Gene Scott, satellites and MW
 

I posted this message over in rec.radio.amateur.dx, but no one seems to have
any answers for me. It's perhaps a little off-topic, but since most of the
posts in these parts are, it'll fit right in. And at least here I'll get
some sort of response.

Even if it's political.

I'm just going to cut and paste:



I'm new to the hobby, so please bear with me.

I picked up a Gene Scott broadcast last night on MW at 1615 KHz. Here's the
info I found at his website:

http://www.drgenescott.com/swave.htm

THE CARIBBEAN BEACON
Anguilla, British West Indies
24 hours a day - 7 days a week

690 KHz AM

1610 KHz AM

I'm listening in Seattle, and I really don't think that I've DX'd the guy
all the way from the Caribbean. The signal isn't constant; it eventually
faded out just
like SW reception does. So my question is, just how did I hear this
broadcast? Scott uses satellites, but I imagine they're geo-synchronous and
so (I assume) the signal wouldn't fade. Is that true? Is retransmitting of
MW or FM band signals ever even done in the first place? And why did I
receive the signal at 1615 instead of 1610? Did I pick up a repeater of some
sort? I have more questions, but I think that from the ones I've just posed
that everyone can imagine what they are. Thanks in advance for your replies.

FWIW I'm using a Grundig S350, grounded, with a 75' random wire antenna.


And for rec.radio.shortwave, does anybody know of a URL that explains the
process by which SW trasmissions are rebroadcast via satellite? Obviously,
I've got more to learn about this. ;)

Oh, and by the way...it's 0525 UTC and -someone- is back on that frequency
again. (I tried reception during the day, but got nothing.) I haven't yet
heard anything to indicate who it is, but I'm sure it's Scott.

Someone *could* be rebroadcasting a shortwave, satellite or other signal
on a MW transmitter that is not PLL and has drifted a bit.

Some folks think Gene Scott is like R. G. Stair -- HE'S EVERYWHERE! ;-)

There might be other explanations but a cheap rebroadcast is my only
guess. Perhaps someone else will have a better answer.

Al

==================

Honus wrote:

I posted this message over in rec.radio.amateur.dx, but no one seems to have
any answers for me. It's perhaps a little off-topic, but since most of the
posts in these parts are, it'll fit right in. And at least here I'll get
some sort of response.

Even if it's political.

I'm just going to cut and paste:



I'm new to the hobby, so please bear with me.

I picked up a Gene Scott broadcast last night on MW at 1615 KHz. Here's the
info I found at his website:

http://www.drgenescott.com/swave.htm

THE CARIBBEAN BEACON
Anguilla, British West Indies
24 hours a day - 7 days a week

690 KHz AM

1610 KHz AM

I'm listening in Seattle, and I really don't think that I've DX'd the guy
all the way from the Caribbean. The signal isn't constant; it eventually
faded out just
like SW reception does. So my question is, just how did I hear this
broadcast? Scott uses satellites, but I imagine they're geo-synchronous and
so (I assume) the signal wouldn't fade. Is that true? Is retransmitting of
MW or FM band signals ever even done in the first place? And why did I
receive the signal at 1615 instead of 1610? Did I pick up a repeater of some
sort? I have more questions, but I think that from the ones I've just posed
that everyone can imagine what they are. Thanks in advance for your replies.

FWIW I'm using a Grundig S350, grounded, with a 75' random wire antenna.


And for rec.radio.shortwave, does anybody know of a URL that explains the
process by which SW trasmissions are rebroadcast via satellite? Obviously,
I've got more to learn about this. ;)

Oh, and by the way...it's 0525 UTC and -someone- is back on that frequency
again. (I tried reception during the day, but got nothing.) I haven't yet
heard anything to indicate who it is, but I'm sure it's Scott.

"Honus" wrote in message
...

[snip]



I'm new to the hobby, so please bear with me.

I picked up a Gene Scott broadcast last night on MW at 1615 KHz. Here's
the
info I found at his website:

http://www.drgenescott.com/swave.htm

THE CARIBBEAN BEACON
Anguilla, British West Indies
24 hours a day - 7 days a week

690 KHz AM

1610 KHz AM

I'm listening in Seattle, and I really don't think that I've DX'd the guy
all the way from the Caribbean. The signal isn't constant; it eventually
faded out just
like SW reception does. So my question is, just how did I hear this
broadcast?

Looks like a spurious response caused by your oscillator's third harmonic
and the radio's poor RF selectivity.

Assuming an IF frequency of 455 kHz, when the radio is tuned to 1615 the
local oscillator is running at 2070 kHz (1615 + 455).

The third harmonic of 2070 kHz is 6210 kHz.

With an IF of 455 kHz and an oscillator frequency of 6210 kHz, there will be
a response at both 6665 kHz (6210 + 455) and 5755 kHz (6210 - 455).

KAIJ carries Dr. Scott on 5755.

http://www.drgenescott.com/swave.htm



Scott uses satellites, but I imagine they're geo-synchronous and
so (I assume) the signal wouldn't fade. Is that true? Is retransmitting of
MW or FM band signals ever even done in the first place? And why did I
receive the signal at 1615 instead of 1610? Did I pick up a repeater of
some
sort? I have more questions, but I think that from the ones I've just
posed
that everyone can imagine what they are. Thanks in advance for your
replies.


You might try checking your radio's local oscillator output with another
radio. I'll bet it puts out a receivable signal at 6210 kHz as you tune
around 1615 kHz.



FWIW I'm using a Grundig S350, grounded, with a 75' random wire antenna.


And for rec.radio.shortwave, does anybody know of a URL that explains the

process by which SW trasmissions are rebroadcast via satellite? Obviously,
I've got more to learn about this. ;)

Oh, and by the way...it's 0525 UTC and -someone- is back on that frequency
again. (I tried reception during the day, but got nothing.) I haven't yet
heard anything to indicate who it is, but I'm sure it's Scott.



What was he talking about? The Pyramids? Aliens? Demons?

Was he yelling at the hired hands again?

Frank Dresser

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

snip

Looks like a spurious response caused by your oscillator's third harmonic
and the radio's poor RF selectivity.

Assuming an IF frequency of 455 kHz, when the radio is tuned to 1615 the
local oscillator is running at 2070 kHz (1615 + 455).

The third harmonic of 2070 kHz is 6210 kHz.

With an IF of 455 kHz and an oscillator frequency of 6210 kHz, there will
be
a response at both 6665 kHz (6210 + 455) and 5755 kHz (6210 - 455).

KAIJ carries Dr. Scott on 5755.

snip

I just told someone over in rec.radio.amateur.dx that I'm
ready to mail my Grundig back to China with a letter enclosed telling them
where they can send it from there. ;) This whole shortwave/AM DX experience
has been extremely frustrating.

All I want to do is turn on my radio, spin the dial until I find something
interesting, look it up in my "Passport" book and have that be the end of
it. sigh Oh well. I might as well start wishing for world peace. ;)

You might try checking your radio's local oscillator output with another
radio. I'll bet it puts out a receivable signal at 6210 kHz as you tune
around 1615 kHz.

The first part of that went clean over my head. Thanks for trying, though!
g

FWIW I'm using a Grundig S350, grounded, with a 75' random wire antenna.


And for rec.radio.shortwave, does anybody know of a URL that explains
the

process by which SW trasmissions are rebroadcast via satellite?
Obviously,
I've got more to learn about this. ;)

I'm still looking for this one. Part of the fun of this, which I didn't
include in my rant above, is how I'm sharing this with my kids. I've got a
big map on the wall, and we stick pins in the places where broadcasts we've
received originated from. But as you all know, you can't always tell where a
signal is coming from what with relays and satellites, etc. I'll just
persevere. I'm going to enjoy this damned hobby if it kills me.

Oh, and by the way...it's 0525 UTC and -someone- is back on that
frequency
again. (I tried reception during the day, but got nothing.) I haven't
yet
heard anything to indicate who it is, but I'm sure it's Scott.



What was he talking about? The Pyramids? Aliens? Demons?

Was he yelling at the hired hands again?

No, I wasn't that lucky. It's good to have something to look forward to,
though.

Honus wrote:

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

snip

Looks like a spurious response caused by your oscillator's third harmonic
and the radio's poor RF selectivity.

Assuming an IF frequency of 455 kHz, when the radio is tuned to 1615 the
local oscillator is running at 2070 kHz (1615 + 455).

The third harmonic of 2070 kHz is 6210 kHz.

With an IF of 455 kHz and an oscillator frequency of 6210 kHz, there will
be
a response at both 6665 kHz (6210 + 455) and 5755 kHz (6210 - 455).

KAIJ carries Dr. Scott on 5755.

snip

I just told someone over in rec.radio.amateur.dx that I'm
ready to mail my Grundig back to China with a letter enclosed telling them
where they can send it from there. ;) This whole shortwave/AM DX experience
has been extremely frustrating.

All I want to do is turn on my radio, spin the dial until I find something
interesting, look it up in my "Passport" book and have that be the end of
it. sigh Oh well. I might as well start wishing for world peace. ;)

You might try checking your radio's local oscillator output with another
radio. I'll bet it puts out a receivable signal at 6210 kHz as you tune
around 1615 kHz.

The first part of that went clean over my head. Thanks for trying, though!
g

FWIW I'm using a Grundig S350, grounded, with a 75' random wire antenna.


And for rec.radio.shortwave, does anybody know of a URL that explains
the

process by which SW trasmissions are rebroadcast via satellite?
Obviously,
I've got more to learn about this. ;)

I'm still looking for this one. Part of the fun of this, which I didn't
include in my rant above, is how I'm sharing this with my kids. I've got a
big map on the wall, and we stick pins in the places where broadcasts we've
received originated from. But as you all know, you can't always tell where a
signal is coming from what with relays and satellites, etc. I'll just
persevere. I'm going to enjoy this damned hobby if it kills me.

It's a great hobby. Always something going on.

dxAce

I have a S350 and it's my "sitting on the back porch with a beer on a nice
night radio", but it's no DX machine. The S350 is a single conversion radio
and it suffers badly from images as a result.

"Honus" wrote in message
...

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

snip

Looks like a spurious response caused by your oscillator's third
harmonic
and the radio's poor RF selectivity.

Assuming an IF frequency of 455 kHz, when the radio is tuned to 1615 the
local oscillator is running at 2070 kHz (1615 + 455).

The third harmonic of 2070 kHz is 6210 kHz.

With an IF of 455 kHz and an oscillator frequency of 6210 kHz, there
will
be
a response at both 6665 kHz (6210 + 455) and 5755 kHz (6210 - 455).

KAIJ carries Dr. Scott on 5755.

snip

I just told someone over in rec.radio.amateur.dx that I'm
ready to mail my Grundig back to China with a letter enclosed telling them
where they can send it from there. ;) This whole shortwave/AM DX
experience
has been extremely frustrating.

All I want to do is turn on my radio, spin the dial until I find something
interesting, look it up in my "Passport" book and have that be the end of
it. sigh Oh well. I might as well start wishing for world peace. ;)

You might try checking your radio's local oscillator output with another
radio. I'll bet it puts out a receivable signal at 6210 kHz as you tune
around 1615 kHz.

The first part of that went clean over my head. Thanks for trying, though!
g

FWIW I'm using a Grundig S350, grounded, with a 75' random wire
antenna.


And for rec.radio.shortwave, does anybody know of a URL that explains
the

process by which SW trasmissions are rebroadcast via satellite?
Obviously,
I've got more to learn about this. ;)

I'm still looking for this one. Part of the fun of this, which I didn't
include in my rant above, is how I'm sharing this with my kids. I've got a
big map on the wall, and we stick pins in the places where broadcasts
we've
received originated from. But as you all know, you can't always tell where
a
signal is coming from what with relays and satellites, etc. I'll just
persevere. I'm going to enjoy this damned hobby if it kills me.

Oh, and by the way...it's 0525 UTC and -someone- is back on that
frequency
again. (I tried reception during the day, but got nothing.) I haven't
yet
heard anything to indicate who it is, but I'm sure it's Scott.



What was he talking about? The Pyramids? Aliens? Demons?

Was he yelling at the hired hands again?

No, I wasn't that lucky. It's good to have something to look forward to,
though.

Honus wrote:

I'm going to enjoy this damned hobby if it kills me.

Hear, Hear!

There should be a Latin translation of that somewhere...






mike


--
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
/ /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /
/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /
/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/

..let the cat out to reply..

©Densa International
'Think tanks cleaned cheap'

"Honus" wrote in message . ..
I posted this message over in rec.radio.amateur.dx, but no one seems to have
any answers for me. It's perhaps a little off-topic, but since most of the
posts in these parts are, it'll fit right in. And at least here I'll get
some sort of response.

Even if it's political.

I'm just going to cut and paste:



I'm new to the hobby, so please bear with me.

I picked up a Gene Scott broadcast last night on MW at 1615 KHz. Here's the

Anguilla, British West Indies
24 hours a day - 7 days a week

690 KHz AM

1610 KHz
.........snip..................................... .........................

The DX 350 is a sensitive receiver but it doesn't work too well
with a long antenna. The circuits overload and you find images of
stations in all sorts of places where they shouldn't be. The first
thing to do is to disconnect the long wire antenna and see what kind
of reception you get off the whip. Probably the "ghosts" will
disappear. Another thing you can do is to find the switch on the right
hand side of the radio marked ""SW LPF" and switch it on. This will
help remove some of the mysterious signals. If the problem persists
disconnect the ground and see if that helps. You may find that you can
receive most of the stations you want right off the whip. Also, the
"RF Gain" contol should be turned counter-clockwise to the point where
the stations just start to drop off.
If you wnt to get some of the weaker stations, you will have to
experiment and see how much antenna you can use before the
overloading starts. You can wind a few turns around the whip or use
the antenna input at the back. I think 10 or 20 feet of wire would be
plenty. When matched to the right length of antenna, the DX 350
should be fine for your purpose. If you get a bit frustrated at having
to fiddle with the antenna, ride the RF gain, and switch the LPF on
and off, remember that communications receivers that handle a wide
range of signal strengths cost upwards of $1,000.......good
listening.....ken....

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:50:48 GMT, "Honus"
wrote:

And for rec.radio.shortwave, does anybody know of a URL that explains
the

process by which SW trasmissions are rebroadcast via satellite?
Obviously,
I've got more to learn about this. ;)

I'm still looking for this one.

Nobody is broadcasting shortwave frequencies from satellites. (There are a few
ham satellites with repeater outputs on the 10-meter band, if they haven't died
by now.) Gene has a conventional TV channel on satellite, but in addition he
and others are using the new technology which is taking the place of shortwave
in affluent countries, MPEG broadcasting. Basically this is using the same
multiplexing and modulation scheme as DBS but with no encryption, on the
medium-power Ku-band satellites rather than the high-power DBS satellites. Just
like DBS, you can pack a few video channels and a lot of audio channels onto one
transponder. In the United States, you'll find two main types of things
broadcast this way: foreign-language programming (Asian channels are
particularly popular) and Protestant evangelism. For further information,
consult alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb.

"m II" wrote in message
news:4_yUc.20547$jZ5.15839@clgrps13...
Honus wrote:

I'm going to enjoy this damned hobby if it kills me.

Hear, Hear!

There should be a Latin translation of that somewhere...

I've got the guys over in one of the latin language groups working on it. ;)

"ken" wrote in message
m...
"Honus" wrote in message
. ..
I posted this message over in rec.radio.amateur.dx, but no one seems to
have
any answers for me. It's perhaps a little off-topic, but since most of
the
posts in these parts are, it'll fit right in. And at least here I'll get
some sort of response.

Even if it's political.

I'm just going to cut and paste:



I'm new to the hobby, so please bear with me.

I picked up a Gene Scott broadcast last night on MW at 1615 KHz. Here's
the

Anguilla, British West Indies
24 hours a day - 7 days a week

690 KHz AM

1610 KHz
........snip...................................... ........................

The DX 350 is a sensitive receiver but it doesn't work too well
with a long antenna. The circuits overload and you find images of
stations in all sorts of places where they shouldn't be. The first
thing to do is to disconnect the long wire antenna and see what kind
of reception you get off the whip. Probably the "ghosts" will
disappear. Another thing you can do is to find the switch on the right
hand side of the radio marked ""SW LPF" and switch it on. This will
help remove some of the mysterious signals. If the problem persists
disconnect the ground and see if that helps. You may find that you can
receive most of the stations you want right off the whip. Also, the
"RF Gain" contol should be turned counter-clockwise to the point where
the stations just start to drop off.
If you wnt to get some of the weaker stations, you will have to
experiment and see how much antenna you can use before the
overloading starts. You can wind a few turns around the whip or use
the antenna input at the back. I think 10 or 20 feet of wire would be
plenty. When matched to the right length of antenna, the DX 350
should be fine for your purpose. If you get a bit frustrated at having
to fiddle with the antenna, ride the RF gain, and switch the LPF on
and off, remember that communications receivers that handle a wide
range of signal strengths cost upwards of $1,000.......good
listening.....ken....

Thanks for the tips, Ken. I'm going to give them all a try ASAP.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:50:48 GMT, "Honus"
wrote:


I just told someone over in rec.radio.amateur.dx that I'm
ready to mail my Grundig back to China with a letter enclosed telling
them
where they can send it from there. ;) This whole shortwave/AM DX
experience
has been extremely frustrating.

All I want to do is turn on my radio, spin the dial until I find
something
interesting, look it up in my "Passport" book and have that be the end of
it. sigh Oh well. I might as well start wishing for world peace. ;)

The Grundig S350/Tecsun 2000 is definitely *not* the radio for this!
However, it is nice to use/listen to when you know where you are
tuning, or what you are looking for.

Depending on how much you want to spend, you should look for a used
Radio Shack DX-440/Sangean 803A - same radio. These can be had for
under $100 and have much better performance than the S350. Next step
up would be a used Grundig Satellit 700, or perhaps a used Sony 2010,
for around $250 - $300.

A great bandscanning radio is the Grundig Satellit 800, available new
for around $400, or used for $250 and up. It's easy to use, with a
better than average tuning knob, good filters, good sound and a great
sync mode.

Yep...that's probably were I'll head when it's time to upgrade.

All of these radios have actual tuning knobs. There are loads of
inexpensive Chinese radios that have good performance, but most lack a
tuning knob, instead using just buttons for up/down and direct
frequency entry. Most also have scanning functions, however, and can
be almost as useful as manual tuning, but nothing really beats a real
tuning knob, IMO!

Ha! Those tuning knobs are one of the things that drew me to the S350 in the
first place.

Thanks for the tips!

"mike0219116" wrote in message
news:z3xUc.7289$ni.5199@okepread01...
I have a S350 and it's my "sitting on the back porch with a beer on a nice
night radio", but it's no DX machine. The S350 is a single conversion
radio
and it suffers badly from images as a result.


Just to pick nits, there were many single conversion radios which had decent
image rejection due to additional stages of RF amplification and tuned
circuits. The dual conversion approach became cheaper way to a high
performance radio sometime around 1950. However, multiconversion radios
will have an extra image for each conversion, not to mention conversion
oscillator fundamental and harmonic and IF harmonic birdies. These should
be well supressed, but it's entirely possible some schlockmeister will come
up with a really cheap multiconversion radio that's a total nightmare.

Frank Dresser

"Honus" wrote in message
...

[snip]


The first part of that went clean over my head. Thanks for trying, though!
g


Not a problem. You don't need to run the numbers on a superhet, anymore
than any driver needs to know how an automatic transmission shifts gears.

But, if you get an anomolous signal on your S-350, just figure it's your
radio hearing a signal that's really somewhere else.

I don't know the S-350, but I'll assume it's a decent radio for program
listening. You won't be happy with it if you expect it to have all it's
images and spurious responses silenced. That costs more money.



No, I wasn't that lucky. It's good to have something to look forward to,
though.




If Dr. Scott is boring, feel free to tune out. His boring shows rarely get
better. Dr. Scott can be very good, but he ain't no Brother Stair.

Frank Dresser

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"Honus" wrote in message
...

[snip]


The first part of that went clean over my head. Thanks for trying,
though!
g


Not a problem. You don't need to run the numbers on a superhet, anymore
than any driver needs to know how an automatic transmission shifts gears.

But, if you get an anomolous signal on your S-350, just figure it's your
radio hearing a signal that's really somewhere else.

I don't know the S-350, but I'll assume it's a decent radio for program
listening. You won't be happy with it if you expect it to have all it's
images and spurious responses silenced. That costs more money.

Now you tell me. gbg I just wish that when I'd done all of my research
before I bought it, that someone in those many reviews had mentioned
spurious signals, etc. I wouldn't have known what they meant, but I'd have
investigated it...and probably gone with a different unit.

No, I wasn't that lucky. It's good to have something to look forward to,
though.


If Dr. Scott is boring, feel free to tune out. His boring shows rarely
get
better. Dr. Scott can be very good, but he ain't no Brother Stair.

He went off the air before I could hear any ID, or any real ranting or
tirading. I figured out who he was by other means, i.e. the guy speaking
said it was his 75th brthday, etc. I read up on Scott a little, and I really
am looking forward to hearing some of the outrageous stuff that comes from
him. But I'm not going to listen to a boring sermon to get to it! I just
wanted to log that weird 1615 signal. Oh well. Thanks again.

----- Original Message -----
From: "m II"
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:16 PM
Subject: Gene Scott, satellites and MW


Honus wrote:

I'm going to enjoy this damned hobby if it kills me.

Hear, Hear!

There should be a Latin translation of that somewhere...

And here it is, courtesy of the boys over at alt.language.latin:

"I'm going to enjoy this hobby if it kills me."

Hoc studio fructurus sum etsi eo interfiam.

Or

Mihi stat etiam ad mortem hoc studium persequi.

Literally; "I am determined to pursue this hobby even unto death."



I was hoping to end up with a new sig file, but they don't have quite the
ring that I was looking for.

You're right. I guess when ever I get images on my S350 I just
automatically blame it on its single-conversion design mostly because I have
a cheap Tecsun that's double-conversion and much better at fighting off
images. Perhaps some of the image problems on the S350 can also be blamed
on its filters. They are extra-crappy.

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"mike0219116" wrote in message
news:z3xUc.7289$ni.5199@okepread01...
I have a S350 and it's my "sitting on the back porch with a beer on a
nice
night radio", but it's no DX machine. The S350 is a single conversion
radio
and it suffers badly from images as a result.


Just to pick nits, there were many single conversion radios which had
decent
image rejection due to additional stages of RF amplification and tuned
circuits. The dual conversion approach became cheaper way to a high
performance radio sometime around 1950. However, multiconversion radios
will have an extra image for each conversion, not to mention conversion
oscillator fundamental and harmonic and IF harmonic birdies. These should
be well supressed, but it's entirely possible some schlockmeister will
come
up with a really cheap multiconversion radio that's a total nightmare.

Frank Dresser

Honus wrote:
I was hoping to end up with a new sig file, but they don't have quite the
ring that I was looking for.

There's always "semper ubi sub ubi".

--
It's unfair to characterize Kerry as a flip-flopper. He's consistently in
favor of marrying a rich widow and buying your way into the White House.
-- Rex Tincher

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Honus wrote:
I was hoping to end up with a new sig file, but they don't have quite
the
ring that I was looking for.

There's always "semper ubi sub ubi".

I don't always, but when I do I make sure they're clean. ;)

"Leonard Martin" wrote in message
...


Occasionally I've tuned him in by mistake. Two out of those maybe ten
times he was talking about reproaching his employees for something or
other. When I'm feeling depressed about my job I just spend some time
trying to imagine what it must be like to work in THOSE cubicles!

Leonard


And when Dr. Scott's cubicle minions get down, they can cheer themselves up
by saying "Working for Dr. Scott sure beats working on Brother Stair's
farm!!"

Frank Dresser