"B Banton" wrote in message
...

Pretty soon we'll have radios from China. Same idiot conservatives
that are buying them are screaming about NAFTA. Oh my my...!!


It's our rich industrialists in collaboration with our governments (US,
Canada, and others) that have been pushing free, globalized free trade over
the objections of the public for years now, and they were all falling over
each other trying to get an advantage over every other western country in
trade with China. I always thought it was a bad idea, but since that's what
"they" want, I'll be darned if I won't take advantage of it now to get more
for less, now that China is producing good stuff at ridiculously-low prices.
It's a vicious cycle.

Pierre

Yes but people in poorer countries can now afford things like radios
and bicycles because they're made in china. $20 vs. $100 US is a big
difference in affordability when you make two dollars US a day. I
saw some fairly decent $30 bicycles in a carrefour market in Shanghai.
Because they're $30 and not $100 a lot more people in Asia, Africa,
Latin America can afford one. That people in countries like the US
are buying it too is to our advantage. If we didn't they could still
sell it there and we'd pay many more times for the same utility.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:20:29 -0500, "Pierre L"
wrote:


"B Banton" wrote in message
.. .

Pretty soon we'll have radios from China. Same idiot conservatives
that are buying them are screaming about NAFTA. Oh my my...!!


It's our rich industrialists in collaboration with our governments (US,
Canada, and others) that have been pushing free, globalized free trade over
the objections of the public for years now, and they were all falling over
each other trying to get an advantage over every other western country in
trade with China. I always thought it was a bad idea, but since that's what
"they" want, I'll be darned if I won't take advantage of it now to get more
for less, now that China is producing good stuff at ridiculously-low prices.
It's a vicious cycle.

Pierre

Altawaowr wrote:

Yes but people in poorer countries can now afford things like radios
and bicycles because they're made in china. $20 vs. $100 US is a big
difference in affordability when you make two dollars US a day. I
saw some fairly decent $30 bicycles in a carrefour market in Shanghai.
Because they're $30 and not $100 a lot more people in Asia, Africa,
Latin America can afford one. That people in countries like the US
are buying it too is to our advantage. If we didn't they could still
sell it there and we'd pay many more times for the same utility.

Most Chinese bicycles are one gear, just two sprocket wheels and a
chain. I never did get the point of having 21 different gear settings on
a bike that will be used only in a city (unless your city is San
Francisco ). I guess American bike makers do that to extract more
money from customers. Also, I should note that before the era of
transistors most of the world's people couldn't afford a radio, much
less a TV or a satellite dish. America was an anomaly with a radio in
every room-average people in Nazi Germany or Japan could barely afford
one tabletop set built worse than the average American table radio.
Using transistors eliminated the need for the craftsman skills that went
into building tube models, so the radios could be produced in Asia
(first Japan, then China) for much less than in America. This trend has
hit all industry in America-for example, once a way to standardize beef
production was invented, the skilled butchers at the slaughterhouses
were fired and the jobs given to unskilled Mexicans working for much
less. The end result is that skilled, highly paid manual laborers have
been thrown out of work, reducing the size of the middle class.


On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:20:29 -0500, "Pierre L"
wrote:


"B Banton" wrote in message
.. .

Pretty soon we'll have radios from China. Same idiot conservatives
that are buying them are screaming about NAFTA. Oh my my...!!


It's our rich industrialists in collaboration with our governments (US,
Canada, and others) that have been pushing free, globalized free trade over
the objections of the public for years now, and they were all falling over
each other trying to get an advantage over every other western country in
trade with China. I always thought it was a bad idea, but since that's what
"they" want, I'll be darned if I won't take advantage of it now to get more
for less, now that China is producing good stuff at ridiculously-low prices.
It's a vicious cycle.

Pierre

Just changing the topic for the hell of it.

the skilled butchers at the slaughterhouses
were fired and the jobs given to unskilled Mexicans working for much
less. The end result is that skilled, highly paid manual laborers have
been thrown out of work, reducing the size of the middle class.

- Please note:
- This " firing of skilled workers" also reduces the size of the US pool of "
taxable Workers" needed to support "The Government"; Sholls, Hospitals,
Street repair, Police, Firemen, etc.
And with
" The Miracle Of Offshoring"
- ANYONE sitting at a desk can have his / Her job " Offshored "
- Leaving us with an army of unemployed Professionals;
And little else..

"Soames123" wrote in message
news:20040228203030.20529.00000680@mb- - Please note:
- This " firing of skilled workers" also reduces the size of the US pool
of "
taxable Workers" needed to support "The Government"; Sholls, Hospitals,
Street repair, Police, Firemen, etc.
And with
" The Miracle Of Offshoring"
- ANYONE sitting at a desk can have his / Her job " Offshored "
- Leaving us with an army of unemployed Professionals;
And little else..

Don't think that it is restricted to people doing desk jobs. As little as
five or six years ago, if a skilled machinist were looking for a new job, he
would have one within hours. Manufacturing in this country has declined to
the point now that he may be out of work for months. You are quite correct
that it is undercutting the tax base and as the middle class, as a whole,
support the tax base, we are going to be in a real bind shortly. When you
produce nothing and buy everything, it is like living on a credit card.
Bankruptcy is inevitable.

Well actually, most of the flashy multi-geared road and mountain bicycles
you see out there today have frames made in China, even though they are not
Chinese makes. This has been going on since the early 1990's. As for the
rationale behind having multiple gears, if you ride any further than your
corner convenience store, it quickly becomes apparent - although I agree
that 21 is more then plenty. A headwind is much the same as a hill, and when
you're riding a bike for any distance, you quickly find out that things
aren't as flat as they appear to be in a car. The purpose of multiple speeds
isn't only to be able to ride uphill, but also to be able to choose gears so
that the rider can maintain the same cadence, no matter what the terrain or
wind.

The thing with cheaper third world production is that, a great many
Americans and other westerners wouldn't today be able to afford all the
electronic and other consumer goods they buy, including the computers used
to read this newsgroup, fancy digital cameras, mobile phones, etc. What's
the alternative? Tariffs? Who will buy the more expensive goods then?
There's only so much money around to be spent.

Pierre


"tommyknocker" wrote in message
Most Chinese bicycles are one gear, just two sprocket wheels and a
chain. I never did get the point of having 21 different gear settings on
a bike that will be used only in a city (unless your city is San
Francisco ). I guess American bike makers do that to extract more
money from customers. Also, I should note that before the era of
transistors most of the world's people couldn't afford a radio, much
less a TV or a satellite dish. America was an anomaly with a radio in
every room-average people in Nazi Germany or Japan could barely afford
one tabletop set built worse than the average American table radio.
Using transistors eliminated the need for the craftsman skills that went
into building tube models, so the radios could be produced in Asia
(first Japan, then China) for much less than in America. This trend has
hit all industry in America-for example, once a way to standardize beef
production was invented, the skilled butchers at the slaughterhouses
were fired and the jobs given to unskilled Mexicans working for much
less. The end result is that skilled, highly paid manual laborers have
been thrown out of work, reducing the size of the middle class.

"tommyknocker" wrote in message
...
Using transistors eliminated the need for the craftsman skills that went
into building tube models, so the radios could be produced in Asia
(first Japan, then China) for much less than in America.

Not even close.


This trend has
hit all industry in America-for example, once a way to standardize beef
production was invented, the skilled butchers at the slaughterhouses
were fired and the jobs given to unskilled Mexicans working for much
less. The end result is that skilled, highly paid manual laborers have
been thrown out of work, reducing the size of the middle class.

You are quite correct about your conclusions but your examples just don't
make it.