"George Blomfield" wrote in message
news:400d059a.6116314@news-server...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:14:36 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:34:41 -0800, "CW"
wrote:


"George Blomfield" wrote in message
news:4009e0e0.2462200@news-server...

Open the Winradio, and marvel at the beautiful subminiature components
surface-mounted on both sides of several densely-packed multilayer
boards, meticulous craftsmanship, and not a single adjustable
component in sight.

Yes, most disposables are made that way.
Very astute observation. :-)


Anyone with any electronics experience would know that components have
tolerances. The variation between components will mean that a non adjustable
tuned circuit may very well not be tuned as well as it could be. Making
things non adjustable is cheaper but the trade off is that you have to
except less than optimum performance.

CW schrieb:


Anyone with any electronics experience would know that components have
tolerances. The variation between components will mean that a non adjustable
tuned circuit may very well not be tuned as well as it could be. Making
things non adjustable is cheaper but the trade off is that you have to
except less than optimum performance.


Who says that this thing ist not adjustable?
I have a PCR1000 wich is a nice toy to play with. This thing has not a
single adjustment screw inside. It is all done by programming switches
with external software via RS232 interface. All you need ist just the
right high frequency signal injector device for different signal levels
signal forms and modulation. Also an oscilloscope to check the audio
output waveform and level.

odo

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:30:25 -0800, "CW"
wrote:


"George Blomfield" wrote in message
news:400d059a.6116314@news-server...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:14:36 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:34:41 -0800, "CW"
wrote:


"George Blomfield" wrote in message
news:4009e0e0.2462200@news-server...

Open the Winradio, and marvel at the beautiful subminiature components
surface-mounted on both sides of several densely-packed multilayer
boards, meticulous craftsmanship, and not a single adjustable
component in sight.

Yes, most disposables are made that way.
Very astute observation. :-)


Anyone with any electronics experience would know that components have
tolerances. The variation between components will mean that a non adjustable
tuned circuit may very well not be tuned as well as it could be. Making
things non adjustable is cheaper but the trade off is that you have to
except less than optimum performance.



I guess you have not heard of software-defined radios. This has been a
buzzword in military and other professional radio communications for a
few years.

The G303i is the first such software-defined radio for the consumer
market. The end result (apart from other significant benefits) is
precisely what you are talking about: elimination of influence of
component tolerances.

Don't think for a second that they simply replaced a tunable coil with
an untunable one in a similar circuit; of course this would not work.
This receiver has a totally different architecture, where tunable IF
transformers are simply not used anymore.

And the result?

1. The lowest phase noise and the best MDS in any consumer shortwave
radio available; and still with a very respectable dynamic range.

2. Precisely calibrated S-meter (now how would this be possible if
they had component tolerances problem?)

.... and there is more, but I am running out of time right now, check
the Web site: http://www.winradio.com/home/g303i.htm

George

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:34:00 GMT, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:17:53 GMT, (George Blomfield)
wrote:

The Winradio has never been professionally reviewed. The IP3 sucks...
as do the rest of the published specs. Way way overpriced.

Not sure what you mean by "never professionally reviewed". Read the
current (2004) issue of WRTH. Is this professional enough? And the
other numerous reviews including one in Short Wave Magazine (also
available on http://www.winradio.com/home/g303i-reviews.htm)?

Problem is that no one makes a decent affordable SW receiver.
It isn't rocket science and this is 2004 isn't it?

I'd suggest that you look at Winradio G303i first, and *then* talk
about rocket science in 2004... ;-) Nothing comes close. Try it for
yourself, you'll see... :-)

George

I would love to see a ARRL tech review of the WR-G303i.
A review of the 1150i wasn't impressive.
I read the reviews on the Winradio wesbite- not impressed.

Where have we heard "the am synch loses lock" before? :-)

You picked up the only potentially negative point amongst a myriad of
overwhelmingly positive ones. Well please yourself.

But if you owned a G303 as I do, you would know that the AM
demodulator is so good, that there is no need for a synchronous one
anyway. I even wonder why Winradio bothered. You are better off simply
using LSB or USB if one of the side bands or the carrier are damaged.

LSB and USB are always tuned spot-on with the G303, so when you are
tuned to an AM station, switching to LSB or USB does not produce any
of the familiar beat frequency or distortion you would normally expect
to hear on other radios. You simply hear only the selected sideband
with perfect and equivalent audio quality. Now tell me with which of
your receivers you can do that (without the need to adjust the tuning
or the BFO, and without a perceptible difference in audio when you
toggle between LSB and USB).

And with which of your receivers you can also adjust the LSB or USB
filter bandwiths, continuously from 1 Hz to 15 kHz?

And with which of your receivers you can actually *see* the signal on
a calibrated real-time spectrum analyzer (with the filter bandwidth
shown superimposed) to see what is going on on the band?

But I guess you are still not impressed. Well, I surely am... ;-)

George

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:53:29 GMT, (George Blomfield)
wrote:

Where have we heard "the am synch loses lock" before? :-)

You picked up the only potentially negative point amongst a myriad of
overwhelmingly positive ones. Well please yourself.

But if you owned a G303 as I do, you would know that the AM
demodulator is so good, that there is no need for a synchronous one
anyway. I even wonder why Winradio bothered. You are better off simply
using LSB or USB if one of the side bands or the carrier are damaged.

I hear a bunch of Icom R75 owners out there chuckling.

LSB and USB are always tuned spot-on with the G303, so when you are
tuned to an AM station, switching to LSB or USB does not produce any
of the familiar beat frequency or distortion you would normally expect
to hear on other radios. You simply hear only the selected sideband
with perfect and equivalent audio quality. Now tell me with which of
your receivers you can do that (without the need to adjust the tuning
or the BFO, and without a perceptible difference in audio when you
toggle between LSB and USB).

Caught this on the Yahoo Winradio group-
--------
WinRadio has just posted a new version of the G303i operating
software. You can now do a frequency calibration for the
radio by tweaking the reference frequency parameter
in the wrg3.ini file.

I successfully used this parameter to eliminate the
small frequency error (5 Hz at 10 Mhz) of my G303i.
---------------------

OH,,, gee... it's called "calibration". :-)

The key though is this- no way would I ever want a receiver stuck
inside the noisiest possible environment- a computer!

And with which of your receivers you can also adjust the LSB or USB
filter bandwiths, continuously from 1 Hz to 15 kHz?

Who would want a 15khz filter for SSB?

But I guess you are still not impressed. Well, I surely am... ;-)

George

I dunno George, you sound like a Winradio dealer. :-)

It may be be some of their more expensive external receivers that
go to 4ghz might have some merit but I'd have to see the real specs
and a real review (and those versions cost a bloody fortune.)

Usually, if a receiver is that "hot" we'd have seen real reviews
and everyone would hear how wonderful it is.

I repeat- no one makes a decent affordable receiver that
could be considered state of the art. Not even the TT RX-340
at almost 4 grand. (Never could understand why the RX-340
costs more than their Orion- with 2 rcvrs and a xmtr and much
more in one box!) Their RX-350 is an "image" dog. Never
tried the RX-320 and doubt I ever will.

I keep looking though....

Cheers!

George Blomfield schrieb:
....

The G303i is the first such software-defined radio for the consumer
market.

....the ICOM IC-PCR1000 is on the market for several years now...

odo

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:05:03 GMT, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:53:29 GMT, (George Blomfield)
wrote:

Where have we heard "the am synch loses lock" before? :-)

You picked up the only potentially negative point amongst a myriad of
overwhelmingly positive ones. Well please yourself.

But if you owned a G303 as I do, you would know that the AM
demodulator is so good, that there is no need for a synchronous one
anyway. I even wonder why Winradio bothered. You are better off simply
using LSB or USB if one of the side bands or the carrier are damaged.

I hear a bunch of Icom R75 owners out there chuckling.

Why? Problems with Icom R75, as serious as they may be, are totally
irrelevant to this discussion.

LSB and USB are always tuned spot-on with the G303, so when you are
tuned to an AM station, switching to LSB or USB does not produce any
of the familiar beat frequency or distortion you would normally expect
to hear on other radios. You simply hear only the selected sideband
with perfect and equivalent audio quality. Now tell me with which of
your receivers you can do that (without the need to adjust the tuning
or the BFO, and without a perceptible difference in audio when you
toggle between LSB and USB).

Caught this on the Yahoo Winradio group-
--------
WinRadio has just posted a new version of the G303i operating
software. You can now do a frequency calibration for the
radio by tweaking the reference frequency parameter
in the wrg3.ini file.

I successfully used this parameter to eliminate the
small frequency error (5 Hz at 10 Mhz) of my G303i.
---------------------
OH,,, gee... it's called "calibration". :-)

Ohmigod, are you kidding? This guy's radio was out *five* Hz at 10 MHz
on a $500 receiver, and you think this is bad? This is 0.5 ppm you are
sneereing at, for Chrissake!

Show me another $500 receiver with that sort of frequency error.
Plus, being able to so easily calibrate it to an even better accuracy.

This is surely a powerful advertisement *for* Winradio, not against
it. You don't often get 0.5 ppm with a receiver costing ten times that
much...

The key though is this- no way would I ever want a receiver stuck
inside the noisiest possible environment- a computer!

If it works (and it does), then I surely would.

Besides, this is an old, tired argument. Read the review in Short Wave
Magazine: "Setting a new standard of cleanliness in receivers". (Note
that this also includes conventional radios which are not used inside
a computer.)

I can surely attest to that: Not a single birdie down to the -138dBm
(or so) noise floor, throughout the entire frequency range 9kHz to
30MHz, and sensitivity better than any receiver I have ever worked
with in my 30 year long professional and amateur career. Despite as
you say, the receiver is stuck inside the "noisiest possible
environment". How they manage to do this, frankly I don't know, but
they do.

And with which of your receivers you can also adjust the LSB or USB
filter bandwiths, continuously from 1 Hz to 15 kHz?

Who would want a 15khz filter for SSB?

Who would *not* want continuously adjustable IF bandwidth from 1 Hz to
15 kHz in 1 Hz steps for all modulation modes? You don't have to go
over 3 kHz for SSB of course.... ;-)

But I guess you are still not impressed. Well, I surely am... ;-)

George

I dunno George, you sound like a Winradio dealer. :-)

To me you sound like a desperate TenTec dealer trying to knock down
competition at all costs... ;-)

I own the product, so perhaps I do sound rather passionate about it.
But not without good reasons. I would certainly agree with any
reality-founded objective criticism, but I have not seen any of it
here. Of course there are negative points, and I can surely think of a
few, but even if I take those into consideration, this product simply
shines.

It may be be some of their more expensive external receivers that
go to 4ghz might have some merit but I'd have to see the real specs
and a real review (and those versions cost a bloody fortune.)

Usually, if a receiver is that "hot" we'd have seen real reviews

And indeed we have: There are real reviews in WRTH and Short Wave
Magazine and more. John Wilson of SWM is about as professional and
authoritative reviewer as you can possibly get. And so is WRTH.

and everyone would hear how wonderful it is.

It is wonderful. Can you hear me now? ;-)

I repeat- no one makes a decent affordable receiver that
could be considered state of the art.

Except Winradio... ;-)

Not even the TT RX-340
at almost 4 grand. (Never could understand why the RX-340
costs more than their Orion- with 2 rcvrs and a xmtr and much
more in one box!) Their RX-350 is an "image" dog. Never
tried the RX-320 and doubt I ever will.
I keep looking though....

Start he http://www.winradio.com/home/g303i.htm ;-)

George

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:15:41 +0100, Volker Tonn
wrote:



George Blomfield schrieb:
...

The G303i is the first such software-defined radio for the consumer
market.

...the ICOM IC-PCR1000 is on the market for several years now...

odo


True, and the Winradio WR-1000 even earlier, but these are both
conventional architecture (although PC-controlled) radios. Proper
software-defined radio is such where the entire last IF and
demodulator stage are executed in software (i.e. the signal is sampled
at the last IF frequency).

George

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:23:56 GMT, (George Blomfield)
wrote:


I dunno George, you sound like a Winradio dealer. :-)

To me you sound like a desperate TenTec dealer trying to knock down
competition at all costs... ;-)

Oh that hurts-

and everyone would hear how wonderful it is.

It is wonderful. Can you hear me now? ;-)

I repeat- no one makes a decent affordable receiver that
could be considered state of the art.

Except Winradio... ;-)

OK George, tell you what- send me one and if it's everything
you claim its cracked up to be... no spurs, clean as a whistle
sitting inside my computer, no overload using a normal antenna,
super duper beats anything in sight- and I'll buy it.

:-)

George Blomfield schrieb:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:15:41 +0100, Volker Tonn
wrote:



George Blomfield schrieb:
...

The G303i is the first such software-defined radio for the consumer
market.

...the ICOM IC-PCR1000 is on the market for several years now...

odo



True, and the Winradio WR-1000 even earlier, but these are both
conventional architecture (although PC-controlled) radios.

I don't know the WR-100 from inside.
But _all_ alignment of the PCR1000 is done by software.


Proper software-defined radio is such where the entire last IF and
demodulator stage are executed in software (i.e. the signal is sampled
at the last IF frequency).

Do you really mean a DSP as or in the final IF-stage makes the
difference for a software defined radio? All other things is electronic
switchings controlled by software.

odo