LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

Some time ago, a debate broke out on this NG, about incandescent
bulbs, vs CF. And some pretty heated conversation took place.

I don't recall if it was Bruce Jensen or Telamon, but one brought
up that CF lamps were, at best a stopgap. Which will eventually be
replaced by LEDs.

At the time, LED lamps for home lighting were $60 or more, and
produced prodigious amounts of radio interference.

Well, things are changing.

About two weeks ago, I ran across these:


http://1000bulbs.com/search/?q=%EF%B...rchButton.y=15


I was intrigued by the 3000k color temperature, as opposed to the
2800k of the CF bulbs I'd been using, for a whiter, but still warm,
light. And the 8.5 watt draw, over the 13w draw of the equivalent output
CF bulbs.

So, I relamped my kitchen with them.

First blush, nicer, more color accurate light. And, using my light
meter, more of it for the energy input.

These lamps do produce some heat, so they can't be used in closed
fixtures, but they don't generate more heat than the comparable
incandescent.

I ordered another case of them and relamped, where I could, the
rest of my house with. MUCH more light, now. And more eye pleasing
light. Especially when I"m working, this is a big help. All for half the
energy of CF bulbs.

And no measurable radio interference.

Now, this is only at two weeks. White LED's are well known to fade
over time. So, things may change, as this experiment continues.

So, take it for what it's worth. Nice savings on the ComEd bill.
More and better light. Worth a try, if you're looking to cut down your
energy usage.


p

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:27:04 AM UTC-5, D. Peter Maus wrote:
Some time ago, a debate broke out on this NG, about incandescent

bulbs, vs CF. And some pretty heated conversation took place.



I don't recall if it was Bruce Jensen or Telamon, but one brought

up that CF lamps were, at best a stopgap. Which will eventually be

replaced by LEDs.



At the time, LED lamps for home lighting were $60 or more, and

produced prodigious amounts of radio interference.



Well, things are changing.



About two weeks ago, I ran across these:





http://1000bulbs.com/search/?q=%EF%B...rchButton.y=15





I was intrigued by the 3000k color temperature, as opposed to the

2800k of the CF bulbs I'd been using, for a whiter, but still warm,

light. And the 8.5 watt draw, over the 13w draw of the equivalent output

CF bulbs.



So, I relamped my kitchen with them.



First blush, nicer, more color accurate light. And, using my light

meter, more of it for the energy input.



These lamps do produce some heat, so they can't be used in closed

fixtures, but they don't generate more heat than the comparable

incandescent.



I ordered another case of them and relamped, where I could, the

rest of my house with. MUCH more light, now. And more eye pleasing

light. Especially when I"m working, this is a big help. All for half the

energy of CF bulbs.



And no measurable radio interference.



Now, this is only at two weeks. White LED's are well known to fade

over time. So, things may change, as this experiment continues.



So, take it for what it's worth. Nice savings on the ComEd bill.

More and better light. Worth a try, if you're looking to cut down your

energy usage.





p

What name brand and part number, and how much do they cost?

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On Thu, 8 Aug 2013, D. Peter Maus wrote:

And no measurable radio interference.

Now, this is only at two weeks. White LED's are well known to fade over
time. So, things may change, as this experiment continues.

So, take it for what it's worth. Nice savings on the ComEd bill. More and
better light. Worth a try, if you're looking to cut down your energy usage.

A couple of years ago, Ikea here had some LED desk lamps at 9.99, I think
an end of year clearout. So I bought some. I did like them, and they gave
off plenty of light, though more focused than a halogen or incandescent
desk lamp. I couldn't tell in the store how much light it put out, too
much light in the store, so I bought one and then went back when I saw
that the sample was fine at home.

The big problem was that they use switching supplies, and it was just
another noisy thing near radios. So I went back to halogen for the
bedside lamp, so I could actual hear things overnight. I have thought of
just making some analog supplies for that bedside lamp, it would be bigger
and hotter, but no noise.

I've been waiting for bigger LED bulbs to drop in price.

Michael

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On Thursday, August 8, 2013 11:37:49 AM UTC-5, Hils wrote:
On 2013-08-08 16:27, D. Peter Maus wrote:



[...]



So, take it for what it's worth. Nice savings on the ComEd bill.

More and better light. Worth a try, if you're looking to cut down your

energy usage.

I almost bought some LEDs when one of the local supermarkets had a batch

heavily discounted, but it would have meant changing fittings as well,

so I held off. I like "no measurable radio interference" though, so I

may well give them a try. Thanks for the relevant review.

I have a closet top shelf cram full of G.E. Reveal Incandescant 60 Watt light bulbs. I will probally be dead and gone before I ever use them all up. Looka here ilk, I just now took a 'two dollar tour' (via Youtube) of somewhere (Minehead, I think it is) in Somerset County in England. Google,,, Daihatsu Copen First Day of Ownership Part 1 Youtube

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On Thursday, August 8, 2013 12:21:06 PM UTC-5, DhiaDuit wrote:
On Thursday, August 8, 2013 11:37:49 AM UTC-5, Hils wrote:

On 2013-08-08 16:27, D. Peter Maus wrote:







[...]







So, take it for what it's worth. Nice savings on the ComEd bill.



More and better light. Worth a try, if you're looking to cut down your



energy usage.



I almost bought some LEDs when one of the local supermarkets had a batch



heavily discounted, but it would have meant changing fittings as well,



so I held off. I like "no measurable radio interference" though, so I



may well give them a try. Thanks for the relevant review.



I have a closet top shelf cram full of G.E. Reveal Incandescant 60 Watt light bulbs. I will probally be dead and gone before I ever use them all up. Looka here ilk, I just now took a 'two dollar tour' (via Youtube) of somewhere (Minehead, I think it is) in Somerset County in England. Google,,, Daihatsu Copen First Day of Ownership Part 1 Youtube

Keeping the light bulbs on in UK. Renewable Energy: Burning US Trees in UK Power Stations. www.libertypost.org I don't know if they still do it, but America used to send Ship loads of coal to U K. Google,,, Swamp Loggers Youtube

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 8/8/13 11:37 , Hils wrote:
On 2013-08-08 16:27, D. Peter Maus wrote:

[...]

So, take it for what it's worth. Nice savings on the ComEd bill.
More and better light. Worth a try, if you're looking to cut down your
energy usage.
I almost bought some LEDs when one of the local supermarkets had a batch
heavily discounted, but it would have meant changing fittings as well,
so I held off. I like "no measurable radio interference" though, so I
may well give them a try. Thanks for the relevant review.



You're welcome.

These are direct A19 replacements. So, sockets are the same. I just
did a pretty intense scan of the room with Zenith Royal 500. I had to
get right up on top of these things to get any hash.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 8/8/2013 11:27 AM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

These lamps do produce some heat, so they can't be used in closed
fixtures, but they don't generate more heat than the comparable
incandescent.

Huh? You say "they don't generate more heat than the comparable
incandescent." Even though you say they don't generate -more- heat, are
you implying that they generate heat -equal- to incandescent? If so,
that seems high, as a 50 w incandescent gives off 40-45 watts of heat.

Do they run hotter than the CFLs?

Even though they said don't use the CFLs in a closed fixture, I've had
two 60 watt equivalent CFLs in a hallway closed fixture and two more of
the same in an enclosed kitchen fixture. They've been there for almost a
year and have not yet burned out...or burned the house down, to say
nothing of using 1/4 of the power -- only 30 watts trapped in the
fixtures, not 120 watts.

Ultimately, LEDs will probably be the answer as soon as they get the
power up a bit more and the price down a bit more...although the price
you pointed out is pretty good.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 8/8/13 19:37 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 8/8/2013 11:27 AM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

These lamps do produce some heat, so they can't be used in closed
fixtures, but they don't generate more heat than the comparable
incandescent.

Huh? You say "they don't generate more heat than the comparable
incandescent." Even though you say they don't generate -more- heat, are
you implying that they generate heat -equal- to incandescent? If so,
that seems high, as a 50 w incandescent gives off 40-45 watts of heat.

I'm implying nothing. I've not done calorie/watt tests, and haven't
done temperature measurements, yet. It's still early in the experiement.



Do they run hotter than the CFLs?

Don't appear to, but then, we're also talking about the surface area
of distribution for said heat. CFL's are non metallic, which retain
heat. These have a large aluminum base, which doesn't.




Even though they said don't use the CFLs in a closed fixture, I've had
two 60 watt equivalent CFLs in a hallway closed fixture and two more of
the same in an enclosed kitchen fixture. They've been there for almost a
year and have not yet burned out...or burned the house down, to say
nothing of using 1/4 of the power -- only 30 watts trapped in the
fixtures, not 120 watts.

Precisely. I have three fixtures, also closed, that were also not
supposed to hold CFL's, but did. For a couple of years, now. But those
self-starters were not vented, either. These power supplies are.


Ultimately, LEDs will probably be the answer as soon as they get the
power up a bit more and the price down a bit more...although the price
you pointed out is pretty good.


It's not so much power, and illumination that they've got to get up.
So to speak. Although, these, according to my meters, put out rather
much more than the 50w equivalent they're rated at. More like a good 75W
incandescent. For an 8.5w cost..that's promising.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

What is the maximum wattage (equivalent) currently on the market? Am
currently 'all-incandescent' and use mostly 100 & 150 watt bulbs.

Are current LEDs living up to their price vs. longevity value? Forgetting
energy savings, are they worth the money being charged?

HG

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

Did some temperature measurements, today.

A 23W CFL, after two hours, open table lamp fixture, showed a
plastic base surface temperature of 144 degrees F.

A 13W CFL, after two hours, open, inverted bathroom fixture,
plastic base surface temperature 141 degrees F.

8.5 LED lamp in an inverted open ceiling fixture after two hours
aluminum base surface temperature- 141 Degrees F.

Temperature of the illuminated surface each 99-109 degrees F.

Surface temperature of the illuminated surface of 75W incandescent
open fixtu 171 degrees.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 8/9/13 13:15 , HankG wrote:
What is the maximum wattage (equivalent) currently on the market? Am
currently 'all-incandescent' and use mostly 100 & 150 watt bulbs.

Are current LEDs living up to their price vs. longevity value? Forgetting
energy savings, are they worth the money being charged?

HG




So far, I"m getting the equivalent of 75w incandescent light out of
one 8.5W LED lamp.

Color temperature is 3000k, vs 2800K for CFL's installed.

Only a bit of time will verify that the longevity expectations are
being met.

White LED's are well known to fade over time, if pressed. Time and Time.

As for high output....there is an A19, 2700K white with a draw of 10.2
W, with a rated equivalent of 100W.

In other formats, an R40 18W 3000K with an equivalent output of 120W

And a PAR 38, 23W 3000K, 150W equivalent.


These are all rated at 50,000 hours.

Not bad if it makes half that number.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 8/9/2013 2:33 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

So far, I"m getting the equivalent of 75w incandescent light out of
one 8.5W LED lamp.

The URL/ ad that you quoted said:

Stock Code: ETI-520163MD
8.5 Watt - LED Light Bulb - Omni-Directional A19 - 3000K Warm White - 600 Lumens - 50 Watt Equal

They advertise it a 50 watt equivalent but you are saying it's the same
as 75 watts. If it really is close to 75, one would think they would not
be shy and call it 75.

Are you actually measuring the lumen output or just "eyeballing" it? Do
you have higher than 'normal' line voltage?

Not pickin' on ya, D.P. It's just that inquiring minds want to know why
the difference. :-)

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 8/9/13 18:48 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 8/9/2013 2:33 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

So far, I"m getting the equivalent of 75w incandescent light out of
one 8.5W LED lamp.

The URL/ ad that you quoted said:

Stock Code: ETI-520163MD
8.5 Watt - LED Light Bulb - Omni-Directional A19 - 3000K Warm White -
600 Lumens - 50 Watt Equal

They advertise it a 50 watt equivalent but you are saying it's the same
as 75 watts. If it really is close to 75, one would think they would not
be shy and call it 75.

Are you actually measuring the lumen output or just "eyeballing" it? Do
you have higher than 'normal' line voltage?

Not pickin' on ya, D.P. It's just that inquiring minds want to know why
the difference. :-)


Dial it back, Joe.

I did mention that I used a light meter to measure the output. Were
you not reading?


White LEDs do not directly produce light, like a single color LED.
They produce a wavelength and expose it to a phosphor which causes the
phosphor to flouresce. Since that's a ablative process, the output of a
white LED diminishes over time, depending on how hard the phosphor is
worked.

White LED lamps are correctly rated at an average luminary output
over time.

I'm at the beginning of these lamps' life cycle. So output is higher
than rated.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 8/9/2013 2:33 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

So far, I"m getting the equivalent of 75w incandescent light out of
one 8.5W LED lamp.

On 8/9/13 18:48 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:

The URL/ ad that you quoted said:

Stock Code: ETI-520163MD
8.5 Watt - LED Light Bulb - Omni-Directional A19 - 3000K Warm White -
600 Lumens - 50 Watt Equal

They advertise it a 50 watt equivalent but you are saying it's the same
as 75 watts. If it really is close to 75, one would think they would not
be shy and call it 75.

Are you actually measuring the lumen output or just "eyeballing" it? Do
you have higher than 'normal' line voltage?

Not pickin' on ya, D.P. It's just that inquiring minds want to know why
the difference. :-)

On 8/10/2013 7:46 AM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

Dial it back, Joe.

I did mention that I used a light meter to measure the output. Were
you not reading?

Yes, I was reading and here is what you said, input, not output:

First blush, nicer, more color accurate light. And, using my light meter, more of it for the energy input.

"...using my light meter, more of it for the energy input"? Maybe my bad
or maybe not. Your grammar is a little convoluted and it really isn't
very clear (to me at least) what that statement meant. To most people,
energy *input* refers to the 8.5 watts the bulb draws from the AC line,
not the lumen *output*.

You further state:

I'm at the beginning of these lamps' life cycle. So output is higher than rated.

It would be interesting to see if the manufacture has a graph that shows
lumen output versus hours of operation.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 08/09/2013 11:15 AM, HankG wrote:
What is the maximum wattage (equivalent) currently on the market? Am
currently 'all-incandescent' and use mostly 100 & 150 watt bulbs.

Are current LEDs living up to their price vs. longevity value? Forgetting
energy savings, are they worth the money being charged?

HG



I don't think so; the CFLs are still the cheapest. I have a work light
with an LED for mechanical ruggedness.

I have a 150 Watt bulb I use to test 100 Watt guitar amps. I stopped
using incandescents almost 30 years ago.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On 8/10/13 08:49 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 8/9/2013 2:33 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

So far, I"m getting the equivalent of 75w incandescent light out of
one 8.5W LED lamp.

On 8/9/13 18:48 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:

The URL/ ad that you quoted said:

Stock Code: ETI-520163MD
8.5 Watt - LED Light Bulb - Omni-Directional A19 - 3000K Warm White -
600 Lumens - 50 Watt Equal

They advertise it a 50 watt equivalent but you are saying it's the same
as 75 watts. If it really is close to 75, one would think they would not
be shy and call it 75.

Are you actually measuring the lumen output or just "eyeballing" it? Do
you have higher than 'normal' line voltage?

Not pickin' on ya, D.P. It's just that inquiring minds want to know why
the difference. :-)

On 8/10/2013 7:46 AM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

Dial it back, Joe.

I did mention that I used a light meter to measure the output. Were
you not reading?

Yes, I was reading and here is what you said, input, not output:

First blush, nicer, more color accurate light. And, using my light
meter, more of it for the energy input.



"...using my light meter, more of it for the energy input"? Maybe my bad
or maybe not. Your grammar is a little convoluted and it really isn't
very clear (to me at least) what that statement meant. To most people,
energy *input* refers to the 8.5 watts the bulb draws from the AC line,
not the lumen *output*.


And 'more of it' refers to the light measured with the light meter.



You further state:

I'm at the beginning of these lamps' life cycle. So output is higher
than rated.

It would be interesting to see if the manufacture has a graph that shows
lumen output versus hours of operation.

I'm sure they do. White LED's all decay.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:04:47 PM UTC-5, D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 8/10/13 08:49 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:



On 8/9/2013 2:33 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:



So far, I"m getting the equivalent of 75w incandescent light out of

one 8.5W LED lamp.



On 8/9/13 18:48 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:



The URL/ ad that you quoted said:



Stock Code: ETI-520163MD

8.5 Watt - LED Light Bulb - Omni-Directional A19 - 3000K Warm White -

600 Lumens - 50 Watt Equal



They advertise it a 50 watt equivalent but you are saying it's the same

as 75 watts. If it really is close to 75, one would think they would not

be shy and call it 75.



Are you actually measuring the lumen output or just "eyeballing" it? Do

you have higher than 'normal' line voltage?



Not pickin' on ya, D.P. It's just that inquiring minds want to know why

the difference. :-)



On 8/10/2013 7:46 AM, D. Peter Maus wrote:



Dial it back, Joe.



I did mention that I used a light meter to measure the output. Were

you not reading?



Yes, I was reading and here is what you said, input, not output:



First blush, nicer, more color accurate light. And, using my light

meter, more of it for the energy input.







"...using my light meter, more of it for the energy input"? Maybe my bad

or maybe not. Your grammar is a little convoluted and it really isn't

very clear (to me at least) what that statement meant. To most people,

energy *input* refers to the 8.5 watts the bulb draws from the AC line,

not the lumen *output*.





And 'more of it' refers to the light measured with the light meter.







You further state:



I'm at the beginning of these lamps' life cycle. So output is higher

than rated.



It would be interesting to see if the manufacture has a graph that shows

lumen output versus hours of operation.



I'm sure they do. White LED's all decay.











Brazilian mechanic uses plastic bottles and bleach to illuminate 1 million homes. www.standeyo.com The article links to www.dailymail.co.uk Brasil is the proper way to spell the name of that Country.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 8/9/13 18:48 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 8/9/2013 2:33 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

So far, I"m getting the equivalent of 75w incandescent light out of
one 8.5W LED lamp.

The URL/ ad that you quoted said:

Stock Code: ETI-520163MD
8.5 Watt - LED Light Bulb - Omni-Directional A19 - 3000K Warm White -
600 Lumens - 50 Watt Equal

They advertise it a 50 watt equivalent but you are saying it's the same
as 75 watts. If it really is close to 75, one would think they would not
be shy and call it 75.

Are you actually measuring the lumen output or just "eyeballing" it? Do
you have higher than 'normal' line voltage?

Not pickin' on ya, D.P. It's just that inquiring minds want to know why
the difference. :-)


Dial it back, Joe.

I did mention that I used a light meter to measure the output. Were
you not reading?

My understanding is that a lumen is not directly a measure of
output power. It is modified by a weighting curve, I believe,
to reflect our eyes' varying response to different wavelengths.

So you need, of course, a light meter that reads true lumens,
not just power output (energy per unit time).

But I agree with your statement below that they may be quoting average
output over the rated life of the device.

White LEDs do not directly produce light, like a single color LED.
They produce a wavelength and expose it to a phosphor which causes the
phosphor to flouresce. Since that's a ablative process, the output of a
white LED diminishes over time, depending on how hard the phosphor is
worked.

Here's some info, albeit somewhat technical:

http://www.digikey.com/us/en/techzon...of-fading.html

I had no idea that the process involved the additional step. Nor did
I realize that fading might occur, caused by crystalline imperfections
that grow worse over time.

This article claims that the band gap is such that the naturally
produced radiation is towards the short wavelength end of the
visible, and that the fluorescence (phosphorescence?) adds in
the longer wavelengths so that the resulting radiation appears
white, i.e., distributed more uniformly across the visible
spectrum.

George

White LED lamps are correctly rated at an average luminary output over
time.

I'm at the beginning of these lamps' life cycle. So output is higher
than rated.

LED Recommendation...and a bit OT
 

On Friday, August 30, 2013 3:36:38 PM UTC-5, George Cornelius wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:

On 8/9/13 18:48 , Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 8/9/2013 2:33 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:



So far, I"m getting the equivalent of 75w incandescent light out of

one 8.5W LED lamp.



The URL/ ad that you quoted said:



Stock Code: ETI-520163MD

8.5 Watt - LED Light Bulb - Omni-Directional A19 - 3000K Warm White -

600 Lumens - 50 Watt Equal



They advertise it a 50 watt equivalent but you are saying it's the same

as 75 watts. If it really is close to 75, one would think they would not

be shy and call it 75.



Are you actually measuring the lumen output or just "eyeballing" it? Do

you have higher than 'normal' line voltage?



Not pickin' on ya, D.P. It's just that inquiring minds want to know why

the difference. :-)





Dial it back, Joe.



I did mention that I used a light meter to measure the output. Were

you not reading?



My understanding is that a lumen is not directly a measure of

output power. It is modified by a weighting curve, I believe,

to reflect our eyes' varying response to different wavelengths.



So you need, of course, a light meter that reads true lumens,

not just power output (energy per unit time).



But I agree with your statement below that they may be quoting average

output over the rated life of the device.



White LEDs do not directly produce light, like a single color LED.

They produce a wavelength and expose it to a phosphor which causes the

phosphor to flouresce. Since that's a ablative process, the output of a

white LED diminishes over time, depending on how hard the phosphor is

worked.



Here's some info, albeit somewhat technical:



http://www.digikey.com/us/en/techzon...of-fading.html



I had no idea that the process involved the additional step. Nor did

I realize that fading might occur, caused by crystalline imperfections

that grow worse over time.



This article claims that the band gap is such that the naturally

produced radiation is towards the short wavelength end of the

visible, and that the fluorescence (phosphorescence?) adds in

the longer wavelengths so that the resulting radiation appears

white, i.e., distributed more uniformly across the visible

spectrum.



George



White LED lamps are correctly rated at an average luminary output over

time.



I'm at the beginning of these lamps' life cycle. So output is higher

than rated.

Roundup: 100 Watt Equvalent LEDs. http://spectrum.ieee.org Sumpin like that. You can find it at www.blacklistednews.com How To Survey A Home For Internet Interference. www.technewsworld.com Sumpin like that.