Hello Lucky.

You know, you can go so "crazy" on this subject that you lose sight of
your real objectives. In your original message you stated:

"I'll be using the receiver for AM BC during the day, and local Hams
and
DX'ing at night into the wee hours."

Regarding the two receivers in which you are interested, it is my
opinion that it is always better to buy something new rather than some
dude's cast-off finery. (Why is he selling? No one gets rid of
something they like!) You could call Universal and speak to a
technician there who could give you some advice on configuring an ICOM
and then you could have (after one year and the warranty is expired)
the Kiwa modifications effected.

However, for the type of listening you do (AM BC, Hams, SW
broadcasters), the Grundig Satellit 800 would be almost ideal. Order
one from Universal and ask them to test the particular unit you will
be getting prior to shipment. You will get a fine receiver in perfect
condition which will suit you very well. You will not need any
modifications to it, you will have very fine sound and excellent
performance for the type of listening you do, and the price will be
right. Want better sound? Run the Grundig through your stereo system.
Cost is the cost of connectors at the Radio Shack. Want better
performance? Buy a better antenna. You know that the antenna is far
more important than the receiver.

I know that the Sat800 doesn't have the "prestige" or "professional"
styling of some of the more esoteric receivers, but the performance is
there! Also you would have FM and some limited portability to boot.

FYI: I own a Sat800 and use it for most "casual" (BBC, VOR,
R.Nederland, etc.) listening. I also own an AOR AR7030 Plus (modified
by the factory) Receiver, which is the finest radio with which I have
ever had experience, bar none. (Note to the gentleman who wrote post
#26: when listening to music over the shortwaves, I DO run my AR7030
Plus through Klipschorn speakers [the cost of which is now over $6000
per pair] using a Hafler DH-101 Preamplifier and a Hafler DH-200 Power
Amplifier. The sound quality must be heard to be believed!)

My antennas a Wellbrook ALA 330S Active Loop Antenna (for the AOR
and sometimes for the Grundig) and AOR WL-500 Active Window Loop
Antenna (mostly for the Grundig).

Given the fact that my AOR cost almost four times the price of the
Sat800, and given that your budget appears to be in the $400-600
range, and also noting that if you were to buy a Sat800 you will still
be able to avail yourself of that fine Drake service (I've had
experience with it), I feel that the Sat800 would be the best
"real-world" option for you.

Consider it carefully.

All the best,

Joe

My antennas a Wellbrook ALA 330S Active Loop Antenna (for the AOR
and sometimes for the Grundig) and AOR WL-500 Active Window Loop
Antenna (mostly for the Grundig).



All the best,

Joe

Say, can you comment on the performance of the AOR WL-500? I have the
LA350 and it's pretty amazing. Also, can you compare the Wellbrook to
the Skymatch H-800?

I know that you're being able to offer these direct comparisons is a
longshot, but it never hurts to ask!

Steve

Hello Steve,

The performance of the AOR WL-500 is excellent. It really attenuates
the local electrical noise I have in my location and pulls in signals
well. Generally I find a 10-20 dB increase in signal strength over the
whip and the signal-to-noise ratio (which is really the most important
thing) is greatly improved. I had tried numerous other antennas and
combinations and this was the first one which was truly satisfactory
with my Sat800. I cannot comment on the AOR LA350, having had no
experience with it. I have read good things about it from others,
however, and PASSPORT likes it.

I am not familiar at all with the Skymatch H-800. I can tell you that
the Wellbrook ALA 330S Active Loop Antenna is positively the finest
antenna with which I have worked. Of course, since I have it attic
mounted on a rotator, and it is at the back of my house (as far away
from the source[s] of electrical noise as I can get; the WL-500 is in
the front as CLOSE to the sources of electrical interference I can
get!), it well outperforms the WL-500. It is noticeably quieter than
any other antenna I have ever used and makes SW listening during the
summer a real joy. This is something that even a 100-foot longwire
(which I had many years ago) could not do.

Both antennas are expensive, $200 and $300 respectively. Add to the
Wellbrook a rotator ($100), though that is not wholly necessary, and
coax and installation charges (if any) and you have a major purchase,
though one with which I am completely satisfied.

Frankly, for travel and light use around the house, I cannot imagine a
better antenna than the AOR WL-500. (There are a couple of annoyances
with this antenna, about which I have written elsewhere, but they are
really minor. They do not affect performance nor would they be a
reason not to buy.)

For overall general use in many situations where a longwire is
impractical, and/or for secondary use along with a longwire,
especially in the summertime, or any time/place where there is a lot
of local electrical noise, I do not believe there is any better
antenna at this time than the Wellbrook ALA 330S. It can be mounted in
your room (if there is no one to object), in the attic, outside on
your roof, or even on a fencepost! Like most loops, mounting placement
and position is not overly critical, though outdoor mounting of course
works the best, I'm told. However, I am very satisfied with my attic
mount, which has the advantage of protection from the weather. (Note
that if you are interested in MW broadcasts, Wellbrook makes the
similar ALA 1530 which covers the MW broadcast band as well as the SW
bands. Its performance on SW is very slightly less than the ALA 330S,
according to PASSPORT, and, if your set does not have the absolute
best rejection of MW signals within the SW band, you can have some
unwanted MW signals "surfacing" in the SW frequencies [naturally, that
is applicable to most antennas]. This, of course, is not a problem
with the '330S. I use the C.Crane "Justice" AM antenna, sometimes
along with a Select-a-Tenna for my MW DXing which, frankly, I do not
do very often. These MW antennas, alone or in combination, have proven
very satisfactory to me.)

After many years of frustrated searching, I have finally found two SW
antennas with which I am completely satisfied and I would recommend
them both.

I hope the above is of some use to you.

All the best,

Joe

(Steve) wrote in message . com...

Say, can you comment on the performance of the AOR WL-500? I have the
LA350 and it's pretty amazing. Also, can you compare the Wellbrook to
the Skymatch H-800?

I know that you're being able to offer these direct comparisons is a
longshot, but it never hurts to ask!

Steve

Wow, thanks Joe for all the info on the WL-500 and the Wellbrook. I'm
always trying to learn more about these antennas.

You mentioned that the Wellbrook noticeably outperforms the WL-500, at
least in part due to the fact that the Wellbrook is in the attic away
from noise sources while the WL-500 is very close to noise sources.
I'd imagine that the Wellbrook would outperform the WL-500 even if
they were being used under similar conditions, but I wonder: Have you
ever pitted them against one another, head-to-head, just for the heck
of it? If so, just how much better was the Wellbrook's performance? Or
are they even comparable?

Also, how sensitive or 'fine grained' is the preselector on the
WL-500? I know that on the AOR LA-350, you have to adjust the
preselector for optimum reception even on frequencies that are quite
close to one another. The downside of this is that it means you
constantly have to twiddle with the preselector, but the upside is
that it allows you to 'peak up' on whatever frequency you're listening
to with pretty dramatic results.

Thanks,

Steve


(Joe Analssandrini) wrote in message . com...
Hello Steve,

The performance of the AOR WL-500 is excellent. It really attenuates
the local electrical noise I have in my location and pulls in signals
well. Generally I find a 10-20 dB increase in signal strength over the
whip and the signal-to-noise ratio (which is really the most important
thing) is greatly improved. I had tried numerous other antennas and
combinations and this was the first one which was truly satisfactory
with my Sat800. I cannot comment on the AOR LA350, having had no
experience with it. I have read good things about it from others,
however, and PASSPORT likes it.

I am not familiar at all with the Skymatch H-800. I can tell you that
the Wellbrook ALA 330S Active Loop Antenna is positively the finest
antenna with which I have worked. Of course, since I have it attic
mounted on a rotator, and it is at the back of my house (as far away
from the source[s] of electrical noise as I can get; the WL-500 is in
the front as CLOSE to the sources of electrical interference I can
get!), it well outperforms the WL-500. It is noticeably quieter than
any other antenna I have ever used and makes SW listening during the
summer a real joy. This is something that even a 100-foot longwire
(which I had many years ago) could not do.

Both antennas are expensive, $200 and $300 respectively. Add to the
Wellbrook a rotator ($100), though that is not wholly necessary, and
coax and installation charges (if any) and you have a major purchase,
though one with which I am completely satisfied.

Frankly, for travel and light use around the house, I cannot imagine a
better antenna than the AOR WL-500. (There are a couple of annoyances
with this antenna, about which I have written elsewhere, but they are
really minor. They do not affect performance nor would they be a
reason not to buy.)

For overall general use in many situations where a longwire is
impractical, and/or for secondary use along with a longwire,
especially in the summertime, or any time/place where there is a lot
of local electrical noise, I do not believe there is any better
antenna at this time than the Wellbrook ALA 330S. It can be mounted in
your room (if there is no one to object), in the attic, outside on
your roof, or even on a fencepost! Like most loops, mounting placement
and position is not overly critical, though outdoor mounting of course
works the best, I'm told. However, I am very satisfied with my attic
mount, which has the advantage of protection from the weather. (Note
that if you are interested in MW broadcasts, Wellbrook makes the
similar ALA 1530 which covers the MW broadcast band as well as the SW
bands. Its performance on SW is very slightly less than the ALA 330S,
according to PASSPORT, and, if your set does not have the absolute
best rejection of MW signals within the SW band, you can have some
unwanted MW signals "surfacing" in the SW frequencies [naturally, that
is applicable to most antennas]. This, of course, is not a problem
with the '330S. I use the C.Crane "Justice" AM antenna, sometimes
along with a Select-a-Tenna for my MW DXing which, frankly, I do not
do very often. These MW antennas, alone or in combination, have proven
very satisfactory to me.)

After many years of frustrated searching, I have finally found two SW
antennas with which I am completely satisfied and I would recommend
them both.

I hope the above is of some use to you.

All the best,

Hi Steve,

I compared them "head-to-head" only once (with the AOR WL-500 mounted
in a window in the back of my house, almost directly under the
Wellbrook in the attic) and the Wellbrook still performed better (5-20
dB at the time). (I cannot mount the WL-500 in the attic where I have
the Wellbrook.) I did not perform a comprehensive test, however.

The preselector on the WL-500 is not critical at all. You do have to
switch between 3-9 and 9-30 MHz, but the "tuning" knob is very easy to
use and you do not need to adjust it within a meter band; you can do
so, of course, if you want to get the very last bit of gain, but,
frankly, I have rarely had to do that.

FYI: The Wellbrook has no preselector and I was advised by the factory
that none is necessary. Some may even degrade reception, I was told.

All the best,

Joe

(Steve) wrote in message . com...
Wow, thanks Joe for all the info on the WL-500 and the Wellbrook. I'm
always trying to learn more about these antennas.

You mentioned that the Wellbrook noticeably outperforms the WL-500, at
least in part due to the fact that the Wellbrook is in the attic away
from noise sources while the WL-500 is very close to noise sources.
I'd imagine that the Wellbrook would outperform the WL-500 even if
they were being used under similar conditions, but I wonder: Have you
ever pitted them against one another, head-to-head, just for the heck
of it? If so, just how much better was the Wellbrook's performance? Or
are they even comparable?

Also, how sensitive or 'fine grained' is the preselector on the
WL-500? I know that on the AOR LA-350, you have to adjust the
preselector for optimum reception even on frequencies that are quite
close to one another. The downside of this is that it means you
constantly have to twiddle with the preselector, but the upside is
that it allows you to 'peak up' on whatever frequency you're listening
to with pretty dramatic results.

Thanks,

Steve

(Joe Analssandrini) wrote in message . com...
Hi Steve,

I compared them "head-to-head" only once (with the AOR WL-500 mounted
in a window in the back of my house, almost directly under the
Wellbrook in the attic) and the Wellbrook still performed better (5-20
dB at the time). (I cannot mount the WL-500 in the attic where I have
the Wellbrook.) I did not perform a comprehensive test, however.

The preselector on the WL-500 is not critical at all. You do have to
switch between 3-9 and 9-30 MHz, but the "tuning" knob is very easy to
use and you do not need to adjust it within a meter band; you can do
so, of course, if you want to get the very last bit of gain, but,
frankly, I have rarely had to do that.

FYI: The Wellbrook has no preselector and I was advised by the factory
that none is necessary. Some may even degrade reception, I was told.

All the best,

Joe

Thanks for the info, Joe. The Wellbrook really does sound like an
excellent antenna. I'd be tempted to buy one, but it's a lot of dough
to put down without being able to "test drive" it.

It would be neat if one of the remote controlled receivers accessible
via the internet allowed you to switch between a variety of different
antennas. What a useful service that would be--and I suspect some
manufacturers could be convinced to loan an antenna to such an effort
(ASSUMING they're confident their unit will perform well).

Best,

Steve

Dear Steve,

I agree with you about an internet service, which would be helpful,
but it would still not tell you what will happen at your particular
location. Only, as you said, a "test-drive" would answer that.

In my case, I was desperate. In my townhouse community, I cannot erect
an outdoor antenna of any kind (other than a small satellite TV dish)
and, having tried many "homebrew" antennas, preselectors, amplifiers,
etc., I took a chance on the Wellbrook ALA 330S due to the very good
reports in PASSPORT. So far, each year, they seem to like the antenna
more and more. I have found, over the years, that, generally, their
reviews are trustworthy (like all reviewers [including even CONSUMER
REPORTS], they have their "biases" [reviewers are, after all, human!]
but this does not seem to negate the overall value of their reviews in
my experience). I took a chance and, as you know, I am very glad I
did!

Read the review of the Wellbrook antennas in the 2004 PASSPORT if you
can and see if their findings would correspond with your requirements.
(The new 2005 PASSPORT will be coming out in a couple of weeks and,
while I do not know what their review, if any, of the Wellbrook
antennas will be, I cannot imagine them liking the antennas "less!"
You could also, if you wished, telephone Wellbrook directly and speak
to the owner. (You can also e-mail him, but I find telephone
conversations more satisfactory.) (I did not purchase mine from
Wellbrook directly, but, rather, from THE SHORTWAVE SHOP, where you
can use a credit card [and they even discount the price somewhat].)

Only then, and in your particular situation, can you determine whether
it worth shelling out the money and trying the antenna.

I can only restate that I am extremely happy I took the chance. The
Wellbrook ALA 330s is an excellent performer and is most satisfactory
to me. No other antenna I have tried works anywhere nearly as well.

All the best,

Joe

(Steve) wrote in message . com...

Thanks for the info, Joe. The Wellbrook really does sound like an
excellent antenna. I'd be tempted to buy one, but it's a lot of dough
to put down without being able to "test drive" it.

It would be neat if one of the remote controlled receivers accessible
via the internet allowed you to switch between a variety of different
antennas. What a useful service that would be--and I suspect some
manufacturers could be convinced to loan an antenna to such an effort
(ASSUMING they're confident their unit will perform well).

Best,

Steve

I'll consider it but I never really thought of the Sat 800 as a real
hardcore unit I can grow into. I felt I would just outgrow it fast. Like
with the R-75, they is plenty of room for me to grow and learn with it. As I
get more nimble with the radio, the more I can apply my knowledge to it.

I am getting more and more into distant HAMsters too. I was listening to
"Early Bird Net" between 5:00 AM and 6:00 on LSB 3940. I was getting Hams
from Alabama, N.C. Mississippi and even Virginia. But, as more guys checked
in, the less I could hear them. I only could only adjust the clarity to a
certain degree with my unmodded NRD-525

I could hear I needed more ammo to work with. I do like the looks of the
unit. But, you sound extremely knowledgable about this so I will do some
research into the 800. I do like the looks of the unit. I appreciate the
feedback and learn a lot from you guys.

Lucky

"Joe Analssandrini" wrote in message
om...
Hello Lucky.

You know, you can go so "crazy" on this subject that you lose sight of
your real objectives. In your original message you stated:

"I'll be using the receiver for AM BC during the day, and local Hams
and
DX'ing at night into the wee hours."

Regarding the two receivers in which you are interested, it is my
opinion that it is always better to buy something new rather than some
dude's cast-off finery. (Why is he selling? No one gets rid of
something they like!) You could call Universal and speak to a
technician there who could give you some advice on configuring an ICOM
and then you could have (after one year and the warranty is expired)
the Kiwa modifications effected.

However, for the type of listening you do (AM BC, Hams, SW
broadcasters), the Grundig Satellit 800 would be almost ideal. Order
one from Universal and ask them to test the particular unit you will
be getting prior to shipment. You will get a fine receiver in perfect
condition which will suit you very well. You will not need any
modifications to it, you will have very fine sound and excellent
performance for the type of listening you do, and the price will be
right. Want better sound? Run the Grundig through your stereo system.
Cost is the cost of connectors at the Radio Shack. Want better
performance? Buy a better antenna. You know that the antenna is far
more important than the receiver.

I know that the Sat800 doesn't have the "prestige" or "professional"
styling of some of the more esoteric receivers, but the performance is
there! Also you would have FM and some limited portability to boot.

FYI: I own a Sat800 and use it for most "casual" (BBC, VOR,
R.Nederland, etc.) listening. I also own an AOR AR7030 Plus (modified
by the factory) Receiver, which is the finest radio with which I have
ever had experience, bar none. (Note to the gentleman who wrote post
#26: when listening to music over the shortwaves, I DO run my AR7030
Plus through Klipschorn speakers [the cost of which is now over $6000
per pair] using a Hafler DH-101 Preamplifier and a Hafler DH-200 Power
Amplifier. The sound quality must be heard to be believed!)

My antennas a Wellbrook ALA 330S Active Loop Antenna (for the AOR
and sometimes for the Grundig) and AOR WL-500 Active Window Loop
Antenna (mostly for the Grundig).

Given the fact that my AOR cost almost four times the price of the
Sat800, and given that your budget appears to be in the $400-600
range, and also noting that if you were to buy a Sat800 you will still
be able to avail yourself of that fine Drake service (I've had
experience with it), I feel that the Sat800 would be the best
"real-world" option for you.

Consider it carefully.

All the best,

Joe

After doing some more reading on it, I see what you mean. It has fine sound
quality for most people and offers some nice filter selections. I think $450
is kinda overpriced though. It should more like $300-$350 tops. But, if that
new Eton model comes out or the sat 900, prices might come down alot and
I'll grab one then. Seems to be a good all around radio.

Lucky


"Joe Analssandrini" wrote in message
om...
Hello Lucky.

You know, you can go so "crazy" on this subject that you lose sight of
your real objectives. In your original message you stated:

"I'll be using the receiver for AM BC during the day, and local Hams
and
DX'ing at night into the wee hours."

Regarding the two receivers in which you are interested, it is my
opinion that it is always better to buy something new rather than some
dude's cast-off finery. (Why is he selling? No one gets rid of
something they like!) You could call Universal and speak to a
technician there who could give you some advice on configuring an ICOM
and then you could have (after one year and the warranty is expired)
the Kiwa modifications effected.

However, for the type of listening you do (AM BC, Hams, SW
broadcasters), the Grundig Satellit 800 would be almost ideal. Order
one from Universal and ask them to test the particular unit you will
be getting prior to shipment. You will get a fine receiver in perfect
condition which will suit you very well. You will not need any
modifications to it, you will have very fine sound and excellent
performance for the type of listening you do, and the price will be
right. Want better sound? Run the Grundig through your stereo system.
Cost is the cost of connectors at the Radio Shack. Want better
performance? Buy a better antenna. You know that the antenna is far
more important than the receiver.

I know that the Sat800 doesn't have the "prestige" or "professional"
styling of some of the more esoteric receivers, but the performance is
there! Also you would have FM and some limited portability to boot.

FYI: I own a Sat800 and use it for most "casual" (BBC, VOR,
R.Nederland, etc.) listening. I also own an AOR AR7030 Plus (modified
by the factory) Receiver, which is the finest radio with which I have
ever had experience, bar none. (Note to the gentleman who wrote post
#26: when listening to music over the shortwaves, I DO run my AR7030
Plus through Klipschorn speakers [the cost of which is now over $6000
per pair] using a Hafler DH-101 Preamplifier and a Hafler DH-200 Power
Amplifier. The sound quality must be heard to be believed!)

My antennas a Wellbrook ALA 330S Active Loop Antenna (for the AOR
and sometimes for the Grundig) and AOR WL-500 Active Window Loop
Antenna (mostly for the Grundig).

Given the fact that my AOR cost almost four times the price of the
Sat800, and given that your budget appears to be in the $400-600
range, and also noting that if you were to buy a Sat800 you will still
be able to avail yourself of that fine Drake service (I've had
experience with it), I feel that the Sat800 would be the best
"real-world" option for you.

Consider it carefully.

All the best,

Joe

Dear Lucky,

In MY OPINION, $450 is a very LOW price with regard to what you get.
You can lower the price by buying a (Drake) refurbished unit, but I
would recommend that you deal only with a reputable SW dealer such as
Universal or Grove for this. You still want them to "check-out" your
particular unit prior to shipment (as you may know, quality-control on
these units hasn't been all it should be).

I would not count too much on the Eton E1-XM (formerly the Grundig
Satellit 900) being a substitute for the Sat800. I certainly wouldn't
be the "first kid on my block" to buy a new Chinese-manufactured
receiver, especially from Eton/Grundig. You need to wait at least a
year (and a real-world report in PASSPORT) before you know how these
things are really assembled and are performing. (Newsgroups such as
this are also helpful, of course.) I do not believe that the
forthcoming E1-XM will have the specifications of the Sat800 (and I,
for one, have no interest in "pay-radio." Why didn't they at least
offer Sirius as well if this is going to be a "satellite" radio? Why
no built-in stereo? Why no HD-radio? Why no DRM? I feel that this
radio will be obsolete even before it is introduced! Sorry about the
diatribe!).

I do not think the price of the Sat800 will drop in the near future
unless some dealer (such as The Discovery Channel this past summer)
were closing them out, and then you would probably not be able to have
your unit checked out. Even with a warranty, it is somewhat of an
inconvenience (and it is expensive) to ship a unit to Drake, though
their service and turnaround are positively top-notch.

Finally, you'll never "outgrow" a Sat800. Even if you were to buy one
of the Supersets (such as an AOR AR7030 Plus), you would use your
Sat800 for MW and FM as well as for more casual listening.

I hope the above is of some use to you and that it aids and encourages
you in your purchase decision.

Best,

Joe

"Lucky" wrote in message ...
After doing some more reading on it, I see what you mean. It has fine sound
quality for most people and offers some nice filter selections. I think $450
is kinda overpriced though. It should more like $300-$350 tops. But, if that
new Eton model comes out or the sat 900, prices might come down alot and
I'll grab one then. Seems to be a good all around radio.

Lucky