Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

I love it - In my area several stations that were transmitting
ibiquity digital junk have turned it off but they continue to have
spots proclaiming “now in crystal clear HD”. Thus leading consumers
to believe that they are hearing their radio station in “crystal clear
HD” – with no hd radio upgrade needed!

Talk about confusion! Good way to promote a product – let them think
they already have it! Struble you’re a genius.

Oh yea – hd radio is exciting! No need to buy one (if they were even
available) because you already have one!

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

On Apr 13, 11:24*am, wrote:
I love it - In my area several stations that were transmitting
ibiquity digital junk have turned it off but they continue to have
spots proclaiming “now in crystal clear HD”. *Thus leading consumers
to believe that they are hearing their radio station in “crystal clear
HD” – with no hd radio upgrade needed!

Talk about confusion! *Good way to promote a product – let them think
they already have it! *Struble you’re a genius.

Oh yea – hd radio is exciting! * No need to buy one (if they were even
available) because you already have one!

The Alliance and their radio partners are to blame for the lack of or
**** poor marketing!
When buying a new car if you ask the sales person about digital radio,
they'll sell you Satellite radio?
When HD units start coming standard in new cars is when the rubber
will hit the road..
consumers won't understand why the receiver flip flops between analog
& digital.
Enough blame can go around for everyone!

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article ,
dave wrote:

wrote:
I love it - In my area several stations that were transmitting
ibiquity digital junk have turned it off but they continue to have
spots proclaiming ³now in crystal clear HD². Thus leading consumers
to believe that they are hearing their radio station in ³crystal clear
HD² * with no hd radio upgrade needed!

Talk about confusion! Good way to promote a product * let them think
they already have it! Struble you¹re a genius.

Oh yea * hd radio is exciting! No need to buy one (if they were even
available) because you already have one!

KFI, always Johnny-on-the-spot, just fired their IBOC up. Resulting in
an annoying wubba-wubba sound whenever one of their sidebands fades a
little (which is several times a minute).

For some reason they sound especially bad on the AR7030+ now.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article 49ea4fad.1607812@chupacabra,
Bob Dobbs wrote:

Telamon wrote:
In article ,
dave wrote:

wrote:
I love it - In my area several stations that were transmitting
ibiquity digital junk have turned it off but they continue to have
spots proclaiming ³now in crystal clear HD². Thus leading consumers
to believe that they are hearing their radio station in ³crystal clear
HD² * with no hd radio upgrade needed!

Talk about confusion! Good way to promote a product * let them think
they already have it! Struble you¹re a genius.

Oh yea * hd radio is exciting! No need to buy one (if they were even
available) because you already have one!

KFI, always Johnny-on-the-spot, just fired their IBOC up. Resulting in
an annoying wubba-wubba sound whenever one of their sidebands fades a
little (which is several times a minute).

For some reason they sound especially bad on the AR7030+ now.

They sound OK here, full HD, still takes a few moments to have the HD
icon light up and the ID to appear in place of the frequency. Once the
HD locks in it stays and the audio sounds better even during QSB.

Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise. It's very annoying and I wish they
would turn that HD crap off.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article 49e96250.715640@chupacabra,
Bob Dobbs wrote:

Telamon wrote:
Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise.

There's some hiss in analog
but it goes away when the HD locks
I haven't heard any rumbling but I'm over a hundred miles away
down here on the border, and on the other side of the station from you
so it could be something up your way.
There are a few times when it seems I hear a transient echo but I think
that the audio version of temporary digital corruption (QSB related?)
like what would be seen as pixelation when it occurs on TV.

The data is supposed to have error correction. Maybe the errors are
exceeding the maximum rate. If the system is engineered correctly you
should not be able to hear problems due to errors but what is done right
in IBOC.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

On Apr 17, 10:26*pm, Bob Dobbs wrote:
Telamon wrote:
Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise.

There's some hiss in analog
but it goes away when the HD locks
I haven't heard any rumbling but I'm over a hundred miles away
down here on the border, and on the other side of the station from you
so it could be something up your way.
There are a few times when it seems I hear a transient echo but I think
that the audio version of temporary digital corruption (QSB related?)
like what would be seen as pixelation when it occurs on TV.

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

The hiss doesn't go away for people that don't have HD, oh, like
someone listening on a AR7030+. It isn't that the radio sidebands are
so wide that they are getting the HD noise (OK, signal) because you
can select a narrow filter on the 7030. Not all IBOC stations have
this problem, so it could be pilot error of the broadcast tech that
set it up.

Now the poor schmuck using a car radio, which doesn't have tight
filters, has to put up with the IBOC noise. So they brickwall the high
frequency content of the analog, add noise, then tell you it is for
you own good. This is so nasty, Dick Cheney must be involved.

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

Telamon wrote:
In article ,
dave wrote:

wrote:
I love it - In my area several stations that were transmitting
ibiquity digital junk have turned it off but they continue to have
spots proclaiming ³now in crystal clear HD². Thus leading consumers
to believe that they are hearing their radio station in ³crystal clear
HD² * with no hd radio upgrade needed!

Talk about confusion! Good way to promote a product * let them think
they already have it! Struble you¹re a genius.

Oh yea * hd radio is exciting! No need to buy one (if they were even
available) because you already have one!
KFI, always Johnny-on-the-spot, just fired their IBOC up. Resulting in
an annoying wubba-wubba sound whenever one of their sidebands fades a
little (which is several times a minute).

For some reason they sound especially bad on the AR7030+ now.


Clear Channel being clueless as usual.

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

Bob Dobbs wrote:
Telamon wrote:
In article ,
dave wrote:

wrote:
I love it - In my area several stations that were transmitting
ibiquity digital junk have turned it off but they continue to have
spots proclaiming ³now in crystal clear HD². Thus leading consumers
to believe that they are hearing their radio station in ³crystal clear
HD² * with no hd radio upgrade needed!

Talk about confusion! Good way to promote a product * let them think
they already have it! Struble you¹re a genius.

Oh yea * hd radio is exciting! No need to buy one (if they were even
available) because you already have one!
KFI, always Johnny-on-the-spot, just fired their IBOC up. Resulting in
an annoying wubba-wubba sound whenever one of their sidebands fades a
little (which is several times a minute).
For some reason they sound especially bad on the AR7030+ now.

They sound OK here, full HD, still takes a few moments to have the HD
icon light up and the ID to appear in place of the frequency. Once the
HD locks in it stays and the audio sounds better even during QSB.


I'm in Canyon Country. Telemon's in Ventura. Where be you?

I guess I could connect the 75' random wire to the BA Recepter HD and
see if it'll lock. I've only ever heard one MW HD station (710 from
North Hollywood). The Mexican under KFI seems to be absent lately.

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

Telamon wrote:


Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise. It's very annoying and I wish they
would turn that HD crap off.


The IBOC signal is either side of the AM carrier. Each IBOC sideband is
identical but out-of-phase with the other. The theory is the IBOC
sidebands cancel each other out in your receiver. But if one sideband
propagates better than the other (which is always the case once you get
a few miles from the transmitter) the cancellation is not complete.
This is when you hear the digital hash and the wubba-wubba sound.

For those of us using a radio with selectable sideband synchronous
detection, but unable to choose USB and LSB at the same time (like my
Drake SW2) we are forced to listen in plain AM.

Clear Channel has 2 full blown flamethrowers crippled by IBOC in
California now. It's a shame. Citadel gets it. KGO and KKOH do not
use IBOC at night. KFI and KFBK do, and it really diminishes their signals.

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

On Apr 18, 1:26�am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
Telamon wrote:
Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise.

There's some hiss in analog
but it goes away when the HD locks
I haven't heard any rumbling but I'm over a hundred miles away
down here on the border, and on the other side of the station from you
so it could be something up your way.
There are a few times when it seems I hear a transient echo but I think
that the audio version of temporary digital corruption (QSB related?)
like what would be seen as pixelation when it occurs on TV.

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

"FCC to Consider Raising FM-HD Power Levels"

"Why would radio stations take the risk of degrading the quality of
their existing analog service in order to pimp a flawed technology
which nobody's listening to? It's almost as if the strategy of the HD
Radio Alliance is to degrade analog radio service in order to force
digital adoption - kind of a variant on the 'we had to destroy the
village to save it' rationale."

http://tinyurl.com/67bgv7

iBiquity is trying to force digital adoption.

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article ,
dave wrote:

Telamon wrote:


Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise. It's very annoying and I wish they
would turn that HD crap off.


The IBOC signal is either side of the AM carrier. Each IBOC sideband is
identical but out-of-phase with the other. The theory is the IBOC
sidebands cancel each other out in your receiver. But if one sideband
propagates better than the other (which is always the case once you get
a few miles from the transmitter) the cancellation is not complete.
This is when you hear the digital hash and the wubba-wubba sound.

For those of us using a radio with selectable sideband synchronous
detection, but unable to choose USB and LSB at the same time (like my
Drake SW2) we are forced to listen in plain AM.

Clear Channel has 2 full blown flamethrowers crippled by IBOC in
California now. It's a shame. Citadel gets it. KGO and KKOH do not
use IBOC at night. KFI and KFBK do, and it really diminishes their signals.

They sound terrible in either side band selectable sync turned on with
the Drakes. There is significant low frequency noises that are not
easily describable along with the usual high frequency hiss. Kind of a
low frequency rushing sound like water through a pipe. This sucks.

Now the only radio I have they still sound halfway decent on is the
RX340 with its brick wall DSP filters. I can barely hear the low
frequency noise and the high frequency hiss is minimized in AM mode.

So here is the upshot:
The worst sound is on the Drakes with side band selectable sync turned
on. Next worse is with the AM sync on so the best is just AM mode with
no sync. Same for the AR7030+ except it does not have the selectable
side band sync. The best is the RX340 where both the low frequency noise
and the high frequency hiss is not as prominent.

I'm complaining to KFI about this.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article 49eb5ac5.4793609@chupacabra,
Bob Dobbs wrote:

dave wrote:
Telamon wrote:


Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise. It's very annoying and I wish they
would turn that HD crap off.


The IBOC signal is either side of the AM carrier. Each IBOC sideband is
identical but out-of-phase with the other. The theory is the IBOC
sidebands cancel each other out in your receiver. But if one sideband
propagates better than the other (which is always the case once you get
a few miles from the transmitter) the cancellation is not complete.
This is when you hear the digital hash and the wubba-wubba sound.

For those of us using a radio with selectable sideband synchronous
detection, but unable to choose USB and LSB at the same time (like my
Drake SW2) we are forced to listen in plain AM.

Sometime ago when KOGO 600 first went to band hog mode (IBOC-HD)
I tuned in to see just how bad it was and noticed that rumbling you
mentioned with the whip collapsed on the E1 for weak signal simulation,
but the DSB synch would remedy it, same with KNX.


I just tried KOGO 600, KFI 640, KNX 1070 and turning on the sync
detector didn't do anything to improve the audio. AM sounded the best.

Turning on side band selectable sync causes horrendous low frequency
noise.

By the way Australia is currently good on 17,795 as is NZ on 15,720.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

On Apr 18, 7:12�pm, Bob Dobbs wrote:
Telamon wrote:

I'm complaining to KFI about this.

Their programming sucks worse than their signal.
Biggest improvement KFI could make
would be to get rid of Dr Laura and Rush.
Then bring back Tom Leykis.

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

Dr. Laura is very abusive with callers.

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article
,
Telamon wrote:

In article ,
dave wrote:

Telamon wrote:


Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise. It's very annoying and I wish they
would turn that HD crap off.


The IBOC signal is either side of the AM carrier. Each IBOC sideband is
identical but out-of-phase with the other. The theory is the IBOC
sidebands cancel each other out in your receiver. But if one sideband
propagates better than the other (which is always the case once you get
a few miles from the transmitter) the cancellation is not complete.
This is when you hear the digital hash and the wubba-wubba sound.

For those of us using a radio with selectable sideband synchronous
detection, but unable to choose USB and LSB at the same time (like my
Drake SW2) we are forced to listen in plain AM.

Clear Channel has 2 full blown flamethrowers crippled by IBOC in
California now. It's a shame. Citadel gets it. KGO and KKOH do not
use IBOC at night. KFI and KFBK do, and it really diminishes their signals.

They sound terrible in either side band selectable sync turned on with
the Drakes. There is significant low frequency noises that are not
easily describable along with the usual high frequency hiss. Kind of a
low frequency rushing sound like water through a pipe. This sucks.

Now the only radio I have they still sound halfway decent on is the
RX340 with its brick wall DSP filters. I can barely hear the low
frequency noise and the high frequency hiss is minimized in AM mode.

So here is the upshot:
The worst sound is on the Drakes with side band selectable sync turned
on. Next worse is with the AM sync on so the best is just AM mode with
no sync. Same for the AR7030+ except it does not have the selectable
side band sync. The best is the RX340 where both the low frequency noise
and the high frequency hiss is not as prominent.

I'm complaining to KFI about this.


I got a response from KFI already. Their online technical person Ernie
Kristof said he would pass my comments along to the chief engineer Terry
Grieger.

If you don't like the IBOC signal then tell the stations about it. If
they get enough complaints maybe they will turn it off.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article 49eb67a9.8093437@chupacabra,
Bob Dobbs wrote:

Telamon wrote:

I just tried KOGO 600, KFI 640, KNX 1070 and turning on the sync
detector didn't do anything to improve the audio. AM sounded the best.

Turning on side band selectable sync causes horrendous low frequency
noise.

Have you got an E1 or something that will do DSB sync?
As berated as the E1 has been, that's a seldom mentioned plus.
I think the Grundig G3 does it too.

The Drake R8B, AR7030+, and RX340 all have DSB sync.

The Drake R8B and the RX340 have in addition side band selectable sync.

The Sony 7600G only has side band selectable sync.

Same story on all radios. Side band selectable sync generates a lot of
this hard to describe low frequency rushing noise.

Any attempt to shift the passband to get better high frequency response
just increase the high frequency hissing noise.

It's not great but so far the best thing is just AM, no sync, and
passband centered.

Now I'm going to go check the car radio. I'll drive around a bit and see
how it sounds.

By the Australia is now best on 17,715. 17,795 is not bad and NZ is
still good on 15,720.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article 49ec5d5a.5454640@chupacabra,
Bob Dobbs wrote:

Telamon wrote:

I'm complaining to KFI about this.

Their programming sucks worse than their signal.
Biggest improvement KFI could make
would be to get rid of Dr Laura and Rush.
Then bring back Tom Leykis.

I can agree on Dr Laura. Rush I listen to once in a while. Usually when
I decide to listen to him there is usually a guest in his place. Just
luck I guess. Tom Leykis belongs under the biggest rock on the planet in
a very dark place.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

In article
,
Telamon wrote:

In article 49eb67a9.8093437@chupacabra,
Bob Dobbs wrote:

Telamon wrote:

I just tried KOGO 600, KFI 640, KNX 1070 and turning on the sync
detector didn't do anything to improve the audio. AM sounded the best.

Turning on side band selectable sync causes horrendous low frequency
noise.

Have you got an E1 or something that will do DSB sync?
As berated as the E1 has been, that's a seldom mentioned plus.
I think the Grundig G3 does it too.

The Drake R8B, AR7030+, and RX340 all have DSB sync.

The Drake R8B and the RX340 have in addition side band selectable sync.

The Sony 7600G only has side band selectable sync.

Same story on all radios. Side band selectable sync generates a lot of
this hard to describe low frequency rushing noise.

Any attempt to shift the passband to get better high frequency response
just increase the high frequency hissing noise.

It's not great but so far the best thing is just AM, no sync, and
passband centered.

Now I'm going to go check the car radio. I'll drive around a bit and see
how it sounds.

By the Australia is now best on 17,715. 17,795 is not bad and NZ is
still good on 15,720.

KFI sounds just fine on the car radio. I even turned up the treble and
could not hear the hiss. The stereo in the car is the top end that was
offered at the time for the model with tweeters in the door columns.

They just sound bad on top end table top radios.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

"Bob Dobbs" wrote in message
news:49eb5ac5.4793609@chupacabra...
dave wrote:
Telamon wrote:


Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and often
times warbling rumble kind of noise. It's very annoying and I wish they
would turn that HD crap off.


The IBOC signal is either side of the AM carrier. Each IBOC sideband is
identical but out-of-phase with the other. The theory is the IBOC
sidebands cancel each other out in your receiver. But if one sideband
propagates better than the other (which is always the case once you get
a few miles from the transmitter) the cancellation is not complete.
This is when you hear the digital hash and the wubba-wubba sound.

For those of us using a radio with selectable sideband synchronous
detection, but unable to choose USB and LSB at the same time (like my
Drake SW2) we are forced to listen in plain AM.



The theory doesn't even work well within the local signal area, since almost
no radios use a detector that detects both sides of the envelope. Therefore,
you have only one sideband being detected, and the IBOC hash will be present
under the analog program material if the radio is sufficiently broadband
(more than about 8 KHz).

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

Brenda Ann wrote:


"Bob Dobbs" wrote in message
news:49eb5ac5.4793609@chupacabra...
dave wrote:
Telamon wrote:


Well, how about analog? I have some hiss in there all the time and
often times warbling rumble kind of noise. It's very annoying and I
wish they would turn that HD crap off.


The IBOC signal is either side of the AM carrier. Each IBOC sideband is
identical but out-of-phase with the other. The theory is the IBOC
sidebands cancel each other out in your receiver. But if one sideband
propagates better than the other (which is always the case once you get
a few miles from the transmitter) the cancellation is not complete.
This is when you hear the digital hash and the wubba-wubba sound.

For those of us using a radio with selectable sideband synchronous
detection, but unable to choose USB and LSB at the same time (like my
Drake SW2) we are forced to listen in plain AM.



The theory doesn't even work well within the local signal area, since
almost no radios use a detector that detects both sides of the envelope.
Therefore, you have only one sideband being detected, and the IBOC hash
will be present under the analog program material if the radio is
sufficiently broadband (more than about 8 KHz).

Most AM radios detect the signals on both sides of the carrier. I know of no
commonly available radio that doesn't operate that way in the AM mode.

Detecting the positive or negative side of the AM envelope in the time
domain does not equate to detecting USB or LSB. (i.e., a simple diode
detector.)

The need for DSB in the sync mode is to cancel out components of the digital
signal in the passband of the radio, not deal with the bulk of the digital
signal that is well outside of the passband.

Ibiquity IBOC - no hd radio upgrade needed!
 

Bob Dobbs wrote:
dave wrote:

I'm in Canyon Country. Telemon's in Ventura. Where be you?

San Diego county

I guess I could connect the 75' random wire to the BA Recepter HD and
see if it'll lock.

The radio is one of the Accurians that local Radio Shacks were closing
out recently http://tinyurl.com/dbl8db
I was using the small supplied loop last night hung from the ceiling
indoors and after fifteen or twenty seconds, sometimes less, it would
get a lock and hold it most of the time. I could tell when it reverted
back to analog because that's when the slight hiss returned, but that
didn't happen often.

I've only ever heard one MW HD station (710 from
North Hollywood).

You don't get KNX 1070 up there?

The Mexican under KFI seems to be absent lately.

I can't recall hearing that, but I'm not a KFI regular.


KNX has some significant skywave cancellation here in North L. A.
County. The signal varies quite a bit, but is not steady enough for the
IBOC to lock. I get 570, 610, 710, 1220 and 1260 the best (in the daytime).