"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems
customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made
my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's
just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your
business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants
really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized
as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper
on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running
away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and
put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop
has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a
computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective
buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the hardware
is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in the warehouse
for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've
already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't
have this problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus
they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players
do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales,
discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their ability to
change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat.

Nope, small suppliers can generally match much of what a name brand puts out
simply because they aren't having to pay last year's price for hardware they
are going to sell tomorrow. Just watch the price on any hardware. From what
it was a year ago, to today. It generally will drop significantly. So you
can either beat their price or match their price with superior hardware.
However, there is a tradeoff, customer support particularly in driver
updates, software conflicts/errors, and so on is left much more to the
consumer that it might be with the name guys. However, a lot of hardware
drivers now provide automatic updates from the maker as they become
available.

On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems
customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made
my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have
the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's
just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your
business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants
really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized
as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd
be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy
the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made,
UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a
computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective
buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the
hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in
the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year
ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local
supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker
supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly
the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take
advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand
guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration
at the drop of a hat.

Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your
little story here.

The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current
stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And
then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US
builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than
minimum wage here.

In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor
at all.

Nope, small suppliers can generally match much of what a name brand puts
out simply because they aren't having to pay last year's price for
hardware they are going to sell tomorrow. Just watch the price on any
hardware. From what it was a year ago, to today. It generally will drop
significantly. So you can either beat their price or match their price
with superior hardware. However, there is a tradeoff, customer support
particularly in driver updates, software conflicts/errors, and so on is
left much more to the consumer that it might be with the name guys.
However, a lot of hardware drivers now provide automatic updates from
the maker as they become available.


The advantage the small guys have is in custom configurations for
specialty markets. Because of the very low volumes, it is difficult, if
not impossible for the big guys to address that market except for some
generic stuff. And usually for the specialty market, if you buy from
the big boys, you have to overbuy to meet or exceed the spec you're needing.



--
Lloyd

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems
customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made
my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have
the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's
just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your
business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants
really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized
as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd
be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy
the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made,
UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a
computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective
buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the
hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in
the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year
ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local
supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker
supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly
the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take
advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand
guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration
at the drop of a hat.

Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little
story here.

The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current
stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then
have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder
can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage
here.

In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor
at all.

Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide
equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and
tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter.
Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly
enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it.

"Scout" wrote in
:



"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such
systems customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that
made my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't
have the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front,
it's just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of
your business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and
wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as
personalized as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names,
I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper
to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy
ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't
factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a
computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by
selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that
arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer
they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly
as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher
price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem
because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't
lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do.
Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales,
discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their
ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat.

Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your
little story here.

The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current
stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And
then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US
builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than
minimum wage here.

In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his
labor at all.

Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still
provide equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the
same price and tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than
some cookie cutter. Plus I know several people who make a living out
of doing this and oddly enough they seem to be making a pretty decent
living at it.

That depends on the hardware. For example, I'm not in the PC business
anymore but on modems, routers, etc.. a person can go to a Best Buy and
get one for less than the computer shop owner pays for it. Where the
shop owner shines is in custom building. When certain configurations are
built to fill a particular niche for a particular customer. At least
that is how it was....way back when....

--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)

Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over
the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue
over a bar bill on the Titanic.....

On 10/17/11 11:59 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
. net wrote in
:



"Lloyd E wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such
systems customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that
made my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't
have the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front,
it's just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of
your business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and
wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as
personalized as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names,
I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper
to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy
ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't
factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a
computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by
selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that
arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer
they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly
as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher
price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem
because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't
lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do.
Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales,
discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their
ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat.

Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your
little story here.

The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current
stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And
then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US
builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than
minimum wage here.

In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his
labor at all.

Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still
provide equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the
same price and tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than
some cookie cutter. Plus I know several people who make a living out
of doing this and oddly enough they seem to be making a pretty decent
living at it.

That depends on the hardware. For example, I'm not in the PC business
anymore but on modems, routers, etc.. a person can go to a Best Buy and
get one for less than the computer shop owner pays for it. Where the
shop owner shines is in custom building. When certain configurations are
built to fill a particular niche for a particular customer. At least
that is how it was....way back when....

Back when, it was that way. Now most of the little mom and pop shops
depend on their service business to make a living as sales at the
current profit margins, aren't where it is at.

And getting a good salesman is tough when they can't make good commissions.


--
Lloyd

Lloyd E Parsons wrote in
:

On 10/17/11 11:59 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
. net wrote in
:



"Lloyd E wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such
systems customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores
that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't
have the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front,
it's just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of
your business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and
wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as
personalized as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names,
I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much
cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it
is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or
doesn't factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble
a computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by
selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that
arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer
they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth
nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the
higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this
problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus
they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the
big players do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of
price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand guys
are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration
at the drop of a hat.

Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your
little story here.

The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy
current stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of
parts. And then have them built in factories with such cheap labor
that any US builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far,
far less than minimum wage here.

In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his
labor at all.

Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still
provide equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the
same price and tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than
some cookie cutter. Plus I know several people who make a living out
of doing this and oddly enough they seem to be making a pretty
decent living at it.

That depends on the hardware. For example, I'm not in the PC
business anymore but on modems, routers, etc.. a person can go to a
Best Buy and get one for less than the computer shop owner pays for
it. Where the shop owner shines is in custom building. When certain
configurations are built to fill a particular niche for a particular
customer. At least that is how it was....way back when....

Back when, it was that way. Now most of the little mom and pop shops
depend on their service business to make a living as sales at the
current profit margins, aren't where it is at.

Yes, it was the same way back when, but that wasn't what was being
discussed was it.

And getting a good salesman is tough when they can't make good
commissions.

Most of the ones that I knew didn't have a separate marketing entity. It
was owner-do-all with maybe a couple of shop people or someone to go on
site.


--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)

Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over
the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue
over a bar bill on the Titanic.....

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems
customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made
my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have
the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's
just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your
business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants
really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized
as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd
be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy
the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made,
UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in.

No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a
computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective
buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the
hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in
the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year
ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local
supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker
supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly
the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take
advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand
guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration
at the drop of a hat.

Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little
story here.

The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current
stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then
have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder
can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage
here.

In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor
at all.

Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide
equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and
tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter.
Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly
enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:31:03 -0500, Lloyd E Parsons
wrote:

The advantage the small guys have is in custom configurations for
specialty markets. Because of the very low volumes, it is difficult, if
not impossible for the big guys to address that market except for some
generic stuff. And usually for the specialty market, if you buy from
the big boys, you have to overbuy to meet or exceed the spec you're needing.

Don't some of the big guys have Just In Time production? If I go to
a web site and enter all of my specifics, does it find my exact
computer in a warehouse - or does it assemble my computer to match my
criteria?

Of course, both types of computer makers need to warehouse parts. It's
expensive to stock a video card it might not sell. But a large
plant can afford to have a rarely sold card more than a small shop.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On 10/17/11 8:54 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:31:03 -0500, Lloyd E Parsons
wrote:

The advantage the small guys have is in custom configurations for
specialty markets. Because of the very low volumes, it is difficult, if
not impossible for the big guys to address that market except for some
generic stuff. And usually for the specialty market, if you buy from
the big boys, you have to overbuy to meet or exceed the spec you're needing.

Don't some of the big guys have Just In Time production? If I go to
a web site and enter all of my specifics, does it find my exact
computer in a warehouse - or does it assemble my computer to match my
criteria?

Of course, both types of computer makers need to warehouse parts. It's
expensive to stock a video card it might not sell. But a large
plant can afford to have a rarely sold card more than a small shop.

Dell was literally built on the idea of just-in-time throughout its
supply chain and production line. Basically when you call Dell they are
doing a build sheet for your computer.

Other mfgs watched in awe as Dell honed that to a fine point. It was
Dell's biggest claim to fame! Of course, now the profits are really
poor in the wintel side of the computer builders and it makes that even
more important.

I worked for a couple of small computer shops and we stocked very
little. We targetted small business and schools and did very little
business with the consumer market. We found that by carrying just a
very few parts in stock, and ordering in for overnight delivery to us to
be a better way to do things.

Out new sales tended to be bulk sales, so we ordered parts for those
builds as needed. Later we moved from building our own to reselling
Compaq and other product lines. It was just a better way to go.


--
Lloyd