On May 26, 11:49Â*am, "Fred B. Brown" wrote:
"snakehawk" wrote in message

...
On May 26, 8:37 am, "Fred B. Brown" wrote:



"?baMa? Tse Dung" wrote in
...

In a recent article at the Huffington Post, Lynn Parramore assembled a
team of economists to refute nine "myths" about the deficit. On the
one hand, it was refreshing to see these economists discuss with such
candor the fact that our financial system is backed up by nothing but
green pieces of paper. On the other hand, it was shocking to see these
economists laud the fact.

Read mo HuffPo Abolishes Scarcity - Robert P. Murphy - Mises Daily

http://mises.org/daily/4349

Arianna Stasinopoulos Huffington is a 'real' financial expert. She's
a Greek Socialist emigrant, considering that the Greek economy
is collapsing I take what she has to say with a grain of salt.

At least consider the underlying theme--that government has a duty to
provide sufficient money to sustain the economy, and that government
is the source of money. Â*When an economy has the potential for
expansion, the government should make additional money available. Â*The
government should curtail spending and reduce the money supply only
when the economy is at maximum production and more money simply leads
to inflation.

President Roosevelt (D) took the US off the gold standard in the 30's.
The gold standard required the Treasury Dept to print only as much
money as the value of gold held by the government. Taking the US
off the gold standard allowed the government to print more money
than the value of it's gold to pay for Roosevelt's New Deal programs.
The money printed was to be backed by the good faith of the government
and the strength of the American economy.
The US economy is in the toilet and the government is printing money
faster than McDonald's can make french fries.
Economic meltdown is on it's way.

The Republicans have it all backwards. Â*The Bush administration not
only spent money like drunken bank robbers, they also spent the money
of useless wars and overseas adventures. Â*They not only opened the
money vaults to big business, they also shoveled the money to
nonproductive investment banks, hedge funds, and international
gamblers.

The Republicans kept a loose money policy even while America's
production facilites were being transferred overseas and America'
manufacturing base was shrinking. Â*The result was the collapse of the
United States monetary system and the economy.

And now that crippled US economy is rebounding and more money is
needed to fund the expanding activity, the Republicans oppose
government spending and expanding the money supply, the exact opposite
of what is needed right now. Â*The spendthrift Republicans who allowed
international money changers to scoop up and gamble away most of the
available cash have now become thrifty nannies who think the way to
prosperity is for government to sit back and allow the international
bankers to control the rate of America's recovery.

well said.

You don't have to be a Keynesian to recognize that the economics of
belt-tightening is a fool's errand in a recession:the combination of
financial collapse and deflation helped create depression,
dictatorship, and then World War II
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert...-austerity-doe...
Robert Kuttner 
Co-founder and co-editor of The American Prospect
Posted: May 23, 2010 08:05 PM
Get a Grip: Austerity Does Not Produce Prosperity
Austerity has suddenly become the universally prescribed cure for the
fallout from the financial collapse. If widely adopted, it will prove
worse than the disease. 
The price of the rescues of Greece, Spain and
Portugal will be brutal 
deflation. The International Monetary Fund,
which supposedly learned 
from its earlier mistakes of imposing
austerity on already damaged 
economies, is back in cold-bath mode,
demanding higher taxes and 
dramatically reduced spending as its pound
of flesh. 
The European Central Bank and key leaders of the E.U. are
promoting 
economic pain as the price of relief. Here at home,
President Obama 
has sworn off serious new outlays for jobs or aid to
the states, and 
is using his fiscal commission to pursue a bipartisan
consensus on 
spending cuts and higher taxes. 
The nations of the
European Union are being treated as the object 
lesson in the costs of
profligacy. This is supposedly what happens 
when you provide decent
social benefits to regular people. In fact, 
most of Europe had
reasonably well-disciplined budgets until a made-on- 
Wall-Street
economic crisis took down their economies. 
The budget deficit here
and overseas does need to return to a more 
moderate level -- after we
get an economic recovery. But the problem 
with the austerity
treatment during a recession is that if everyone 
tightens their belts
at once, there is nobody to buy the products; the 
economy shrinks and
repayment of debt is even more arduous. As John 
Maynard Keynes
famously wrote, "The patient does not need rest. He 
needs exercise.."
You don't have to be a Keynesian to recognize that the economics of
belt-tightening is a fool's errand in a recession. 
With the exception
of a few smaller nations, the large deficits in the 
OECD countries
are not the result of fiscal profligacy, but of revenue 
losses caused
by the downturn. And in the case of Greece, supposedly 
the poster
child for profligacy, the new Socialist Papandreou 
government is
having to clean up after the fiscal finagling of its 
conservative
predecessor. Greece certainly needs tax reform to make 
sure that so
many of its very wealthy do not hide their assets. It 
does not need
general austerity. 
The US has been spared this phase of the crisis so
far, because the 
Federal Reserve has been willing to be buyer of last
resort of all 
manner of securities, including government debt. This
remedy is far 
from ideal, and it needs to be wound down as soon as
recovery comes, 
as well as combined with structural reforms. But the
Fed rescue 
certainly beats a total collapse 
In Europe, by contrast,
this rescue act is far more difficult 
politically and
institutionally. Sovereignty is divided along nations 
pursuing their
own self-interests, a fledgling E.U. and a central bank 
that lacks
either the Fed's full powers, its history, or its self- 
confidence..
But Europe had better come through this test as a more unified and
politically effective system or we will all suffer. This is no time
for skeptics of the Euro or the E.U. to be gloating. 
In fact, the
Germans and the French have put their self-interest 
aside, and have
pushed for a rescue plan that prevents default on 
government bonds
and benefits Europe's less affluent nations. With aid 
to Greece
monumentally unpopular, German Chancellor Angela Merkel was 
willing
to lose a key state election in order to prevent a Euro 
collapse This
statesmanship is admirable -- but the austerity demands 
are not. 
The
current global economic crisis, now entering a new phase as a 
crisis
of sovereign debt, has only one rough precedent. The last time 
major
nations (such as Germany, its European creditors, and much of 
Latin
America) faced insolvency, the combination of financial collapse 
and
deflation helped create depression, dictatorship, and then World 
War
II. 
In the US, we finally ended the Great Depression with massive
wartime 
borrowing and public outlay. We ended the war with a debt-to-
GDP ratio 
of more than 120 percent, more than double today's ratio..
In Britain, 
debt-to-GDP peaked at about 250 percent. 
But all of the
war spending recapitalized industry, re-employed and 
trained jobless
workers; and after the war pent up consumer demand 
powered a record
boom and rising revenues paid down the debt. 
There was plenty of
wartime sacrifice, but it was shared. Citizens 
bought war bonds and
used ration books. There were wage and price 
controls. Surtaxes on
high incomes were over 90 percent. Interest 
rates were administered
through a deal between the Treasury and the 
Fed, and the war debt was
financed with cheap money. Inflation rose 
slightly after the war, but
was manageable. And thanks to the deferred 
demand and careful
economic management of the war years, peacetime 
conversion brought
not a recession but a boom. 
Today's situation is different. The
origin of all the debt is not a 
war but a financial collapse. The new
round of financial panic is the 
result of still fearful markets, a
still fragile banking system, and 
deficits caused mainly by reduced
output, not overspending. 
In this context, it is insane to think that
we can recover from a 
financial panic and an economic recession by
inducing a worse 
recession in the name of fiscal soundness. For now,
while the real 
economy heals, there is no substitute for aggressive
central bank 
intervention to restore markets in sovereign debt. The
right grand 
bargain is tough financial reform and limits on Wall
Street--so that 
this crisis is never repeated. The wrong grand
bargain is austerity 
for everyone else. 
Robert Kuttner's new book is
"A Presidency in Peril." He is co-editor 
of The American Prospect and
a senior fellow at Demos.

Fred B. Brown wrote:

And now that crippled US economy is rebounding and more money is
needed to fund the expanding activity, the Republicans oppose
government spending and expanding the money supply, the exact opposite
of what is needed right now. The spendthrift Republicans who allowed
international money changers to scoop up and gamble away most of the
available cash have now become thrifty nannies who think the way to
prosperity is for government to sit back and allow the international
bankers to control the rate of America's recovery.

There will be no recovery to 1990s prosperity. The bankers cleaned us out.

On 10-05-26 01:30 PM, bpnjensen wrote:

So, being 'Greek', a 'socialist' and an 'emigrant' has just exactly what
to do with the Greek economy collapsing?

Presumably, you are an American (and unless you are a Native American,
you are also an emigrant)...so to follow your reasoning, that would make
you responsible for the current American Depression.

Sounds fair to me ;-)

On 5/26/2010 4:11 PM, m II wrote:

'Immigrant' is someone who comes INTO your country. 'Emigrant' is
someone who LEAVES your country.

Mea Culpa, my bad and touche...

(all I can say in my defense is that I was quoting, and trying to be
consistent with, Fred B. Brown, the OP.)

I don't have a clue why one word has two 'm's in it.

All I can say here is, how often do you see m II posting about two m's?

nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!!!

On May 26, 11:51*am, "Fred B. Brown" wrote:
"bpnjensen" wrote in message

...
On May 26, 7:48 am, dave wrote:

Fred B. Brown wrote:

Arianna Stasinopoulos Huffington is a 'real' financial expert. She's
a Greek Socialist emigrant, considering that the Greek economy
is collapsing I take what she has to say with a grain of salt.

Really? I remember her as a flaming right winger back in the day.

She changed - she ditched the hubby and went left pretty hard.

Powered by a big V-8, twin turbochargers and a lead foot on
the accelerator pedal.

Arianna's mother Elli was active in the Communist-led Greek resistance
movement during World War II.
Her journalist father Constantine edited the resistance newspaper
Paron.

In England Arianna attended Cambridge University, where she studied
Keynesian economics at Girton College and one of her tutors was the
Maoist economist Joan Robinson.

In 2000 Arianna Huffington was deeply involved in staging the “Shadow
Conventions” designed as media propaganda shows to undermine
Republicans and nudge Democrats farther to the political left. These
mock “conventions” were organized by the “Shadow Party” organizations
funded by George Soros and other wealthy leftists.

Much mo
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/i...asp?indid=2010

On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:15:59 -0700, dave wrote:

Fred B. Brown wrote:

And now that crippled US economy is rebounding and more money is needed
to fund the expanding activity, the Republicans oppose government
spending and expanding the money supply, the exact opposite of what is
needed right now. The spendthrift Republicans who allowed
international money changers to scoop up and gamble away most of the
available cash have now become thrifty nannies who think the way to
prosperity is for government to sit back and allow the international
bankers to control the rate of America's recovery.

There will be no recovery to 1990s prosperity. The bankers cleaned us
out.

Spoken like a true gold bug.



--
"Senate rules don't trump the Constitution" -- http://GreaterVoice.org/60

On 10-05-26 06:58 PM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

I don't have a clue why one word has two 'm's in it.

All I can say here is, how often do you see m II posting about two m's?

nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!!!


Weird..I was listening to Martha and the Muffins while I did it.


The OTHER M&M bunch:

http://www.m-ms.com/us/





mike

On May 26, 11:15*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
bpnjensen wrote:
On May 26, 10:52*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
bpnjensen wrote:

Ah, that's right - another one of those right-wing gays! :-)

That's what always seemed so ironic about Log Cabin Republicans.

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

But what could be more delicious than irony? *Speaking of which,
please pass the syrup... ;-)

- Would that be Ms Butterworth or Aunt Jemima?

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

-fwiw- Mrs Butterworth has a moustache.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Butterworth%27s

Michael Coburn wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:15:59 -0700, dave wrote:


There will be no recovery to 1990s prosperity. The bankers cleaned us
out.

Spoken like a true gold bug.

No gold. I can fix a radio.

On May 26, 11:15*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
bpnjensen wrote:
On May 26, 10:52*am, Bob Dobbs wrote:
bpnjensen wrote:

Ah, that's right - another one of those right-wing gays! :-)

That's what always seemed so ironic about Log Cabin Republicans.

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

But what could be more delicious than irony? *Speaking of which,
please pass the syrup... ;-)

Would that be Ms Butterworth or Aunt Jemima?

Why - Log Cabin, of course! :-D

On May 27, 7:53*am, dave wrote:
Michael Coburn wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:15:59 -0700, dave wrote:

There will be no recovery to 1990s prosperity. The bankers cleaned us
out.

Spoken like a true gold bug.

No gold. *I can fix a radio.

I hear gold is especially good for oxide-free contacts,,, ;-)