
Springs decision redefining major changes.

"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...


These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict and
limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.

The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.

They never have since the early 50's.

David Eduardo wrote:


"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...



These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict
and limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working
to INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.


The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.


They never have since the early 50's.


What is your understanding of the market coverage for clear channel WCCO 830
during the 1960s and into the mid 1980s? During all of that time, as a listener,
I heard them advertising to a Minnesota state-wide and upper midwest area market
during the day and national spots were common at night. They even promoted their
clear channel status and nationwide focus on each ID. Programming was always
wide-area oriented and rarely was restricted to the Mpls/St.Paul metro. Everyone
over the entire state regarded it as a cherished voice of a people and region,
and the station widely promoted that image with various state-wide awards,
outreach programs, frequent remotes, etc. Its changes in recent decades are
still lamented by older listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any
other clear channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that
was WCCO. Folks of a certain age in our area still wax nostalgic about WGN,
WBBN and others, but none of them held as much importance as WCCO to folks
in our five state area.

Michael

"msg" wrote in message
ernet...
David Eduardo wrote:


"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...



These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict
and limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.


The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.


They never have since the early 50's.


What is your understanding of the market coverage for clear channel WCCO
830
during the 1960s and into the mid 1980s? During all of that time, as a
listener,
I heard them advertising to a Minnesota state-wide and upper midwest area
market
during the day and national spots were common at night.

The daytime coverage is groundwave, not DX.

That a spot be for a national client does not mean it is intended to be
heard nationally on a single station. In fact, on a CBS affiliate like WCCO,
the dead night commercial time was often used to run the network spots that
they had to clear as part of the affiliation agreement. Paid national spots,
with few exceptions, have not been the rule at night on AM's since TV took
over most of the night audience.

They even promoted their
clear channel status and nationwide focus on each ID. Programming was
always
wide-area oriented and rarely was restricted to the Mpls/St.Paul metro.
Everyone
over the entire state regarded it as a cherished voice of a people and
region,
and the station widely promoted that image with various state-wide awards,
outreach programs, frequent remotes, etc.

Again, not DX but normal, groundwave coverage. And, as I said, as each
community got more AMs and new FMs in the 60's, 70's and 80's, the need to
listen to a distant AM was reduced to near nothing.

Today, KTLK FM with a news talk format on FM has more under-55 listeners in
the Mppls. metro than WCCO. In Mamkato, St. Cloud and Rochester, wehre WCCO
used to have double digit shares, it is now not even in the top 15 in the
under-55 age group.... and that listening, such as it is, is almost all
daytime listening, too.

Its changes in recent decades are
still lamented by older listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any
other clear channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that
was WCCO.

Nearly all are or were... WSB, WBZ, KDKA, WTAM, KMOX, KOA, KFI, WBAP, WOAI,
WGN, etc., were enormously influential in the era when for many miles around
there were scant few stations. Today, AM is irrelevant for younger
listeners and there has been such an increase in stations that the need to
listen to distant AMs is fairly limited.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

SNIP

Its changes in recent decades are still lamented by older
listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any other clear
channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that was
WCCO.

Nearly all are or were... WSB, WBZ, KDKA, WTAM, KMOX, KOA, KFI, WBAP,
WOAI, WGN, etc., were enormously influential in the era when for many
miles around there were scant few stations. Today, AM is irrelevant
for younger listeners and there has been such an increase in stations
that the need to listen to distant AMs is fairly limited.

I still do it. I listen to distant stations to hear programs that do
not air on local stations. I listen to KOGO almost every day or night.
Night time I listen to Bay area stations and KOH in Nevada on a regular
basis. For a while KABC was broadcasting that IBOC crap at night making
KOH unlistenable. Thankfully that stopped but I still can't listen to
them around sunset until that IBOC crap gets turned off for the night by
KABC.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California