Frank, it's true that this is what the Boston
Globe op-ed piece says, but it's based on a total
misunderstanding of the analysis that (AFAIK) started
this whole red-blue thing - David Brooks' article
in 2001 in the Atlantic. Brooks is a conservative
but he characterized the blue electorate as more
educated, and by no small margin. It's well-known
that I am not a confrontational polarized kind of guy,
but it's unfair that conservatives can get away with
characterizing liberals as effete over-educated slobs,
and as undereducated boobs, glued to Jerry Springer.

Oz


Frank Dresser wrote:

The article doesn't say the conservative audience is less educated than the
liberal audience. Check it out:

"But take another look at that map. The death knell you see lurking is
audience demographics (i.e. it's the economy, stupid). Red (Bush) vs. Blue
(Gore) is a distinction of ideology, but it is also, as frankly we know,
essentially a division of social class, race, and income. The red audience
is largely suburban, college educated, professional, middle class; the blue
(potential) audience more urban, less well educated, lower income. And this
difference will matter infinitely more in the radio booth than the voting
booth."

In fact, the article says about the audiences:

(Bush), college educated

(Gore), less well educated

Perhaps the author might have been clearer if he had used Blue for True Blue
Americans and Red for Commie Simp Pinkos.



Can't argue with that.

Leonard



Frank Dresser

Larry Ozarow wrote:

characterizing liberals as effete over-educated slobs,
^^^^^^
Oops, I meant "snobs" not "slobs." Must be one of them
Freudian slips.

and as undereducated boobs, glued to Jerry Springer.

Oz

"Larry Ozarow" wrote in message
...
Frank, it's true that this is what the Boston
Globe op-ed piece says, but it's based on a total
misunderstanding of the analysis that (AFAIK) started
this whole red-blue thing - David Brooks' article
in 2001 in the Atlantic. Brooks is a conservative
but he characterized the blue electorate as more
educated, and by no small margin. It's well-known
that I am not a confrontational polarized kind of guy,
but it's unfair that conservatives can get away with
characterizing liberals as effete over-educated slobs,
and as undereducated boobs, glued to Jerry Springer.

Oz



Any generalization about liberals, or any group, will probably be unfair.
But I don't think it's unreasonable to counter one unfair generalization
with another unfair generalization in an discussion. Everyone gets a fair
chance to clarify their points.

And as far as the analysis of education and politics -- I don't know how
much can be made of it. It might be true that liberals(or democrats) have
more formal education than conservatives(or republicans), but so what? My
formal education ended when I dropped out of a junior college trade school.
I'm capable of learning independently, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I
don't consider myself anyone's fool. And I haven't seen any proof that
formal education is immunization from foolishness.

Frank Dresser

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:

"Larry Ozarow" wrote in message
...
Frank, it's true that this is what the Boston
Globe op-ed piece says, but it's based on a total
misunderstanding of the analysis that (AFAIK) started
this whole red-blue thing - David Brooks' article
in 2001 in the Atlantic. Brooks is a conservative
but he characterized the blue electorate as more
educated, and by no small margin. It's well-known
that I am not a confrontational polarized kind of guy,
but it's unfair that conservatives can get away with
characterizing liberals as effete over-educated slobs,
and as undereducated boobs, glued to Jerry Springer.

Oz



Any generalization about liberals, or any group, will probably be unfair.
But I don't think it's unreasonable to counter one unfair generalization
with another unfair generalization in an discussion. Everyone gets a fair
chance to clarify their points.

And as far as the analysis of education and politics -- I don't know how
much can be made of it. It might be true that liberals(or democrats) have
more formal education than conservatives(or republicans), but so what? My
formal education ended when I dropped out of a junior college trade school.
I'm capable of learning independently, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I
don't consider myself anyone's fool. And I haven't seen any proof that
formal education is immunization from foolishness.

Frank Dresser



I'm sure you're no fool. What you may well lack (and if you do you'll
have no way of knowing it) is intellectual and historical context for
today's prevailing ideas. Contextual knowledge help in analyzing and
evaluating ideas. I still remember the wide new panoramas of insight and
understanding that I discovered in college.

Leonard

--
"Everything that rises must converge"
--Flannery O'Connor

"Leonard Martin" wrote in message
...

I'm sure you're no fool. What you may well lack (and if you do you'll
have no way of knowing it) is intellectual and historical context for
today's prevailing ideas. Contextual knowledge help in analyzing and
evaluating ideas. I still remember the wide new panoramas of insight and
understanding that I discovered in college.

Leonard


I find out what I don't know every time I'm challenged and I can't back up
what I say.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:


Any generalization about liberals, or any group, will probably be unfair.
But I don't think it's unreasonable to counter one unfair generalization
with another unfair generalization in an discussion. Everyone gets a fair
chance to clarify their points.

Sure, just to clarify - I was pointing out the the guy who wrote the
op-ed piece in the Globe employed a stereotype about liberals which
was opposite to the stereotype that was used in David Brooks' article,
which introduced the pseudo-scientific blue/red dichotomy that he was
employing. Since Brooks also identifies himself as conservative, this
wasn't a political disagreement, Severin just needed an unflattering
pseudo-fact to support his thesis that liberal radio is bound to fail,
so he made one up. It might fail, but not because the liberals are all
too busy watching Jerry Springer, as he claimed. (Nor because they'll
all be at wine and cheese parties listing to Elliot Carter).


And as far as the analysis of education and politics -- I don't know how
much can be made of it. It might be true that liberals(or democrats) have
more formal education than conservatives(or republicans), but so what? My
formal education ended when I dropped out of a junior college trade school.
I'm capable of learning independently, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I
don't consider myself anyone's fool. And I haven't seen any proof that
formal education is immunization from foolishness.

Frank Dresser



True. I might add that not all liberals are snobs and not all conservatives
are regular guys.

"Larry Ozarow" wrote in message
...


[snip]


True. I might add that not all liberals are snobs and not all
conservatives
are regular guys.


CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the
Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.

Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary