"msg" wrote in message
ernet...
David Eduardo wrote:


"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...



These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict
and limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.


The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.


They never have since the early 50's.


What is your understanding of the market coverage for clear channel WCCO
830
during the 1960s and into the mid 1980s? During all of that time, as a
listener,
I heard them advertising to a Minnesota state-wide and upper midwest area
market
during the day and national spots were common at night.

The daytime coverage is groundwave, not DX.

That a spot be for a national client does not mean it is intended to be
heard nationally on a single station. In fact, on a CBS affiliate like WCCO,
the dead night commercial time was often used to run the network spots that
they had to clear as part of the affiliation agreement. Paid national spots,
with few exceptions, have not been the rule at night on AM's since TV took
over most of the night audience.

They even promoted their
clear channel status and nationwide focus on each ID. Programming was
always
wide-area oriented and rarely was restricted to the Mpls/St.Paul metro.
Everyone
over the entire state regarded it as a cherished voice of a people and
region,
and the station widely promoted that image with various state-wide awards,
outreach programs, frequent remotes, etc.

Again, not DX but normal, groundwave coverage. And, as I said, as each
community got more AMs and new FMs in the 60's, 70's and 80's, the need to
listen to a distant AM was reduced to near nothing.

Today, KTLK FM with a news talk format on FM has more under-55 listeners in
the Mppls. metro than WCCO. In Mamkato, St. Cloud and Rochester, wehre WCCO
used to have double digit shares, it is now not even in the top 15 in the
under-55 age group.... and that listening, such as it is, is almost all
daytime listening, too.

Its changes in recent decades are
still lamented by older listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any
other clear channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that
was WCCO.

Nearly all are or were... WSB, WBZ, KDKA, WTAM, KMOX, KOA, KFI, WBAP, WOAI,
WGN, etc., were enormously influential in the era when for many miles around
there were scant few stations. Today, AM is irrelevant for younger
listeners and there has been such an increase in stations that the need to
listen to distant AMs is fairly limited.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

SNIP

Its changes in recent decades are still lamented by older
listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any other clear
channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that was
WCCO.

Nearly all are or were... WSB, WBZ, KDKA, WTAM, KMOX, KOA, KFI, WBAP,
WOAI, WGN, etc., were enormously influential in the era when for many
miles around there were scant few stations. Today, AM is irrelevant
for younger listeners and there has been such an increase in stations
that the need to listen to distant AMs is fairly limited.

I still do it. I listen to distant stations to hear programs that do
not air on local stations. I listen to KOGO almost every day or night.
Night time I listen to Bay area stations and KOH in Nevada on a regular
basis. For a while KABC was broadcasting that IBOC crap at night making
KOH unlistenable. Thankfully that stopped but I still can't listen to
them around sunset until that IBOC crap gets turned off for the night by
KABC.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Jan 3, 8:02*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"msg" wrote in message

ernet...



David Eduardo wrote:

"Monty Hall" wrote in message
...

These broadcasters are insane to do things like HD/IBOC to restrict
and limit their already-dwindling audiences. They should be working to
INCREASE their coverage area and listenership; not reduce it.

The only coverage that counts is in their home markets.

DX listeners don't count in the business model.

They never have since the early 50's.

What is your understanding of the market coverage for clear channel WCCO
830
during the 1960s and into the mid 1980s? *During all of that time, as a
listener,
I heard them advertising to a Minnesota state-wide and upper midwest area
market
during the day and national spots were common at night.

The daytime coverage is groundwave, not DX.

That a spot be for a national client does not mean it is intended to be
heard nationally on a single station. In fact, on a CBS affiliate like WCCO,
the dead night commercial time was often used to run the network spots that
they had to clear as part of the affiliation agreement. Paid national spots,
with few exceptions, have not been the rule at night on AM's since TV took
over most of the night audience.

*They even promoted their

clear channel status and nationwide focus on each ID. Programming was
always
wide-area oriented and rarely was restricted to the Mpls/St.Paul metro.
Everyone
over the entire state regarded it as a cherished voice of a people and
region,
and the station widely promoted that image with various state-wide awards,
outreach programs, frequent remotes, etc.

Again, not DX but normal, groundwave coverage. And, as I said, as each
community got more AMs and new FMs in the 60's, 70's and 80's, the need to
listen to a distant AM was reduced to near nothing.

Today, KTLK FM with a news talk format on FM has more under-55 listeners in
the Mppls. metro than WCCO. In Mamkato, St. Cloud and Rochester, wehre WCCO
used to have double digit shares, it is now not even in the top 15 in the
under-55 age group.... and that listening, such as it is, is almost all
daytime listening, too.

Its changes in recent decades are

still lamented by older listeners, and I would appreciate knowing if any
other clear channels were held in the high regard, as an institution, that
was WCCO.

- Nearly all are or were... WSB, WBZ, KDKA, WTAM,
- KMOX, KOA, KFI, WBAP, WOAI, WGN, etc., were
- enormously influential in the era when for many miles
- around there were scant few stations. *Today, AM is
- irrelevant for younger listeners and there has been
- such an increase in stations that the need to listen
- to distant AMs is fairly limited.

Things Have "Changed" in Radio Over the Last 50 Years :
# 1 FM Radio "IS" Now 'Local' Everywhere across the
Nation both Urban, Sub-Urban and Rural.
# 2 Plus the Vast Majority of Public, Educational and
Religious Broadcasting is on FM Radio.
# 3a The Number of FM Radio Stations is Much Greater
that AM Radio Stations.
# 3b The Number of FM Radio Listeners is Much Greater
that AM Radio Stations and they are Younger.
# 3c Most Importantly the Combined Revenues of FM
Radio Stations is Much Greater that AM Radio Stations.
Conclusion : AM Radio is no longer King-of-the-Air-Waves

FCC Data : AM and FM Broadcast Radio Station Totals

From a Year 1968 'base' of AM & FM Radio Stations
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/totals/pdf/19681231.pdf
AM Radio Stations : 4236 = 65%
FM Radio Stations : 1944 = 30%
EDU FM Radio Stations : 362 = 5%
Total Radio Stations : 6542 = 100%

Basically - Two-out-of-Three US Radio Stations
were AM back then.

Here is the latest FCC Data for AM and FM Broadcast
Radio Station Totals Licensed as of 30 June 2008 :
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/totals/bt080630.html
Total AM Radio Stations = 4,778 ~ 34%
Total FM Radio Stations = 6,382 ~ 45%
Total FM {Educational} PBS/NPR Radio Stations = 2,964 ~ 21%
[ Total FM Radio Stations = 9346 ~ 66% ]

TODAY - Two-out-of-Three US Radio Stations
are 'Local' FM Radio Stations.

GRAND TOTAL FOR ALL RADIO STATIONS = 14,124

PLUS - The [Hidden] Numbers :
FM Radio Stations Translators and Boosters = 6095
Low Power FM Radio Stations = 851
Bring the True {Real} Total FM Radio Stations = 16,292
Then the AM Radio Station Total : 4778 ~ 29%

THE REALITY IS - That the True Number Is
Seven-out-of-Ten US Radio Stations are in-fact
'Local' FM Radio Stations.

Presently in the SF Bay Area there are about 80 FM
Radio Stations to Listen-To : While there are only
20 AM Radio Stations on the Air.

Back when I was a Kid in High School the 1960s
I and my friends listened to AM Radio.

Today's Kids in High School Listen to FM Radio; and
their Celfones iPods and MP3 Plays 'may' have an
FM Radio feature -but- No AM Radio at all. You play
your iPod through your FM Radio in a Car.

yes many things have changed in the radio business
over the last 50 Years ~ RHF