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  #21   Report Post  
Old July 4th 11, 05:22 AM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 376
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

In article cb4cb78f-f72c-4a20-9df0-af82c46e1a13
@j15g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jul 3, 5:55*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 7/3/2011 9:08 AM, Wimpie wrote:





On 26 jun, 16:09, John *wrote:
On 6/26/2011 3:28 AM, Wimpie wrote:


...
Hello John,


I hope your contributions came of out your mind under influence of
drugs, alcohol, etc, and that you stop using it any further. *If not,
I have to be more afraid of you instead of 1000 *gays.


Wim


I find it to be the truth. *At first I thought, live and let live. *But,
since the arseholes have made a ****-mess of everything and continue to
make it worse, it is time to speak up and tell them their place and that
enough is enough.


Can you give some examples of the "****-mess", as I can't find any.


We don't want a world of queer homosexual, child molesters and perverts.


Abusers you have across all kind of people, but it doesn't mean that
being gay equals abuse. So I don't see why you put "queer homosexual,
child molesters and perverts" into the same bin.


It is a good standard of living, a nice place to raise children, etc.
which is of importance ... I think everyone has run out of patience with
the silly *******s.


Regards,
JS


So in my opinion, your statements miss any basis.


Regards,


Wim


They are abusing/perverting/destroying the right to the churches
tradition, marriage.

True, their act of perverting marriage is more like imbeciles painting
graffiti on an unblemished wall, but totally attempts to redefine
marriage to cover bonds/acts/commitments which are 180 degrees in
opposition to a tradition held by churches since the dawn of recorded
history, as old as the great flood itself, older even.

I see it as no less an abomination than if Childrens' Protective
Services suddenly decided to endorse and support NAMBLA!

Or, a kindergarten teacher inviting a child molester to speak to the
class, it would be the EXACT logic which would allow it.

Etc.

Regards,
JS- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


get serious treatment for your filled


It's probably to late for that.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!
  #22   Report Post  
Old July 4th 11, 06:16 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
J R J R is offline
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2011
Posts: 543
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

Sting like a Bee! an Evil, Evil Bumble Bee!

I had to watch Chang movie on TCM channel.

Say Nite Nite doggy.
///WOO WOO WOOF!///
cuhulin

  #23   Report Post  
Old July 5th 11, 06:25 AM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 376
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

In article b846b905-c4e3-4448-92d7-
, says...

On Jul 4, 12:22*am, BDK wrote:
In article cb4cb78f-f72c-4a20-9df0-af82c46e1a13
@j15g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says...







On Jul 3, 5:55 pm, John Smith wrote:
On 7/3/2011 9:08 AM, Wimpie wrote:


On 26 jun, 16:09, John wrote:
On 6/26/2011 3:28 AM, Wimpie wrote:


...
Hello John,


I hope your contributions came of out your mind under influence of
drugs, alcohol, etc, and that you stop using it any further. If not,
I have to be more afraid of you instead of 1000 gays.


Wim


I find it to be the truth. At first I thought, live and let live. But,
since the arseholes have made a ****-mess of everything and continue to
make it worse, it is time to speak up and tell them their place and that
enough is enough.


Can you give some examples of the "****-mess", as I can't find any.


We don't want a world of queer homosexual, child molesters and perverts.


Abusers you have across all kind of people, but it doesn't mean that
being gay equals abuse. So I don't see why you put "queer homosexual,
child molesters and perverts" into the same bin.


It is a good standard of living, a nice place to raise children, etc.
which is of importance ... I think everyone has run out of patience with
the silly *******s.


Regards,
JS


So in my opinion, your statements miss any basis.


Regards,


Wim


They are abusing/perverting/destroying the right to the churches
tradition, marriage.


True, their act of perverting marriage is more like imbeciles painting
graffiti on an unblemished wall, but totally attempts to redefine
marriage to cover bonds/acts/commitments which are 180 degrees in
opposition to a tradition held by churches since the dawn of recorded
history, as old as the great flood itself, older even.


I see it as no less an abomination than if Childrens' Protective
Services suddenly decided to endorse and support NAMBLA!


Or, a kindergarten teacher inviting a child molester to speak to the
class, it would be the EXACT logic which would allow it.


Etc.


Regards,
JS- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


get serious treatment for your filled


It's probably to late for that.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


as long as he is alive it is not too late


You're a "glass is always half full" person, aren't you?

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!
  #24   Report Post  
Old July 5th 11, 09:51 PM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2008
Posts: 329
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

El 03-07-11 23:55, John Smith escribió:
On 7/3/2011 9:08 AM, Wimpie wrote:
On 26 jun, 16:09, John wrote:
On 6/26/2011 3:28 AM, Wimpie wrote:

...
Hello John,

I hope your contributions came of out your mind under influence of
drugs, alcohol, etc, and that you stop using it any further. If not,
I have to be more afraid of you instead of 1000 gays.

Wim

I find it to be the truth. At first I thought, live and let live. But,
since the arseholes have made a ****-mess of everything and
continue to
make it worse, it is time to speak up and tell them their place and
that
enough is enough.


Can you give some examples of the "****-mess", as I can't find any.


We don't want a world of queer homosexual, child molesters and
perverts.


Abusers you have across all kind of people, but it doesn't mean that
being gay equals abuse. So I don't see why you put "queer homosexual,
child molesters and perverts" into the same bin.

It is a good standard of living, a nice place to raise children, etc.
which is of importance ... I think everyone has run out of patience
with
the silly *******s.

Regards,
JS


So in my opinion, your statements miss any basis.

Regards,

Wim


They are abusing/perverting/destroying the right to the churches
tradition, marriage.



Not agree, they don't interfere, they just want equal rights with
regards to marriage.


True, their act of perverting marriage is more like imbeciles painting
graffiti on an unblemished wall, but totally attempts to redefine
marriage to cover bonds/acts/commitments which are 180 degrees in
opposition to a tradition held by churches since the dawn of recorded
history, as old as the great flood itself, older even.


Sorry, I can't find any correlation with the subject.


I see it as no less an abomination than if Childrens' Protective
Services suddenly decided to endorse and support NAMBLA!

Or, a kindergarten teacher inviting a child molester to speak to the
class, it would be the EXACT logic which would allow it.


The relation between being gay and child abuse has not been proven, so
again, your statement is not relevant.

Etc.

Regards,
JS


I think it is dangerous for establishing a good society to use
supposed statistics on a single person or some persons. I know, on a
statistical basis there are differences among various groups (think of
latino's, blacks, jews, muslims, native Americans, gays, etc).

However the difference in mean values with respect to the standard
deviation is too small to apply on a single person or a small group.

When I had to apply the (supposed) statistics, I have to abandon
professional and non-professional relationships with many people I
know. Several are black, white, Spanish speaking, muslim, gay, etc....

So best is to use judgment instead of prejudice.

Regards,

Wim
  #25   Report Post  
Old July 5th 11, 09:57 PM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,027
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

On Jul 5, 1:51*pm, Wimpie wrote:
El 03-07-11 23:55, John Smith escribió:





On 7/3/2011 9:08 AM, Wimpie wrote:
On 26 jun, 16:09, John wrote:
On 6/26/2011 3:28 AM, Wimpie wrote:


...
Hello John,


I hope your contributions came of out your mind under influence of
drugs, alcohol, etc, and that you stop using it any further. If not,
I have to be more afraid of you instead of 1000 gays.


Wim


I find it to be the truth. At first I thought, live and let live. But,
since the arseholes have made a ****-mess of everything and
continue to
make it worse, it is time to speak up and tell them their place and
that
enough is enough.


Can you give some examples of the "****-mess", as I can't find any.


We don't want a world of queer homosexual, child molesters and
perverts.


Abusers you have across all kind of people, but it doesn't mean that
being gay equals abuse. So I don't see why you put "queer homosexual,
child molesters and perverts" into the same bin.


It is a good standard of living, a nice place to raise children, etc.
which is of importance ... I think everyone has run out of patience
with
the silly *******s.


Regards,
JS


So in my opinion, your statements miss any basis.


Regards,


Wim


They are abusing/perverting/destroying the right to the churches
tradition, marriage.


Not agree, they don't interfere, they just want equal rights with
regards to marriage.



True, their act of perverting marriage is more like imbeciles painting
graffiti on an unblemished wall, but totally attempts to redefine
marriage to cover bonds/acts/commitments which are 180 degrees in
opposition to a tradition held by churches since the dawn of recorded
history, as old as the great flood itself, older even.


Sorry, I can't find any correlation with the subject.



I see it as no less an abomination than if Childrens' Protective
Services suddenly decided to endorse and support NAMBLA!


Or, a kindergarten teacher inviting a child molester to speak to the
class, it would be the EXACT logic which would allow it.


The relation between being gay and child abuse has not been proven, so
again, your statement is not relevant.



Etc.


Regards,
JS


I think it is dangerous for establishing a good society to use
supposed statistics on a single person or some persons. * I know, on a
statistical basis there are differences among various groups (think of
latino's, blacks, jews, muslims, native Americans, gays, etc).

However the difference in mean values with respect to the standard
deviation is too small to apply on a single person or a small group.

When I had to apply the (supposed) statistics, I have to abandon
professional and non-professional relationships with many people I
know. Several are black, white, Spanish speaking, muslim, gay, etc....

So best is to use judgment instead of prejudice.

Regards,

Wim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Wimpie - the United States has officially abandoned judgment,
objectivity and science in favor of prejudice and ignorance and
religious fantasy. We are now the most backward and ignorant nation
on the planet, our philosophy now grounded roughly in the year 1327,
and regressing rather quickly to even earlier epochs. This John Smith
guy is a glowing symptom of that sickness which has overcome our
nation. You folks in Europe would be best to just write us off.

Bruce Jensen


  #26   Report Post  
Old July 5th 11, 10:46 PM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
RHF RHF is offline
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,652
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

On Jun 26, 11:12*am, John Smith wrote:
On 6/26/2011 10:41 AM, RHF wrote:



- And, you really can't ask them to drop
- their drawers for you, now can you?


Well... If you are a TSP 'Checker' you can ;;-}}
-a-real-'hands-on'-job-
* .


Uh, I think that is TSA, but I think most would realize that.

LOL, good point!

Regards,
JS


Most of the former TSA 'A' -for- Assholes...
and now TSP 'P' for Perverts ! - imho ~ RHF
  #27   Report Post  
Old July 6th 11, 03:38 AM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2011
Posts: 160
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

On 7/5/2011 1:57 PM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Jul 5, 1:51 pm, wrote:
El 03-07-11 23:55, John Smith escribió:





On 7/3/2011 9:08 AM, Wimpie wrote:
On 26 jun, 16:09, John wrote:
On 6/26/2011 3:28 AM, Wimpie wrote:


...
Hello John,


I hope your contributions came of out your mind under influence of
drugs, alcohol, etc, and that you stop using it any further. If not,
I have to be more afraid of you instead of 1000 gays.


Wim


I find it to be the truth. At first I thought, live and let live. But,
since the arseholes have made a ****-mess of everything and
continue to
make it worse, it is time to speak up and tell them their place and
that
enough is enough.


Can you give some examples of the "****-mess", as I can't find any.


We don't want a world of queer homosexual, child molesters and
perverts.


Abusers you have across all kind of people, but it doesn't mean that
being gay equals abuse. So I don't see why you put "queer homosexual,
child molesters and perverts" into the same bin.


It is a good standard of living, a nice place to raise children, etc.
which is of importance ... I think everyone has run out of patience
with
the silly *******s.


Regards,
JS


So in my opinion, your statements miss any basis.


Regards,


Wim


They are abusing/perverting/destroying the right to the churches
tradition, marriage.


Not agree, they don't interfere, they just want equal rights with
regards to marriage.



True, their act of perverting marriage is more like imbeciles painting
graffiti on an unblemished wall, but totally attempts to redefine
marriage to cover bonds/acts/commitments which are 180 degrees in
opposition to a tradition held by churches since the dawn of recorded
history, as old as the great flood itself, older even.


Sorry, I can't find any correlation with the subject.



I see it as no less an abomination than if Childrens' Protective
Services suddenly decided to endorse and support NAMBLA!


Or, a kindergarten teacher inviting a child molester to speak to the
class, it would be the EXACT logic which would allow it.


The relation between being gay and child abuse has not been proven, so
again, your statement is not relevant.



Etc.


Regards,
JS


I think it is dangerous for establishing a good society to use
supposed statistics on a single person or some persons. I know, on a
statistical basis there are differences among various groups (think of
latino's, blacks, jews, muslims, native Americans, gays, etc).

However the difference in mean values with respect to the standard
deviation is too small to apply on a single person or a small group.

When I had to apply the (supposed) statistics, I have to abandon
professional and non-professional relationships with many people I
know. Several are black, white, Spanish speaking, muslim, gay, etc....

So best is to use judgment instead of prejudice.

Regards,

Wim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Wimpie - the United States has officially abandoned judgment,
objectivity and science in favor of prejudice and ignorance and
religious fantasy. We are now the most backward and ignorant nation
on the planet, our philosophy now grounded roughly in the year 1327,
and regressing rather quickly to even earlier epochs. This John Smith
guy is a glowing symptom of that sickness which has overcome our
nation. You folks in Europe would be best to just write us off.

Bruce Jensen


.... and, on your way out the door, take brucie-boy with you ...

Regards,
JS

  #28   Report Post  
Old July 6th 11, 04:45 AM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,027
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

On Jul 5, 7:38*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 7/5/2011 1:57 PM, bpnjensen wrote:









On Jul 5, 1:51 pm, *wrote:
El 03-07-11 23:55, John Smith escribió:


On 7/3/2011 9:08 AM, Wimpie wrote:
On 26 jun, 16:09, John *wrote:
On 6/26/2011 3:28 AM, Wimpie wrote:


...
Hello John,


I hope your contributions came of out your mind under influence of
drugs, alcohol, etc, and that you stop using it any further. If not,
I have to be more afraid of you instead of 1000 gays.


Wim


I find it to be the truth. At first I thought, live and let live. But,
since the arseholes have made a ****-mess of everything and
continue to
make it worse, it is time to speak up and tell them their place and
that
enough is enough.


Can you give some examples of the "****-mess", as I can't find any.


We don't want a world of queer homosexual, child molesters and
perverts.


Abusers you have across all kind of people, but it doesn't mean that
being gay equals abuse. So I don't see why you put "queer homosexual,
child molesters and perverts" into the same bin.


It is a good standard of living, a nice place to raise children, etc.
which is of importance ... I think everyone has run out of patience
with
the silly *******s.


Regards,
JS


So in my opinion, your statements miss any basis.


Regards,


Wim


They are abusing/perverting/destroying the right to the churches
tradition, marriage.


Not agree, they don't interfere, they just want equal rights with
regards to marriage.


True, their act of perverting marriage is more like imbeciles painting
graffiti on an unblemished wall, but totally attempts to redefine
marriage to cover bonds/acts/commitments which are 180 degrees in
opposition to a tradition held by churches since the dawn of recorded
history, as old as the great flood itself, older even.


Sorry, I can't find any correlation with the subject.


I see it as no less an abomination than if Childrens' Protective
Services suddenly decided to endorse and support NAMBLA!


Or, a kindergarten teacher inviting a child molester to speak to the
class, it would be the EXACT logic which would allow it.


The relation between being gay and child abuse has not been proven, so
again, your statement is not relevant.


Etc.


Regards,
JS


I think it is dangerous for establishing a good society to use
supposed statistics on a single person or some persons. * I know, on a
statistical basis there are differences among various groups (think of
latino's, blacks, jews, muslims, native Americans, gays, etc).


However the difference in mean values with respect to the standard
deviation is too small to apply on a single person or a small group.


When I had to apply the (supposed) statistics, I have to abandon
professional and non-professional relationships with many people I
know. Several are black, white, Spanish speaking, muslim, gay, etc....


So best is to use judgment instead of prejudice.


Regards,


Wim- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Wimpie - the United States has officially abandoned judgment,
objectivity and science in favor of prejudice and ignorance and
religious fantasy. *We are now the most backward and ignorant nation
on the planet, our philosophy now grounded roughly in the year 1327,
and regressing rather quickly to even earlier epochs. *This John Smith
guy is a glowing symptom of that sickness which has overcome our
nation. *You folks in Europe would be best to just write us off.


Bruce Jensen


... and, on your way out the door, take brucie-boy with you ...

Regards,
JS


The Neanderthal speaketh.
  #29   Report Post  
Old July 6th 11, 02:21 PM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 376
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

In article ab2e4131-80c2-416e-85fc-
, says...

On Jul 5, 1:25*am, BDK wrote:
In article b846b905-c4e3-4448-92d7-
, says...







On Jul 4, 12:22 am, BDK wrote:
In article cb4cb78f-f72c-4a20-9df0-af82c46e1a13
@j15g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says...


On Jul 3, 5:55 pm, John Smith wrote:
On 7/3/2011 9:08 AM, Wimpie wrote:


On 26 jun, 16:09, John wrote:
On 6/26/2011 3:28 AM, Wimpie wrote:


...
Hello John,


I hope your contributions came of out your mind under influence of
drugs, alcohol, etc, and that you stop using it any further. If not,
I have to be more afraid of you instead of 1000 gays.


Wim


I find it to be the truth. At first I thought, live and let live. But,
since the arseholes have made a ****-mess of everything and continue to
make it worse, it is time to speak up and tell them their place and that
enough is enough.


Can you give some examples of the "****-mess", as I can't find any.


We don't want a world of queer homosexual, child molesters and perverts.


Abusers you have across all kind of people, but it doesn't mean that
being gay equals abuse. So I don't see why you put "queer homosexual,
child molesters and perverts" into the same bin.


It is a good standard of living, a nice place to raise children, etc.
which is of importance ... I think everyone has run out of patience with
the silly *******s.


Regards,
JS


So in my opinion, your statements miss any basis.


Regards,


Wim


They are abusing/perverting/destroying the right to the churches
tradition, marriage.


True, their act of perverting marriage is more like imbeciles painting
graffiti on an unblemished wall, but totally attempts to redefine
marriage to cover bonds/acts/commitments which are 180 degrees in
opposition to a tradition held by churches since the dawn of recorded
history, as old as the great flood itself, older even.


I see it as no less an abomination than if Childrens' Protective
Services suddenly decided to endorse and support NAMBLA!


Or, a kindergarten teacher inviting a child molester to speak to the
class, it would be the EXACT logic which would allow it.


Etc.


Regards,
JS- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


get serious treatment for your filled


It's probably to late for that.


--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


as long as he is alive it is not too late


You're a "glass is always half full" person, aren't you?


not really but treatment can help JS mhow much is another q

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Well, I suppose it couldn't hurt to try.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!
  #30   Report Post  
Old July 6th 11, 02:22 PM posted to talk.politics.guns,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 376
Default NY Legislature legalizes gay marriage

In article f8e6750a-fe1d-49b4-b4db-dd2477236f51
@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jul 5, 7:38*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 7/5/2011 1:57 PM, bpnjensen wrote:









On Jul 5, 1:51 pm, *wrote:
El 03-07-11 23:55, John Smith escribió:


On 7/3/2011 9:08 AM, Wimpie wrote:
On 26 jun, 16:09, John *wrote:
On 6/26/2011 3:28 AM, Wimpie wrote:


...
Hello John,


I hope your contributions came of out your mind under influence of
drugs, alcohol, etc, and that you stop using it any further. If not,
I have to be more afraid of you instead of 1000 gays.


Wim


I find it to be the truth. At first I thought, live and let live. But,
since the arseholes have made a ****-mess of everything and
continue to
make it worse, it is time to speak up and tell them their place and
that
enough is enough.


Can you give some examples of the "****-mess", as I can't find any.


We don't want a world of queer homosexual, child molesters and
perverts.


Abusers you have across all kind of people, but it doesn't mean that
being gay equals abuse. So I don't see why you put "queer homosexual,
child molesters and perverts" into the same bin.


It is a good standard of living, a nice place to raise children, etc.
which is of importance ... I think everyone has run out of patience
with
the silly *******s.


Regards,
JS


So in my opinion, your statements miss any basis.


Regards,


Wim


They are abusing/perverting/destroying the right to the churches
tradition, marriage.


Not agree, they don't interfere, they just want equal rights with
regards to marriage.


True, their act of perverting marriage is more like imbeciles painting
graffiti on an unblemished wall, but totally attempts to redefine
marriage to cover bonds/acts/commitments which are 180 degrees in
opposition to a tradition held by churches since the dawn of recorded
history, as old as the great flood itself, older even.


Sorry, I can't find any correlation with the subject.


I see it as no less an abomination than if Childrens' Protective
Services suddenly decided to endorse and support NAMBLA!


Or, a kindergarten teacher inviting a child molester to speak to the
class, it would be the EXACT logic which would allow it.


The relation between being gay and child abuse has not been proven, so
again, your statement is not relevant.


Etc.


Regards,
JS


I think it is dangerous for establishing a good society to use
supposed statistics on a single person or some persons. * I know, on a
statistical basis there are differences among various groups (think of
latino's, blacks, jews, muslims, native Americans, gays, etc).


However the difference in mean values with respect to the standard
deviation is too small to apply on a single person or a small group.


When I had to apply the (supposed) statistics, I have to abandon
professional and non-professional relationships with many people I
know. Several are black, white, Spanish speaking, muslim, gay, etc....


So best is to use judgment instead of prejudice.


Regards,


Wim- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Wimpie - the United States has officially abandoned judgment,
objectivity and science in favor of prejudice and ignorance and
religious fantasy. *We are now the most backward and ignorant nation
on the planet, our philosophy now grounded roughly in the year 1327,
and regressing rather quickly to even earlier epochs. *This John Smith
guy is a glowing symptom of that sickness which has overcome our
nation. *You folks in Europe would be best to just write us off.


Bruce Jensen


... and, on your way out the door, take brucie-boy with you ...

Regards,
JS


The Neanderthal speaketh.


Please don't insult the Neanderthals. He's far below them. I think of
him as a Lemur, something like that.

--
BDK- Top of the government shill heap for over 10 years running!
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