On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?


Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

On Oct 13, 7:00*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
*wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? * Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? * *If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! *Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg
-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg

On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg
-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

.... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg

-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf
or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized
uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or
built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.

--
Lloyd

On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg


-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf
or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses
for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to
order basis by companies that do show their sales figures.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.


I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores
are recorded ...

Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San
Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc.

I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I
have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people
from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in
senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up
building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ...

Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a
handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never
see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college
here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ...

Regards,
JS

On 10/14/11 3:53 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as
far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer
...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg



-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf
or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses
for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to
order basis by companies that do show their sales figures.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.


I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores
are recorded ...

And don't amount for much these days. I know, I worked for a fairly
small dealership for many years and watched sales and profits keep
dwindling.

Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San
Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc.

Many, many times. Obviously you think you are nearly the only person
that is expert at computer sales and marketing.

I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I
have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people
from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in
senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up
building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ...

A claim that can't be proven such as this one of yours, is easy to make.
I've seen nothing from you that indicates you have done this at all.

Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a
handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never
see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college
here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ...

Regards,
JS

If you haven't seen them, that is even a better indication of your lack
of real knowledge of the computer market as a whole. Just some hobby
crap you do.

--
Lloyd

John Smith wrote in
:

On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the
price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds
like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by
someone making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would
all make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have
PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole
family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some
around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys,
I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't
know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried
them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match
three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A.../MAC%20Accesso
ries/M108.jpg


-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...765z7tpy_152.j
pg .

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not
represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like
most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously
a lot smaller than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom
built PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the
shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. Other
specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off
the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their
sales figures.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.


I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores
are recorded ...

Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San
Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc.

I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ...
I have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ...
people from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts,
volunteer in senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would
have ended up building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out
of it ...

Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just
a handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just
never see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local
college here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ...

MACs used to be popular in school settings and universities. It was
originally felt that if folks got used to MACs that they would order them
and use them at the office in lieu of PCs. Hasn't worked out that
though.


--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)

Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over
the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue
over a bar bill on the Titanic.....

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg

-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or
from companies that specialize in that market.

True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up from
components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several people that
build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain they have never
reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll takers. I suppose if
one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU sales one might be able to
get a better calculation, but I don't see any indication that is a
consideration since they only seem to count system sales and then only from
the major players.


Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off
the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales
figures.

Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local
computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they represent a
significant portion of total PC sales.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market
that has little significance in the overall market.

Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around 50%
are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many systems
are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that someone has
put together.

So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute a
"miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and evidence
would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the total market.

On 10/14/11 3:58 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as
far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer
...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg


-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the
shelf or from companies that specialize in that market.

True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up
from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several
people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain
they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll
takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU
sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any
indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system
sales and then only from the major players.

These days I suspect they aren't counted. But that is because these
days the small builders have almost disappeared, leaving only the 1-2
man shops with low profits to pick up the dregs of a once thriving market.



Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either
off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their
sales figures.

Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local
computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they
represent a significant portion of total PC sales.

They just aren't these days. There was a day when the small shops were
a significant part of the market, those days are long over.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.

Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around
50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many
systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that
someone has put together.

You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there.

So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute
a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and
evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the
total market.

My experience was with a small dealership that both built and sold
wintel boxes, and also sold brand names. We sold a lot and our figures
were reported in via some of the wholesalers we dealt with. Our custom
built business declined over many years because the profits are so thin
on these things that building your own isn't profitable if you have to
pay for your labor. It was increasingly obvious that the only way to
make as much profit as we wanted to make, we would have to quit making
custom boxes. And we did just that. Just as almost all of the small
shops did. The only ones left making custom stuff for the most part
these days are the 1-2 person shops.

Insignificant in today's market.



--
Lloyd