On 10/19/2011 12:14 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/18/2011 6:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/18/2011 1:41 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/18/2011 1:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/18/2011 12:30 PM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:58 am, John wrote:
On 10/18/2011 5:18 AM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

On 10/17/11 20:04 , Howard Brazee wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:41:08 -0700 (PDT), RHF
wrote:

Friends Don't Let Friends Buy Apples/Macs.

Friends let friends be their own people, making their own choices.

The world needs more friends.

Hey....making sense, here. Cut it out.

Real friends sit they PC down besides the Mac users equipment and
give
them a demonstration ... one picture is worth 10,000 words ...

Regards,
JS

Apple-holics 'Know' with a certainty that MACs are
very "pc"*, and lowly PCs {The Machine} are not.
-apple/macs-are-creative-tools-for-the-ennobled-
-while-ms/pcs-are-simply-machines-for-the-masses-

* 'pc' politically correct and elitist**

** 'i' am an Educator {in Education} and use
an Apple/MAC therefore 'i' and 'it' are better
than you and your lowly PC
-or-
** 'i' am Creative {in the Arts etc...} and use
an Apple/MAC therefore 'i' and 'it' are better
than you and your lowly PC
.
Apple/MAC : A Statement of "Who I Am"
-versus-
MS/PC : A Statement of "What I Do"
-result-
Fashion Over Form-&-Function
.
.

What I seen was bill gates become very obstinate and think that that
there was no need for video as powerful as the computers ... MAC video
graphic artists where forced into being ... now that windows went
ahead
and provided the supporting software/driver support, there is no finer
video than you will find on PC's ... and the leading reason all no.
one
games usually only run on the PC, and windows ... to transcode them
for
another architecture/video support cuts too many capabilities from the
game.

Windows didn't "go ahead" and do that, John. The companies that build
the graphics cards provide the drivers.

As for your "too many capabilities from the game" claim...

...let's see a concrete example.


Actually, it is windows that supports the hardware, if they don't,

No, you are completely incorrect. Windows supports the driver
architecture that the hardware manufacturer must write their driver's to
comply with.

anyone can write as many drivers as they wish ... the OS would simply

And anyone can. They may not want to, but they can.

not be able to utilize it ... yet another post which blatantly outlines
your refusal to cure your ignorance ... but your complete willingness to
comment on things you know little, or even nothing, about.

The irony in this statement is off the charts...


Gates saw a world where a simple video chip on a motherboard would be
sufficient ... his vision changed.

Again, Microsoft doesn't write the drivers: the hardware manufacturers
do.


Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make the video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its' hardware ...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes the same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must provide what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it doesn't even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey, glad to be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking about, you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since you said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really white ...

Regards,
JS


Regards,
JS

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make the video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its' hardware ...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes the same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must provide what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it doesn't even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey, glad to be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking about, you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since you said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really white ...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

....but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make the
video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its' hardware
...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes the same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must provide
what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it doesn't
even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey, glad to
be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking about,
you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows
published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than
certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since you said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really white
...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

...but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

Really?

I've got a lot of drivers on my computer, and when I look at the data I find
most are provided by Microsoft.

In fact, the only drivers which aren't from Microsoft are those I installed
or downloaded from a manufacturer.

Disk Drivers - Drivers by Microsoft
Disk Interface - Drivers by Microsoft
Keyboard - Driver by Microsoft
Mouse - Driver by Microsoft
Monitor - Driver by Microsoft
Ports - Driver by Microsoft
CPU - Driver by Microsoft
System Devices - Drivers by Microsoft
USB - Driver by Microsoft

Video Card - Driver by Nividia
Ethernet - Driver by Intel
Audio - Drivers by RealTec

If the hardware manufacturers/venders write them, then why do they state
they were provided by Microsoft?

Seems to me if someone else provided the drivers, then they could sue
Microsoft for false representation.

So why haven't they?

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make the
video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its' hardware
...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes the same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must provide
what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it doesn't
even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey, glad to
be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking about,
you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows
published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than
certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since you said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really white
...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

...but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

Really?

I've got a lot of drivers on my computer, and when I look at the data I find
most are provided by Microsoft.

In fact, the only drivers which aren't from Microsoft are those I installed
or downloaded from a manufacturer.

Disk Drivers - Drivers by Microsoft
Disk Interface - Drivers by Microsoft
Keyboard - Driver by Microsoft
Mouse - Driver by Microsoft
Monitor - Driver by Microsoft
Ports - Driver by Microsoft
CPU - Driver by Microsoft
System Devices - Drivers by Microsoft
USB - Driver by Microsoft

Video Card - Driver by Nividia
Ethernet - Driver by Intel
Audio - Drivers by RealTec

If the hardware manufacturers/venders write them, then why do they state
they were provided by Microsoft?

Seems to me if someone else provided the drivers, then they could sue
Microsoft for false representation.

So why haven't they?



Scout: my discussions with John arose specifically about video cards.

"Windows didn't "go ahead" and do that, John. The companies that build
the graphics cards provide the drivers."

Quickly: Tell us again who wrote the video card drivers on your system...

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make the
video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but
the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its'
hardware
...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes the
same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must provide
what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it
doesn't
even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey, glad
to
be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking
about,
you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows
published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than
certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with
the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since you
said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really
white
...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

...but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

Really?

I've got a lot of drivers on my computer, and when I look at the data I
find
most are provided by Microsoft.

In fact, the only drivers which aren't from Microsoft are those I
installed
or downloaded from a manufacturer.

Disk Drivers - Drivers by Microsoft
Disk Interface - Drivers by Microsoft
Keyboard - Driver by Microsoft
Mouse - Driver by Microsoft
Monitor - Driver by Microsoft
Ports - Driver by Microsoft
CPU - Driver by Microsoft
System Devices - Drivers by Microsoft
USB - Driver by Microsoft

Video Card - Driver by Nividia
Ethernet - Driver by Intel
Audio - Drivers by RealTec

If the hardware manufacturers/venders write them, then why do they state
they were provided by Microsoft?

Seems to me if someone else provided the drivers, then they could sue
Microsoft for false representation.

So why haven't they?



Scout: my discussions with John arose specifically about video cards.

So? My default drivers is provided by gasp Microsoft.

Indeed if Microsoft didn't provide a driver for video cards it would be
extremely hard to install the O/S on the computer.


"Windows didn't "go ahead" and do that, John. The companies that build
the graphics cards provide the drivers."

Yep, but Microsoft also produces drivers for graphics cards.

Quickly: Tell us again who wrote the video card drivers on your system...

Initially it was Microsoft.

Later it was Nividia

However, without that graphics card driver from Microsoft I would never have
been able to instead the driver from Nividia.

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make the
video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but
the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its'
hardware
...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes the
same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must provide
what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it
doesn't
even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey, glad
to
be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking
about,
you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows
published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than
certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with
the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since you
said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really
white
...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

...but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

Really?

I've got a lot of drivers on my computer, and when I look at the data I
find
most are provided by Microsoft.

In fact, the only drivers which aren't from Microsoft are those I
installed
or downloaded from a manufacturer.

Disk Drivers - Drivers by Microsoft
Disk Interface - Drivers by Microsoft
Keyboard - Driver by Microsoft
Mouse - Driver by Microsoft
Monitor - Driver by Microsoft
Ports - Driver by Microsoft
CPU - Driver by Microsoft
System Devices - Drivers by Microsoft
USB - Driver by Microsoft

Video Card - Driver by Nividia
Ethernet - Driver by Intel
Audio - Drivers by RealTec

If the hardware manufacturers/venders write them, then why do they state
they were provided by Microsoft?

Seems to me if someone else provided the drivers, then they could sue
Microsoft for false representation.

So why haven't they?



Scout: my discussions with John arose specifically about video cards.

So? My default drivers is provided by gasp Microsoft.

For devices with extremely well-defined interfaces. You can have disk
drivers by Microsoft because the drive manufactures work to the ATA
spec, etc.


Indeed if Microsoft didn't provide a driver for video cards it would be
extremely hard to install the O/S on the computer.

And because for basic drivers, the manufacturers make sure the cards
follow a basic spec.



"Windows didn't "go ahead" and do that, John. The companies that build
the graphics cards provide the drivers."

Yep, but Microsoft also produces drivers for graphics cards.

Very basic ones, yes.


Quickly: Tell us again who wrote the video card drivers on your system...

Initially it was Microsoft.

Later it was Nividia

However, without that graphics card driver from Microsoft I would never have
been able to instead the driver from Nividia.

Nope. Not true. It would have been a good bit more difficult... ...but
not impossible.

But the point of this was that John was touting *Microsoft* for writing
the drivers that make the high-performance video cards work in their
high-performance mode...


....and it just isn't so.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make
the
video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have
to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but
the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its'
hardware
...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes
the
same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must
provide
what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it
doesn't
even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on
a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey,
glad
to
be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking
about,
you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows
published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than
certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with
the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since
you
said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware
when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the
hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers,
are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really
white
...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

...but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

Really?

I've got a lot of drivers on my computer, and when I look at the data
I
find
most are provided by Microsoft.

In fact, the only drivers which aren't from Microsoft are those I
installed
or downloaded from a manufacturer.

Disk Drivers - Drivers by Microsoft
Disk Interface - Drivers by Microsoft
Keyboard - Driver by Microsoft
Mouse - Driver by Microsoft
Monitor - Driver by Microsoft
Ports - Driver by Microsoft
CPU - Driver by Microsoft
System Devices - Drivers by Microsoft
USB - Driver by Microsoft

Video Card - Driver by Nividia
Ethernet - Driver by Intel
Audio - Drivers by RealTec

If the hardware manufacturers/venders write them, then why do they
state
they were provided by Microsoft?

Seems to me if someone else provided the drivers, then they could sue
Microsoft for false representation.

So why haven't they?



Scout: my discussions with John arose specifically about video cards.

So? My default drivers is provided by gasp Microsoft.

For devices with extremely well-defined interfaces. You can have disk
drivers by Microsoft because the drive manufactures work to the ATA
spec, etc.

Yep, just like graphics cards at least to a certain resolution.

Indeed if Microsoft didn't provide a driver for video cards it would be
extremely hard to install the O/S on the computer.

And because for basic drivers, the manufacturers make sure the cards
follow a basic spec.

Be that as it may, the default driver is still done by Microsoft.

"Windows didn't "go ahead" and do that, John. The companies that build
the graphics cards provide the drivers."

Yep, but Microsoft also produces drivers for graphics cards.

Very basic ones, yes.


Quickly: Tell us again who wrote the video card drivers on your
system...

Initially it was Microsoft.

Later it was Nividia

However, without that graphics card driver from Microsoft I would never
have
been able to instead the driver from Nividia.

Nope. Not true. It would have been a good bit more difficult... ...but
not impossible.

But the point of this was that John was touting *Microsoft* for writing
the drivers that make the high-performance video cards work in their
high-performance mode...


...and it just isn't so.

Well, actually, the BIOS and internal sockets in Windows has support for the
higher modes then your driver simply wouldn't work.

In short, you're not going to exceed the limits of what the BIOS and/or O/S
sets for the maximum limit.

Within the limits of the BIOS and O/S you can write drivers that will work,
but only within the limits of what is supported by them.

On 10/25/2011 5:17 PM, Scout wrote:


"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make
the
video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply
have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made,
but the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its'
hardware
...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes
the same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must
provide
what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it
doesn't
even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey,
glad to
be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking
about,
you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows
published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than
certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar
with the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since
you said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware
when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really
white
...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

...but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

Really?

I've got a lot of drivers on my computer, and when I look at the data
I find
most are provided by Microsoft.

In fact, the only drivers which aren't from Microsoft are those I
installed
or downloaded from a manufacturer.

Disk Drivers - Drivers by Microsoft
Disk Interface - Drivers by Microsoft
Keyboard - Driver by Microsoft
Mouse - Driver by Microsoft
Monitor - Driver by Microsoft
Ports - Driver by Microsoft
CPU - Driver by Microsoft
System Devices - Drivers by Microsoft
USB - Driver by Microsoft

Video Card - Driver by Nividia
Ethernet - Driver by Intel
Audio - Drivers by RealTec

If the hardware manufacturers/venders write them, then why do they state
they were provided by Microsoft?

Seems to me if someone else provided the drivers, then they could sue
Microsoft for false representation.

So why haven't they?



Scout: my discussions with John arose specifically about video cards.

So? My default drivers is provided by gasp Microsoft.

Indeed if Microsoft didn't provide a driver for video cards it would be
extremely hard to install the O/S on the computer.


"Windows didn't "go ahead" and do that, John. The companies that build
the graphics cards provide the drivers."

Yep, but Microsoft also produces drivers for graphics cards.

Quickly: Tell us again who wrote the video card drivers on your system...

Initially it was Microsoft.

Later it was Nividia

However, without that graphics card driver from Microsoft I would never
have been able to instead the driver from Nividia.



He is wrong, so now he attempts to narrow the driver down to just what
is created in the card vendors shops ... it is the only avenue of
argument left him ... his argument may well fool the fools ...

Regards,
JS

On 10/25/2011 5:08 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make the
video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its' hardware
...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes the same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must provide
what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it doesn't
even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey, glad to
be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking about,
you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows
published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than
certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since you said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really white
...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

...but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

Really?

I've got a lot of drivers on my computer, and when I look at the data I find
most are provided by Microsoft.

In fact, the only drivers which aren't from Microsoft are those I installed
or downloaded from a manufacturer.

Disk Drivers - Drivers by Microsoft
Disk Interface - Drivers by Microsoft
Keyboard - Driver by Microsoft
Mouse - Driver by Microsoft
Monitor - Driver by Microsoft
Ports - Driver by Microsoft
CPU - Driver by Microsoft
System Devices - Drivers by Microsoft
USB - Driver by Microsoft

Video Card - Driver by Nividia
Ethernet - Driver by Intel
Audio - Drivers by RealTec

If the hardware manufacturers/venders write them, then why do they state
they were provided by Microsoft?

Seems to me if someone else provided the drivers, then they could sue
Microsoft for false representation.

So why haven't they?



Scout: my discussions with John arose specifically about video cards.

"Windows didn't "go ahead" and do that, John. The companies that build
the graphics cards provide the drivers."

Quickly: Tell us again who wrote the video card drivers on your system...


Actually, you fudge again, whether by ignorance or design.

As I said, gates envisioned a motherboard with a chip on it, for video,
and would handle everything ... and, as I further stated, that did NOT
work out well ... windows had to rewrite and adapt the windows video
drivers to accompany much more powerful video ... and, of course, we are
now at the point where video cards, in themselves, are as powerful as
yesterdays computers ...

Windows write the specs, which defines the drivers, although they may be
assembled by software engineers working for others and off site ... not
any different than hardware, really ... in the aspects of the model of
patents, design, implementation, construction, manufacture, etc.

If someone wants to interface their hardware with windows, windows is
the piper and calls the tune ... "they" simply dance to it.

Regards,
JS

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/25/2011 5:08 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

Again, you prove yourself a fool, the high level drivers make the
video
calls to the devices ... the hardware manufactures simply have to
translate those into assembly ... the same calls are made, but the
firmware of the manufacturer translates those to fit its' hardware
...
ATI will be much different the NVIDIA ... but windows makes the same
calls from its high level driver(s) ... and, windows must provide
what
the game developers need, the instructions and calls, or it doesn't
even
get off the ground. Just because a video card slot exists on a
motherboard DOES NOT mean windows has to support it ...

It is the windows kernal which runs the games ... but hey, glad to
be
able to help you dispel your ignorance! :-)

I'm sorry, but when you really don't know what you're talking about,
you
should just shut up.

Create a video card, write drivers for it according to Windows
published
requirements and it will work...

...Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with it other than
certifying
the drivers after they've been written.


What a dumb asshole ... you'd better make yourself familiar with the
windows device driver tools and their specs, moron ...

I am familiar with the process as you obviously are not, since you said
that Microsoft writes the drivers for other companies' hardware when
they most certainly do not.


They most certainly do, or more accurately have ... now the hardware
simply needs to have those translated ... new hardware can be
constructed which can do a whole LOT of things that WHQL drivers, are
not aware of and can't use ... not until the windows drivers and
constructed, by microsoft, will those ever be used ...

WHQL is the specification, is the test, is the standard for windows
drivers ... it is the sole creation and property of microsoft.

Like I say, you attempt to use semantics to prove black is really white
...

No, John. Black is black and white is white.

Microsoft writes the specs to which the driver's must be written...

...but the hardware manufacturers/vendors write them.

Really?

I've got a lot of drivers on my computer, and when I look at the data I
find
most are provided by Microsoft.

In fact, the only drivers which aren't from Microsoft are those I
installed
or downloaded from a manufacturer.

Disk Drivers - Drivers by Microsoft
Disk Interface - Drivers by Microsoft
Keyboard - Driver by Microsoft
Mouse - Driver by Microsoft
Monitor - Driver by Microsoft
Ports - Driver by Microsoft
CPU - Driver by Microsoft
System Devices - Drivers by Microsoft
USB - Driver by Microsoft

Video Card - Driver by Nividia
Ethernet - Driver by Intel
Audio - Drivers by RealTec

If the hardware manufacturers/venders write them, then why do they state
they were provided by Microsoft?

Seems to me if someone else provided the drivers, then they could sue
Microsoft for false representation.

So why haven't they?



Scout: my discussions with John arose specifically about video cards.

"Windows didn't "go ahead" and do that, John. The companies that build
the graphics cards provide the drivers."

Quickly: Tell us again who wrote the video card drivers on your system...


Actually, you fudge again, whether by ignorance or design.

As I said, gates envisioned a motherboard with a chip on it, for video,
and would handle everything ... and, as I further stated, that did NOT
work out well ... windows had to rewrite and adapt the windows video
drivers to accompany much more powerful video ... and, of course, we are
now at the point where video cards, in themselves, are as powerful as
yesterdays computers ...

Windows write the specs, which defines the drivers, although they may be
assembled by software engineers working for others and off site ... not
any different than hardware, really ... in the aspects of the model of
patents, design, implementation, construction, manufacture, etc.

If someone wants to interface their hardware with windows, windows is
the piper and calls the tune ... "they" simply dance to it.

Regards,
JS

I give up. You have no clue about how these things work and you won't
listen.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg