Whose Medical Decisions?
 

Brenda Ann wrote:


I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page, double
spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages of Harry Potter
in under a week (double sided pages, in much smaller print, and single
spaced). And BTW, it's their JOB to read these bills. We don't pay them to
make stupid remarks on television.



There is no single bill to be read right now. As I understand it, there
are are at least 3 committees, each with a different version. They have
staff who are familiar with every word and nothing is hidden. They do
have all day to read things.

Whose Medical Decisions?
 

squirltop wrote:


The people have let the congress and lawmakers be lazy ****s for ever.
Earmarks and 'special interests' are the scourge of American politics.
Hopefully understanding what is put out will be a new trend in
American politics, with out politicians. To much 'nothing' from most
politicans for too long. It has long been far far past the breaking
point.

I see in your future a freeway overpass and "breaking news"...

Whose Medical Decisions?
 

On Aug 19, 10:47*pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page, double
spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages of Harry Potter
in under a week (double sided pages, in much smaller print, and single
spaced). *And BTW, it's their JOB to read these bills. We don't pay them to
make stupid remarks on television.
That is not what I learned from my high school Social Studies
teacher. We were taught that the House and Senate were subdivided
into committees. Legislators were expected to be expertly
knowledgeable only about the bills reported out of their committees,
not all bills. The "READ THE BILL!" rablle rouserrs are just
displaying their own stupidity and ignorance.

Whose Medical Decisions?
 

In the Jackson,Mississippi Legislature, I have NO Doubt at all they read
every single word of any and all bills.
A lot of times I listen to local radio talk shows when the radio talk
show host and people who phone in are talking about those bills.
cuhulin

What the hell does this have to do with SHORTWAVE radio????
Check the forum you're in BEFORE you post!!!!

HEY DAVE!!!! THIS is a SHORTWAVE forum!!!! STAY on topic here or don't post!!!

WRONG FORUM PEOPLE!!!!! Pay attention!!!

Whose Medical Decisions?
 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:58:45 -0700, wrote:

On Aug 19, 10:47Â*pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page, double
spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages of Harry
Potter in under a week (double sided pages, in much smaller print, and
single spaced). Â*And BTW, it's their JOB to read these bills. We don't
pay them to make stupid remarks on television.
That is not what I learned from my high school Social Studies teacher.
We were taught that the House and Senate were subdivided into
committees. Legislators were expected to be expertly knowledgeable only
about the bills reported out of their committees, not all bills. The
"READ THE BILL!" rablle rouserrs are just displaying their own stupidity
and ignorance.

Legalese is a pain in the ass to read. But the representatives have
staffs that "report out" the honest version in plain talk and that is
what the representative must read. There is probably a group that does
this for each caucus. The representatives also have at least two other
jobs in addition to understanding the bills. One of these is to do all
that can be done on a bill such as HR 3200 to educated the people as to
the actual contents of the bill and the purpose of the bill. And the
other duty is to ascertain the thus educated will of the constituents.
Our current system fails in these last two important areas much more than
if fails in the requirement to "read the bill".

IMHO a NON PARTISAN agency such as The Congressional Research Service
should put the English encapsulation of a bill as important as HR 3200 on
line for all to read. The administration should not be forced to put this
encapsulation on line due to the lack of a NON PATISAN service. And this
truthful encapsulation of the bill is what should be the subject of any
PUBLIC debate.

The link below illustrates the concept and at present but is woefully
inadequate to the required task:

http://opencrs.com/document/R40517/

Here we see a discussion of the various tax proposals that finance the
extension of insurance to the lower income folks who cannot currently
afford such insurance.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...8/crs-tax.html


But I am of the opinion that HR 3200 is _THE_ current bill that has been
reported out of the House committees and that CRS should offer a PLAIN
TALK assessment of that bill.

--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

Whose Medical Decisions?
 

(OT) : Dealing with the theInconvenient Truths of Obama-Care©
 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:00:03 -0700, ~ RHF wrote:

On Aug 20, 5:46Â*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:39:39 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:



wrote:
On Aug 19, 10:47 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page,
double spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages
of Harry Potter in under a week (double sided pages, in much
smaller print, and single spaced). Â*And BTW, it's their JOB to read
these bills. We don't pay them to make stupid remarks on
television.
That is not what I learned from my high school Social Studies
teacher. We were taught that the House and Senate were subdivided
into committees. Â*Legislators were expected to be expertly
knowledgeable only about the bills reported out of their committees,
not all bills. The "READ THE BILL!" rablle rouserrs are just
displaying their own stupidity and ignorance.

Why have them all vote, if they have no clue what they are voting
for? It would be suffecient to have those "expertly knowledgeable
only about the bills" vote for the entire congress......

The representatives of the people do not need to read the legal version
in order to be fully aware of what is in the bill. Â*The American people
should also have a PLAIN TALK version of the bill. Â*The "expertly
knowledgeable are on the committees that draft the bill and haggle out
what is in the bill in the committees. The market up version is then
ready for debate and amendment. Â*The knowledge of what is in the
version "reported out" of the committee and of all the proposed
amendments are the responsibility of the caucus that will assign
different staff members and House members to each such task in order to
produce a more intelligible shorter version of the legalese.

The interesting part is that the House currently is composed of the
legislative assembly (the committees) which actually produces proposed
legislation, and the representative assembly who are to understand what
is in the proposed legislation so that they may communicate with their
constituency and vote on the proposed legislation. Â*I think you are
claiming that the representatives of the people should not have any
voice in what the APPOINTED and ANOINTED few might decide. Â*You MUST be
a latter day Republican.

I think we see who's ignorant. We could vote on it but the few here
that are "expertly knowledgeable only about" your infinite stupidity
need read your posts to determine that.

- I find most of the rightarded posts to be outright - lies concerning
the actual proposed legislation. -Â*It isn't ignorance.
-Â*It is outright lying.

OK so "End-of-Life" Counseling is NOT in the Obama-Care© Bills.

Actually, there IS a proposal in HR 3200 to COVER such counseling if the
insured person wishes to "counsel". It is not mandatory.

OK so Half or the Cost of Obama-Care© is NOT going to be Paid for by
Reductions in Medicare Spending for America's Senior Citizens.

Why don't you show us some data or a cite for this stupid claim?

--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

(OT) : Dealing with the the Inconvenient Truths of Obama-Care©
 

On Aug 20, 9:55*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:00:03 -0700, ~ RHF wrote:
On Aug 20, 5:46*pm, Michael Coburn wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:39:39 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

wrote:
On Aug 19, 10:47 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page,
double spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages
of Harry Potter in under a week (double sided pages, in much
smaller print, and single spaced). *And BTW, it's their JOB to read
these bills. We don't pay them to make stupid remarks on
television.
That is not what I learned from my high school Social Studies
teacher. We were taught that the House and Senate were subdivided
into committees. *Legislators were expected to be expertly
knowledgeable only about the bills reported out of their committees,
not all bills. The "READ THE BILL!" rablle rouserrs are just
displaying their own stupidity and ignorance.

Why have them all vote, if they have no clue what they are voting
for? It would be suffecient to have those "expertly knowledgeable
only about the bills" vote for the entire congress......

The representatives of the people do not need to read the legal version
in order to be fully aware of what is in the bill. *The American people
should also have a PLAIN TALK version of the bill. *The "expertly
knowledgeable are on the committees that draft the bill and haggle out
what is in the bill in the committees. The market up version is then
ready for debate and amendment. *The knowledge of what is in the
version "reported out" of the committee and of all the proposed
amendments are the responsibility of the caucus that will assign
different staff members and House members to each such task in order to
produce a more intelligible shorter version of the legalese.

The interesting part is that the House currently is composed of the
legislative assembly (the committees) which actually produces proposed
legislation, and the representative assembly who are to understand what
is in the proposed legislation so that they may communicate with their
constituency and vote on the proposed legislation. *I think you are
claiming that the representatives of the people should not have any
voice in what the APPOINTED and ANOINTED few might decide. *You MUST be
a latter day Republican.

I think we see who's ignorant. We could vote on it but the few here
that are "expertly knowledgeable only about" your infinite stupidity
need read your posts to determine that.

- I find most of the rightarded posts to be outright - lies concerning
the actual proposed legislation. -*It isn't ignorance.
-*It is outright lying.

OK so "End-of-Life" Counseling is NOT in the Obama-Care© Bills.

Actually, there IS a proposal in HR 3200 to COVER such counseling if the
insured person wishes to "counsel". *It is not mandatory.

Michael Coburn,
Paying Doctors for a Service called "End-of-Life"
Counseling and Grading them on the performance
of that 'service' for each and every American Senior
Citizen that is covered by Medicare will de-facto
make it Mandatory.


- - OK so Half or the Cost of Obama-Care©
- - is NOT going to be Paid for by Reductions
- - in Medicare Spending for America's Senior
- - Citizens.

- Why don't you show us some data or a cite for this stupid claim?

Michael Coburn 'stupid claim' that's Obama-Bot©
{Liberal-Fascist} Name Calling : Not Facts.

1 - Mr. Obama proposed $622 Billion in cuts to
Federal Health-Care Spending. {Medicare &
Medicaid}
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124839406488477649.html
Te White House has proposed Shaving {Cutting}
$177 Billion from Payments to Health Insurers
under Medicare managed-care plans, which
allow America's Senior Citizens to obtain
Medicare Coverage outside the government-run
program. {Choice} and forcing America's Senior
Citizens into a Government Only Medicare Plan
Reducing Coverage, Benefits, Services, and
Treatment.

2 - Prez Obama proposed $313 Billion in Cuts to
Medicare and Medicaid to help Pay for $1 Trillion
Obama-Care© Reforms.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/13/news...reut/index.htm
Cuts to Reduce/Eliminate Medicare : Coverage,
Benefits, Services, and Treatment for America's
Senior Citizens.

3 - Medicare, Medicaid Cuts in Prez Obama's Budget
Total $316 Billion Over 10 Years
http://healthcenter.bna.com/pic2/hc....2?OpenDocument
-but- American Senior Citizens will get . . .
End-of-Life" {Ending-Your-Life} Counseling
with Obama-Care©

4 - Prez Obama calls for Cuts in Medicare and Medicaid
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/ju...pers-j16.shtml

(OT) : Whose Medical Decisions ? - Your 'Choice' -or- GovernmentMandate
 

~ RHF wrote:
On Aug 20, 5:39 am, dave wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:

I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page, double
spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages of Harry Potter
in under a week (double sided pages, in much smaller print, and single
spaced). And BTW, it's their JOB to read these bills. We don't pay them to
make stupid remarks on television.
There is no single bill to be read right now. As I understand it, there
are are at least 3 committees, each with a different version. They have
staff who are familiar with every word and nothing is hidden. They do
have all day to read things.

Dave 'staff' ain't your Elected Representative.

Roy, "staff" is the part the part of the machine that actually does the
work. The Representative runs for office and conceives "big picture"
policy, makes the speeches, collects the checks, etc., but the staff
does the actual work.

Why do you hate workers?

(OT) : Whose Medical Decisions ? - Your 'Choice' -or- GovernmentMandate
 

WQGT447 wrote:

.

By God, you are desperate, aren't you? Whose payroll are you on?
Blue Cross? HealthNet? Inquiring minds want to know...

Roy is a "Bubble Puppy". He lives in a parallel universe. He thinks
Fox News is real.

I watch Fox News. It's a combination of horror and black comedy that is
truly awesome.

(OT) : Dealing with the the Inconvenient Truths of Obama-Care©
 

~ RHF wrote:


OK so "End-of-Life" Counseling is NOT in the
Obama-Care© Bills.

It never was, Bozo. There was a provision to pay a doctor for 1
consultation every 5 years. (A Republican proposed part of the bill, by
the way.)

OK so Half or the Cost of Obama-Care© is NOT
going to be Paid for by Reductions in Medicare
Spending for America's Senior Citizens.

No. Reduction in Medicare waste. Administrative streamlining, fraud
prevention, etc.

the inconvenient truth - ain't a lie ~ RHF


There are not 2 sides to a fact. There is no way a lie equals "balance"
against a truth.

(OT) : Whose Medical Decisions ? - Your 'Choice' -or- GovernmentMandate
 

On Aug 21, 5:21*am, dave wrote:
WQGT447 wrote:
*.

By God, you are desperate, aren't you? *Whose payroll are you on?
Blue Cross? *HealthNet? *Inquiring minds want to know...

Roy is a "Bubble Puppy". *He lives in a parallel universe. *He thinks
Fox News is real.

I watch Fox News. *It's a combination of horror and black comedy that is
truly awesome.

Fox is amazing, isn't it? Those guys are incapable of telling even
the slightest bit of truth if it will help anyone who makes less than
$500,000 per annum. They are desperate to turn back the clock to the
year 1890, or possibly even antebellum times when they are at their
worst.

Whose Medical Decisions?
 

Michael Coburn wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:39:39 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

wrote:
On Aug 19, 10:47 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page, double
spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages of Harry
Potter in under a week (double sided pages, in much smaller print, and
single spaced). And BTW, it's their JOB to read these bills. We don't
pay them to make stupid remarks on television.
That is not what I learned from my high school Social Studies teacher.
We were taught that the House and Senate were subdivided into
committees. Legislators were expected to be expertly knowledgeable
only about the bills reported out of their committees, not all bills.
The "READ THE BILL!" rablle rouserrs are just displaying their own
stupidity and ignorance.
Why have them all vote, if they have no clue what they are voting for?
It would be suffecient to have those "expertly knowledgeable only about
the bills" vote for the entire congress......

The representatives of the people do not need to read the legal version
in order to be fully aware of what is in the bill. The American people
should also have a PLAIN TALK version of the bill. The "expertly
knowledgeable are on the committees that draft the bill and haggle out

This is what the Church did to elevate it's self above the common
people. Latin was used to exclude the people.... Now you want our
government to become elitist, when the Constitution was written it was
plan text that we all could understand. It had to be to be ratified and
accepted by the people.

what is in the bill in the committees. The market up version is then
ready for debate and amendment. The knowledge of what is in the version
"reported out" of the committee and of all the proposed amendments are
the responsibility of the caucus that will assign different staff members
and House members to each such task in order to produce a more
intelligible shorter version of the legalese.
--



*BE VERY CONCERNED*

Don't list what you studied, tell me where you succeeded and failed.
*Poetic-Justice*

(OT) : Whose Medical Decisions ? - Your 'Choice' -or-Governme...
 

An operating room nurse Lady (she passed away a few years ago at fifty
years old, cancer) in Arlington,Texas,,, I once asked her about a little
skin growth on top of one of my shoulders, I have had that ever since I
was a kid.She told me she can't give out any medical advice because she
could lose her License.

Take two mornings and call me in the aspirin

I smell Rain, I better jump out at my old trailer and put my tools up..
cuhulin

Whose Medical Decisions?
 

Michael Coburn wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:39:39 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

wrote:
On Aug 19, 10:47 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page, double
spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages of Harry
Potter in under a week (double sided pages, in much smaller print, and
single spaced). And BTW, it's their JOB to read these bills. We don't
pay them to make stupid remarks on television.
That is not what I learned from my high school Social Studies teacher.
We were taught that the House and Senate were subdivided into
committees. Legislators were expected to be expertly knowledgeable
only about the bills reported out of their committees, not all bills.
The "READ THE BILL!" rablle rouserrs are just displaying their own
stupidity and ignorance.
Why have them all vote, if they have no clue what they are voting for?
It would be suffecient to have those "expertly knowledgeable only about
the bills" vote for the entire congress......

The representatives of the people do not need to read the legal version
in order to be fully aware of what is in the bill. The American people
should also have a PLAIN TALK version of the bill. The "expertly
knowledgeable are on the committees that draft the bill and haggle out

This is what the Church did to elevate its self above the common
people. Latin was used to exclude the people.... Now you want our
government to become elitist. When the Constitution was written it was
plain text that we could understand. It had to be ratified and
accepted by the people.

what is in the bill in the committees. The market up version is then
ready for debate and amendment. The knowledge of what is in the version
"reported out" of the committee and of all the proposed amendments are
the responsibility of the caucus that will assign different staff members
and House members to each such task in order to produce a more
intelligible shorter version of the legalese.



--



*BE VERY CONCERNED*

Media policy is... the only good news is bad news.

(OT) : Whose Medical Decisions ? - Your 'Choice' -or- GovernmentMandate
 

On Aug 21, 5:18*am, dave wrote:
~ RHF wrote:
On Aug 20, 5:39 am, dave wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:

I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page, double
spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages of Harry Potter
in under a week (double sided pages, in much smaller print, and single
spaced). *And BTW, it's their JOB to read these bills. We don't pay them to
make stupid remarks on television.
There is no single bill to be read right now. *As I understand it, there
are are at least 3 committees, each with a different version. *They have
staff who are familiar with every word and nothing is hidden. *They do
have all day to read things.

Dave 'staff' ain't your Elected Representative.

Roy, "staff" is the part the part of the machine that actually does the
work. *The Representative runs for office and conceives "big picture"
policy, makes the speeches, collects the checks, etc., but the staff
does the actual work.

Dave the Representative 'picks' the Staff
or at least the Chief-of-Staff; and the bottom
line is the Public Elects 'Their' Representative.

The foundation of The Representative Government
-is- "The Representative".

- Why do you hate workers?

Dave there you go like a typical Obama-Bot©
putting Words in other people's mouths.

Blessed by God with Life and Progressive by Nature thru Living ~ RHF
[Just an Old Retired Blue Collar Union Member - Dosvedanya Tovarisch]

(OT) : Whose Medical Decisions ? - Your 'Choice' -or- GovernmentMandate
 

On Aug 21, 11:21*am, Toxic wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:18:29 -0700, dave wrote:
Roy, "staff" is the part the part of the machine that actually does the
work. *The Representative runs for office and conceives "big picture"
policy, makes the speeches, collects the checks, etc., but the staff
does the actual work.

- - Why do you hate workers?

- He must have been one of those bosses that the
- crew smiled to his face and hated behind his back

bosses,
What Bosses ?
We Ain't Got To Show You No Stinking BOSSES !

As a 'worker' I expect an Honest Day's Pay :
for an Honest Day's Work*. {Fair Treatment}
* Did not matter whether I liked the Boss or not.

As a 'boss' I expect an Honest Day's Work :
For an Honest Day's Pay**. {Fair Treatment}
** Did not matter whether They liked Me or not.

Blessed by God with Life and Progressive by Nature thru Living ~ RHF
[Just an Old Retired Blue Collar Union Member - Dosvedanya Tovarisch]

Whose Medical Decisions?
 

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:19:20 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

Michael Coburn wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:39:39 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:

wrote:
On Aug 19, 10:47 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
I want to know what is so difficult about reading a 1000 page,
double spaced, single sided bill, when your kid can read 1000 pages
of Harry Potter in under a week (double sided pages, in much smaller
print, and single spaced). And BTW, it's their JOB to read these
bills. We don't pay them to make stupid remarks on television.
That is not what I learned from my high school Social Studies
teacher. We were taught that the House and Senate were subdivided
into committees. Legislators were expected to be expertly
knowledgeable only about the bills reported out of their committees,
not all bills. The "READ THE BILL!" rablle rouserrs are just
displaying their own stupidity and ignorance.
Why have them all vote, if they have no clue what they are voting for?
It would be suffecient to have those "expertly knowledgeable only
about the bills" vote for the entire congress......

The representatives of the people do not need to read the legal version
in order to be fully aware of what is in the bill. The American people
should also have a PLAIN TALK version of the bill. The "expertly
knowledgeable are on the committees that draft the bill and haggle out

This is what the Church did to elevate it's self above the common
people. Latin was used to exclude the people.... Now you want our
government to become elitist, when the Constitution was written it was
plan text that we all could understand. It had to be to be ratified and
accepted by the people.

We do not live in a direct democracy and most of us do not want to live
in a direct democracy. We elect REPRESENTATIVES as our AGENTS who have a
responsibility to act in our best interests. Those representatives will
organize the legislative process so as to accomplish the true aim of
representation. That is part of the job they have before them. We the
people WANT to be informed on particular acts of legislation and this
health reform legislation is one of those situations. We want the
representatives and the people to know what is in any bill that would
accomplish health care reform of any kind. The focus on "read" the bill
is whacky just as you have indicated. The legalese is not "plain talk"
and cannot be "plain talk" if it is to be supported in the courts.
Understanding what is in the bill does not require a diploma in legalese.
It requires a LEGAL staff that is true to the representative and a
representative that is true to his/her constituency.

what is in the bill in the committees. The market up version is then
ready for debate and amendment. The knowledge of what is in the
version "reported out" of the committee and of all the proposed
amendments are the responsibility of the caucus that will assign
different staff members and House members to each such task in order to
produce a more intelligible shorter version of the legalese.

--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson