In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"--exray--" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote in message
m...

Is it a coincidence that the rise of domestic SW came after the
decline

of

the radio networks?

keyphrase doesn't compute. "Rise of domestic SW" ???

As far as I can tell, the FCC pulled out of the political content
regulation business entirely. And the same line of thought would
make the FCC domestic SW content ban unenforcable. Good for the
FCC! Good for Rev. Norris, too!

I think the FCC is at least cognizant enough to consider Domestic
SWBC a non-issue. Outside of a couple dozen radiofolk here, who
would listen to Domestic SW?

You have the key. No listeners.

Even in supposed hotbeds of SW listening, the use of SW is much
exaggerated. When I was working in South America in the 60's, I
inspected the radio ratings questionnaires for tens of thousands of
people. I never, ever saw a SW station reported in any city with
local radio.

There are a lot of short wave radios out there and nobody is using them?

I think there are many people using them for information and news but
not so much for entertainment. The entertainment factor may be making
the difference in which SW does not show up in the surveys.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

Even in supposed hotbeds of SW listening, the use of SW is much
exaggerated. When I was working in South America in the 60's, I
inspected the radio ratings questionnaires for tens of thousands of
people. I never, ever saw a SW station reported in any city with
local radio.

There are a lot of short wave radios out there and nobody is using them?

Nope. From a statistical point of view, 0.01 percent of the population is
"no one."

I think there are many people using them for information and news but
not so much for entertainment. The entertainment factor may be making
the difference in which SW does not show up in the surveys.

"Many" to me would be lots of people. 5% or 10% of the population in mass
media would probably be a bottom limit for "many."

A few hundred people in a city of a million or so would not.

Surveys show any listening. Back when I saw ones for some South American
cities, they were what is known as coincidental. In other words, they
recorded what the person was listening to at that very moment, not what they
remembered. And they still did not pick up any SW listening.

50 kw for a domestic shortwave relay service is practical.

http://cbc.am/cbc.htm

Canada's rural and northern populations are not served by AM & FM radio
stations during daytime hours. The lack of daytime radio service is a
disservice to the people in these remote regions. The CBC / SRC has pretty
much failed its mandate to provide adequate radio service to these remote
regions since the 1980s.

Most of Canada's remotely populated areas can be reached by only two
shortwave transmission sites. Shortwave is an ideal media for delivering
radio programming to remote regions during daytime hours. The proposal
before you is for the site that could serve western and northern Canada. The
transmitter site is in British Columbia.

Technical Notes

A second transmitter could be added to this shortwave relay site. The two
transmitters could use the same antenna with the aid of a multiplexer. With
a second transmitter the output power (of both transmitters) could be
reduced to 30 kw. A second transmitter does not imply that the 2
transmitters would be used continuously. It is expected that the two
transmitters would only be used simultaneously during prime listening hours.
The two transmitters would run in parallel around 8 hours / day, out of an
18 hours / day transmission schedule.

It is assumed that compatible DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) AM [+ digital
subcarriers] will be the primary transmission mode. DRM consumes 10 khz of
andbandwidth is highly robust. DRM allows for high quality digital audio
transmission over very long distances.

These computations are not fully optimized. The frequency and antenna types
may need to be (slightly) altered to optimally achieve the goal of covering
75% of Canada's landmass with a reliable SW service. Radio Canada
International's Sackville Relay Station could be expected to fill in the
gaps that this transmitter site is not able to reach with a similar
transmission system.

Masset, BC was chosen because it allows for an all water path. Water is
highly reflective of RF energy in the 500 khz to 25 mhz range. This
reflectivity greatly decreases signal loss, making the critical first hop
into the ionosphere more productive. It is estimated that the transmitter
output power is reduced by 50 kw by using this technique.

Multilingual Broadcasting
It is expected that some SRC programmes and news will be transmitted to the
western provinces and northern territories, but it is not expected to be
more than 2 hours / day. Some programming in northern languages from CBC
North is also expected to be transmitted as well, but no more than 2 hours /
day.


While not wanting to get into the pirate argument, do note that the FCC
regulations establish a *minimum* power of 50kw for International
Broadcast Stations. (there doesn't seem to be any maximum!)

50kw requires a far more expensive transmitter than most pirates could
afford. The domestic shortwave relays operated by a handful of Canadian
MW stations (CFRX Toronto etc.) seem to demonstrate that with careful
frequency selection, usable coverage can be obtained with much lower
powers.

(they do also seem to demonstrate that even at lower powers these
operations don't make economic sense...)
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

MH,

Sounds Good, I'd Vote for It !
- - - Ooops I'm NOT a Canadian )

jftfoi ~ RHF
..
..
= = = "http://CBC.am/"
= = = wrote in message ...
50 kw for a domestic shortwave relay service is practical.

http://cbc.am/cbc.htm

Canada's rural and northern populations are not served by AM & FM radio
stations during daytime hours. The lack of daytime radio service is a
disservice to the people in these remote regions. The CBC / SRC has pretty
much failed its mandate to provide adequate radio service to these remote
regions since the 1980s.

Most of Canada's remotely populated areas can be reached by only two
shortwave transmission sites. Shortwave is an ideal media for delivering
radio programming to remote regions during daytime hours. The proposal
before you is for the site that could serve western and northern Canada. The
transmitter site is in British Columbia.

Technical Notes

A second transmitter could be added to this shortwave relay site. The two
transmitters could use the same antenna with the aid of a multiplexer. With
a second transmitter the output power (of both transmitters) could be
reduced to 30 kw. A second transmitter does not imply that the 2
transmitters would be used continuously. It is expected that the two
transmitters would only be used simultaneously during prime listening hours.
The two transmitters would run in parallel around 8 hours / day, out of an
18 hours / day transmission schedule.

It is assumed that compatible DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) AM [+ digital
subcarriers] will be the primary transmission mode. DRM consumes 10 khz of
andbandwidth is highly robust. DRM allows for high quality digital audio
transmission over very long distances.

These computations are not fully optimized. The frequency and antenna types
may need to be (slightly) altered to optimally achieve the goal of covering
75% of Canada's landmass with a reliable SW service. Radio Canada
International's Sackville Relay Station could be expected to fill in the
gaps that this transmitter site is not able to reach with a similar
transmission system.

Masset, BC was chosen because it allows for an all water path. Water is
highly reflective of RF energy in the 500 khz to 25 mhz range. This
reflectivity greatly decreases signal loss, making the critical first hop
into the ionosphere more productive. It is estimated that the transmitter
output power is reduced by 50 kw by using this technique.

Multilingual Broadcasting
It is expected that some SRC programmes and news will be transmitted to the
western provinces and northern territories, but it is not expected to be
more than 2 hours / day. Some programming in northern languages from CBC
North is also expected to be transmitted as well, but no more than 2 hours /
day.


While not wanting to get into the pirate argument, do note that the FCC
regulations establish a *minimum* power of 50kw for International
Broadcast Stations. (there doesn't seem to be any maximum!)

50kw requires a far more expensive transmitter than most pirates could
afford. The domestic shortwave relays operated by a handful of Canadian
MW stations (CFRX Toronto etc.) seem to demonstrate that with careful
frequency selection, usable coverage can be obtained with much lower
powers.

(they do also seem to demonstrate that even at lower powers these
operations don't make economic sense...)
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

"David Eduardo" wrote in message . com...
This stipulation required the broadcasters to engage in programming that
"will reflect the culture of this country and will promote international
good will and understanding,"

Are you saying that if supporters of the Dalai Lama wanted to
broadcast into Tibet, promoting the Tibetan Buddhist culture that Red
China seeks to supplant, they would be denied a license?

-- Buster http://www.rev.net/~aloe/freedom

"The Green Troll" wrote in message
om...


Are you saying that if supporters of the Dalai Lama wanted to
broadcast into Tibet, promoting the Tibetan Buddhist culture that Red
China seeks to supplant, they would be denied a license?

-- Buster http://www.rev.net/~aloe/freedom

American evangalists broadcast into the mid east in Arabic, not so much on
SW but on satellite TV. I'm sure it makes some in the State Department
squirm.

The US isn't an ideal location for a SW broadcaster to either the Tibet or
the mid east, but I doubt much would be done to stop transmissions,
nowadays.

Frank Dresser

--


Telamon
Ventura, California

I think there are many people using them for information and news but
not so much for entertainment. The entertainment factor may be making
the difference in which SW does not show up in the surveys.

--

What makes you think that using radio for news and information instead of
for entertainment would lessen the extent to which shortwave listener would
be reflected in survey results? It wouldn't make any difference. Surveys
either measure listening coincidentally (as in "What are you listening to
right now?") or through recall via diary or interview (as in "Write down
what you listened to today or tell us what you listened to today"). There
is no reason why results would be skewed by program content. Shortwave
listening is essentially zip in developed countries and just about zip in
impoverished countries (as a percentage of radio listeners who _ever_ listen
to shortwave, that is....

(In audience research work, the term "lots" as in "lots" of shortwave radios
are sold or "lots" of people get their news, etc., doesn't cut it
statistically). Shortwave is a technology the time for which has come and
gone in terms of being of any serious utility. And it "disappears" just a
little bit more day by day. And _that_ is not surprising.

Don Forsling

"David Eduardo" wrote in message om...
"RedOctober90" wrote in message
om...
"http://CBC.am/" wrote in message
...
Domestic SW broadcasting in the US is illegal!

The law has been on the books since the 1970s.

I don't see a problem with domestic SW. I proudly support WBCQ which
promotes freedom of speech.

How? Are you not free to speak today? (The Constitution only guarantees that
the government will not restrict that freedom, not that they will give you a
freee soap box.)

The liberals hate WBCQ because of the high conservative political
shows. You don't have people "telling it exactly like it is" on AM or
FM, mostly because it's run by Clear Channel and they focus on
demographics and image. They would never have any show on clear
channel that focued on true conservative and constitutional issues.
Mostly because the issue of racism comes about, clear channel is
scared to hell of being called racist, even if the truth is "racist"

This is where shortwave comes in, the main intent of the feds law to
restrict SW in the homeland US is because they fear that there are
those out there that would broadcast propaganda to the states. Hey if
you don't like the content.. you can just turn the radio off. Big
deal, you shouldn't be blocked from listening to that stuff if you
want. Where is the 1st amendment? Of course, proudly the SW signals of
US broadcasters come in well in the homeland. Thank goodness for that.
Keeps me away from the mainstream hollywood orientated media.

All I know is, WBCQ comes in full-scale in Northeastern PA and I
support it fully.

I think this SW restriction was designed
to limit the use of free speech and let big corporations take over the
airwaves.

The restriction came form the 30's, not the 70's. And it was intended to
preserve the intended purpose of the clear channel stations, which was to
serve rural America as well as large cities. When the rule was enacted
originally, the whole USA had around 780 radio staitons.

But this is SW! Most radios you will find in the bargin bin at a
dollar store has AM/FM. It's hard to find SW radios in your basic
Walmart or Target Why would they fear the destruction of the clear
channel stations? Barely anyone I know even knows what SW is. I
couldn't give a crap about Clear Channel and it's AM radio stations,
which broadcast crap ads for "male performance substitute" every
couple of minutes. I focus mostly on content, I want content, that is
why I choose SW over the stations who are mostly for advertising,
whose talk radio hosts are complete jokes and can't say what is the
truth.

If they started to fine some of the show hosts on WBCQ that
to me would be an attack on the freedom of speech that the
constitution supposely protects.

Show hosts, announcers and disk jockeys are not fined by the FCC.

Fining the station which might limit some of the station activitises.

Anyway there still is pirate radio, I am for anyone to go out and buy
a transmitter and broadcast on clear unused frequencies in the SW
band, where making extra printed paper money isn't the goal. And no I
am not against people's ambitions to make money, make as much of it as
you want. But please don't restrict my access to stations like WBCQ.

"Don Forsling" wrote in message
...


What makes you think that using radio for news and information instead of
for entertainment would lessen the extent to which shortwave listener
would
be reflected in survey results? It wouldn't make any difference. Surveys
either measure listening coincidentally (as in "What are you listening to
right now?") or through recall via diary or interview (as in "Write down
what you listened to today or tell us what you listened to today"). There
is no reason why results would be skewed by program content. Shortwave
listening is essentially zip in developed countries and just about zip in
impoverished countries (as a percentage of radio listeners who _ever_
listen
to shortwave, that is....

(In audience research work, the term "lots" as in "lots" of shortwave
radios
are sold or "lots" of people get their news, etc., doesn't cut it
statistically). Shortwave is a technology the time for which has come and
gone in terms of being of any serious utility. And it "disappears" just a
little bit more day by day. And _that_ is not surprising.

Don Forsling



No doubt the surveys have missed some. I don't think there's any guarantee
anybody from the paranoid SWL fringe will actually reveal his listening
habits to an outsider.

"Too busy for radio, I've been watching e-bay auctions.", "I've been
studying the Talmud!", "I've been analyzing movies Mel Gibson hasn't
released yet!", "I've been keeping my eyes on Planet X!", "I've been
lusting after the Olsen twins!!"

At least that's what I tell those lackeys of the New World Order every time
they manage to squeeze an inquiry into the Barricade of Doom.

Frank Dresser

In article ,
"Don Forsling" wrote:

--


Telamon
Ventura, California

I think there are many people using them for information and news but
not so much for entertainment. The entertainment factor may be making
the difference in which SW does not show up in the surveys.

--

What makes you think that using radio for news and information instead of
for entertainment would lessen the extent to which shortwave listener would
be reflected in survey results? It wouldn't make any difference. Surveys
either measure listening coincidentally (as in "What are you listening to
right now?") or through recall via diary or interview (as in "Write down
what you listened to today or tell us what you listened to today"). There
is no reason why results would be skewed by program content. Shortwave
listening is essentially zip in developed countries and just about zip in
impoverished countries (as a percentage of radio listeners who _ever_ listen
to shortwave, that is....

I have been surveyed by radio stations and every time all the questions
were entertainment related with no mention of news, weather, talk, and
commentary.

(In audience research work, the term "lots" as in "lots" of shortwave radios
are sold or "lots" of people get their news, etc., doesn't cut it
statistically). Shortwave is a technology the time for which has come and
gone in terms of being of any serious utility. And it "disappears" just a
little bit more day by day. And _that_ is not surprising.

A lot of money has been spent on SW radios over the years. People must
be doing something with them.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California