tommyknocker wrote:

WShoots1 wrote:

Frank D: One example was Crosley's transmitter in Bethany, Ohio.

The only Ohio station listed in my booklet is W8XAL in Cincinatti, on daily
from 5-6 am PST on 6.06 MHz, and from 6-9 pm, same freq. Interestingly, during
the 7-9 pm slot, W3XAU in Philly was also on the same freq.

Note that these are *amateur* callsigns, not standard (commercial) four
letter signs. These stations were likely legally considered on the same
level as hams with fleawatt tx's because there was no provisions in
federal law to license commercial stations on SW-the "domestic
broadcasting" ban that's been talked about so much in this group.

I think you are incorrect about the above statement!




W6XKG was on 24/7 on 25.95 MHz. From what I can tell, no station in the world
shifted frequencies. I guess they were one transmitter, one antenna (and one
crystal G) stations back then.

Over the years I've seen articles on old SW transmitters, as well as
looked at some tube era ham level SW tx's. It seems that ALL SW tx's
were crystal controlled until the 1960s, when transistorization made
tunable transmitters possible. A lot of these Third World stations that
stay on the same freq for decades, and whose transmitters can be tracked
from owner to owner by freq usage, are one crystal setups. I suspect
that the crystals in these tx's were (and are) sort of hardwired in like
the early tube computers had one "program" that could only be changed by
rewiring.

Frank Dresser wrote:


"WShoots1" wrote in message
...


W6XKG was on 24/7 on 25.95 MHz. From what I can tell, no station in
the world
shifted frequencies. I guess they were one transmitter, one antenna
(and one
crystal G) stations back then.

That's probably one of the early experimental high fidelity stations.
There were a few stations that experimented with high fidelity wideband
AM. Many of them later switched to FM. The band is still in use for
link transmissions.

I've never heard of that. I know about the early 42-50 Mhz FM band that
Sarnoff persuaded the FCC to kill during WW2, but I don't know about
hifi AM.

"tommyknocker" wrote in message
...

Note that these are *amateur* callsigns, not standard (commercial)
four
letter signs. These stations were likely legally considered on the
same
level as hams with fleawatt tx's because there was no provisions in
federal law to license commercial stations on SW-the "domestic
broadcasting" ban that's been talked about so much in this group.

It's my understanding the old callsigns with a 'X' in them were
experimental broadcasters. The early TV and FM stations also had them.



Over the years I've seen articles on old SW transmitters, as well as
looked at some tube era ham level SW tx's. It seems that ALL SW tx's
were crystal controlled until the 1960s, when transistorization made
tunable transmitters possible. A lot of these Third World stations
that
stay on the same freq for decades, and whose transmitters can be
tracked
from owner to owner by freq usage, are one crystal setups. I suspect
that the crystals in these tx's were (and are) sort of hardwired in
like
the early tube computers had one "program" that could only be changed
by
rewiring.


I'm sure the crystals were socketed. The early crystal circuits usually
had a reletively high power crystal oscillator, in order to reduce the
number of stages. Cracking the crystal was a risk. Also, the crystal
may drift in frequency after it was manufactured.

Putting the crystal in a socket and having at least one spare was
prudent.

Here's more than most anyone wants to know about the early crystal
industry:

http://www.corningfrequency.com/library/vbottom.html

Frank Dresser

"tommyknocker" wrote in message
...

I've never heard of that. I know about the early 42-50 Mhz FM band
that
Sarnoff persuaded the FCC to kill during WW2, but I don't know about
hifi AM.


Here's the story on one Apex station:

http://www.michiguide.com/history/fmhistory/prehist.pdf

Frank Dresser

Many thanks, Frank D., for that link to FM history. Very interesting.

As implied in the article, cranking up the power is easy for FM. All that is
needed is a Class C rf amp. No linear required.

It reminds me... Back in 1947, I visited the then new FM station in Ontario,
CA. Because no hi-fi audio transformers were available, the Chief built the
entire audio system using RC coupling.

Bill, K5BY
ex-W6BMM

"WShoots1" wrote in message
...
Many thanks, Frank D., for that link to FM history. Very interesting.

As implied in the article, cranking up the power is easy for FM. All
that is
needed is a Class C rf amp. No linear required.

It reminds me... Back in 1947, I visited the then new FM station in
Ontario,
CA. Because no hi-fi audio transformers were available, the Chief
built the
entire audio system using RC coupling.

Bill, K5BY
ex-W6BMM

You're Welcome! If you're interested in radio history, there's alot
posted on the internet. I think you may have come across these sites,
but, if not, here's a couple of links:

http://earlyradiohistory.us/

http://members.aol.com/jeff560/jeff.html

And this is the Michigan radio site:

http://www.michiguide.com/history/index.html

Frank Dresser

Many thanks for the radio history sites, Frank D. I had a lot of friends in the
BC business back when I was a teen and young adult. In the late 1950s, I was CE
for a couple years at a 1 stick, 1 kW day AM station in Arkansas.

But I always marveled at the older stuff. I'd had the pleasure of working on
some antique radios, TV, and radars. The radios were the most fun. One time I
even got to key a rotary spark gap transmitter.

Back when I belonged to the QCWA, I attended a national convention held in a
Houston hotel. When I keyed the rotary that was on display, I noticed it got
into the PA system. So I sent a welcome to the out-of-towners -- and I got a
round of applause. G

The requirement, clear up until when CW was no longer required, that shipboard
transmitters have the capability to modulate their signals with 500 Hertz, when
on 500 kHz, was an artifact of when it was needed:

1 - When phasing over from spark gap and not every vessel yet had a receiver
with regen or BFO.

2 - So, during WWII, folks at home could copy an SOS on their home receivers.
(I assume but don't recall that the low end of the receiver's BC band went down
to include 500 KC -- uh -- kHz.)

But that MCW did punch through static!

For what it's worth. The movie camera and projector I had forty years ago was
not made by Packard-Bell, as I had written before. They were made by Bell &
Howell (Bellow & Howl G).

73,
Bill, K5BY

"tommyknocker" wrote in message
...


I've never heard of that. I know about the early 42-50 Mhz FM band
that
Sarnoff persuaded the FCC to kill during WW2, but I don't know about
hifi AM.


Actually, Sarnoff was on both sides of the FM band change. NBC, as well
as all the other non FM broadcast networks, wanted FM moved to 88 - 108.

RCA wanted the FM band kept where it was and Harold Beveridge presented
RCA's case to the FCC.

Frank Dresser

"WShoots1" wrote in message
...
Many thanks for the radio history sites, Frank D. I had a lot of
friends in the
BC business back when I was a teen and young adult. In the late 1950s,
I was CE
for a couple years at a 1 stick, 1 kW day AM station in Arkansas.

Here's another one about Hi Fi AM, this time on the broadcast band:

http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/HiFi.html

But I always marveled at the older stuff. I'd had the pleasure of
working on
some antique radios, TV, and radars. The radios were the most fun. One
time I
even got to key a rotary spark gap transmitter.

I like to think about the "first timers", that a radio or TV which was
the first radio or TV that people saw. Another collector showed me his
Westinghouse crystal radio from the early 20s. He also had a hybrid
tube crystal radio which used the tube as an RF amp and a galena crystal
as a detector. He said radios like that were made for only a couple of
years. Then came the common three dialers.

I had the chance to work with an old mirror lid TV while I was still in
high school. I couldn't fix it, but I'm sure it would be easy enough
for me today as long as the CRT was good. The CRT screen was about 8
inches across and it was about 30 inches long! I was offered the set if
I could haul it out, but I didn't have a good place to put it. I saw a
similiar one in working condition sell on e-bay for about $10,000.


Back when I belonged to the QCWA, I attended a national convention
held in a
Houston hotel. When I keyed the rotary that was on display, I noticed
it got
into the PA system. So I sent a welcome to the out-of-towners -- and I
got a
round of applause. G

The requirement, clear up until when CW was no longer required, that
shipboard
transmitters have the capability to modulate their signals with 500
Hertz, when
on 500 kHz, was an artifact of when it was needed:

1 - When phasing over from spark gap and not every vessel yet had a
receiver
with regen or BFO.

2 - So, during WWII, folks at home could copy an SOS on their home
receivers.
(I assume but don't recall that the low end of the receiver's BC band
went down
to include 500 KC -- uh -- kHz.)

I haven't seen a radio which extended the standard broadcast band down
to 500 kc. But several of the radios of that era did go to 1700kc, in
order to tune in the old "calling all cars" police band. They're now
ready for the newer AM broadcast extended band!


But that MCW did punch through static!

It just might punch through to a wide 455 kc IF, too!


For what it's worth. The movie camera and projector I had forty years
ago was
not made by Packard-Bell, as I had written before. They were made by
Bell &
Howell (Bellow & Howl G).

73,
Bill, K5BY