"http://HireMe.geek.nz/" wrote in message
...
Numbers stations : when enough DRM recivers become avalable, robust mode
would be best -- anciallary data streams avalable as well...


It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:

"http://HireMe.geek.nz/" wrote in message
...
Numbers stations : when enough DRM recivers become avalable, robust mode
would be best -- anciallary data streams avalable as well...


It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

That would make it too easy to identify the source.


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"starman" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:

It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

That would make it too easy to identify the source.


Identify the source of the transmission? Big deal. I'm sure the exact
location of all the SW number stations are well known to all the military
and intelligence agencies plus many radio hobbyists. I remember reading a
Pop Comm article by Havana Moon who radio located one of our number stations
in Jupiter Fla.

Direction finding goes way beyond the loops and yagis radio amateurs use on
foxhunts. The 1943 edition of the Radio Engineer's handbook has a nice
rundown of the technology of instanteous direction finding using crossed
loops or adcock antennas and a vector scope. Just look at the scope screen,
and see what direction the transmission is coming from.

It's not hard to imagine that instanteanous radio location can be done now.

Locating a numbers transmission to a particular sattelite might not be
particularly useful. Let's say the Chinese put a sattelite within range of
the US. Every once in a while somebody somewhere is transmitting mystery
numbers from the satellite. Who's doing it? The Chinese might be doing it
them selves, or they might have an arrangement with somebody else. An
arrangement they won't talk about. Where's the uplink? Locating an uplink
would be far more difficult than locating a SW transmitter.

And there's so much bandwidth available, they could do the numbers on TV
like the old Seseme Street countdown.

Frank Dresser

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"starman" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:

It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

That would make it too easy to identify the source.


Identify the source of the transmission? Big deal. I'm sure the exact
location of all the SW number stations are well known to all the military
and intelligence agencies plus many radio hobbyists. I remember reading a
Pop Comm article by Havana Moon who radio located one of our number
stations
in Jupiter Fla.

Don't forget the Cyprus TV show:
http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/page357.htm


--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

I don't think the traditional numbers station is going to really
"advance" past this point in time. These stations apparently were very
vital during the dark days of the Cold War... but I doubt there is
still as much use for them as before.. so I don't think the
governmental organizations are willing to shove more of there
operating budgets into "DRMing" them or throwing them on satelites as
well as providing agents with specially modified sat comm rxers.

Typically numbers stations are transmit for regional purposes.. I
doubt the agents handlers will send the agent across the world and
expect him to pick up a numbers station on HF. Usually most numbers
stations are heard in Europe and seldom out of that area unless
conditions are good or if they are not based in Europe but Cuba or
elsewhere.

I believe most of the numbers stations are for agent sleeper cells.
For example, "Agent Bob" leaves his own county and goes to another
where he acts and works like a normal citizen. Then he may be
activated at any time.. by either a message transmitted in a numbers
station or another method of communications.



"Simon Mason" wrote in message ...
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"starman" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:

It would be even better if they broadcast the numbers from satellites.

Frank Dresser

That would make it too easy to identify the source.


Identify the source of the transmission? Big deal. I'm sure the exact
location of all the SW number stations are well known to all the military
and intelligence agencies plus many radio hobbyists. I remember reading a
Pop Comm article by Havana Moon who radio located one of our number
stations
in Jupiter Fla.

Don't forget the Cyprus TV show:
http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/page357.htm

"RedOctober90" wrote in message
om...
I don't think the traditional numbers station is going to really
"advance" past this point in time. These stations apparently were very
vital during the dark days of the Cold War... but I doubt there is
still as much use for them as before.. so I don't think the
governmental organizations are willing to shove more of there
operating budgets into "DRMing" them or throwing them on satelites as
well as providing agents with specially modified sat comm rxers.

Typically numbers stations are transmit for regional purposes.. I
doubt the agents handlers will send the agent across the world and
expect him to pick up a numbers station on HF. Usually most numbers
stations are heard in Europe and seldom out of that area unless
conditions are good or if they are not based in Europe but Cuba or
elsewhere.

I believe most of the numbers stations are for agent sleeper cells.
For example, "Agent Bob" leaves his own county and goes to another
where he acts and works like a normal citizen. Then he may be
activated at any time.. by either a message transmitted in a numbers
station or another method of communications.



Defense analyst Ana Montes as well as a Cuban spy ring were taking
instructions from the Cuban numbers station. Both the spy ring and Ana
Montes were active. The numbers station still works because, while the
source of the message is well known, the message and target aren't.
According to the stories, much of spycraft is still very low tech. One
advantage about low tech spying approaches is that they are intuitive and
don't require much training. Ms. Montes got tripped up by the computer she
used to decode the transmissions. She didn't know that the body of a
deleted file remains on the hard drive until overwritten.

I think broadcast coded messages one sort or another will be around for a
long time. But I don't think the Cuban numbers will go to DRM until Radio
Havana goes to DRM.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:
I think broadcast coded messages one sort or another will be around for a
long time. But I don't think the Cuban numbers will go to DRM until Radio
Havana goes to DRM.

DRM is sensitive to QRN, no? I'd bet mission-critical commo won't go to
DRM in most cases.

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