"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 7/2/2011 3:23 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On 7/2/2011 12:22 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

...

We don't even have a money system, we have a system based on debt. You
need to learn the difference between the two.

I'm not sure how you decide it's a "system based on debt." In regards to
our
national accounts, since 1980, we've accumulated about a year's worth of
GDP
in debt. So it's mostly not debt.

Do you have a better explanation for what you mean?


Here is a spoon feeding, it seems there is bunch of you guys who were
sleeping or lack the where-with-all to get a grip on it:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...rom082307.html

Eh, I should have remembered: the Grignon pitch. This Nystrom guy appears to
be a small fry who's parroting Grignon's economic theories, which are
re-writes of Murray Rothbard, Lew Rockwell, snd some others in the Austrian
School clan.

The short take is that it doesn't matter that the debt is greater than the
amount of money in circulation. The proof is that debt does not expand
exponentially with the creation of new money, as Grignon says it must. The
reasons are that there are many monetary actions that central banks use to
control money supply; the money multiplier inherent in fractional-reserve
banking is just one of them. It wouldn't take many cycles of multiplication
through the fractional-reserve system before interest rates would be through
the roof, if Grignon et al. were right.

You're talking about heterodox theories that require book-length arguments.
We've been using fractional reserves for over 200 years, which, again, if
Grignon were right, would have bankrupted the economy and frozen credit into
an immovable mass at least a century ago.

So the evidence isn't there. If you believe it, so be it.

--
Ed Huntress

On 7/3/2011 12:46 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On 7/2/2011 3:23 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On 7/2/2011 12:22 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

...

We don't even have a money system, we have a system based on debt. You
need to learn the difference between the two.

I'm not sure how you decide it's a "system based on debt." In regards to
our
national accounts, since 1980, we've accumulated about a year's worth of
GDP
in debt. So it's mostly not debt.

Do you have a better explanation for what you mean?


Here is a spoon feeding, it seems there is bunch of you guys who were
sleeping or lack the where-with-all to get a grip on it:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...rom082307.html

Eh, I should have remembered: the Grignon pitch. This Nystrom guy appears to
be a small fry who's parroting Grignon's economic theories, which are
re-writes of Murray Rothbard, Lew Rockwell, snd some others in the Austrian
School clan.

The short take is that it doesn't matter that the debt is greater than the
amount of money in circulation. The proof is that debt does not expand
exponentially with the creation of new money, as Grignon says it must. The
reasons are that there are many monetary actions that central banks use to
control money supply; the money multiplier inherent in fractional-reserve
banking is just one of them. It wouldn't take many cycles of multiplication
through the fractional-reserve system before interest rates would be through
the roof, if Grignon et al. were right.

You're talking about heterodox theories that require book-length arguments.
We've been using fractional reserves for over 200 years, which, again, if
Grignon were right, would have bankrupted the economy and frozen credit into
an immovable mass at least a century ago.

So the evidence isn't there. If you believe it, so be it.


It has enslaved people to debt for the last 40 years here, at least. As
the public servants, wall street, banksters, federal reserve, etc. have
become more corrupt and unethical, they have abused the ability of the
flawed debt system to extract ever increasing "productivity" (read
slavery here) out of those living under the system.

You only need your eyes and a full appraisal/analysis of where we are
now to realize that, no obfuscation necessary!

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:



It has enslaved people to debt for the last 40 years here, at least. As
the public servants, wall street, banksters, federal reserve, etc. have
become more corrupt and unethical, they have abused the ability of the
flawed debt system to extract ever increasing "productivity" (read
slavery here) out of those living under the system.

You fail to understand the meaning of "slavery"
Slavery is forced servitude.
People are not forced to go into debt

The huge debt binge in the US (and Europe)
in the last couple of decades
was because people believed that borrowing
was the road to riches
borrowing because you believe that the assets will
grow in value faster than the interest cost
If the theory is valid the more you borrow the more you make

Today after the fall of value in housing, pension and stock
most of the public no longer believes that theory

the only ones still operating under that theory today are
the ones borrowing to buy gold and other commodities
that are perceived to be rapidly increasing in price

When those bubbles pop there will be darn few left willing
to borrow as a means of winning the lottery

-jim





You only need your eyes and a full appraisal/analysis of where we are
now to realize that, no obfuscation necessary!

Regards,
JS

On 7/3/2011 10:14 AM, jim wrote:


John Smith wrote:



It has enslaved people to debt for the last 40 years here, at least. As
the public servants, wall street, banksters, federal reserve, etc. have
become more corrupt and unethical, they have abused the ability of the
flawed debt system to extract ever increasing "productivity" (read
slavery here) out of those living under the system.

You fail to understand the meaning of "slavery"
Slavery is forced servitude.
People are not forced to go into debt
...

Are you an ignorant arse?

Right now, you are borrowing against your grandchildrens' childrens'
future! Besides the amount of debt they are already born into ...

If you don't understand that, come back when you do.

If you don't think you can be enslaved by debt, you are a moron twice over.

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:

On 7/3/2011 10:14 AM, jim wrote:


John Smith wrote:



It has enslaved people to debt for the last 40 years here, at least. As
the public servants, wall street, banksters, federal reserve, etc. have
become more corrupt and unethical, they have abused the ability of the
flawed debt system to extract ever increasing "productivity" (read
slavery here) out of those living under the system.

You fail to understand the meaning of "slavery"
Slavery is forced servitude.
People are not forced to go into debt
...

Are you an ignorant arse?

Right now, you are borrowing against your grandchildrens' childrens'
future! Besides the amount of debt they are already born into ...

Really? How does that work?

Did anybody pay back the debt from WW2?
I can't see how since the debt has been
continually growing ever since


From your viewpoint did
my Grandparents borrow against my future?


I mean really how are my Grandchildren
any different than my grandparents?

I don't get how my grandparents enslaved me?
So enlighten this ignorant arse as to how
my Grandparents did me so wrong.
Did they put me in slavery?


I do see that if the people of the US all
suddenly go crazy and decide to pay off
the Federal debt as fast as possible
it will be disastrous
we will be quickly impoverished
without currency or goods

Doing that would no doubt
leave us with no money and
scrounging for bugs in the dirt

So is that what you are worried about?
Are you worried that we will all lose our minds?

Maybe so, but I don't see that gold has ever helped anybody
keep their sanity

All the evidence I see suggests the opposite

jim wrote in
:

John Smith wrote:

On 7/3/2011 10:14 AM, jim wrote:


John Smith wrote:



It has enslaved people to debt for the last 40 years here, at least.
As the public servants, wall street, banksters, federal reserve,
etc. have become more corrupt and unethical, they have abused the
ability of the flawed debt system to extract ever increasing
"productivity" (read slavery here) out of those living under the
system.

You fail to understand the meaning of "slavery"
Slavery is forced servitude.
People are not forced to go into debt
...

Are you an ignorant arse?

Right now, you are borrowing against your grandchildrens' childrens'
future! Besides the amount of debt they are already born into ...

Really? How does that work?

Did anybody pay back the debt from WW2?
I can't see how since the debt has been
continually growing ever since


From your viewpoint did
my Grandparents borrow against my future?


I mean really how are my Grandchildren
any different than my grandparents?

I don't get how my grandparents enslaved me?
So enlighten this ignorant arse as to how
my Grandparents did me so wrong.
Did they put me in slavery?


I do see that if the people of the US all
suddenly go crazy and decide to pay off
the Federal debt as fast as possible
it will be disastrous
we will be quickly impoverished
without currency or goods

Doing that would no doubt
leave us with no money and
scrounging for bugs in the dirt

So is that what you are worried about?
Are you worried that we will all lose our minds?

Maybe so, but I don't see that gold has ever helped anybody
keep their sanity

All the evidence I see suggests the opposite

Another sterling example of why not every person should have the vote.

--
Herman Cain for President! http://hermancain.com/
If you don't support him you are a Racist!!
He beat Cancer. He'll beat Obama (who is just like cancer)

Remember Desert One, Carter 0? Ain't it sad to wish that Obama had as much
ambition but being glad he doesn't knowing he doesn't have THAT much
competence?

On 7/3/2011 3:55 PM, jim wrote:
John Smith wrote:

On 7/3/2011 10:14 AM, jim wrote:


John Smith wrote:



It has enslaved people to debt for the last 40 years here, at least. As
the public servants, wall street, banksters, federal reserve, etc. have
become more corrupt and unethical, they have abused the ability of the
flawed debt system to extract ever increasing "productivity" (read
slavery here) out of those living under the system.

You fail to understand the meaning of "slavery"
Slavery is forced servitude.
People are not forced to go into debt
...

Are you an ignorant arse?

Right now, you are borrowing against your grandchildrens' childrens'
future! Besides the amount of debt they are already born into ...

Really? How does that work?

Did anybody pay back the debt from WW2?
I can't see how since the debt has been
continually growing ever since


From your viewpoint did
my Grandparents borrow against my future?


I mean really how are my Grandchildren
any different than my grandparents?

I don't get how my grandparents enslaved me?
So enlighten this ignorant arse as to how
my Grandparents did me so wrong.
Did they put me in slavery?


I do see that if the people of the US all
suddenly go crazy and decide to pay off
the Federal debt as fast as possible
it will be disastrous
we will be quickly impoverished
without currency or goods

Doing that would no doubt
leave us with no money and
scrounging for bugs in the dirt

So is that what you are worried about?
Are you worried that we will all lose our minds?

Maybe so, but I don't see that gold has ever helped anybody
keep their sanity

All the evidence I see suggests the opposite

Well, damn idiots can claim anything they want, sure as hell obvious you
don't have an accountant or financial advisor! ... makes no difference
to me.

Regards,
JS

On Jul 3, 4:43*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 7/3/2011 10:14 AM, jim wrote:







John Smith wrote:

It has enslaved people to debt for the last 40 years here, at least. *As
the public servants, wall street, banksters, federal reserve, etc. have
become more corrupt and unethical, they have abused the ability of the
flawed debt system to extract ever increasing "productivity" (read
slavery here) out of those living under the system.

You fail to understand the meaning of "slavery"
Slavery is forced servitude.
People are not forced to go into debt
...

Are you an ignorant arse?

Right now, you are borrowing against your grandchildrens' childrens'
future! *Besides the amount of debt they are already born into ...

If you don't understand that, come back when you do.

If you don't think you can be enslaved by debt, you are a moron twice over.

On 7/3/2011 8:43 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jul 3, 4:43 pm, John wrote:
On 7/3/2011 10:14 AM, jim wrote:







John Smith wrote:

It has enslaved people to debt for the last 40 years here, at least. As
the public servants, wall street, banksters, federal reserve, etc. have
become more corrupt and unethical, they have abused the ability of the
flawed debt system to extract ever increasing "productivity" (read
slavery here) out of those living under the system.

You fail to understand the meaning of "slavery"
Slavery is forced servitude.
People are not forced to go into debt
...

Are you an ignorant arse?

Right now, you are borrowing against your grandchildrens' childrens'
future! Besides the amount of debt they are already born into ...

If you don't understand that, come back when you do.

If you don't think you can be enslaved by debt, you are a moron twice over.

Regards,
JS- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think you are the ignorant arse.

Where were you when Bush blew the first TRILLION and plunging the
Country into the worst recession we have ever seen?

TMT

Where were you when reagan tore off all the controls and turned the bull
loose for the banksters and wall street to rape us?

Where where you when clinton signed in NAFTA & GATT?

What, are you a stupid retard that roots for the republicrats or the
democans ... they both take orders from the same bosses ...

Regards,
JS