On Mar 19, 6:49*pm, RHF wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:19*pm, bpnjensen wrote:









Today, in anticipation of a pretty substantial windstorm tonight, I
decided to add the next piece of the new antenna puzzle - this time,
the structural counterweight. *Tugging on the antenna line, I figured
it might need upwards of 15 pounds to hold it in place without much
sag - so I grabbed a gallon jug filled with water and went up to the
rope, just to get it started. *I did not bother to get out the
calculator and physics book to try to predict it ;-)

Lo and behold, I placed the jug on the support rope and it was too
much weight. *It kept that wire nearly horizontal, suggesting that the
tension was pretty high. *I would up leaving about 5 pints/pounds
water in the jug, and I may even empty a bit more.

So - it doesn't take much counterweight to hold up 65 feet of 14 gauge
stranded insulated wire with an acceptable sag. And now, let the wind
blow!

Just for future reference :-)

BpnJ,

Roughly 65 Feet of 14 AWG Stranded Insulated Wire
is 1.6 Pounds -so- 3X = 4.8 Pounds [5 Lbs] should do
as a Counter-Weight for the Antenna Wire.
[~25 Lbs per 1000 Feet of #14 AWG]

One US Gallon of Water is ~ 8.3 Pounds
-or- ~ 2 Pounds per Quart & 1 Pound per Pinthttp://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_one_gallon_of_water_weigh

A One Foot 'Sag' per 100 Feet Span is not bad {OK}
-no-sag-is-better-no-sag-is-better-no-sag-is-better-

Realistically -if- You have Good Quality Antenna Rigging
'Anchor' Hardware that is Installed Properly at each end :
Plus Good 1/8" Poly Rope = Breaking strength 200+ Lbs.
And *Good #14 Antenna Wire = Breaking strength 200+ Lbs.
-therefore-an- Antenna Counter-Weight @ 10% could
easily and Safely be ~20 Lbs {Tight with NO Sag}

TIP : The Less the Antenna Wire 'Sags' : The Less It Moves
in-the-air with the wind and elements; and that is Less Wear
at the Ends {Rigging Points} Due to Movement on the Ends.
-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-

Antenna Wire see Item # 541 herehttp://www.thewireman.com/antennap.html

Poly Antenna Rigging Rope see Item # 814 herehttp://www.thewireman.com/antacc.html

(o: *If You take another Look at that Sagging-Down
Antenna Wire when there is a Full Moon Directly
Overhead : You May Notice It Is Sagging-Up ;;-}}
nitt? ~ RHF
*.
*.
SWL Newbies : Matching the Antenna Ballast
Weight to the Wire Antenna Elementhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4289a54e1646d5b2
*.
*.

I'm a lot more worried about the fact that my treetops can sway up to
about 5 feet in a windstorm, meaning a lot more than 20 lbs tension
on that wire. A little sag (like about 1 foot) along with the
pulleyed counterweight seems prudent to me. I could be talked out of
this, but I think a snapping wire is definitely in the cards.

In article c28a2772-2e94-4396-984d-
, says...

On Mar 20, 10:02*am, BDK wrote:
In article 2aabe520-ea4e-473f-823a-
, says...











On Mar 19, 6:49 pm, RHF wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:19 pm, bpnjensen wrote:

Today, in anticipation of a pretty substantial windstorm tonight, I
decided to add the next piece of the new antenna puzzle - this time,
the structural counterweight. Tugging on the antenna line, I figured
it might need upwards of 15 pounds to hold it in place without much
sag - so I grabbed a gallon jug filled with water and went up to the
rope, just to get it started. I did not bother to get out the
calculator and physics book to try to predict it ;-)

Lo and behold, I placed the jug on the support rope and it was too
much weight. It kept that wire nearly horizontal, suggesting that the
tension was pretty high. I would up leaving about 5 pints/pounds
water in the jug, and I may even empty a bit more.

So - it doesn't take much counterweight to hold up 65 feet of 14 gauge
stranded insulated wire with an acceptable sag. And now, let the wind
blow!

Just for future reference :-)

BpnJ,

Roughly 65 Feet of 14 AWG Stranded Insulated Wire
is 1.6 Pounds -so- 3X = 4.8 Pounds [5 Lbs] should do
as a Counter-Weight for the Antenna Wire.
[~25 Lbs per 1000 Feet of #14 AWG]

One US Gallon of Water is ~ 8.3 Pounds
-or- ~ 2 Pounds per Quart & 1 Pound per Pinthttp://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_one_gallon_of_water_weigh

A One Foot 'Sag' per 100 Feet Span is not bad {OK}
-no-sag-is-better-no-sag-is-better-no-sag-is-better-

Realistically -if- You have Good Quality Antenna Rigging
'Anchor' Hardware that is Installed Properly at each end :
Plus Good 1/8" Poly Rope = Breaking strength 200+ Lbs.
And Good #14 Antenna Wire = Breaking strength 200+ Lbs.
-therefore-an- Antenna Counter-Weight @ 10% could
easily and Safely be ~20 Lbs {Tight with NO Sag}

TIP : The Less the Antenna Wire 'Sags' : The Less It Moves
in-the-air with the wind and elements; and that is Less Wear
at the Ends {Rigging Points} Due to Movement on the Ends.
-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-

Antenna Wire see Item # 541 herehttp://www.thewireman.com/antennap.html

Poly Antenna Rigging Rope see Item # 814 herehttp://www.thewireman.com/antacc.html

(o: If You take another Look at that Sagging-Down
Antenna Wire when there is a Full Moon Directly
Overhead : You May Notice It Is Sagging-Up ;;-}}
nitt? ~ RHF
.
.
SWL Newbies : Matching the Antenna Ballast
Weight to the Wire Antenna Elementhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4289a54e1646d5b2
.
.

I'm a lot more worried about the fact that my treetops can sway up to
about 5 feet in a *windstorm, meaning a lot more than 20 lbs tension
on that wire. *A little sag (like about 1 foot) along with the
pulleyed counterweight seems prudent to me. *I could be talked out of
this, but I think a snapping wire is definitely in the cards.

I use a 10' piece of 1+1/2" PVC pipe instead of a weight. I put a 90
degree elbow at the top, and an adaptor to a plug. The plug is drilled
out, and I put a stainless eye bolt through it, with a big washer on the
inside to keep it from wearing through. The pipe is stuck in the ground,
and hose clamed to a fence post in two places. There is about 4-5 feet
sticking out above the fence. I had two pieces to raise it up in the
past, but I saw no difference, so I just use one now. The rope is put
through the eye twice, so there's a loop, and the end is tied to the
fence rail, and the knots have crazy glue dripped into them to make them
permanent. This set up moves a lot when it's windy, and if I replace the
rope every five years or so, never comes down. I got some of that
expensive black stuff years ago, and it stayed up 10 years. The wire is
kept snug, but not tight, and it's cheap. The pipe lasts about 10 years
bare, but longer if you paint it. Painting it is a hassle (Most paint
doesn't stick well), so I don't.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!

It sounds like you are describing the pipe acting as a spring load -
is that right?

Yep, in a way, but it's mainly a tension release. When it bends either
way, the rope has a little slack in it, and when it goes back up
straight, it's fairly tight. You don't want it tight enough to bend the
pipe in a dead calm wind. If you do, the rope will usually break in a
year or so. It works a lot better than the weight on the end of the rope
did, and it lasts longer. I got the idea after seeing a neigbor's home
brewed flagpole made out of the PVC pipe blowing back and forth during a
storm. When the wind really gets going, the pipe looks like it's alive.
The top doesn't move much, because of the rope being snug, but it bends
and releases in the middle, above the fence, constantly. In case you
were wondering, the rope is tied to the fence about a foot and a half or
so behind the pipe. I remember when a friend was helping me up the
antenna up and doing the PVC pipe the first time, he thought it was
"just a weird idea", but when he came over years later, and saw it out
there, he was impressed that it was still up, with the original rope.

I'm on my 4th piece of PVC now. When the UV gets to it, it gets brittle,
and it will shatter if hit with anything more than a light blow with a
hammer.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!

In article 79bab742-2fec-482b-aad4-b2471fed0849@
22g2000prx.googlegroups.com, says...

On Mar 20, 10:02*am, BDK wrote:
In article 2aabe520-ea4e-473f-823a-
, says...











On Mar 19, 6:49 pm, RHF wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:19 pm, bpnjensen wrote:

Today, in anticipation of a pretty substantial windstorm tonight, I
decided to add the next piece of the new antenna puzzle - this time,
the structural counterweight. Tugging on the antenna line, I figured
it might need upwards of 15 pounds to hold it in place without much
sag - so I grabbed a gallon jug filled with water and went up to the
rope, just to get it started. I did not bother to get out the
calculator and physics book to try to predict it ;-)

Lo and behold, I placed the jug on the support rope and it was too
much weight. It kept that wire nearly horizontal, suggesting that the
tension was pretty high. I would up leaving about 5 pints/pounds
water in the jug, and I may even empty a bit more.

So - it doesn't take much counterweight to hold up 65 feet of 14 gauge
stranded insulated wire with an acceptable sag. And now, let the wind
blow!

Just for future reference :-)

BpnJ,

Roughly 65 Feet of 14 AWG Stranded Insulated Wire
is 1.6 Pounds -so- 3X = 4.8 Pounds [5 Lbs] should do
as a Counter-Weight for the Antenna Wire.
[~25 Lbs per 1000 Feet of #14 AWG]

One US Gallon of Water is ~ 8.3 Pounds
-or- ~ 2 Pounds per Quart & 1 Pound per Pinthttp://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_one_gallon_of_water_weigh

A One Foot 'Sag' per 100 Feet Span is not bad {OK}
-no-sag-is-better-no-sag-is-better-no-sag-is-better-

Realistically -if- You have Good Quality Antenna Rigging
'Anchor' Hardware that is Installed Properly at each end :
Plus Good 1/8" Poly Rope = Breaking strength 200+ Lbs.
And Good #14 Antenna Wire = Breaking strength 200+ Lbs.
-therefore-an- Antenna Counter-Weight @ 10% could
easily and Safely be ~20 Lbs {Tight with NO Sag}

TIP : The Less the Antenna Wire 'Sags' : The Less It Moves
in-the-air with the wind and elements; and that is Less Wear
at the Ends {Rigging Points} Due to Movement on the Ends.
-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-no-sag-is-good-

Antenna Wire see Item # 541 herehttp://www.thewireman.com/antennap.html

Poly Antenna Rigging Rope see Item # 814 herehttp://www.thewireman.com/antacc.html

(o: If You take another Look at that Sagging-Down
Antenna Wire when there is a Full Moon Directly
Overhead : You May Notice It Is Sagging-Up ;;-}}
nitt? ~ RHF
.
.
SWL Newbies : Matching the Antenna Ballast
Weight to the Wire Antenna Elementhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4289a54e1646d5b2
.
.

I'm a lot more worried about the fact that my treetops can sway up to
about 5 feet in a *windstorm, meaning a lot more than 20 lbs tension
on that wire. *A little sag (like about 1 foot) along with the
pulleyed counterweight seems prudent to me. *I could be talked out of
this, but I think a snapping wire is definitely in the cards.

I use a 10' piece of 1+1/2" PVC pipe instead of a weight. I put a 90
degree elbow at the top, and an adaptor to a plug. The plug is drilled
out, and I put a stainless eye bolt through it, with a big washer on the
inside to keep it from wearing through. The pipe is stuck in the ground,
and hose clamed to a fence post in two places. There is about 4-5 feet
sticking out above the fence. I had two pieces to raise it up in the
past, but I saw no difference, so I just use one now. The rope is put
through the eye twice, so there's a loop, and the end is tied to the
fence rail, and the knots have crazy glue dripped into them to make them
permanent. This set up moves a lot when it's windy, and if I replace the
rope every five years or so, never comes down. I got some of that
expensive black stuff years ago, and it stayed up 10 years. The wire is
kept snug, but not tight, and it's cheap. The pipe lasts about 10 years
bare, but longer if you paint it. Painting it is a hassle (Most paint
doesn't stick well), so I don't.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!

BTW, I have polyester rope that's been up for ten years and, aside
from being dirty, shows no sign at all of any wear or deterioration.
I bought it at Orchard Supply Hardware. It will probably outlast me.

Bruce - Halfway up the government shill heap for 20 years this week ;-)

I don't know what made the black stuff I had break, I bought it at one
of the antenna places by mail order. I had some "cotton covered clothes
line" and used that to fix it.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!