On 10/14/11 3:58 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as
far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer
...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg


-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the
shelf or from companies that specialize in that market.

True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up
from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several
people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain
they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll
takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU
sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any
indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system
sales and then only from the major players.

These days I suspect they aren't counted. But that is because these
days the small builders have almost disappeared, leaving only the 1-2
man shops with low profits to pick up the dregs of a once thriving market.



Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either
off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their
sales figures.

Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local
computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they
represent a significant portion of total PC sales.

They just aren't these days. There was a day when the small shops were
a significant part of the market, those days are long over.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.

Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around
50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many
systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that
someone has put together.

You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there.

So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute
a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and
evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the
total market.

My experience was with a small dealership that both built and sold
wintel boxes, and also sold brand names. We sold a lot and our figures
were reported in via some of the wholesalers we dealt with. Our custom
built business declined over many years because the profits are so thin
on these things that building your own isn't profitable if you have to
pay for your labor. It was increasingly obvious that the only way to
make as much profit as we wanted to make, we would have to quit making
custom boxes. And we did just that. Just as almost all of the small
shops did. The only ones left making custom stuff for the most part
these days are the 1-2 person shops.

Insignificant in today's market.



--
Lloyd

On 10/14/2011 2:12 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:58 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as
far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some
used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer
...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg



-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not
represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom
built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the
shelf or from companies that specialize in that market.

True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up
from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several
people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain
they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll
takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU
sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any
indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system
sales and then only from the major players.

These days I suspect they aren't counted. But that is because these days
the small builders have almost disappeared, leaving only the 1-2 man
shops with low profits to pick up the dregs of a once thriving market.



Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either
off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their
sales figures.

Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local
computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they
represent a significant portion of total PC sales.

They just aren't these days. There was a day when the small shops were a
significant part of the market, those days are long over.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.

Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around
50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many
systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that
someone has put together.

You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there.

So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute
a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and
evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the
total market.

My experience was with a small dealership that both built and sold
wintel boxes, and also sold brand names. We sold a lot and our figures
were reported in via some of the wholesalers we dealt with. Our custom
built business declined over many years because the profits are so thin
on these things that building your own isn't profitable if you have to
pay for your labor. It was increasingly obvious that the only way to
make as much profit as we wanted to make, we would have to quit making
custom boxes. And we did just that. Just as almost all of the small
shops did. The only ones left making custom stuff for the most part
these days are the 1-2 person shops.

Insignificant in today's market.




Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is
partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ...
and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together
.... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote:
Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is
partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ...
and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together
... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand
computers in their offices.

But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with
wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built,
tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple...

Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of
the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is
going to follow. No profits will do that.


--
Lloyd

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote:
Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is
partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ...
and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together
... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand
computers in their offices.

But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with wintel
or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built, tiny profits
seem to be the norm. Except at Apple...

Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of the
wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is going to
follow. No profits will do that.

No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide computers
for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money doing so.

The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name brand just
isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own inferior hardware.

On 10/14/11 6:35 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote:
Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any
relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is
partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ...
and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together
... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand
computers in their offices.

But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with
wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built,
tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple...

Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of
the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is
going to follow. No profits will do that.

No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide
computers for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money doing so.

No, in fact, IBM does not make any personal computers. They do provide
Lenovo branded computers.

http://www.ibm.com/ibm/us/en/pcannouncement/


The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name brand
just isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own inferior
hardware.

You don't need to tell me how competitive it is, I was in the biz for
over 20 years.

Your statement would ring truer if Apple wasn't able to sell upscale
computers at premium prices. Hell, they sell everything at premium
prices and make a hell of a big profit margin on all of it.



--
Lloyd

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 6:35 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote:
Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any
relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is
partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ...
and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them
together
... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand
computers in their offices.

But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with
wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built,
tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple...

Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of
the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is
going to follow. No profits will do that.

No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide
computers for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money doing
so.

No, in fact, IBM does not make any personal computers. They do provide
Lenovo branded computers.

http://www.ibm.com/ibm/us/en/pcannouncement/

Hate tell you this....but nothing you said contradicts me in the least.

The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name brand
just isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own inferior
hardware.

You don't need to tell me how competitive it is, I was in the biz for over
20 years.

Your statement would ring truer if Apple wasn't able to sell upscale
computers at premium prices. Hell, they sell everything at premium prices
and make a hell of a big profit margin on all of it.

Yep, it's a small nitch market among a following of people sold on the
brand.

That doesn't happen in the PC market because the O/S isn't brand specific.

http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?...covery+Channel

A few minutes ago I saw a commercial about that on the Discovery
channel.
Premiers on Sunday.
cuhulin

"Scout" wrote in
:



"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 6:35 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote:
Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the
MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any
relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting
him (is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk
was a PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept.
puts them together
... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand
computers in their offices.

But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with
wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built,
tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple...

Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out
of the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP
is going to follow. No profits will do that.

No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide
computers for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money
doing so.

No, in fact, IBM does not make any personal computers. They do
provide Lenovo branded computers.

http://www.ibm.com/ibm/us/en/pcannouncement/

Hate tell you this....but nothing you said contradicts me in the
least.

The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name
brand just isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own
inferior hardware.

You don't need to tell me how competitive it is, I was in the biz for
over 20 years.

Your statement would ring truer if Apple wasn't able to sell upscale
computers at premium prices. Hell, they sell everything at premium
prices and make a hell of a big profit margin on all of it.

Yep, it's a small nitch market among a following of people sold on the
brand.

That doesn't happen in the PC market because the O/S isn't brand
specific.

At one point it was....although it was a joint development effort with
MS.

--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)

Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over
the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue
over a bar bill on the Titanic.....

Lloyd E Parsons wrote in
:

On 10/14/11 6:35 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote:
Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any
relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him
(is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a
PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts
them together ... unless the workers have to bring their own!
ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand
computers in their offices.

But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with
wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built,
tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple...

Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of
the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is
going to follow. No profits will do that.

No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide
computers for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money
doing so.

No, in fact, IBM does not make any personal computers. They do
provide Lenovo branded computers.

http://www.ibm.com/ibm/us/en/pcannouncement/

Which came about when IBM added to its laptop development venture in the
early 90s with Legend out of China who made some of its components. In
the mid-90s development moved from Boca Raton, FL to Raleigh, NC. In the
early 2000s, the Lenovo name was introduced although it had been in
internal use for some time. In 2004 IBM announced that Lenovo would take
over IBM's PC Division.

Yes, IBM still produces computers, but not laptops or PCs. They
concentrate on the "BIG" market.

The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name
brand just isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own
inferior hardware.

You don't need to tell me how competitive it is, I was in the biz for
over 20 years.

Your statement would ring truer if Apple wasn't able to sell upscale
computers at premium prices. Hell, they sell everything at premium
prices and make a hell of a big profit margin on all of it.

Yes, they do........of which part of that goes to why they are a much
smaller (although wildly devoted) segment of the industry.


--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)

Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over
the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue
over a bar bill on the Titanic.....

"Scout" wrote in
:



"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote:
Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!!

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any
relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him
(is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a
PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts
them together ... unless the workers have to bring their own!
ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand
computers in their offices.

But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with
wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built,
tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple...

Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of
the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is
going to follow. No profits will do that.

No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide
computers for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money doing
so.

The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name
brand just isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own
inferior hardware.


What were the IBM laptops are now manufactured and marketed by and under
the name Lenovo.

--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)

Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over
the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue
over a bar bill on the Titanic.....