What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.
 

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.

DX is a term usually applied to distant, weak or otherwise challenging signals.

SWLing applies to any shortwave listening.

Kind of in the ear of the beholder, but I would say SWLing is the pursuit of
listening to program material (of whatever genre) on the shortwave bands.
For example Folks born in other countries want info and perhaps music from
the homeland. A language student might listen to an SWL station in the
studied language to gain profiency.

DXing is the pusuit of hearing and logging distant stations for the sake of
garnering many different countries and stations and perhaps collecting QSL
cards from same.

However many listeners do both.

--
One Watt

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism;
to steal from many is research.
-- Comedian Steven Wright


"aristotle" wrote in message
om...
What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.


One opinion? There is one, three, five international (or domestic) SW
broadcasts you listen to regularly. That's all you care to do with the
SW receiver. It is, to you, a radio that tunes different frequencies
from your AM/FM set, but you use it about the saem way. That's SW
listening.


Or, you like to experiment with antenna configurations, you keep close
logs of what you've found on the air, you are always trying to find and
ID some signal you haven't logged before, (and the further from you the
transmitter is, or the lower that transmitter's output power, the more
you prize that ID) and you probably stay up too late at night, or get up
at ungodly hours of the morning to "see what you can find". That's
SWDX.

Tony

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:11:24 -0400, Tony Meloche
wrote:



aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.


One opinion? There is one, three, five international (or domestic) SW
broadcasts you listen to regularly. That's all you care to do with the
SW receiver. It is, to you, a radio that tunes different frequencies
from your AM/FM set, but you use it about the saem way. That's SW
listening.


Or, you like to experiment with antenna configurations, you keep close
logs of what you've found on the air, you are always trying to find and
ID some signal you haven't logged before, (and the further from you the
transmitter is, or the lower that transmitter's output power, the more
you prize that ID) and you probably stay up too late at night, or get up
at ungodly hours of the morning to "see what you can find". That's
SWDX.

Tony


" ... and the further from you the transmitter is ...."

This is the only part oif your description that involves DX.
All the rest may be said of any otherwise enthusiastic SWLer.

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.



dX ing is a step towards a differential calculus. It means a change, or
Delta in X

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~davemc/Class/...ture9/line.gif


This is also known as 'Rise over Run' in slopehead circles.


Don't let the masses here convince you otherwise.


SWL probably means dxAces' initials.




mike

m II wrote:
aristotle wrote:
What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.

dX ing is a step towards a differential calculus. It means a change, or
Delta in X

No, silly, that's dY-by-dXing. dX is what you chop dFirewood with.

--
Frank Abagnale on "Rathergate" (the CBS forgery scandal):
"If my forgeries looked as bad as the CBS documents, [the movie "Catch Me If
You Can"] would have been 'Catch Me In Two Days'."

clifto wrote:

dX ing is a step towards a differential calculus. It means a change, or
Delta in X


No, silly, that's dY-by-dXing. dX is what you chop dFirewood with.



That would certainly explain my problems in school.

I'm OK now, though...they got a real good job placement for me. I work
with a guy named Steve Lare, but only **I** get to use the spray gun!

http://www.zzz.com.ru/zzz_original_site/pic78.jpg




mike

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.

Dx'ing is a particular kind of Swl'ing (shortwave listening). It
involves the pursuit of hard to hear stations, whether they be
international program broadcasters, utility stations (data or voice) or
amateur radio transmissions. All Dx'ers are Swl'ers but the reverse is
not necessarily the case.


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On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:50:54 -0400, starman wrote:

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.

Dx'ing is a particular kind of Swl'ing (shortwave listening). It
involves the pursuit of hard to hear stations, whether they be
international program broadcasters, utility stations (data or voice) or
amateur radio transmissions. All Dx'ers are Swl'ers but the reverse is
not necessarily the case.

You don't think "distance" is the primary concept in DX?


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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:34:46 -0500, clifto wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:50:54 -0400, starman wrote:
Dx'ing is a particular kind of Swl'ing (shortwave listening). It
involves the pursuit of hard to hear stations, whether they be
international program broadcasters, utility stations (data or voice) or
amateur radio transmissions. All Dx'ers are Swl'ers but the reverse is
not necessarily the case.

You don't think "distance" is the primary concept in DX?

Think about this: what do you do after you've heard a station from
fully half way around the world?

Sometimes DX is DX because it's rare, not necessarily because it's
distant. Don't take the acronym thing too seriously.

So just change the meaning of the acronym to suit your
purposes, right?

If someone is transmitting from a humdred feet away with a
microwatt power, it's DX? Wake up.

m II wrote:

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.

dX ing is a step towards a differential calculus. It means a change, or
Delta in X

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~davemc/Class/...ture9/line.gif

This is also known as 'Rise over Run' in slopehead circles.

Don't let the masses here convince you otherwise.

SWL probably means dxAces' initials.

mike

In that case, what's dy'ing?


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wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:34:46 -0500, clifto wrote:



So just change the meaning of the acronym to suit your
purposes, right?

If someone is transmitting from a humdred feet away with a
microwatt power, it's DX? Wake up.

That's it! Stand up for literalism!! I mean that literally. Get on your
feet and stand up!! Don't back down! Give 'em an inch and they'll take a
mile. And in inch terms, a mile is certainly DX.

Oh, I didn't catch your rant in the last "This is a SHORTWAVE RADIO group"
subthread. If you missed your chance, don't worry. If you miss one off
topic thread, they'll be another one.

Frank Dresser

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:26:50 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:34:46 -0500, clifto wrote:



So just change the meaning of the acronym to suit your
purposes, right?

If someone is transmitting from a humdred feet away with a
microwatt power, it's DX? Wake up.

That's it! Stand up for literalism!! I mean that literally. Get on your
feet and stand up!! Don't back down! Give 'em an inch and they'll take a
mile. And in inch terms, a mile is certainly DX.

Beats the hell out of standing up for sloppy thought. DX is
an explicit reference to reception of distant stations and has been
ubnderstood that way for decades. If they're nearby, it's not DX. If
you don't like it, think up a different acronym and pervert it to
whatever your taste is at the moment.

Why not call it radar? What the hell, it's all electromagnetic
waves anyway.

Oh, I didn't catch your rant in the last "This is a SHORTWAVE RADIO group"
subthread. If you missed your chance, don't worry.

**** off, lunatic. If you can't recognize your own spew as a
rant, you have no standing to criticize anyone else.

If you miss one off
topic thread, they'll be another one.

If going off-topic so offends you, what are you doing in this
part of the thread. Go home and be happy. Droolingly happy.

"All DX'ers are SWL'ers"

Not necessarilly. Some Dxers only DX the MW band.

"All DX'ers are SWL'ers"

Not necessarilly. Some Dxers only DX the MW band.

and some like to DX only the LW band.

I dx the mw and sw bands, among others, such as FM and TV back in the
days when we had antennas instead of cable.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:26:50 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:34:46 -0500, clifto wrote:



So just change the meaning of the acronym to suit your
purposes, right?

If someone is transmitting from a humdred feet away with a
microwatt power, it's DX? Wake up.

That's it! Stand up for literalism!! I mean that literally. Get on
your
feet and stand up!! Don't back down! Give 'em an inch and they'll take
a
mile. And in inch terms, a mile is certainly DX.

Beats the hell out of standing up for sloppy thought. DX is
an explicit reference to reception of distant stations and has been
ubnderstood that way for decades. If they're nearby, it's not DX. If
you don't like it, think up a different acronym and pervert it to
whatever your taste is at the moment.


I think you misunderstand. Which words did I use to suggest I don't like
the term DX?

And I'm supporting your standing up for literalism! But I'm not literally
supporting you. I hope you know what I mean, this time.



Why not call it radar? What the hell, it's all electromagnetic
waves anyway.


Or particles. Or something that's not really a wave or a particle. But I'm
damn sure it's something, anyway.



Oh, I didn't catch your rant in the last "This is a SHORTWAVE RADIO
group"
subthread. If you missed your chance, don't worry.

**** off, lunatic. If you can't recognize your own spew as a
rant, you have no standing to criticize anyone else.


Another misunderstanding. I frequently rant on rrs, and I'm quite aware of
it!! Just look at all these exclamation points!!!!!



If you miss one off
topic thread, they'll be another one.

If going off-topic so offends you, what are you doing in this
part of the thread. Go home and be happy. Droolingly happy.


Didn't you know? I'm not offended and I am droolingly happy!! Have you
considered taking one of those psychic courses from Maj. Ed Dames or Sean
David Morton? It might cut down on these out-of-context imaginings of
yours!!!

Frank Dresser

) writes:

Beats the hell out of standing up for sloppy thought. DX is
an explicit reference to reception of distant stations and has been
ubnderstood that way for decades. If they're nearby, it's not DX. If
you don't like it, think up a different acronym and pervert it to
whatever your taste is at the moment.

But DX can't be an absolute.

Think of VHF, where distant communication is rare or dependent on fancy
techniques. So you normally only hear or talk to local stations. Then
along comes good radio conditions, and you can suddenly hear that station
which isn't particularly far away, but beyond normal reception. Suddenly,
that 300 or whatever mile away station is DX, because it's further than
local.

Or "What's your best DX?". For the beginner, it may not be very far,
because they've not gotten to the distant stations. But since it is
something he's not heard before, it is DX.

Michael

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.

If you don't know, then you're not a 'DX'er'. When you do know, then you'll
either be a DX'er or a SWL'er.

That's my best explanation.

dxAce
Michigan

I'm not the one who changed it. It's changed over time, the way the
rest of the language changes.

true. Just like when I was growing up, "that's a bad shirt you have on"
or "that's so bad" meant the opposite of good.

Now the exact same sentences means the same as really good.

depending on who's saying it and whether they mean 'really good" or mean
"the opposite of "really good" when they say "bad'.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:50:54 -0400, starman wrote:

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.


If you have a beginner class SWL call sign, such as WA4009SWL, you are only
allowed to listen to the major broadcasters with a strong signal on a
portable receiver without a tuning knob (up and down buttons only).

If you get an advanced class DX call sign, such as IQ0001DX, you are allowed
to start chasing those hard to get stations like Radio Huuhaa from Vyborg,
Russia. However, you're limited to a single receiver with a tuning knob and
cannot mix SWL with DX except on government holidays.

If you get a combination masters class call sign, such as IQ1007SWLDX, you
are allowed to SWL and DX simultaneously, one receiver each. However, one of
the receivers has to be a portable without a sync detector.

If you decide to get no call sign whatsoever, you can do anything you want.

Jari S.

Jari Savolainen wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:50:54 -0400, starman wrote:

aristotle wrote:

What is the difference between shortwave dxing and swling.


If you have a beginner class SWL call sign, such as WA4009SWL, you are only
allowed to listen to the major broadcasters with a strong signal on a
portable receiver without a tuning knob (up and down buttons only).

If you get an advanced class DX call sign, such as IQ0001DX, you are allowed
to start chasing those hard to get stations like Radio Huuhaa from Vyborg,
Russia. However, you're limited to a single receiver with a tuning knob and
cannot mix SWL with DX except on government holidays.

If you get a combination masters class call sign, such as IQ1007SWLDX, you
are allowed to SWL and DX simultaneously, one receiver each. However, one of
the receivers has to be a portable without a sync detector.

If you decide to get no call sign whatsoever, you can do anything you want.

Jari S.

I did have one of those callsigns back in the 1960's, it was/is WPE8JSS. That
darn certificate is the only thing I've lost from those beginnining days in
shortwave.

I still have some certificates that Electronics Illustrated offered at the time.

dxAce
Michigan

http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/dxpage.htm

"Michael Black" wrote in message
...


But DX can't be an absolute.

Think of VHF, where distant communication is rare or dependent on fancy
techniques. So you normally only hear or talk to local stations. Then
along comes good radio conditions, and you can suddenly hear that station
which isn't particularly far away, but beyond normal reception. Suddenly,
that 300 or whatever mile away station is DX, because it's further than
local.

Or "What's your best DX?". For the beginner, it may not be very far,
because they've not gotten to the distant stations. But since it is
something he's not heard before, it is DX.

Michael


This DX definition question has been a burden to me. Sure, the D in DX must
mean distance. But the more I thought about it, the less sure I became.
Although Australia is about as far away from the US as could be, listening
to 9580 in the morning hardly seems like DXing. Still, you can't get much
more D than that. The question has had it's effect on my sleep. After
several hours of tossing and turning, I opened my eyes to see a short man in
an expensive three piece suit. "You must be David Sarnoff!" I exclaimed.

Sarnoff beamed with joy. "After all these years, I thought only lunatics
would remember me!" He continued talking. "You know, there's a way out of
this DX conundrum. The D is distance. But we don't use a T for
transmissions, we use an X. The term DX isn't perfect."

"I haven't looked it in that way" I replied, "But I don't see your point."

Sarnoff continued, "The term DX is already corrupted. If a letter such as X
can symbolize transmission, why must D mean distance? Can't it mean
difficult? Can't DXing mean listening to difficult to hear signals?"

"Very impressive" I was still just a bit skeptical. "But this might be
more change than radio hobbyists can accept."

Sarnoff flashed a wicked grin. "One day ARRL stood for the Amateur Radio
Relay League. Now, ARRL stands for The National Association for Amateur
Radio!"

I then realized all the stories about Sarnoff were true. "You really are a
genius!!"

"I do have a way with words" said Sarnoff. "I appeared before Larry Magne
and told him that worldband was an even better word for shortwave than
shortwave."

"Man, you're one of the best!" I enthused.

Sarnoff replied coldly "I've been at the top of the game since I was a young
hotshot telegraph operator with American Marconi."

"Hey, Dave!" Sarnoff winced as I called him Dave, "You relayed the first to
last messages during the Titanic sinking and the rescue. 72 hours
straight!"

Sarnoff nodded.

"That's an incredible story!" I found the historical record lacking, and
now I had the chance to fill in the gaps. "Your American Marconi relay
station was in a department store. Your relay station kept the same hours
as the store. The Titanic's first reports came out while the store was
closed. How could you have known about the disaster in time for the first
message? How did you get to the station? Did you have the keys to the
store? That's sure alot of responsibility for a young man!"

Sarnoff stood silent, nervously fingering the grape sized diamond on his
pinky ring.

"And there were so many stations on the air during the emergency that
American Marconi silenced some them to reduce interference. Your station
was one of those shut down. How did you stay on the air? Did you have your
own pirate station?"

He said "Well, there's really not much more to say."

I knew Sarnoff was many things, but he was not modest. Who was this
intruder? Suddenly, my blood ran cold. I instinctively grabbed my bedside
copy of The Radio Engineer's Handbook with one hand and affixed a cross
reference manual to the other.

"IN THE NAME OF FRED TERMAN I ORDER YOU GONE, DEMON!!!"

The Sarnoff Demon was stunned. But no radionic evil can stand up to the
power of the Good Book and an invocation of Terman. The Sarnoff Demon
disappeared in a cloud of selenium rectifier smoke.


I came so close to the fall. I had almost been seduced by the easy way.
I'm going to stick with hard line DX fundamentalism from now on. D means
Distance. Nothing else.

But what distance defines DX? We need a definition which will stand for all
time, past present and future. In the pioneering days of radio, just over
100 years ago, 50 miles was a long haul. I think that's an excellent place
to fix our strict definition of DX.

50 miles.

Frank Dresser

Great story there Frank - thanks for that.
It's true of course - what is a DX catch for a beginner is quite different
from what a veteran DXer might consider DX.
Actually, getting a 11,500 mile catch on HF SW is no big deal for a veteran
DXer, but getting those distances on MW or LW is another thing.

The furthest DX catches I have seen on logged MW are about 10,000 miles, but
that is real DX, the sort of thing that comes in once in a blue moon from a
serious DX location with some hefty beverage antenna's. That sort of thing
only gets logged from the ultimate DX sites by veteran DXer's.

The longest/furthest catch I ever saw logged was by the New Zealanders who
logged one of the high powered LW stations in France, some 11,800 miles from
the DX site near Invercargill.

It's a great hobby = enjoy!
--
John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
South 33 d 47 m 540 s, East 20 d 07 m 541 s.
RX Drake R8B, SW8
BW XCR 30, Braun T1000, Sangean 818 & 803A.
Hallicrafters SX-100, Eddystone 940
GE circa 50's radiogram
Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro, Datong AD-270
Kiwa MW Loop

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"Michael Black" wrote in message
...


But DX can't be an absolute.

Think of VHF, where distant communication is rare or dependent on fancy
techniques. So you normally only hear or talk to local stations. Then
along comes good radio conditions, and you can suddenly hear that
station
which isn't particularly far away, but beyond normal reception.
Suddenly,
that 300 or whatever mile away station is DX, because it's further than
local.

Or "What's your best DX?". For the beginner, it may not be very far,
because they've not gotten to the distant stations. But since it is
something he's not heard before, it is DX.

Michael


This DX definition question has been a burden to me. Sure, the D in DX
must
mean distance. But the more I thought about it, the less sure I became.
Although Australia is about as far away from the US as could be, listening
to 9580 in the morning hardly seems like DXing. Still, you can't get much
more D than that. The question has had it's effect on my sleep. After
several hours of tossing and turning, I opened my eyes to see a short man
in
an expensive three piece suit. "You must be David Sarnoff!" I exclaimed.

Sarnoff beamed with joy. "After all these years, I thought only lunatics
would remember me!" He continued talking. "You know, there's a way out
of
this DX conundrum. The D is distance. But we don't use a T for
transmissions, we use an X. The term DX isn't perfect."

"I haven't looked it in that way" I replied, "But I don't see your point."

Sarnoff continued, "The term DX is already corrupted. If a letter such as
X
can symbolize transmission, why must D mean distance? Can't it mean
difficult? Can't DXing mean listening to difficult to hear signals?"

"Very impressive" I was still just a bit skeptical. "But this might be
more change than radio hobbyists can accept."

Sarnoff flashed a wicked grin. "One day ARRL stood for the Amateur Radio
Relay League. Now, ARRL stands for The National Association for Amateur
Radio!"

I then realized all the stories about Sarnoff were true. "You really are
a
genius!!"

"I do have a way with words" said Sarnoff. "I appeared before Larry
Magne
and told him that worldband was an even better word for shortwave than
shortwave."

"Man, you're one of the best!" I enthused.

Sarnoff replied coldly "I've been at the top of the game since I was a
young
hotshot telegraph operator with American Marconi."

"Hey, Dave!" Sarnoff winced as I called him Dave, "You relayed the first
to
last messages during the Titanic sinking and the rescue. 72 hours
straight!"

Sarnoff nodded.

"That's an incredible story!" I found the historical record lacking, and
now I had the chance to fill in the gaps. "Your American Marconi relay
station was in a department store. Your relay station kept the same hours
as the store. The Titanic's first reports came out while the store was
closed. How could you have known about the disaster in time for the first
message? How did you get to the station? Did you have the keys to the
store? That's sure alot of responsibility for a young man!"

Sarnoff stood silent, nervously fingering the grape sized diamond on his
pinky ring.

"And there were so many stations on the air during the emergency that
American Marconi silenced some them to reduce interference. Your station
was one of those shut down. How did you stay on the air? Did you have
your
own pirate station?"

He said "Well, there's really not much more to say."

I knew Sarnoff was many things, but he was not modest. Who was this
intruder? Suddenly, my blood ran cold. I instinctively grabbed my
bedside
copy of The Radio Engineer's Handbook with one hand and affixed a cross
reference manual to the other.

"IN THE NAME OF FRED TERMAN I ORDER YOU GONE, DEMON!!!"

The Sarnoff Demon was stunned. But no radionic evil can stand up to the
power of the Good Book and an invocation of Terman. The Sarnoff Demon
disappeared in a cloud of selenium rectifier smoke.


I came so close to the fall. I had almost been seduced by the easy way.
I'm going to stick with hard line DX fundamentalism from now on. D means
Distance. Nothing else.

But what distance defines DX? We need a definition which will stand for
all
time, past present and future. In the pioneering days of radio, just over
100 years ago, 50 miles was a long haul. I think that's an excellent
place
to fix our strict definition of DX.

50 miles.

Frank Dresser