"Digital SW will revolutionise cross-border Radio"
 

Monday, 25 October 2004

"Digital short-wave will revolutionise cross-border broadcasts and will
initiate a world-wide renaissance of radio". This was the opinion of the
Director General of Deutsche Welle, Mr Erik Bettermann, during a panel
discussion at Münchner Medientage.

Bettermann, the head of the German international broadcaster - and
instigator of the event - was not the only one to present an optimistic
prediction of a "Digital Global Radio" development: The other panel
specialists also emphasised the advantages of digitalisation in the
so-called AM range, i.e. short-, medium- and long-wave.

The discussion was chaired by Peter Senger, Director of Distribution at
Deutsche Welle and Chairman of the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) Consortium;
and next to Erik Bettermann, BBC representative Mike Cronk, Dan D'Aversa of
RTL Group and Phil Laven of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) were also
participating in the debate.

Senger outlined the advantages of digital short-wave as follows: The
world-wide accepted DRM standard provided an excellent audio-quality
comparable to FM. In addition, the search for frequencies was obsolete, as
the station identification tuned in to the designated frequency and
automatically switched to the best one. In parallel, it allows for the
sending of accompanying programme information such as text messages.

"On top of everything, digital transmission technology saves a lot of energy
and costs compared to the analogue one", Senger said. This would open up
enormous opportunities, especially for international broadcasters.

For several years, DW - like many other broadcasters - has noted that
listeners migrated from short-wave to FM or other new distribution channels
in digital quality, said Bettermann. Deutsche Welle had to stay abreast of
these changes. "According to test transmissions being operated by Deutsche
Welle, we anticipate large area coverage in almost FM quality without
interference such as jitters, induced power-noise or fading", the General
Director stated. At the same time, not only stationery indoor reception, but
also mobile reception in cars and with small portable devices is
possible...(snip).....
Mike Cronk stated that the BBC had invested heavily in DRM and that they
were now developing "a detailed strategy for its initial deployment,
probably into Europe, in 2005". According to Cronk, DRM offered the unique
combination of wide area short-wave coverage and FM usability and quality.
As a consequence of using this digital medium, continuous direct delivery to
the audience avoiding "political or other regulatory obstacles" will be
possible...(snip)....


(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Yeah its going to be really interesting to watch developments over the next
few years. Either it will revolutiionize SW or else it will flop like HDTV
did.

I wonder what the implications for SW DXing are - will it be a hobby that
fades into hisotyr like listning to a crystal raifo 100 years ago?

Richad, Warsaw

PS nice to you on a postive note Mike! Stay away from UK amateur radio ng
"Mike Terry" wrote in message
...
Monday, 25 October 2004

"Digital short-wave will revolutionise cross-border broadcasts and will
initiate a world-wide renaissance of radio". This was the opinion of the
Director General of Deutsche Welle, Mr Erik Bettermann, during a panel
discussion at Münchner Medientage.

Bettermann, the head of the German international broadcaster - and
instigator of the event - was not the only one to present an optimistic
prediction of a "Digital Global Radio" development: The other panel
specialists also emphasised the advantages of digitalisation in the
so-called AM range, i.e. short-, medium- and long-wave.

The discussion was chaired by Peter Senger, Director of Distribution at
Deutsche Welle and Chairman of the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)
Consortium;
and next to Erik Bettermann, BBC representative Mike Cronk, Dan D'Aversa
of
RTL Group and Phil Laven of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) were
also
participating in the debate.

Senger outlined the advantages of digital short-wave as follows: The
world-wide accepted DRM standard provided an excellent audio-quality
comparable to FM. In addition, the search for frequencies was obsolete, as
the station identification tuned in to the designated frequency and
automatically switched to the best one. In parallel, it allows for the
sending of accompanying programme information such as text messages.

"On top of everything, digital transmission technology saves a lot of
energy
and costs compared to the analogue one", Senger said. This would open up
enormous opportunities, especially for international broadcasters.

For several years, DW - like many other broadcasters - has noted that
listeners migrated from short-wave to FM or other new distribution
channels
in digital quality, said Bettermann. Deutsche Welle had to stay abreast of
these changes. "According to test transmissions being operated by Deutsche
Welle, we anticipate large area coverage in almost FM quality without
interference such as jitters, induced power-noise or fading", the General
Director stated. At the same time, not only stationery indoor reception,
but
also mobile reception in cars and with small portable devices is
possible...(snip).....
Mike Cronk stated that the BBC had invested heavily in DRM and that they
were now developing "a detailed strategy for its initial deployment,
probably into Europe, in 2005". According to Cronk, DRM offered the unique
combination of wide area short-wave coverage and FM usability and quality.
As a consequence of using this digital medium, continuous direct delivery
to
the audience avoiding "political or other regulatory obstacles" will be
possible...(snip)....


(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Mike Terry wrote:

Monday, 25 October 2004

"Digital short-wave will revolutionise cross-border broadcasts and will
initiate a world-wide renaissance of radio". This was the opinion of the
Director General of Deutsche Welle, Mr Erik Bettermann, during a panel
discussion at Münchner Medientage.

Bettermann, the head of the German international broadcaster - and
instigator of the event - was not the only one to present an optimistic
prediction of a "Digital Global Radio" development: The other panel
specialists also emphasised the advantages of digitalisation in the
so-called AM range, i.e. short-, medium- and long-wave.

The discussion was chaired by Peter Senger, Director of Distribution at
Deutsche Welle and Chairman of the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) Consortium;
and next to Erik Bettermann, BBC representative Mike Cronk, Dan D'Aversa of
RTL Group and Phil Laven of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) were also
participating in the debate.

Senger outlined the advantages of digital short-wave as follows: The
world-wide accepted DRM standard provided an excellent audio-quality
comparable to FM. In addition, the search for frequencies was obsolete, as
the station identification tuned in to the designated frequency and
automatically switched to the best one. In parallel, it allows for the
sending of accompanying programme information such as text messages.

"On top of everything, digital transmission technology saves a lot of energy
and costs compared to the analogue one", Senger said. This would open up
enormous opportunities, especially for international broadcasters.

For several years, DW - like many other broadcasters - has noted that
listeners migrated from short-wave to FM or other new distribution channels
in digital quality, said Bettermann. Deutsche Welle had to stay abreast of
these changes. "According to test transmissions being operated by Deutsche
Welle, we anticipate large area coverage in almost FM quality without
interference such as jitters, induced power-noise or fading", the General
Director stated. At the same time, not only stationery indoor reception, but
also mobile reception in cars and with small portable devices is
possible...(snip).....
Mike Cronk stated that the BBC had invested heavily in DRM and that they
were now developing "a detailed strategy for its initial deployment,
probably into Europe, in 2005". According to Cronk, DRM offered the unique
combination of wide area short-wave coverage and FM usability and quality.
As a consequence of using this digital medium, continuous direct delivery to
the audience avoiding "political or other regulatory obstacles" will be
possible...(snip)....

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Well I doubt its bull****, these are the "big guns" talking not some two bit
ham

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Mike Terry wrote:

Monday, 25 October 2004

"Digital short-wave will revolutionise cross-border broadcasts and will
initiate a world-wide renaissance of radio". This was the opinion of the
Director General of Deutsche Welle, Mr Erik Bettermann, during a panel
discussion at Münchner Medientage.

Bettermann, the head of the German international broadcaster - and
instigator of the event - was not the only one to present an optimistic
prediction of a "Digital Global Radio" development: The other panel
specialists also emphasised the advantages of digitalisation in the
so-called AM range, i.e. short-, medium- and long-wave.

The discussion was chaired by Peter Senger, Director of Distribution at
Deutsche Welle and Chairman of the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)
Consortium;
and next to Erik Bettermann, BBC representative Mike Cronk, Dan D'Aversa
of
RTL Group and Phil Laven of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) were
also
participating in the debate.

Senger outlined the advantages of digital short-wave as follows: The
world-wide accepted DRM standard provided an excellent audio-quality
comparable to FM. In addition, the search for frequencies was obsolete,
as
the station identification tuned in to the designated frequency and
automatically switched to the best one. In parallel, it allows for the
sending of accompanying programme information such as text messages.

"On top of everything, digital transmission technology saves a lot of
energy
and costs compared to the analogue one", Senger said. This would open up
enormous opportunities, especially for international broadcasters.

For several years, DW - like many other broadcasters - has noted that
listeners migrated from short-wave to FM or other new distribution
channels
in digital quality, said Bettermann. Deutsche Welle had to stay abreast
of
these changes. "According to test transmissions being operated by
Deutsche
Welle, we anticipate large area coverage in almost FM quality without
interference such as jitters, induced power-noise or fading", the
General
Director stated. At the same time, not only stationery indoor reception,
but
also mobile reception in cars and with small portable devices is
possible...(snip).....
Mike Cronk stated that the BBC had invested heavily in DRM and that they
were now developing "a detailed strategy for its initial deployment,
probably into Europe, in 2005". According to Cronk, DRM offered the
unique
combination of wide area short-wave coverage and FM usability and
quality.
As a consequence of using this digital medium, continuous direct
delivery to
the audience avoiding "political or other regulatory obstacles" will be
possible...(snip)....

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Richard wrote:

Well I doubt its bull****, these are the "big guns" talking not some two bit
ham

two bit?



"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Mike Terry wrote:

Monday, 25 October 2004

"Digital short-wave will revolutionise cross-border broadcasts and will
initiate a world-wide renaissance of radio". This was the opinion of the
Director General of Deutsche Welle, Mr Erik Bettermann, during a panel
discussion at Münchner Medientage.

Bettermann, the head of the German international broadcaster - and
instigator of the event - was not the only one to present an optimistic
prediction of a "Digital Global Radio" development: The other panel
specialists also emphasised the advantages of digitalisation in the
so-called AM range, i.e. short-, medium- and long-wave.

The discussion was chaired by Peter Senger, Director of Distribution at
Deutsche Welle and Chairman of the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)
Consortium;
and next to Erik Bettermann, BBC representative Mike Cronk, Dan D'Aversa
of
RTL Group and Phil Laven of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) were
also
participating in the debate.

Senger outlined the advantages of digital short-wave as follows: The
world-wide accepted DRM standard provided an excellent audio-quality
comparable to FM. In addition, the search for frequencies was obsolete,
as
the station identification tuned in to the designated frequency and
automatically switched to the best one. In parallel, it allows for the
sending of accompanying programme information such as text messages.

"On top of everything, digital transmission technology saves a lot of
energy
and costs compared to the analogue one", Senger said. This would open up
enormous opportunities, especially for international broadcasters.

For several years, DW - like many other broadcasters - has noted that
listeners migrated from short-wave to FM or other new distribution
channels
in digital quality, said Bettermann. Deutsche Welle had to stay abreast
of
these changes. "According to test transmissions being operated by
Deutsche
Welle, we anticipate large area coverage in almost FM quality without
interference such as jitters, induced power-noise or fading", the
General
Director stated. At the same time, not only stationery indoor reception,
but
also mobile reception in cars and with small portable devices is
possible...(snip).....
Mike Cronk stated that the BBC had invested heavily in DRM and that they
were now developing "a detailed strategy for its initial deployment,
probably into Europe, in 2005". According to Cronk, DRM offered the
unique
combination of wide area short-wave coverage and FM usability and
quality.
As a consequence of using this digital medium, continuous direct
delivery to
the audience avoiding "political or other regulatory obstacles" will be
possible...(snip)....

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

two bit?

I can't tell? Is he for or against it?

P.S. I've never seen a 25c ham.


--
73 and good DXing.
Brian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A lot of radios and 100' of rusty wire!
Zumbrota, Southern MN
Brian's Radio Universe
http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Richard wrote:

Well I doubt its bull****, these are the "big guns" talking not some two
bit
ham

two bit?


I can't tell? Is he for or against it?

P.S. I've never seen a 25c ham.


--
73 and good DXing.
Brian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A lot of radios and 100' of rusty wire!
Zumbrota, Southern MN
Brian's Radio Universe
http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/

Brian Hill wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

two bit?

I can't tell? Is he for or against it?

P.S. I've never seen a 25c ham.

I think those may have been available in a can at the $ Store.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

HDTV is G R O W I N G ! ! !

- and I think Digital SWR is well worth the effort involved in trying it out;
Prices will come down once it's widely accepted;


In article , "Richard"
writes:

Subject: "Digital SW will revolutionise cross-border Radio"
From: "Richard"
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:08:56 +0200

Yeah its going to be really interesting to watch developments over the next
few years. Either it will revolutiionize SW or else it will flop like HDTV
did.

I wonder what the implications for SW DXing are - will it be a hobby that
fades into hisotyr like listning to a crystal raifo 100 years ago?

Richad, Warsaw

PS nice to you on a postive note Mike! Stay away from UK amateur radio ng
"Mike Terry" wrote in message
...
Monday, 25 October 2004

"Digital short-wave will revolutionise cross-border broadcasts and will
initiate a world-wide renaissance of radio". This was the opinion of the
Director General of Deutsche Welle, Mr Erik Bettermann, during a panel
discussion at Münchner Medientage.

Bettermann, the head of the German international broadcaster - and
instigator of the event - was not the only one to present an optimistic
prediction of a "Digital Global Radio" development: The other panel
specialists also emphasised the advantages of digitalisation in the
so-called AM range, i.e. short-, medium- and long-wave.

The discussion was chaired by Peter Senger, Director of Distribution at
Deutsche Welle and Chairman of the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)
Consortium;
and next to Erik Bettermann, BBC representative Mike Cronk, Dan D'Aversa
of
RTL Group and Phil Laven of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) were
also
participating in the debate.

Senger outlined the advantages of digital short-wave as follows: The
world-wide accepted DRM standard provided an excellent audio-quality
comparable to FM. In addition, the search for frequencies was obsolete, as
the station identification tuned in to the designated frequency and
automatically switched to the best one. In parallel, it allows for the
sending of accompanying programme information such as text messages.

"On top of everything, digital transmission technology saves a lot of
energy
and costs compared to the analogue one", Senger said. This would open up
enormous opportunities, especially for international broadcasters.

For several years, DW - like many other broadcasters - has noted that
listeners migrated from short-wave to FM or other new distribution
channels
in digital quality, said Bettermann. Deutsche Welle had to stay abreast of
these changes. "According to test transmissions being operated by Deutsche
Welle, we anticipate large area coverage in almost FM quality without
interference such as jitters, induced power-noise or fading", the General
Director stated. At the same time, not only stationery indoor reception,
but
also mobile reception in cars and with small portable devices is
possible...(snip).....
Mike Cronk stated that the BBC had invested heavily in DRM and that they
were now developing "a detailed strategy for its initial deployment,
probably into Europe, in 2005". According to Cronk, DRM offered the unique
combination of wide area short-wave coverage and FM usability and quality.
As a consequence of using this digital medium, continuous direct delivery
to
the audience avoiding "political or other regulatory obstacles" will be
possible...(snip)....


(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

"dxAce" wrote in message ...

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

For you, maybe. However this could rejuvenate these bands for mainstream use,
instead of them being increasingly relegated to small pockets of niche users,
which will eventually see all major broadcasters dumping SW if left unchanged.


Az.

Aztech wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message ...

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

For you, maybe. However this could rejuvenate these bands for mainstream use,
instead of them being increasingly relegated to small pockets of niche users,
which will eventually see all major broadcasters dumping SW if left unchanged.

I rather doubt that the 'mainstream' will ever gravitate back to shortwave.

Keep dreaming though.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Mike Terry wrote:

Monday, 25 October 2004

"Digital short-wave will revolutionise cross-border broadcasts and will
initiate a world-wide renaissance of radio". This was the opinion of the
Director General of Deutsche Welle, Mr Erik Bettermann, during a panel
discussion at Münchner Medientage.

Bettermann, the head of the German international broadcaster - and
instigator of the event - was not the only one to present an optimistic
prediction of a "Digital Global Radio" development: The other panel
specialists also emphasised the advantages of digitalisation in the
so-called AM range, i.e. short-, medium- and long-wave.

The discussion was chaired by Peter Senger, Director of Distribution at
Deutsche Welle and Chairman of the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)
Consortium;
and next to Erik Bettermann, BBC representative Mike Cronk, Dan D'Aversa
of
RTL Group and Phil Laven of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) were
also
participating in the debate.

Senger outlined the advantages of digital short-wave as follows: The
world-wide accepted DRM standard provided an excellent audio-quality
comparable to FM. In addition, the search for frequencies was obsolete,
as
the station identification tuned in to the designated frequency and
automatically switched to the best one. In parallel, it allows for the
sending of accompanying programme information such as text messages.

"On top of everything, digital transmission technology saves a lot of
energy
and costs compared to the analogue one", Senger said. This would open up
enormous opportunities, especially for international broadcasters.

For several years, DW - like many other broadcasters - has noted that
listeners migrated from short-wave to FM or other new distribution
channels
in digital quality, said Bettermann. Deutsche Welle had to stay abreast
of
these changes. "According to test transmissions being operated by
Deutsche
Welle, we anticipate large area coverage in almost FM quality without
interference such as jitters, induced power-noise or fading", the General
Director stated. At the same time, not only stationery indoor reception,
but
also mobile reception in cars and with small portable devices is
possible...(snip).....
Mike Cronk stated that the BBC had invested heavily in DRM and that they
were now developing "a detailed strategy for its initial deployment,
probably into Europe, in 2005". According to Cronk, DRM offered the
unique
combination of wide area short-wave coverage and FM usability and
quality.
As a consequence of using this digital medium, continuous direct delivery
to
the audience avoiding "political or other regulatory obstacles" will be
possible...(snip)....

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

dxAce
Michigan
USA


Hmmm - just like IBOC is 'QRM' for FM reception?

SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for the
benefit of amateur DXers.

DRM lets the intended listeners actually hear those programs clearly, and
tune them in easily. It sounds like you don't like it cause it sounds like
noise on your (probably highly expensive) set-up, and you like the tuning
process to be as difficult as possible.

Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.

Colin wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Mike Terry wrote:

Monday, 25 October 2004

"Digital short-wave will revolutionise cross-border broadcasts and will
initiate a world-wide renaissance of radio". This was the opinion of the
Director General of Deutsche Welle, Mr Erik Bettermann, during a panel
discussion at Münchner Medientage.

Bettermann, the head of the German international broadcaster - and
instigator of the event - was not the only one to present an optimistic
prediction of a "Digital Global Radio" development: The other panel
specialists also emphasised the advantages of digitalisation in the
so-called AM range, i.e. short-, medium- and long-wave.

The discussion was chaired by Peter Senger, Director of Distribution at
Deutsche Welle and Chairman of the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)
Consortium;
and next to Erik Bettermann, BBC representative Mike Cronk, Dan D'Aversa
of
RTL Group and Phil Laven of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) were
also
participating in the debate.

Senger outlined the advantages of digital short-wave as follows: The
world-wide accepted DRM standard provided an excellent audio-quality
comparable to FM. In addition, the search for frequencies was obsolete,
as
the station identification tuned in to the designated frequency and
automatically switched to the best one. In parallel, it allows for the
sending of accompanying programme information such as text messages.

"On top of everything, digital transmission technology saves a lot of
energy
and costs compared to the analogue one", Senger said. This would open up
enormous opportunities, especially for international broadcasters.

For several years, DW - like many other broadcasters - has noted that
listeners migrated from short-wave to FM or other new distribution
channels
in digital quality, said Bettermann. Deutsche Welle had to stay abreast
of
these changes. "According to test transmissions being operated by
Deutsche
Welle, we anticipate large area coverage in almost FM quality without
interference such as jitters, induced power-noise or fading", the General
Director stated. At the same time, not only stationery indoor reception,
but
also mobile reception in cars and with small portable devices is
possible...(snip).....
Mike Cronk stated that the BBC had invested heavily in DRM and that they
were now developing "a detailed strategy for its initial deployment,
probably into Europe, in 2005". According to Cronk, DRM offered the
unique
combination of wide area short-wave coverage and FM usability and
quality.
As a consequence of using this digital medium, continuous direct delivery
to
the audience avoiding "political or other regulatory obstacles" will be
possible...(snip)....

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

dxAce
Michigan
USA


Hmmm - just like IBOC is 'QRM' for FM reception?

SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for the
benefit of amateur DXers.

DRM lets the intended listeners actually hear those programs clearly, and
tune them in easily. It sounds like you don't like it cause it sounds like
noise on your (probably highly expensive) set-up, and you like the tuning
process to be as difficult as possible.

Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.

No two ways about it, DRM = QRM... there is no way around it.

If you want crystal clear fidelity I suggest you get yourself a nice FM set.

All I can say is die DRM, die.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"dxAce" wrote in message ...


Aztech wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

For you, maybe. However this could rejuvenate these bands for mainstream use,
instead of them being increasingly relegated to small pockets of niche users,
which will eventually see all major broadcasters dumping SW if left
unchanged.

I rather doubt that the 'mainstream' will ever gravitate back to shortwave.

You might be surprised, if they bring out usable sets with combined DAB/DRM that
can pluck signals from Band-III, FM, SW, LW, MW based on station titles totally
abstracted from frequencies, you might find people listening to SW without them
even being aware of it.

Keep dreaming though.

Anything is better than the current nightmare of a dying medium with little else
to offer but propaganda stations from curious parts of the world, firebrands
reciting scripture and others reciting Pi.


Az.

Aztech wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message ...


Aztech wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

For you, maybe. However this could rejuvenate these bands for mainstream use,
instead of them being increasingly relegated to small pockets of niche users,
which will eventually see all major broadcasters dumping SW if left
unchanged.

I rather doubt that the 'mainstream' will ever gravitate back to shortwave.

You might be surprised, if they bring out usable sets with combined DAB/DRM that
can pluck signals from Band-III, FM, SW, LW, MW based on station titles totally
abstracted from frequencies, you might find people listening to SW without them
even being aware of it.

Keep dreaming though.

Anything is better than the current nightmare of a dying medium with little else
to offer but propaganda stations from curious parts of the world, firebrands
reciting scripture and others reciting Pi.

And you think that with DRM you'll get something better?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"dxAce" wrote in message ...

Anything is better than the current nightmare of a dying medium with little
else
to offer but propaganda stations from curious parts of the world, firebrands
reciting scripture and others reciting Pi.

And you think that with DRM you'll get something better?

Certainly can't be any worse than the current predicament.


Az.

Aztech wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message ...

Anything is better than the current nightmare of a dying medium with little
else
to offer but propaganda stations from curious parts of the world, firebrands
reciting scripture and others reciting Pi.

And you think that with DRM you'll get something better?

Certainly can't be any worse than the current predicament.

Some folks don't necessarily consider it a 'predicament'.

Get yourself a nice FM radio or an XM or Sirius setup.

Be happy, and don't screw up someone else's spectrum.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"Colin" wrote in message
...
Hmmm - just like IBOC is 'QRM' for FM reception?

SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for the
benefit of amateur DXers.

DRM lets the intended listeners actually hear those programs clearly, and
tune them in easily. It sounds like you don't like it cause it sounds like
noise on your (probably highly expensive) set-up, and you like the tuning
process to be as difficult as possible.

Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.


Perhaps you will tell us how the intended audiences of most shortwave
programming will be able to obtain these DRM receivers? Since most of these
broadcasts are intended for audiences outside their own countries, and for
other than their own expatriots (e.g. third world or oppressed populations),
those audiences are not likely to be able to afford (even if they could
obtain) such radios. Ordinary AM shortwave could be received with nothing
more than a few meters of wire, a variable capacitor (and even a fixed one
will work, depending upon design), a diode and an earphone. Reception of DRM
requires technology that is not available to much of the world.

"dxAce" wrote in message ...

Some folks don't necessarily consider it a 'predicament'.

Get yourself a nice FM radio or an XM or Sirius setup.

Be happy, and don't screw up someone else's spectrum.

It's not a matter of me, the broadcasters are perfectly entitled to 'screw up'
their own spectrum, be that with an new ITU approved system for example.

Do you seriously believe they'll be anything left to screw up if left on its
current course?

The broadcasters, who are the ones' that have to spend money remember, have
certainly identified with this 'predicament' over many years. How much fun will
your DX efforts be if nobody bothers to broadcast anymore? Granted, there will
always be those to draw a sadistic pleasure from eeking out the last signal
broadcast the other side of the world.

Unfortunately you can't support a system that is broadcasting to a few hobbyists
who are more interested in the medium not the message

One would imagine you'd appreciate something new to DX.


Az.

In article ,
"Colin" wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Snip Mike Terry BS

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

dxAce
Michigan
USA


Hmmm - just like IBOC is 'QRM' for FM reception?

SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for the
benefit of amateur DXers.

I'm a program listener and I don't want it.

DRM lets the intended listeners actually hear those programs clearly, and
tune them in easily. It sounds like you don't like it cause it sounds like
noise on your (probably highly expensive) set-up, and you like the tuning
process to be as difficult as possible.

This is DRM propaganda.

Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.

Baloney.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
"Aztech" wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

(See more in a long article at
http://ukradio.com/news/articles/E69...A75DE7F8A5.asp )

Bull****... it's just QRM

For you, maybe.

Snip

For me too.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote:

| SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for
the
| benefit of amateur DXers.
|
| I'm a program listener and I don't want it.
|
| DRM lets the intended listeners actually hear those programs clearly,
and
| tune them in easily. It sounds like you don't like it cause it sounds
like
| noise on your (probably highly expensive) set-up, and you like the
tuning
| process to be as difficult as possible.
|
| This is DRM propaganda.
|
| Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during the
| transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
| international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.
|
| Baloney.

Precisely. The simple fact is, the slick salesmen haven't found a way to
get around
the laws of physics, quite yet. They have, however, found a great new
"income
channel," an income channel which allows the "account executives" to
"maximize
ROI," or some such. But, in one word (baloney), you managed to capture the
bottom line.

73,

Steve Lawrence
KAØPMD
Burnsville, Minnesota

"If a man wants his dreams to come true then he must wake up."
- Anonymous


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/04

"Richard" wrote in message ...
Yeah its going to be really interesting to watch developments over the next
few years. Either it will revolutiionize SW or else it will flop like HDTV
did.

I wonder what the implications for SW DXing are - will it be a hobby that
fades into hisotyr like listning to a crystal raifo 100 years ago?

If it takes off, wouldn't it open up new DXing possibilities? At least
for those who are interested in new challenges.

With careful signal averaging or processing, it may (for example) be
possible to pull a station ID out of the DRM stream in reception
conditions where even the existence of a station would be doubtful
now.

However, the worries about DRM availability in oppressive regimes etc
are quite justified. Yet, if it means a traveller can receive BBC
World Service etc without hassle across the globe, it's worth having.
At least for travellers who don't take laptops with them, and/or go to
places without internet connections.

Cheers,
David.

David Robinson wrote:

"Richard" wrote in message ...
Yeah its going to be really interesting to watch developments over the next
few years. Either it will revolutiionize SW or else it will flop like HDTV
did.

I wonder what the implications for SW DXing are - will it be a hobby that
fades into hisotyr like listning to a crystal raifo 100 years ago?

If it takes off, wouldn't it open up new DXing possibilities? At least
for those who are interested in new challenges.

With careful signal averaging or processing, it may (for example) be
possible to pull a station ID out of the DRM stream in reception
conditions where even the existence of a station would be doubtful
now.

The power required for efficient DRM transmission kind of precludes it from being 'DX'... And if
you think that governments who can barely keep an ordinary station on shortwave are suddenly
going to embrace DRM and toss a lot of money into it you are sadly mistaken.

Also, it would seem that shortwave is used a lot these days to broadcast information to third
world countries and the folks in those areas probably don't have a lot of funds to put into the
purchase of new receiving sets.

It really seems to me that DRM is being embraced by a certain 'clique' in Europe, and for the
life of me I can't really understand why.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

From: "dxAce"

Richard wrote:

Well I doubt its bull****, these are the "big guns" talking not some two
bit
ham

two bit?


Binary..

In message
Walt Davidson wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:54:38 +0100, "Colin"
wrote:

SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for the
benefit of amateur DXers.

I would venture to suggest that more than 90% of listeners to
shortwave broadcasting are "amateur DXers". Normal people do not even
know what shortwave is, far less listen to it.

That's probably true now of Western Europe and the US, but not
everyone lives in Western Europe or the US.

--
Richard L.

"Colin" wrote in message
...


Hmmm - just like IBOC is 'QRM' for FM reception?

IBOC sure is QRM for AM reception!


SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for the
benefit of amateur DXers.

So why have so many countries been defunding international broadcasting?
Could it be they think international broadcasting is a waste of money? Why
would clearer signals make it less of a waste? If the programming is worth
hearing, the listener will put up with occasional distortion and fading.



DRM lets the intended listeners actually hear those programs clearly, and
tune them in easily. It sounds like you don't like it cause it sounds like
noise on your (probably highly expensive) set-up, and you like the tuning
process to be as difficult as possible.

International broadcating is boring, and bored listeners are tuning out.
DRM won't fix that. The internet is a much better source for news. End
time preachers and conspiranoics are much more fun to listen to.



Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.


Satellite radio does every thing DRM promises.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:

"Colin" wrote in message
...


Hmmm - just like IBOC is 'QRM' for FM reception?

IBOC sure is QRM for AM reception!


SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for the
benefit of amateur DXers.

So why have so many countries been defunding international broadcasting?
Could it be they think international broadcasting is a waste of money? Why
would clearer signals make it less of a waste? If the programming is worth
hearing, the listener will put up with occasional distortion and fading.


DRM lets the intended listeners actually hear those programs clearly, and
tune them in easily. It sounds like you don't like it cause it sounds like
noise on your (probably highly expensive) set-up, and you like the tuning
process to be as difficult as possible.

International broadcating is boring, and bored listeners are tuning out.
DRM won't fix that. The internet is a much better source for news. End
time preachers and conspiranoics are much more fun to listen to.


Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.


Satellite radio does every thing DRM promises.

Yes it does, and it doesn't make a mess of the shortwave spectrum.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"Richard" wrote in message
...
Yeah its going to be really interesting to watch developments over the
next
few years. Either it will revolutiionize SW or else it will flop like HDTV
did.

I wonder what the implications for SW DXing are - will it be a hobby that
fades into hisotyr like listning to a crystal raifo 100 years ago?

Richad, Warsaw


Getting the international broadcasters off the air would be the best thing
possible for the SW hobby.

There isn't much usable bandwith on SW, at least as compared with VHF and
UHF, and SW propagation is inconsistant and not fully predictable. Most of
the SW utility transmissions have moved to satellites. It's not 1950
anymore, and the SW bands don't have nearly the economic importance they had
then.

But, while SW's quirks make it unattactive for 100% reliable communication,
those quirks make SW a playground for the radio hobbyist. Radio amateurs
have been playing with SW for decades, and there has been a boom in pirate
radio in the last ten years or so. As soon as governments lose interest in
SW, the amateurs and pirates will have SW all to themselves.

Of course, governments can't be entirely disinterested in SW. There is a
need for military and emergency communications on SW. And out of band
interference must be controlled. But I'm convinced hobby broadcasting will
flourish long after the last international broadcaster turns off the switch.

Frank Dresser

In article , dxAce wrote:
The power required for efficient DRM transmission kind of precludes it
from being 'DX'... And if
you think that governments who can barely keep an ordinary station on
shortwave are suddenly
going to embrace DRM and toss a lot of money into it you are sadly mistaken.

Also, it would seem that shortwave is used a lot these days to broadcast
information to third
world countries and the folks in those areas probably don't have a lot
of funds to put into the
purchase of new receiving sets.

It really seems to me that DRM is being embraced by a certain 'clique'
in Europe, and for the
life of me I can't really understand why.

I think that using it, like a recent posting about Radio New Zealand,
as a Poor Man's Satelllite for regional program distribution for
rebroadcasting on local stations makes a lot of sense.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:54:38 +0100, "Colin"
wrote:

SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs, not for the
benefit of amateur DXers.

I would venture to suggest that more than 90% of listeners to
shortwave broadcasting are "amateur DXers". Normal people do not even
know what shortwave is, far less listen to it.

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

That is SUCH an US-centric response. Just because Americans don't use it
doesn't mean other parts of the world don't.

Do you think people living in Middle Eastern, South American, Asian or
African countries know what Shortwave is?

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message news:UEsfd.775299

Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.


Satellite radio does every thing DRM promises.

.... if you're in the US, which doesn't include 95% of the world.


Az.

"Aztech" wrote in message
...
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
news:UEsfd.775299

Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during
the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.


Satellite radio does every thing DRM promises.

... if you're in the US, which doesn't include 95% of the world.



The rest of the world has their own satellite radio service(s). The name
escapes me at the moment, but there is one service that covers most of the
(non-US) world in several regions.

I reiterate however, that people in third world and oppressive countries
will not have access/not be able to afford the receivers for either this or
DRM.

"Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote in message
...

"Aztech" wrote in message
...
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
news:UEsfd.775299

Yes, without co-ordination there may be interefernce problems during
the
transmition period, but the sooner the world goes DRM the better
international radio broadcastings prospects IMHO.


Satellite radio does every thing DRM promises.

... if you're in the US, which doesn't include 95% of the world.



The rest of the world has their own satellite radio service(s). The name
escapes me at the moment, but there is one service that covers most of the
(non-US) world in several regions.

Worldspace, quite a proportion of its output now seems to be encrypted and aimed
at Western travellers.

I reiterate however, that people in third world and oppressive countries
will not have access/not be able to afford the receivers for either this or
DRM.

Of course that reasoning also renders Worldspace redundant.


Az.

In article , Walt Davidson
writes
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:19:30 GMT, "Aztech" wrote:

Of course that reasoning also renders Worldspace redundant.

Worldspace rendered itself redundant the day it started charging a
subscription for its services. How many of the population in
undeveloped third world countries are going to pay $$$ to listen to a
handful of foreign radio stations?

Probably enough skilled people living and working in the capital cities
often for foreign companies on foreign salaries. It's the people outside
this category who can not afford it, but since they did not pay before
what have Worldspace lost? You also need to consider how many people in
a third world country could afford to buy a ~100 GBP radio.

--
Ian G8ILZ

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
In article , Walt Davidson
writes
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:19:30 GMT, "Aztech" wrote:

Of course that reasoning also renders Worldspace redundant.

Worldspace rendered itself redundant the day it started charging a
subscription for its services. How many of the population in
undeveloped third world countries are going to pay $$$ to listen to a
handful of foreign radio stations?

Probably enough skilled people living and working in the capital cities
often for foreign companies on foreign salaries. It's the people outside
this category who can not afford it, but since they did not pay before
what have Worldspace lost? You also need to consider how many people in a
third world country could afford to buy a ~100 GBP radio.

--
Ian G8ILZ

Of course poor people will not buy 100 GBP radios, or even $100 radios. And
they certainly won't be able to justify a regular subscription.

I don't think anyone is expecting the 'huddled masses' to be amongst the
first purchasers of DRM radios.

But as with all new technology the price comes down rapidly. My DAB tuner
cost me GBP 350 3 years ago - I saw a DAB radio in the supermarket tonight
for GBP 49, and a DVB adapter for GBP 25. You'd be lucky to get an analogue
SW receiver for GBP 25.

From the examples I have heard DRM is a step change in reception for
international broadcasting and, eventually, LF & MF broadcasting. If you
want any form of viable broadcasting to remain in these bands DRM is
certainly a better option than the status quo which will continue to
dwindle.

Frank Dresser wrote:

"Colin" wrote in message
...

Hmmm - just like IBOC is 'QRM' for FM reception?
IBOC sure is QRM for AM reception!


SW broadcasting is funded so that listeners can hear programs,
not for the benefit of amateur DXers.

So why have so many countries been defunding international
broadcasting?
Could it be they think international broadcasting is a waste of
money? Why
would clearer signals make it less of a waste? If the
programming is worth
hearing, the listener will put up with occasional distortion
and fading.
-------------
Countries are finding that none of their
nationals are listening, Germans not listening
to DW, Brits not listening to BBCWS etc.
So the most important self-market is lost.
Only countries wise in diplomacy know that a
constant SW presence in the vernacular languages
(Pashto to Afghanistan, Spanish to the Aamericas, etc.)
will be useful in the future influence (rising incomes,
desire to buy quality imported goods, friendly to military
occupiers, etc. etc.)
Shortwave is a cheap fifth column for multiple externalities.


DRM lets the intended listeners actually hear those programs
clearly, and tune them in easily. It sounds like you don't like
it cause it sounds like noise on your (probably highly
expensive) set-up, and you like the tuning process to be as
difficult as possible.

International broadcating is boring, and bored listeners are
tuning out.
DRM won't fix that. The internet is a much better source for
news. End time preachers and conspiranoics are much more fun to
listen to.



Satellite radio does every thing DRM promises.

Frank Dresser

--
-\_,-~-\___...__._._._._._._._._._._._.
For real Dxing,
see]http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~vz6g-iwt/index.html

Prometheus wrote:

In article , Walt
Davidson writes
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:19:30 GMT, "Aztech" wrote:

Of course that reasoning also renders Worldspace redundant.

Worldspace rendered itself redundant the day it started charging
a
subscription for its services. How many of the population in
undeveloped third world countries are going to pay $$$ to listen
to a handful of foreign radio stations?

Probably enough skilled people living and working in the capital
cities often for foreign companies on foreign salaries. It's the
people outside this category who can not afford it, but since
they did not pay before what have Worldspace lost? You also need
to consider how many people in a third world country could
afford to buy a ~100 GBP radio.
--------------
I was just in Nigeria where only the 10 or 20 dollars (USD)
Chinese radios are used. There are Sony's sold, but
Worldspace radios are very uncommon, and a friend only
got one as a prixe in a RFI contest, but otherwise couldn't
spend that kind of money for a radio.
Shortwave there had everything, from the Middle East, Europe
and Ascension, much of it for several hours of programming.
Worldspace is an idea, but in practice little used.
And my friend fried their radio so that they could only
use the earphones as the speaker circuit didn't work for
WorldSpace, and they moved every four months for economic
reasons and not every place was suitable for setting out the
WorldSpace without getting it ripped off.
--
-\_,-~-\___...__._._._._._._._._._._._.
For real Dxing,
see]http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~vz6g-iwt/index.html

In article , Colin
writes

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
In article , Walt
Davidson writes
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:19:30 GMT, "Aztech" wrote:

Of course that reasoning also renders Worldspace redundant.

Worldspace rendered itself redundant the day it started charging a
subscription for its services. How many of the population in
undeveloped third world countries are going to pay $$$ to listen to a
handful of foreign radio stations?

Probably enough skilled people living and working in the capital
cities often for foreign companies on foreign salaries. It's the
people outside this category who can not afford it, but since they
did not pay before what have Worldspace lost? You also need to
consider how many people in a third world country could afford to buy
a ~100 GBP radio.

Of course poor people will not buy 100 GBP radios, or even $100 radios.
And they certainly won't be able to justify a regular subscription.

Where the national average wage is equivalent to 2.5 GBP per day you
will find very few people will purchase a radio costing 100 GBP. You
might assume that with lower overheads the retail price might be lower
but the much smaller market could negate that effect.

I don't think anyone is expecting the 'huddled masses' to be amongst
the first purchasers of DRM radios.

The huddled masses lack the disposable income, and frequently have a low
expectation as a consequence.

But as with all new technology the price comes down rapidly. My DAB
tuner cost me GBP 350 3 years ago - I saw a DAB radio in the
supermarket tonight for GBP 49, and a DVB adapter for GBP 25. You'd be
lucky to get an analogue SW receiver for GBP 25.

I am not considering the price as new technology but once established,
DAB radios have prices from 50 to over 100 GBP. I am not sure that sails
will be large enough for anyone will build for the third world, and even
at 50 GBP it is still 20 days work. This is equivalent to a person in te
UK earning 12,000 GBP per year spending 1000 GBP on a radio; few could
spare that after the essentials of living.

From the examples I have heard DRM is a step change in reception for
international broadcasting and, eventually, LF & MF broadcasting. If
you want any form of viable broadcasting to remain in these bands DRM
is certainly a better option than the status quo which will continue to
dwindle.

Who broadcasts on short-wave, and why: Government information (and
propaganda) both to their own people and abroad. Very little is
commercial in nature, it is mostly for diplomatic representation.
--
Ian G8ILZ

Kristoff Bonne wrote:

Gegroet,

Brenda Ann Dyer schreef:
I reiterate however, that people in third world and oppressive countries
will not have access/not be able to afford the receivers for either this or
DRM.

On the contrairy. DRM is the ideal way for oppressive regimes to
manufactor receivers that can only pick up the stations you want to
people to be able to listen to.
(based on the station-id, not only the frequency)

Well there ya go... another good reason to toss DRM into the bin.

dxAce
Michigan
USA



China has (IIRC) several hunderd MG transmittors all over the country
and is one biggest "pushers" for DRM.

Part of it might be because of the savings in transmissions-power; but I
think the possibility of "control" mechanism which are possible in DRM
radio-sets are also to "some" appeal to the Chinese gouvernement. :-)

BTW. Once China begins manufactoring DRM radio-sets en-masse, it will
not be a great surprise for the to pop-up in the "third world" countries
you mention.

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
--
Kristoff Bonne, Bredene, BEL
VoIP: h323://krbonne.homelinux.net/
[nl] [fr] [en] [de]