Unfortunately, the tens of millions of Cell Phone users could probably live
quite easily without 60% of them. Hearing stories of people behind the wheel,
and some in front of the vehicle where cell phones are in use, losing their
lives while discussing wedding plans, what to wear to the prom, or stop and
pick up some milk is indeed a travesty of the 21sy Century. I think that the
distraction to driving is not worth the gain in convenience. I guess that the
same could be applied to the use of any 2 way device while driving, but, as
you say, there are far fewer HAMs. Cell Phone manufacturers are stuffing the
phones with additional features, WEB browsing, digital cameras where one can
send the image, text, etc, assures that increasing numbers of people will lose
their lives for these asinine things.

I carry a beeper and a cell phone. The beeper is alphanumeric, usually people
send the requisite info without me needing to reply. I use the phone
sparingly. (I realize that both features are available on phones, but I need a
device for use in explosive atmospheres, intrinsically safe I believe, and the
Motorola beeper fits the bill).

Regards.




In article ,
(RHF) wrote:

But they will never serve the tens of millions of Celphone Users.

Never say never.
Nothing is absolute.

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:38:52 -0400, RHF wrote:

KC2HMZ,

The simple reality is that 1/3 to 1/2 of the USA population has
Celphones.

The HAM Bands and the Amateur Radio Systems could not support 100-150
Million Users all trying to "Get A Radio Check".


~ RHF


Wow, really bad FUD you have there, better have that looked at.

You're thinking of another "service", CB.

Radio Amateur KC2HMZ wrote:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 22:59:03 GMT, Its (The Dawn
Soliloquy) wrote:

I agree with your entire post, but your statements following are so revealing
of the 21st century citizen. Simple concepts of technology that so many people
are oblivious to.

Cable TV sales pitch voice ON

"But wait - there's more!"

cable TV sales pitch voice OFF

Some of my more observant neighbors have figured out (1) that I'm a
ham, and (2) that therefore I'm some sort of an electronics expert.
Maybe it's the ARES and SKYWARN decals on my van. Maybe it's the five
antennas. Maybe it's the rugged good looks and
steely-eyed...ahem...well, anyway...today as I'm getting out of my
van, one of the neighbors accosts me in the parking lot to ask if I
can take a look and see if I can figure out why her phones don't work.
People ended up calling her on her cell phone because her landline
phone was busy for something like 4 hours.

I go over there, walk in the kitchen, there's the phone on the wall,
your typical $8 wall phone bought from a five-and-dime. I pick up the
receiver, listen...I hear the steady tone you hear after a phone's
been off the hook for so long the switch gets tired of playing the
recording telling you to hang up your phone. I hang it up...pick it
up...same sound. I ask her if she has another phone.

"I have my cell phone," she replies, holding up her tiny little Nokia
piece of junk in designer colors.

I begin to wonder if there's a computer or something that has the
phone off the hook. I ask what else she has that connects to the phone
company's lines. She says nothing. No computer, no answering machine,
no nothing.

"Hmmm....what were you doing when the power went out?"

"I was...oh! I was talking on the phone in the bedroom, I forgot about
it. But it's a cordless phone, it doesn't connect to the phone line."

You can guess now, right? When the power went off and her base unit
went dead, she simply put the handset down and walked away. When the
power came back on, the handset was still off hook. She was surprised
to find out that that thing she hangs the handset up onto when she's
done with it really is more than just a battery charger for the
handset, and is actually connected to the telco jack.

"Who hooked this up for you?"

"My ex-husband," she said, her eyes narrowing with lingering hatred as
she launches into the story of how he dumped her for some...well, use
your imagination. I'm letting it go in one ear and out the other,
thinking to myself, "Want me to tell you why he left? :-) "

She's a blonde. I'm thinking of getting her some black hair dye next
Christmas. It'll raise her IQ a hundred points if she uses it.

Probably an urban legend, an e-mail that I have received on occasion is a
story about a woman standing by her car, the woman is crying. She's holding a
small plastic electronic implement, trying to goad the implement into working.
A concerned stranger approaches, and asks her about her problem. She asks him
if he knows of a store where she can buy watch size batteries, it's seems that
her automatic car door unlocker is no longer working. The stranger asks if the
small electronic device is in fact attached to her key chain, to which she
replies yes. He takes the key chain, finds the correct key, and unlocks her
car door.

Problem solved.

Why is this story so easy to believe in the modern world?

Because the average person is basically clueless as to how things
work, and our society is currently a disposable society where if it
doesn't work you throw it out and buy a new one. Also because once
such people become used to using technology they forget what they used
to do before they learned to apply it.


The second reason you give is something I completely agree with. But
our disposable culture, supported by mass production, actually makes
it "smarter" in some ways to ignore how a thing works. Why bother to
figure out how to repair your portable CD player when you can get a
new one for $20?

But the first reason you give, that I take issue with. I don't think
the "average person" is more clueless as to how things work in this
world than a century ago. The seeming distinction is due to the
increase in the number of "things that work" and the resulting
specialization of knowledge.

HAMS are not necessarily more clued into "how things work" outside of
radio and the electricity knowledge they employ. I cannot count how
many times I've tuned in to Hams discussing their computer issues. 3
or 4 guys spouting utter rubbish about simple concepts (like OS vs.
app., or firewall vs. antivirus), giving out advice that is bound to
fail, or trying to figure out why emails sent to "www.website.com"
won't get through.

Just because a guy can build a radio out of a bin of metal recyclables
doesn't mean s/he can change the oil in the car, poach an egg, or post
to usenet.

My 2 cents.


Care to guess how many stores stayed open after their power went out,
and how many had to close because the cash registers weren't working
and the morons working there can't figure out how much change you get
from your dollar after you buy a $0.74 item unless the cash register
tells them to fork over your $0.26?

73 DE John, KC2HMZ
There's a sucker born every minute. -- P.T. Barnum

--
Col. I.P. Yurin
Commissariat of Internal Security

Stakhanovite
Order of Lenin (1937)
Hero of Socialist Labor (1939)

Its (The Dawn Soliloquy) wrote in message ...
It's a matter of perception. If you want to believe that they're all holier
than thou, they'll all seem holier than thou. If you believe that among the
schmucks there are people worth speaking to and working with, you'll find
these as well.

Personally, I have trouble at HAM fests. Many of the HAMS there seem socially
quite dysfunctional. But most of the others don't seem to notice. Myself, I
like gun shows, and have had many an interesting political discussion with
various vendors. You might perceive these vendors as ultra rightwing, I find
them engaging, quite normal, quite friendly.

Water glass half full or half empty? Same water glass, different perception.

Regards.

In article , Gregg
wrote:
I like HAM Radio, I absolutely hate most of the operators and their
stinking "holier than thou" attitude.

That's why I let my VE4 call lapse.


Never say never.
Nothing is absolute.

I agree, I never met many right wingers in person, but on certain
chats I attend occasionally where we discuss Area 51, most of them are
right-wing and extremely friendly and very open minded, willing to
discuss or debate topics in a very friendly way.

I consider myself socially dysfunctional, but friendly. I've noticed
this with many people of this type. People of the real "social" type
tend to be full of themselves and rude.

Radio Amateur KC2HMZ wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 22:59:03 GMT, Its (The Dawn
Soliloquy) wrote:

I agree with your entire post, but your statements following are so revealing
of the 21st century citizen. Simple concepts of technology that so many people
are oblivious to.

Cable TV sales pitch voice ON

"But wait - there's more!"

cable TV sales pitch voice OFF

Some of my more observant neighbors have figured out (1) that I'm a
ham, and (2) that therefore I'm some sort of an electronics expert.
Maybe it's the ARES and SKYWARN decals on my van. Maybe it's the five
antennas. Maybe it's the rugged good looks and
steely-eyed...ahem...well, anyway...today as I'm getting out of my
van, one of the neighbors accosts me in the parking lot to ask if I
can take a look and see if I can figure out why her phones don't work.
People ended up calling her on her cell phone because her landline
phone was busy for something like 4 hours.

I go over there, walk in the kitchen, there's the phone on the wall,
your typical $8 wall phone bought from a five-and-dime. I pick up the
receiver, listen...I hear the steady tone you hear after a phone's
been off the hook for so long the switch gets tired of playing the
recording telling you to hang up your phone. I hang it up...pick it
up...same sound. I ask her if she has another phone.

"I have my cell phone," she replies, holding up her tiny little Nokia
piece of junk in designer colors.

I begin to wonder if there's a computer or something that has the
phone off the hook. I ask what else she has that connects to the phone
company's lines. She says nothing. No computer, no answering machine,
no nothing.

"Hmmm....what were you doing when the power went out?"

"I was...oh! I was talking on the phone in the bedroom, I forgot about
it. But it's a cordless phone, it doesn't connect to the phone line."

You can guess now, right? When the power went off and her base unit
went dead, she simply put the handset down and walked away. When the
power came back on, the handset was still off hook. She was surprised
to find out that that thing she hangs the handset up onto when she's
done with it really is more than just a battery charger for the
handset, and is actually connected to the telco jack.

"Who hooked this up for you?"

"My ex-husband," she said, her eyes narrowing with lingering hatred as
she launches into the story of how he dumped her for some...well, use
your imagination. I'm letting it go in one ear and out the other,
thinking to myself, "Want me to tell you why he left? :-) "

She's a blonde. I'm thinking of getting her some black hair dye next
Christmas. It'll raise her IQ a hundred points if she uses it.

Probably an urban legend, an e-mail that I have received on occasion is a
story about a woman standing by her car, the woman is crying. She's holding a
small plastic electronic implement, trying to goad the implement into working.
A concerned stranger approaches, and asks her about her problem. She asks him
if he knows of a store where she can buy watch size batteries, it's seems that
her automatic car door unlocker is no longer working. The stranger asks if the
small electronic device is in fact attached to her key chain, to which she
replies yes. He takes the key chain, finds the correct key, and unlocks her
car door.

Problem solved.

Why is this story so easy to believe in the modern world?

Because the average person is basically clueless as to how things
work, and our society is currently a disposable society where if it
doesn't work you throw it out and buy a new one. Also because once
such people become used to using technology they forget what they used
to do before they learned to apply it.

Care to guess how many stores stayed open after their power went out,
and how many had to close because the cash registers weren't working
and the morons working there can't figure out how much change you get
from your dollar after you buy a $0.74 item unless the cash register
tells them to fork over your $0.26?

73 DE John, KC2HMZ
There's a sucker born every minute. -- P.T. Barnum

And I am assuming you could figure that out in a matter of seconds? I
really don't call people working long hours to earn a living "morons"
I guess your life and job is so great that you can call cashiers and
supermarket folk like me morons? You can, but it don't offend me.

Care to guess how many stores stayed open after their power went out,
and how many had to close because the cash registers weren't working
and the morons working there can't figure out how much change you get
from your dollar after you buy a $0.74 item unless the cash register
tells them to fork over your $0.26?

73 DE John, KC2HMZ
There's a sucker born every minute. -- P.T. Barnum

And I am assuming you could figure that out in a matter of seconds? I
really don't call people working long hours to earn a living "morons"
I guess your life and job is so great that you can call cashiers and
supermarket folk like me morons? You can, but it don't offend me.


I don't call hard working people morons either; but the inability to
calculate the change from a dollar for 74 cents in under a second
betrays a terrible lack of education at the very least. I find it
amusing, and sad, to have the correct change in my hand while the clerk
is using a machine to figure out the taxes and the total - some of them
are genuinely bewildered when they finally figure it out and realize I
have the amount in my hand. Mind you some of the old folks working at
Wal-Mart and McDonalds can do it even faster than I can. Hell my
Grandmothers (both of them) could do hexadecimal mental math instantly
(so can my wife); they just don't call it hex. The old saying is true,
a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Dave

Dave Holford wrote in message ...
Care to guess how many stores stayed open after their power went out,
and how many had to close because the cash registers weren't working
and the morons working there can't figure out how much change you get
from your dollar after you buy a $0.74 item unless the cash register
tells them to fork over your $0.26?

73 DE John, KC2HMZ
There's a sucker born every minute. -- P.T. Barnum

And I am assuming you could figure that out in a matter of seconds? I
really don't call people working long hours to earn a living "morons"
I guess your life and job is so great that you can call cashiers and
supermarket folk like me morons? You can, but it don't offend me.


I don't call hard working people morons either; but the inability to
calculate the change from a dollar for 74 cents in under a second
betrays a terrible lack of education at the very least. I find it
amusing, and sad, to have the correct change in my hand while the clerk
is using a machine to figure out the taxes and the total - some of them
are genuinely bewildered when they finally figure it out and realize I
have the amount in my hand. Mind you some of the old folks working at
Wal-Mart and McDonalds can do it even faster than I can. Hell my
Grandmothers (both of them) could do hexadecimal mental math instantly
(so can my wife); they just don't call it hex. The old saying is true,
a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Dave


Well perhaps your right about this. You see, with all the new techs,
calculators and digital cash registers.. nobody really has to figure
out change anymore these days. That's why many people aren't
proficient at it.

The Dawn Soliloquy wrote:


Do you find your mouth a more useful implement than your ears? I have gleaned
quite a bit of useful data during storms and other emergencies in my area
simply by listening to public service radio. I have avoided roads and
situations by these means that would have been inconvenient or dangerous. One
could easily imagine that careful listening to HAMs and others during
emergencies might likewise yield useful information.

Certainly with the current state of education in America, and the requirements
that people have at least a modicum of knowledge before they can legally take
to the airwaves, this would significantly reduce the percentage of Americans
becoming involved in Amateur Radio.

Are you one of the HAMs that seek to preserve the HAM bands for your own use
or do you acknowledge that other Americans, just like yourself, can avail
themselves of these privileges if properly educated and equipped?

Your post may be a bit more telling then you realize.

He's got a point-whenever there's a blackout in my area (northcentral
California, so they're relatively rare) the 911 lines are jammed with
people wanting to know when the power will be back on. The same effect
would apply if those morons had HF transcievers. I guess there could be
"designated amateur disaster stations" which would be local hams that
would be trained in disaster comms. The whole neighborhood could listen
in via Part 15 FM tx, but only the designated ham could do HF comms. I
should note that my DX396 can't process SSB (like most portables) so
that listening in to the ham bands during a blackout would be
impossible. (My Yaesu has tunable SSB, but it's 120vAC.)


Regards.


In article ,
(RHF) wrote:
KC2HMZ,

The simple reality is that 1/3 to 1/2 of the USA population has
Celphones.

The HAM Bands and the Amateur Radio Systems could not support 100-150
Million Users all trying to "Get A Radio Check".

Never say never.
Nothing is absolute.

RHF wrote:

TDS,

You READ Too Much Into the Brief Comment.

The HAM Bands and Amateur Operators in an Emergency are useful and
have their place.

But they will never serve the tens of millions of Celphone Users.

Just Remember the CB Radios and Bands in the 1960s and 1970s.

Most HAMs should be 'respected' for their Knowledge, Commitment and
Discipline.

Most Celphone users lack all three, especially the latter.

NOTE: There were News Reports that many Americans did not have a
simple 'portable' AM/FM Radio with "Batteries" in it for this type of
emergency.

That's true-the few New Yorkers who did have portable radios were
besieged with requests for info. I keep an old Radio Shack portable on
hand, and if I find that doesn't work I have a Freeplay 360 (the latter
can be annoying cause you have to keep cranking it to keep it on).



gc ~ RHF
..
..
= = = Its (The Dawn Soliloquy)
= = = wrote in message ...
Do you find your mouth a more useful implement than your ears? I have gleaned
quite a bit of useful data during storms and other emergencies in my area
simply by listening to public service radio. I have avoided roads and
situations by these means that would have been inconvenient or dangerous. One
could easily imagine that careful listening to HAMs and others during
emergencies might likewise yield useful information.

Certainly with the current state of education in America, and the requirements
that people have at least a modicum of knowledge before they can legally take
to the airwaves, this would significantly reduce the percentage of Americans
becoming involved in Amateur Radio.

Are you one of the HAMs that seek to preserve the HAM bands for your own use
or do you acknowledge that other Americans, just like yourself, can avail
themselves of these privileges if properly educated and equipped?

Your post may be a bit more telling then you realize.

Regards.


In article ,
(RHF) wrote:
KC2HMZ,

The simple reality is that 1/3 to 1/2 of the USA population has
Celphones.

The HAM Bands and the Amateur Radio Systems could not support 100-150
Million Users all trying to "Get A Radio Check".

Never say never.
Nothing is absolute.