On 9/28/09 11:55 , msg wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:

snip
They're moving to bundled voice-internet-TV. When ATT installs
U-Verse, around here, the first thing they do is cut the copper. In
many cases, if possible, they remove the drop line from the pole, so
the pair can't be reactivated. Verizon cuts the copper when they
install FiOS. Comcast cuts ATT's copper when they install their bundle.

This was recently discussed in comp.dcom.telecom and the consensus was
that such assertions were FUD. Please consider providing some evidence
of this practice, and also consider contributing your observations
to the appropriate threads in comp.dcom.telecom. Observations by yourself
or third parties and photographic evidence may be useful in PUC
proceedings.

Michael



My statements have been based on personal observations of the
'installation' process in my neighborhood. Comcast definitely cuts
the copper.

Verizon's website has a notation in it's FiOS FAQ about it.

ATT has so far presented no documents relating to this, but when
my g/f had her U-Verse installed, they cut the copper and removed
the drop from the building.

ATT reps are hitting me up monthly to make the conversion, and to
motivate me, the statements noted were made. If that's FUD, which it
may be, given the source, there is support in my observations of the
installations I've had experience with.

I'll be taking photos where I can during an installation. Video,
if I can get into a position for meaningful context.

D. Peter Maus wrote:

ATT has so far presented no documents relating to this, but when my
g/f had her U-Verse installed, they cut the copper and removed the drop
from the building.

This is quite puzzling...what did they replace the drop with? Another
piece of copper? Fiber? Or, when you say "building", do you mean a large
apartment complex, large enough to support/justify its own V-rad?

The "standard" U-verse architecture is copper from the home to the
V-rad. I guess it's possible that in some parts of the country, they are
running fiber to the home (although for years, that has not proven to be
cost effective due to the optical to electrical conversion required at
each and every house).

On 9/28/09 13:30 , Nick Danger wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:

ATT has so far presented no documents relating to this, but when my
g/f had her U-Verse installed, they cut the copper and removed the
drop from the building.

This is quite puzzling...what did they replace the drop with? Another
piece of copper? Fiber? Or, when you say "building", do you mean a large
apartment complex, large enough to support/justify its own V-rad?


Building--The house. Private residence. They ran a data line,
removed the analog copper. Replaced one drop with another. The
installer said the goal is eventually to connect fibre to the building.




The "standard" U-verse architecture is copper from the home to the
V-rad. I guess it's possible that in some parts of the country, they are
running fiber to the home (although for years, that has not proven to be
cost effective due to the optical to electrical conversion required at
each and every house).


That's what Verizon is doing with FiOS, and ATT is doing in some
areas.

D. Peter Maus wrote:

ATT has so far presented no documents relating to this, but when my
g/f had her U-Verse installed, they cut the copper and removed the
drop from the building.

On 9/28/09 13:30 , Nick Danger wrote:

This is quite puzzling...what did they replace the drop with? Another
piece of copper? Fiber? Or, when you say "building", do you mean a large
apartment complex, large enough to support/justify its own V-rad?

D. Peter Maus wrote:

Building--The house. Private residence. They ran a data line, removed
the analog copper. Replaced one drop with another.

Huh? Ran a "data line"? Whatever do you mean by that? You really haven't
addressed the issue or defined the problem. Do you mean a -fiber- "data
line" or a -copper- "data line"?

You seemed to be all in a tizzy that they "cut the copper".

When ATT installs U-Verse, around here, the first thing they do is cut the copper.

It sounds to me that they just replaced it with another piece of copper.
If they were just replacing the old drop (which may have been defective,
full of squirrel bites or whatever) with a new drop, what's the problem
with that?

On 9/28/09 16:58 , Nick Danger wrote:


D. Peter Maus wrote:

ATT has so far presented no documents relating to this, but when my
g/f had her U-Verse installed, they cut the copper and removed the
drop from the building.

On 9/28/09 13:30 , Nick Danger wrote:

This is quite puzzling...what did they replace the drop with? Another
piece of copper? Fiber? Or, when you say "building", do you mean a large
apartment complex, large enough to support/justify its own V-rad?

D. Peter Maus wrote:

Building--The house. Private residence. They ran a data line, removed
the analog copper. Replaced one drop with another.

Huh? Ran a "data line"? Whatever do you mean by that? You really haven't
addressed the issue or defined the problem. Do you mean a -fiber- "data
line" or a -copper- "data line"?


Replaced twisted pair with Cat 6.

In other areas, they're replacing twisted pair with fibre.



You seemed to be all in a tizzy that they "cut the copper".

When ATT installs U-Verse, around here, the first thing they do is cut
the copper.

It sounds to me that they just replaced it with another piece of copper.
If they were just replacing the old drop (which may have been defective,
full of squirrel bites or whatever) with a new drop, what's the problem
with that?


You're being obtuse. Maybe this will help:

They removed the analog phone line. And replaced it with part of a
digital voice, data, tv bundle.

No analog phone. Period.

You're being obtuse. Maybe this will help:

They removed the analog phone line. And replaced it with part of a
digital voice, data, tv bundle.

No analog phone. Period.




Now THERE'S your problem!

Nothing digital is ever reliable to the extent that the analog it replaces
is/was. About the closest they get is CD/mp3 audio, which is fairly
reliable, but each has drawbacks. Even if you got no electricity or
batteries, you could still play a vinyl (or bakelite or whatever) record...
all this fanciful digital hoo-haw will fail us when we need it most. Sure,
it's nice to be able to lug around a lifetime's music collection on a device
smaller than a pack of cigarettes.. but..

D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 9/28/09 16:58 , Nick Danger wrote:


D. Peter Maus wrote:

ATT has so far presented no documents relating to this, but when my
g/f had her U-Verse installed, they cut the copper and removed the
drop from the building.

On 9/28/09 13:30 , Nick Danger wrote:

This is quite puzzling...what did they replace the drop with? Another
piece of copper? Fiber? Or, when you say "building", do you mean a
large
apartment complex, large enough to support/justify its own V-rad?

D. Peter Maus wrote:

Building--The house. Private residence. They ran a data line, removed
the analog copper. Replaced one drop with another.

Huh? Ran a "data line"? Whatever do you mean by that? You really haven't
addressed the issue or defined the problem. Do you mean a -fiber- "data
line" or a -copper- "data line"?


Replaced twisted pair with Cat 6.

So? Cat 6 IS copper "twisted pair", albeit with a very tight twist.

In other areas, they're replacing twisted pair with fibre.

They are replacing a lot of -trunk- cable with fiber. As stated
previously, I would be surprised if they are feeding each and every home
with fiber due to the great expense of providing an optical to
electrical conversion at each house.

You seemed to be all in a tizzy that they "cut the copper".

When ATT installs U-Verse, around here, the first thing they do is cut
the copper.

It sounds to me that they just replaced it with another piece of copper.
If they were just replacing the old drop (which may have been defective,
full of squirrel bites or whatever) with a new drop, what's the problem
with that?


You're being obtuse. Maybe this will help:

They removed the analog phone line.

To be correct, eliminate confusion and be less obtuse, you should have
stated that they were removing analog phone *service*, not 'line'. A Cat
6 'line' will work just fine for analog service.

As a presumably technical person, I'm sure you can appreciate the value
of using the correct terminology and providing a clear description of
the problem.

And replaced it with part of a
digital voice, data, tv bundle.

As stated by another poster, this would seem to be grounds for going to
your state utilities commission.

No analog phone. Period.

By "digital voice" and "no analog phone", do you mean they are FORCING
you to use VOIP (voice over internet protocol), the only kind of
'digital' voice provided by the telco.? If so, off to the Commission.

What does/what will all of that mean for people who use dial up
computers/internet access? WebTV is dial up too.
cuhulin

On 9/28/09 20:19 , Nick Danger wrote:

As a presumably technical person, I'm sure you can appreciate the value
of using the correct terminology and providing a clear description of
the problem.



Using the terminology of the phone company is apparently not good
enough for you.

AT&T, Engineering. I still have my badge holder and lanyard from 1010
Pine.

Good evening, Gav.


The thread is yours.