"Thurston Howell III" wrote in message
om...
INTERNET RADIO V. SHORT-WAVE - IS SW DYING?

I am getting back into SW from a ten year absence. I will be
purchasing a new, nice quality radio, in the next few weeks. The
reason for my renewed interest is that I purchased a YB FR-200 for
Hurricane Charley. I forgot how I enjoyed SW. However, after surfing
the Internet for a wile, I was surprised (not really) to see limited
to no growth in SW receivers. My last Passport book is from 1995, and
I found that in 2004, the receivers from the 1995 book are the ones
still available, with few new entries.


Radio is a mature technology. There's not much difference between the
current radios and the radios of ten years ago. But there hasn't been much
change in refrigerators or washing machines lately, either.



It is obvious, the advent of the Internet in the last ten years has
changed drastically, the available of worldwide audio and video
programming. With that said, what is not available on the Internet,
that is available on SW? Let me preference by stating, that I
understand SW as a hobby, and I also understand that the challenge of
pulling in programming from a radio is a lot more rewarding than point
and click Real Audio or Windows Media streams. However, for fun, over
the last few days, I would find a signal/program on my little FR-200,
and then, I would find same streamed audio on the Internet. I had a
100% success rate, and the Internet stream is superior, as there is no
interference.


Actually, satellites and television is the biggest change in public
diplomacy. TV programming can be produced for little more than radio
programming now. Governments and networks can use satellites to distribute
programming at low cost. When government spokesmen want to get the word out
now, they get it on TV and give it to the news networks. The message will
trickle down to radio and the internet later. And that message will usually
be just excerpts from a TV speech or TV press conference.



Maybe the FR-200 only pulls in the major stations, and that is why I
found everything, however, is there any worthwhile programming not
streamed live, or available as archive on the Internet.


I suppose that depends on what "worthwhile" means. There's still number
stations, which must be worth something to somebody. I don't think any of
the remaining tropical band stations stream on the internet. The pirates
don't, although some of their programming is distributed on CDs.

Brother Stair and Alex Jones say they are streamed on the internet, but I
only tried it once, and it wasn't working at that time.

A large amount of the worthwhile programming is gone, due to changing
priorities and budget cuts.



To further
tilt program availability on the Internet, there are hundreds of
websites that make available, professional model SW setups, that
Internet uses can directly control.

I understand that poor countries do not widely have access to the
Internet, but US access is far reaching. Will and/or have programmers
stop targeting the US by SW? So I ask, is SW dying a slow death? I
look forward to a nice discussion, Thurston Howell III

Sirius carries way more International broadcasting than XM.

They have WRN, as well as the BBC.

On 23 Aug 2004 00:40:10 GMT, (Super ****ed Dad) wrote:

sw won't die, but xm radio might give it a rub for it's money

"Frank Dresser" wrote


Radio is a mature technology. There's not much difference between the
current radios and the radios of ten years ago. But there hasn't been
much
change in refrigerators or washing machines lately, either.

Hi Frank, your point is understood, but not supported by that argument -
advancements in technology are affecting everything, especially radio.
Software defined radio is opening entire new applications in communications.
And washing machines, btw, are using vastly new technology to use a fraction
of the water formerly required; they no longer twist/agitate during wash and
use transmissions to literally spin things dry, reducing dryer energy
required. These are just examples that technology continues to advance at an
amazing rate, and it is impossible to predict how far or what effect this
will have on a given process or media, etc.


now, they get it on TV and give it to the news networks. The message will
trickle down to radio and the internet later. And that message will
usually
be just excerpts from a TV speech or TV press conference.


Whose to say that shortwave radio may not one day be integrated as a form or
source of messaging into the internet-streams for use by cellphone
information systems? Or even in reverse as a method of backup communications
when cell towers are not available? The interface between technlogy and the
free market make anything possible, and only the timing remains the deciding
factor. When we want something, it's soon there for us. Sometimes
technologies "hang on" even when they seem outdated, because they are
popular, offer an alternative form of entertainment, and/or have a backup
capability that would be too costly to replace, once abandoned.

Jack

In article ,
maria wrote:
Regarding your statement that BBC does not broadcast on shortwave to NA,
I have been listening to them almost every night clear as a bell on
5975, so the next time, i will see if they say world service or specify
another location. sure sounds like it is aimed here.

Go to http://www.bbcworldservice.com and there's a huge chunk of their
web site dedicated to getting you their current schedule.

One mode of operation is to enter in your city, and they'll give you
a menu of the various outlets along with schedules for those outlets.
For cities in the USA, Shortwave comes at the bottom of the list (if
at all) after XM and Sirius Satellite and a list of local (usually NPR)
stations that rebroadcast it. Sometimes there's a note that they don't
target your area on shortwave but it can be received.

You can also get their transmitter schedules for the various target regions.
There's isn't on for North America, but there is one for the Caribbean.
(Which is what you're getting on 5975 and 11835, first from WYFR in Florida
and then (I think dxace said) the VOA site in Delano California. 9825
is also a BBC evening frequency, targeted at South America).

The morning frequencies, (9740, 7160, 6195) are usually (depending on
the space weather) from Singapore aimed at the Philipines and Japan,
which we get on the second or third bounce.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident

J999w wrote:

As long as there's something out there besides static crashes to tune in,
shortwave listening will never die.

Microsoft does Static too?



mike

In article YVyWc.49072$X12.20498@edtnps84,
m II wrote:

J999w wrote:

As long as there's something out there besides static crashes to tune in,
shortwave listening will never die.

Microsoft does Static too?

They have the patent rights on digital static, which they will
vigorously defend with their army of lawyers so don't get any ideas.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:%BoWc.8655$Ka6.1867@okepread03...

"Frank Dresser" wrote


Radio is a mature technology. There's not much difference between the
current radios and the radios of ten years ago. But there hasn't been
much
change in refrigerators or washing machines lately, either.

Hi Frank, your point is understood, but not supported by that argument -
advancements in technology are affecting everything, especially radio.

Certainly not everything, not even the most expensive thing for most people.
Homes are built the mostly the same way, and using mostly the same materials
as they were fifty years ago. Sure, there's some detail differences in
construction and matereials, but not much.


Software defined radio is opening entire new applications in
communications.


I think WinRadios were first sold over ten years ago. Other computer
controlled radios such as the R-71 and NRD-525 date from the late 80s.


And washing machines, btw, are using vastly new technology to use a
fraction
of the water formerly required; they no longer twist/agitate during wash
and
use transmissions to literally spin things dry, reducing dryer energy
required.

Front load washing machines were always more water and energy efficient.
They date from the 50s, if not before. A common gag in the old electronics
magazines of the early TV era involved someone who mistook a front loader
for a round screen TV.

Front loaders weren't common until recently because water and energy
efficiency weren't so important to most buyers, especially since good,
reliable top loaders were available at a much lower price.

There has been an unfortunate spread of electronic controls on what should
be simple appliances, but this trend started in the late 70s. I had a
neighbor who has a 20 something year old high tech refrigerator which a
couple of qualified repairmen said can't be repaired at a reasonable cost
because the electronic controls are expensive and now almost unavailable. I
might given board repair at the component level a shot, but I didn't want to
deal with it. My neighbor was given a cool 1950 era Kenmore which is
controlled by a good ol' bulb and tube thermostat which might outlast us
all.

I will admit I haven't kept up with the latest in gee-whiz appliance tech.
For all I know, marketers have decided we all want refrigerators which need
remote controls and internet connected washing machines.


These are just examples that technology continues to advance at an
amazing rate, and it is impossible to predict how far or what effect this
will have on a given process or media, etc.


now, they get it on TV and give it to the news networks. The message
will
trickle down to radio and the internet later. And that message will
usually
be just excerpts from a TV speech or TV press conference.


Whose to say that shortwave radio may not one day be integrated as a form
or
source of messaging into the internet-streams for use by cellphone
information systems? Or even in reverse as a method of backup
communications
when cell towers are not available?


The problems are obvious. SW bandwidth is usually less than 30 MHz, the
signals have world wide interference potential, and propagation is
unpredictable.

The interface between technology and the
free market make anything possible, and only the timing remains the
deciding
factor. When we want something, it's soon there for us.


Back in the 60s, lots of people thought we'd have our own personal jet
packs, commuter flights to the moon and home robots which looked just like
cute actresses. Oh, well.


Sometimes
technologies "hang on" even when they seem outdated, because they are
popular, offer an alternative form of entertainment, and/or have a backup
capability that would be too costly to replace, once abandoned.

Jack



At one time, nearly all ships were sail powered. Steam power made sail
power obsolete. Sail power might be a back-up for steam power in some ways,
but mostly it isn't all that useful for modern commerce or navies. That
hardly means sail power has disappeared. There are still plenty of sailing
ships, and plenty of sailors for them. And you can be sure they these
sailors haven't been conscripted, impressed or Shanghai'ed. The crews of
current sailing ships are boating hobbyists.

I see shortwave in a similar way. Most of the applications for shortwave
can now be done in different ways, better ways. But the ionosphere is
still a wonderful natural resource, and will always be a playground for
radio hobbyists.

Frank Dresser

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 04:54:03 GMT, Telamon
wrote:

In article YVyWc.49072$X12.20498@edtnps84,
m II wrote:

J999w wrote:

As long as there's something out there besides static crashes to tune in,
shortwave listening will never die.

Microsoft does Static too?

They have the patent rights on digital static, which they will
vigorously defend with their army of lawyers so don't get any ideas.
LOL !

David wrote in message . ..
Sirius carries way more International broadcasting than XM.

They have WRN, as well as the BBC.

On 23 Aug 2004 00:40:10 GMT, (Super ****ed Dad) wrote:

sw won't die, but xm radio might give it a rub for it's money

I think this may be part of what guarantees the survival of SW. Sirius
DOES have more. In fact, it has vastly more....so much more that the
only way you're going to end up listening to, say, Voice of Turkey is
if you're on a mission to hear it even before you turn on your radio.
Same with the internet. Denmark may have discontinued their shortwave
broadcasts in favor of 'broadcasts' over the internet, but I
personally don't know anyone who's ever seen one. My guess is that
their service is now targeted almost exclusively at Danes abroad or
something like that, but this is precisely the kind of decision
broadcasters have to make. When Denmark discontinued its broadcasts,
it basically said "I don't want this audience over here. Instead, I
want this other, very different sort of audience over there, on the
internet."

I don't think things look so bad for SW.

"Frank Dresser" wrote

"Jack Painter" wrote in message

Software defined radio is opening entire new applications in
communications.


I think WinRadios were first sold over ten years ago. Other computer
controlled radios such as the R-71 and NRD-525 date from the late 80s.

Hi Frank - that's not software-defined radio at all. SDR is the frequency
and bandwidth control by computer logic that uses entire sections of
spectrum, with channel separation as small as 10hz, and has the potential to
make 100,000 times the bandwidth available. It also has the potential to
really screw up the spectrum as we know it. It wll change things in a big
way, and the FCC has been working on ways to evaluate it in experimental
programs for a while now.

And washing machines, btw, are using vastly new technology to use a
fraction
of the water formerly required; they no longer twist/agitate during wash
and
use transmissions to literally spin things dry, reducing dryer energy
required.

Front load washing machines were always more water and energy efficient.
They date from the 50s, if not before. A common gag in the old
electronics
magazines of the early TV era involved someone who mistook a front loader
for a round screen TV.

Here again, was not my example, but I wasn't specific, sorry. New top-load
washers that are computer controlled use a fraction of the water formerly
required, and no longer agitate to clean. They can practically eliminate the
need for dry cleaning since all delicates can now be done in these new
machines. The energy savings from less water, less dryer time, and little or
no dry cleaning make the $800-1,000 price tags a real bargain, paying for
themselves in a very short time (like 2-3 years). Whether they last 10 years
remains to be seen. I strongly advise whole-house normal-mode (line to
neutral only) surge protection for homes that invest in these hi-tech
appliances, home entertainments systems and communications equipment!
They're not your Father's Oldsmobile, and power-strip surge protection (a
misnomer in the first place) will not protect these equipments.

I will admit I haven't kept up with the latest in gee-whiz appliance tech.
For all I know, marketers have decided we all want refrigerators which
need
remote controls and internet connected washing machines.

I see that G. Get out more Frank, there is some amazing techology to look
at, even if it means putting up with the sale-pitch crap from appliance
dealers, lol.

Whose to say that shortwave radio may not one day be integrated as a
form
or
source of messaging into the internet-streams for use by cellphone
information systems? Or even in reverse as a method of backup
communications
when cell towers are not available?

The problems are obvious. SW bandwidth is usually less than 30 MHz, the
signals have world wide interference potential, and propagation is
unpredictable.

Probably true, that was just an off the cuff example of the many
possibilities that bandwidth has. It will certainly be important to most
industries and hopefully

Back in the 60s, lots of people thought we'd have our own personal jet
packs, commuter flights to the moon and home robots which looked just like
cute actresses. Oh, well.

Remember when Ma Bell came out with the picture-phone in the early 70's?
They thought every home would have one. Turns out consumers thought it was a
really stupid idea, and the techonolgy was shelved when no one bought into
it.. It's still a dumb idea today, lol, but it may have contributed to other
ideas that were useful.


At one time, nearly all ships were sail powered. Steam power made sail
power obsolete. Sail power might be a back-up for steam power in some
ways,
but mostly it isn't all that useful for modern commerce or navies. That
hardly means sail power has disappeared. There are still plenty of
sailing
ships, and plenty of sailors for them. And you can be sure they these
sailors haven't been conscripted, impressed or Shanghai'ed. The crews of
current sailing ships are boating hobbyists.

I see shortwave in a similar way. Most of the applications for shortwave
can now be done in different ways, better ways. But the ionosphere is
still a wonderful natural resource, and will always be a playground for
radio hobbyists.

Frank Dresser

I agree, and I hope there is enough left to play in over the next decade or
2.

Jack Painter