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A Tribute to the Bible
Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's
Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. AS A LITERARY COMPOSITION, the Bible is the most remarkable book ever made. It is a divine library of 66 books, some of considerable size, and others no larger than a tract. THESE BOOKS INCLUDE various forms of literature - history, biography, poetry, proverbial sayings, hymns, letters, directions for elaborate ritualistic worship, laws, parables, riddles, allegories, prophecy, drama, and others. They embrace all manner of literary styles in human expression. IT IS THE BOOK THAT REVEALS the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts binding, its histories true, and its decisions immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. The Bible contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter. Here heaven is opened, and the gates of hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good is its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill your memory, rule your heart, and guide your feet in righteousness and true holiness. Read it slowly, frequently, prayerfully, meditatively, searchingly, devotionally, and study it constantly, perseveringly, and industriously. Read it through and through until it becomes part of your being and generates faith that will move mountains. The Bible is a mine of wealth, the source of health, and a world of pleasure. It is given to you in this life, will be opened at the judgment, and will stand forever. It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the least to the greatest of labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents. |
"Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. That means absolutely nothing, and the same claims could be made by any other holy book. And written in the most simple human language possible? What hyperbole! It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. Having a word for "sphere" or "globe", etc. for example would have made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. |
Honus wrote:
"Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible s n i p It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. You'd better be careful, Honus. Comments like that will get you LABELED as ANTI-SEMITIC ! Wasn't most of it written in HEBREW? :-) I can see the headlines now, HONUS, ANTI-SEMITIC |
"Honus" wrote in message news:H4TSd.54284$uc.1254@trnddc04... "Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. That means absolutely nothing, and the same claims could be made by any other holy book. And written in the most simple human language possible? What hyperbole! It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. Having a word for "sphere" or "globe", etc. for example would have made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. I have to disagree. The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. As for the "almah" "debate", the writers of the Septuagint clearly understood the meaning of the Hebrew and translated it with the Greek word for "virgin". That argument is pretty much closed. As for "subsets" of Christianity, more properly called denominations, that has nothing to do with disobeying the Bible at all. It has to do with interpretation. Different verses can be understood in different ways. Sometimes our lack of ability to clearly translate an ancient language into our own lends itself to such differences of interpretation. The prayer of Jabez comes to mind. For you to dismiss the Bible as a mere book just indicates that you don't realize how it has changed peoples lives. If everyone lived by the teachings of Jesus, there would be no hate, no selfishness, no lust, no murder, no theft. You cant say that about any other "holy" book. B |
"Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Honus wrote: It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. You'd better be careful, Honus. Comments like that will get you LABELED as ANTI-SEMITIC ! Wasn't most of it written in HEBREW? :-) I can see the headlines now, HONUS, ANTI-SEMITIC Nice try, but no cigar. I don't think anyone here (including you) is going to seriously accuse me of being an anti-Semite. Come to think of it, that wasn't even a nice try. And my point stands. I see you didn't try to refute it. Smart boy. ;) |
"Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW Go for it Albert ! |
"Brian Oakley" wrote in message ... "Honus" wrote in message news:H4TSd.54284$uc.1254@trnddc04... "Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. That means absolutely nothing, and the same claims could be made by any other holy book. And written in the most simple human language possible? What hyperbole! It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. Having a word for "sphere" or "globe", etc. for example would have made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. I have to disagree. Gosh. I didn't see -that- coming. The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. Of course, you can find -millions- of Muslims that say that it doesn't. And of course, Christians have been killing infidels since Day ****ing One. And saying that the Koran can't work wonders is extraordinarily ignorant. IIRC it's the fastest growing religion in if not the US then the world. Are these people converting because they're craven evil *******s that want to fill their lives with sin? Or is it more likely that they're experienceing the change that you think only comes with Christianity? You know...the one that you're so smugly dismissing? As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. The point is that God could have either selected a better language or made Hebrew more suitable for his purpose. As for the "almah" "debate", the writers of the Septuagint clearly understood the meaning of the Hebrew and translated it with the Greek word for "virgin". That argument is pretty much closed. Wrong. Do some research. I would advise asking Jews what the words mean. It's their language, after all. But you might not like the answer. As for "subsets" of Christianity, more properly called denominations, that has nothing to do with disobeying the Bible at all. It has to do with interpretation. Which wouldn't be an issue if God had "either selected a better language or made Hebrew more suitable for his purpose." I don't need your help...really. Different verses can be understood in different ways. Sometimes our lack of ability to clearly translate an ancient language into our own lends itself to such differences of interpretation. The prayer of Jabez comes to mind. See above. For you to dismiss the Bible as a mere book just indicates that you don't realize how it has changed peoples lives. You don't know me or my background. Do a little research before you make an ass of yourself. If everyone lived by the teachings of Jesus, there would be no hate, no selfishness, no lust, no murder, no theft. You cant say that about any other "holy" book. In other words, no sin. Therefore, it's -impossible- to live as you describe. God says so. You just go on telling yourself that you've got the One True Faith. Nothing I can say is going to change your mind. Do you -really- believe that no other religion teaches morality comparable to yours? Don't answer; I already know what you're going to say. By the way...ever read up on Bhuddists? |
"Al Patrick" wrote in message IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. I can't find anything about Nuclear Physics in mine. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. Somebody poked me in the eye and it says in the bible I have to poke him back, whereas I wanted to forgive him. Oops, I read the wrong bit! -- Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net |
Where's the connection? You quote from A Tribute to the Bible and refer
me to a "documentary" video about a dead preacher! SHAME! throw him off the newsgroup! You KNOW we ALWAYS follow protocol here! ;-) ======== chulacabra wrote: "Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW Go for it Albert ! |
I do need some advice regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them: 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think a fair price would be for her? 3. I know that I am not allowed to contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24) The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a less abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination. 7. Lev. 21:20 sates that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to b e 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10-16) Could we just burn them death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. rj |
"Honus" wrote in message news:VnVSd.54651$uc.2122@trnddc04... "Brian Oakley" wrote in message ... "Honus" wrote in message news:H4TSd.54284$uc.1254@trnddc04... "Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. That means absolutely nothing, and the same claims could be made by any other holy book. And written in the most simple human language possible? What hyperbole! It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. Having a word for "sphere" or "globe", etc. for example would have made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. I have to disagree. Gosh. I didn't see -that- coming. The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. Of course, you can find -millions- of Muslims that say that it doesn't. Well regardless of what they say, thats what it says. Ive read it. And of course, Christians have been killing infidels since Day ****ing One. You dont know your history. Christians have NOT killed unbelievers. The political leaders of the Church may have, but just because someone is a leader doesnt mean they know Christ. And saying that the Koran can't work wonders is extraordinarily ignorant. Only wonders it works is to lead people astray and cause them to hate those who are not muslim. IIRC it's the fastest growing religion in if not the US then the world. Sure it is! Its an easy religion for a sinner to follow! You can hate anyone thats not of your thinking! Are these people converting because they're craven evil *******s that want to fill their lives with sin? See above. Or is it more likely that they're experienceing the change that you think only comes with Christianity? You know...the one that you're so smugly dismissing? Love is not part of Islam. Not even love for their own family. If a family member converts to Christianity, they are in absolute danger of being killed by their own family members. As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. The point is that God could have either selected a better language or made Hebrew more suitable for his purpose. God selected the Hebrew people. If you read the Bible it tells you why. As for their language, I dont believe they had any problems with it. As for the "almah" "debate", the writers of the Septuagint clearly understood the meaning of the Hebrew and translated it with the Greek word for "virgin". That argument is pretty much closed. Wrong. Do some research. I would advise asking Jews what the words mean. It's their language, after all. But you might not like the answer. The Jews that wrote the Septuigint knew what it meant. And they were closer in time to the actually hebrew manuscripts they used to write it. THEY would be the authority of what it means. Not some Jew off the street today. The average Jew here doesnt even speak Hebrew as fluently as they speak english. They dont know ancient Hebrew. That language has changed over they years. There are words in the Bible that they dont even know the definations for. How are they going to translate something they werent even close to? The authority is with the Septuigint. As for "subsets" of Christianity, more properly called denominations, that has nothing to do with disobeying the Bible at all. It has to do with interpretation. Which wouldn't be an issue if God had "either selected a better language or made Hebrew more suitable for his purpose." I don't need your help...really. Have you ever thought about maybe God WANTING there to be different denominations? I guess not. Different verses can be understood in different ways. Sometimes our lack of ability to clearly translate an ancient language into our own lends itself to such differences of interpretation. The prayer of Jabez comes to mind. See above. For you to dismiss the Bible as a mere book just indicates that you don't realize how it has changed peoples lives. You don't know me or my background. Do a little research before you make an ass of yourself. Ad Hominem again. Did you get a good grade in debate school? Oh NO, thats right, you didnt go! If everyone lived by the teachings of Jesus, there would be no hate, no selfishness, no lust, no murder, no theft. You cant say that about any other "holy" book. In other words, no sin. Therefore, it's -impossible- to live as you describe. God says so. That is in contrast with other books. Again you are missing the point or trying to twist the point. Stay on topic. I know how ADD can be though. You just go on telling yourself that you've got the One True Faith. Nothing I can say is going to change your mind. Do you -really- believe that no other religion teaches morality comparable to yours? Don't answer; I already know what you're going to say. By the way...ever read up on Bhuddists? Buddha is dead. In the grave. He was a mere man. With lots of faults. B |
"Simon Mason" wrote in message ... "Al Patrick" wrote in message IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. I can't find anything about Nuclear Physics in mine. But it does teach you the responsability for managing it. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. Somebody poked me in the eye and it says in the bible I have to poke him back, whereas I wanted to forgive him. Oops, I read the wrong bit! You read the old dispenstion, not the new one. I suggest a class in dispensation at your local church. B |
"Brian Oakley" wrote in message ... You read the old dispenstion, not the new one. I suggest a class in dispensation at your local church. Thanks, but I had it rammed down my throat by nuns and priests from the age of 5. Luckily I learned how to think for myself and stop believing in ancient fairy stories, despite the brainwashing. -- Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net |
It is an Elizabthan Mind****er's Handbook. Very useful for oppressing
slaves. |
Simon Mason wrote:
"Al Patrick" wrote in message IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. I can't find anything about Nuclear Physics in mine. A book could be written here, but I'll attempt to keep it to the rough draft of a tract -- which someone else can polish and publish. Do you play a musical instrument? If you do you know the first thing you have to do is TUNE it. If the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? On that little word "if" rests so many of the promises of God to mankind. IF we keep His laws, THEN He will do certain things for us. ELSE .... See, It's a basic computer program statement. IF...THEN...ELSE... You have to get "in tune" to hear and understand some of the things in the Bible. I'll be asking you a few questions along the way. I'm sure you appreciate the warning. :-) Did you know that Jesus Christ occasionally spoke in parables so that men would NOT understand what He was saying? Let's say He was speaking ESoterically to His disciples instead of EXoterically to some EXterior group - those who were not "in tune" with His program and plans. He also mentions those who had ears and didn't hear and others having ears TO HEAR. IF we have ears to hear His Word He'll give us understanding. Did you know that there are 76 drops to a teaspoon? Check it out at http://www.elivermore.com/conversions.htm ...and six teaspoons per fluid ounce? (Bear with me now, I'm going some place, even if I don't know where it is! -- as the Sprint PCS TV commercial used to say before we started talking about the use of cell phones to track us, they'll find you and deliver your phone call to you "even if YOU don't know where you are!") ...16 ounces per pint, 2 pints per quart, etc. Therefore, a peck bucket (that's 10 quarts) would contain 10 quarts times 2 pints per quart times 16 ounces per pint times six teaspoons per ounce times 76 drops per teaspoonful. A formula for drops per bucket could be easily written from the above information. 76 x 6 x 16 x 2 x 10 = Number of drops per 10 quart bucket. That is 145,920 drops per 10 quart bucket -- but God is mighty big and strong and just might be referring, in this allegorical passage, to a VERY LARGE BUCKET. "He's got the whole world in His hands...." POINT: Isaiah 40:15, KJV, "Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing." ALL THE NATIONS, individually or collectively, are as a drop of a bucket in the sight of God. Remember, there are almost 150,000 of them -- IF we're only talking about a 10 quart bucket - one fourth of a bushel! NOW, let's look at what is going to happen to ALL the armies of ALL those nations when Christ returns. Old Slough Foot, Satan, that wicked one, is now in control of the armies of the world and they SEEM all powerful. He could rightly promise Christ all the kingdoms of the world if He'd only bow down and worship Satan. God / Christ had given him that power. He is the prince of this world - right now. This is why so many worship the devil. Remember "The Devil and Daniel Webster" ? People actually are selling their souls to the devil, and he is actually rewarding many of them very generously with this worlds good which will all be burned up! When Christ returns He is going to destroy Satan, and presumably ALL his allies. It's a really "tough" job! :-) Check out Second Thessalonians 2:8, KJV, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" Get that? The Wicked One is going to be DESTROYED -- WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST'S COMING! Nuclear Physics, lasers, etc. won't even compare! ....and all the nations of the world which have gathered to fight against the returning Jesus Christ will be destroyed with him. Nuclear Physics? Check out Zechariah. Zec 14:12, KJV, "And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." Now, THAT sounds like a nuclear blast to me. The flesh melting away while the bones yet stand. Remember the shadows of men etched into the steel girders of bridges in Japan? Yep, their bodies "consumed" part of that powerful blast but the blast also consumed their bodies! Wasn't this AFTER Japan had surrendered? Wasn't this one of the Japanese cities with a very high percentage of Christian in it? Didn't the same thing re-occur just a day or two later with the same or very similar circumstances? Molecular Structure? Colossians, referring to Jesus Christ, says, Col 1:17, "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." And you probably were thinking electrons, protons, nucleus, etc. held things together. What makes up the nucleus of an atom? Protons and Neutrons? Protons, positively charged, "large" particles. Neutrons - approx. same mass as proton, no charge. So, EVERY ATOM has a nucleus with MANY particles that are positively charged and about the same number of chargeless particles; i.e. the nucleus is POSITIVELY CHARGED. Yes, out in orbit some distance from them are some NEGATIVELY CHARGED particles, but the nucleus is, again, POSITIVELY CHARGED. Like charges repel! WHO do you think is keeping those positively charged particles which are all repelling each other FROM E-X-P-L-O-D-I-N-G-? Colossians 1:17 tells us it is by Jesus Christ that ALL THINGS CONSIST. The Amplified amplifies on this a bit - pun intended. Col. 1:17, "And He Himself existed before all things, and in Him all things consist (cohere, are held together)." It also recommends we read Proverbs 8:22-31. So Jesus Christ is HOLDING TOGETHER -- ALL THINGS! ...And yet stupid men would love to "do away" with Christ entirely! Couldn't do it the first time, just played into His hands! Been trying to do it ever since -- those who realize the first "treatment" didn't take! Yet they don't realize that without Christ THEY ARE NOTHING. HE is holding THEM together! How blind can we be? The point is: While the Bible may not use the words nuclear or physics it has MUCH to say about both! I have hardly scratched the surface. SOMEBODY TAKE THIS BALL AND RUN A TOUCHDOWN WITH IT! |
In article ,
Brian Oakley wrote: "Honus" wrote in message news:H4TSd.54284$uc.1254@trnddc04... "Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. That means absolutely nothing, and the same claims could be made by any other holy book. And written in the most simple human language possible? What hyperbole! It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. Having a word for "sphere" or "globe", etc. for example would have made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. I have to disagree. The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it So does the Old Testament if you read the right parts selectively. The problem is fundies, /literalists and people that have an agenda and are using a holy book to justify their ends. A pox on them. The popularly quoted phrase from the Koran that says "kill all the infidels" is taken out of context. The rest of the paragraph says "unless they leave us alone". Nothing wring with that. Read the writings of Karen Armstrong http://www.islamfortoday.com/karenarmstrong.htm and Bernard Lewis http://www.arab2.com/biography/bernard-lewis.htm translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. As for the "almah" "debate", the writers of the Septuagint clearly understood the meaning of the Hebrew and translated it with the Greek word for "virgin". That argument is pretty much closed. As for "subsets" of Christianity, more properly called denominations, that has nothing to do with disobeying the Bible at all. It has to do with interpretation. Different verses can be understood in different ways. Sometimes our lack of ability to clearly translate an ancient language into our own lends itself to such differences of interpretation. The prayer of Jabez comes to mind. For you to dismiss the Bible as a mere book just indicates that you don't realize how it has changed peoples lives. If everyone lived by the teachings of Jesus, there would be no hate, no selfishness, no lust, no murder, no theft. You cant say that about any other "holy" book. B -- a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. |
RJ wrote:
I do need some advice regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them: 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? You don't even own yourself. 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think a fair price would be for her? If she's like her pop she's probably not worth much. Best just give her away. :-) 3. I know that I am not allowed to contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24) The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. You aren't supposed to ask, or know about, "most women" ! 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? Have you been by a good steak house about 6 or 7 PM lately? You need to take one of your neighbors out to supper with you. They'll change their minds about the smell of char-broiled steak! 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? First you need to learn when the Sabbath begins and ends to be sure you aren't following some tradition of men. Are you referring to Lunar Lunacy? The Solar Sabbath? The "legal" day - midnight to midnight? Or are you referring to the Jewish "sabbath" which they claim begins on one day and ends on another; i.e. sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a less abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination. There are 'degrees' of 'rewards' for both good and evil deeds. 7. Lev. 21:20 sates that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to b e 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? You're not a priest. ... At least I surely hope you're not! 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? I suspect your head is already round and ALL your friends are male! Birds of a feather flock together. Why would YOU kill YOUR friends? ;-) 9. I know from Lev. 11:-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? These laws don't apply to some people. They were for GOD'S people to live by! Eat all the swine you like. The trichinosis is FREE! 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10-16) Could we just burn them death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) Just as the previous question. These laws were for a peculiar, separated, chosen, holy people. I doubt they apply at all to YOU. However, you might be surprised how much healthier and happier we'd all be if we did NOT eat genetically engineered foods, wear clothing of different materials or have disobedient children! Think about it! I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. rj |
The nuns and priests might be part of the current problem.
Simon Mason wrote: "Brian Oakley" wrote in message ... You read the old dispenstion, not the new one. I suggest a class in dispensation at your local church. Thanks, but I had it rammed down my throat by nuns and priests from the age of 5. Luckily I learned how to think for myself and stop believing in ancient fairy stories, despite the brainwashing. |
"Al Patrick" wrote in message However, you might be surprised how much healthier and happier we'd all be if we did NOT eat genetically engineered foods, wear clothing of different materials or have disobedient children! Think about it! My granddad ate F1 hybrid tomatoes all his life and it did him no harm. My cycling top is made of man made fibres and is far superior to cotton or wool which just get damp, but what I really want to know is this. One of the ten commandments says thou shall not kill. Last week, I got an infected elbow joint which had bacteria in it. My doctor gave me some antibiotics. Have I committed a mortal sin by killing the bacteria? -- Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net |
"RJ" wrote in message ... I do need some advice regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them: 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think a fair price would be for her? Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 3. I know that I am not allowed to contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24) The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. If your wife wont tell you then you need to go to counseling. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Sounds like its evil to smite someone. 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: He doesnt have to observe the Shabbat the same way you do. 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a less abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination. Acts 10:On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: Acts 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, Acts 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. Romans 1:Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against natu Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Think about it. 7. Lev. 21:20 sates that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to b e 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? Leviticus 21:21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fi he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. Are you of the seed of Aaron the priest? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? Are you one of the ancient Hebrews that went into the land? Leviticus 19:23 And when ye shall come into the land, ...... 9. I know from Lev. 11:-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? Yes, since footballs arent made out of pigskin. 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10-16) Could we just burn them death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. rj Anytime. B |
"Simon Mason" wrote in message ... "Brian Oakley" wrote in message ... You read the old dispenstion, not the new one. I suggest a class in dispensation at your local church. Thanks, but I had it rammed down my throat by nuns and priests from the age of 5. Luckily I learned how to think for myself and stop believing in ancient fairy stories, despite the brainwashing. -- Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net Like I said, you need a class at a local church, not a Catholic cathedral. B |
"David" wrote in message ... It is an Elizabthan Mind****er's Handbook. Very useful for oppressing slaves. Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. B |
"Al Patrick" wrote in message ... RJ wrote: I do need some advice regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them: 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? You don't even own yourself. 1 Corinthians 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think a fair price would be for her? If she's like her pop she's probably not worth much. Best just give her away. :-) 3. I know that I am not allowed to contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24) The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. You aren't supposed to ask, or know about, "most women" ! 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? Have you been by a good steak house about 6 or 7 PM lately? You need to take one of your neighbors out to supper with you. They'll change their minds about the smell of char-broiled steak! 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? First you need to learn when the Sabbath begins and ends to be sure you aren't following some tradition of men. Are you referring to Lunar Lunacy? The Solar Sabbath? The "legal" day - midnight to midnight? Or are you referring to the Jewish "sabbath" which they claim begins on one day and ends on another; i.e. sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a less abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination. There are 'degrees' of 'rewards' for both good and evil deeds. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 7. Lev. 21:20 sates that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to b e 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? You're not a priest. ... At least I surely hope you're not! 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? I suspect your head is already round and ALL your friends are male! Birds of a feather flock together. Why would YOU kill YOUR friends? ;-) 9. I know from Lev. 11:-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? These laws don't apply to some people. They were for GOD'S people to live by! Eat all the swine you like. The trichinosis is FREE! 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10-16) Could we just burn them death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) Just as the previous question. These laws were for a peculiar, separated, chosen, holy people. I doubt they apply at all to YOU. However, you might be surprised how much healthier and happier we'd all be if we did NOT eat genetically engineered foods, wear clothing of different materials or have disobedient children! Think about it! I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. rj |
"Simon Mason" wrote in message ... "Al Patrick" wrote in message However, you might be surprised how much healthier and happier we'd all be if we did NOT eat genetically engineered foods, wear clothing of different materials or have disobedient children! Think about it! My granddad ate F1 hybrid tomatoes all his life and it did him no harm. Hybrid tomatoes are not genetically engineered. My cycling top is made of man made fibres and is far superior to cotton or wool which just get damp, And that cycling top was maded from oil out of the ground that God created. No secrets here. but what I really want to know is this. One of the ten commandments says thou shall not kill. Last week, I got an infected elbow joint which had bacteria in it. My doctor gave me some antibiotics. Have I committed a mortal sin by killing the bacteria? Well, firtly lets consider the context of killing. The context here is as it applies to people. Genesis 4:And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. Genesis 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. Genesis 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; So we can see that killing someone is not good. Now, lets look at animals. Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So we see that man has dominion over the animal and plant kingdom. John 21:9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread. Here Jesus and His diciples are about to have breakfast of fish and bread. The fish die before they are eaten (unless someone takes a hankerin to swallowing live goldfish or something). The death of the animal was to the benefit of those people who partook. Now lets look at your situation, as fanciful as youve made it to be. If you kill the bacteria to keep yourself alive, the same principal of taking the life of an animal to keep you from harm still applies. Wether it by by eating or by preventing attack upon your body. Think about that. B |
"Al Dykes" wrote in message ... In article , Brian Oakley wrote: "Honus" wrote in message news:H4TSd.54284$uc.1254@trnddc04... "Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. That means absolutely nothing, and the same claims could be made by any other holy book. And written in the most simple human language possible? What hyperbole! It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. Having a word for "sphere" or "globe", etc. for example would have made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. I have to disagree. The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it So does the Old Testament if you read the right parts selectively. The problem is fundies, /literalists and people that have an agenda and are using a holy book to justify their ends. A pox on them. I dont think its the "fundies". I think its people that have such a naive mind that wont believe the truth when the read it. The popularly quoted phrase from the Koran that says "kill all the infidels" is taken out of context. The rest of the paragraph says "unless they leave us alone". Nothing wring with that. Read the writings of Karen Armstrong http://www.islamfortoday.com/karenarmstrong.htm and Bernard Lewis http://www.arab2.com/biography/bernard-lewis.htm Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you." Verse 47:3 - "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly." Verse 48:29 - "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." Verse 66:9 - "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate." 5:17 - "Unbelievers are those who decla 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'" verse 5:51 - "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another." Verse 4:101 - "The unbelievers are your inveterate foe." Verse 3:117 - "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people." So, which ones of these verses are taken out of context? B |
Brian Oakley wrote: So we can see that killing someone is not good. Brian, Thou shalt not kill SHOULD BE translated Thou shalt do NO MURDER. Sometimes killing someONE can be VERY GOOD! The "leaven" would have us believe that we are NEVER to kill. "They" protect almost ALL PREDATORS because they ARE PREDATORS. Spotted owl, or any owl, hawk, etc. is protected so we don't have as many quail, blue birds, sparrows, robins, etc. "They" protect the wolves so the rabbits and other small animals will be eaten. The thief comes ONLY to STEAL, KILL AND DESTROY! Think about it. So many "laws" are written to protect the criminal! Why do you think they want to take away the guns? So they can starve us into submission as was done in Russia and so many other places. :-) The predators make LOTS of money off crime. If we break into a few places and steal their belongs they'll come to us and BEG us to take their money to "insure" their belongings. If we crash airplanes into towers, and bring the towers down with explosives we can get people all over the world to submit to having their wives fondled at airport security check points. They'll surrender their rights to travel freely, carry protection, not have security cameras monitoring their every move, etc., etc., etc. Do you realize how close we are now to hearing, "Your papers please!" just to go from state to state? You'll soon know. Al |
As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it
translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. As for "subsets" of Christianity, more properly called denominations, that has nothing to do with disobeying the Bible at all. It has to do with interpretation. Different verses can be understood in different ways. Sometimes our lack of ability to clearly translate an ancient language into our own lends itself to such differences of interpretation. The above two excerpts were written by the same person, in the same post, separated by only two sentences. Good thing it has a lot to do with shortwave, otherwise I'd think it was just a lot of crazy talk. |
You dont know your history. Christians have NOT killed unbelievers. The
political leaders of the Church may have, but just because someone is a leader doesnt mean they know Christ. Sure it is! Its an easy religion for a sinner to follow! You can hate anyone thats not of your thinking! Once again, written by the same person in the same post. Do you suppose he doesn't get the irony of these two statements together? Darned good thing it has so much to do with shortwave, or else I'd think it was just loony talk. |
SOMEBODY TAKE THIS BALL AND RUN A TOUCHDOWN WITH IT!
Hello. This is God. All right, look. The joke is over now, guys, you can lay off. Sorry 'bout all this whole creation thing getting out of hand, but you know, even I couldn't foresee how leaving a sense of humor out of some people would cause so much trouble. How about you all go get yourselves a cool drink, now? Did you hear the one about the rabbi and the priest that met at the ecumenical conference? Let me tell you about it... |
Brian Oakley wrote: ve made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. I have to disagree. The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. As for the "almah" "debate", the writers of the Septuagint clearly understood the meaning of the Hebrew and translated it with the Greek word for "virgin". That argument is pretty much closed. Hardly. The word is used in both contexts in the Hebrew bible. Hebrew had a couple of terms for young women, "na'arah" and "almah," not to mention "bethulah" which is also ambiguous as to virginity and they may or may not have had different meanings. It's possible that the Greek of the period did not have a word to precisely connote whatever it was that the the compilers of the Septuagint had in mind, so they chose "ha'almah." The reference in Isaiah seems to be clearly describing an event which is to happen in the immediate future, in an attempt to dissuade king Ahaz from handing over Judah to the Assyrians to protect it from alliance of the Syrians and Northern kingdom. This is supported by the use of the definite article - it is "the almah" in Hebrew, not "an almah" as KJV incorrectly has it. |
Larry Ozarow wrote: d. Hardly. The word is used in both contexts in the Hebrew bible. Hebrew had a couple of terms for young women, "na'arah" and "almah," not to mention "bethulah" which is also ambiguous as to virginity and they may or may not have had different meanings. It's possible that the Greek of the period did not have a word to precisely connote whatever it was that the the compilers of the Septuagint had in mind, so they chose "ha'almah." ^^^^^^^^^^ Oops. I meant they chose "parthenos" for "ha'almah" The reference in Isaiah seems to be clearly describing an event which is to happen in the immediate future, in an attempt to dissuade king Ahaz from handing over Judah to the Assyrians to protect it from alliance of the Syrians and Northern kingdom. This is supported by the use of the definite article - it is "the almah" in Hebrew, not "an almah" as KJV incorrectly has it. |
Brian Oakley wrote:
"Honus" wrote in message news:H4TSd.54284$uc.1254@trnddc04... "Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. That means absolutely nothing, and the same claims could be made by any other holy book. And written in the most simple human language possible? What hyperbole! It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. Having a word for "sphere" or "globe", etc. for example would have made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. I have to disagree. The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. As for the "almah" "debate", the writers of the Septuagint clearly understood the meaning of the Hebrew and translated it with the Greek word for "virgin". That argument is pretty much closed. As for "subsets" of Christianity, more properly called denominations, that has nothing to do with disobeying the Bible at all. It has to do with interpretation. Different verses can be understood in different ways. Sometimes our lack of ability to clearly translate an ancient language into our own lends itself to such differences of interpretation. The prayer of Jabez comes to mind. For you to dismiss the Bible as a mere book just indicates that you don't realize how it has changed peoples lives. If everyone lived by the teachings of Jesus, there would be no hate, no selfishness, no lust, no murder, no theft. You cant say that about any other "holy" book. B The bible similarly can be interpreted to sanction genocide. That is it preferable to let people rape your daughters than bugger strangers. That women should not be in positions of leadership. The Koran (have you read it?) teaches that people "of the book", which includes Christians and Jews should be respected and allowed to kill. There are contradictory messages within any book of religious or holy text. Whenever religion becomes allied with power, look out. c.f., "axis of evil", "evil empire" and "great satan" type comments from persons in leadership positions. |
I would call myself a bible guy. If you like the bible, so do I. If
you don't like the bible, I still do. If I were to reccommend a single part of the book to you, to anyone, I would strongly suggest reading Ecclesiastes. Darren http://www.geocities.con/apocalyptic121/index.html |
In article ,
Brian Oakley wrote: "Al Dykes" wrote in message ... In article , Brian Oakley wrote: "Honus" wrote in message news:H4TSd.54284$uc.1254@trnddc04... "Al Patrick" wrote in message ... Copied from page 241 of the New Testament of a 1963 edition of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. As far as I know ALL his Bible's are King James Only. [ALL TYPOS ARE MINE ALONE! I think I'll copyright them!] :-) [Where he underlined for emphasis I'll use upper case.] =========== A Tribute to the Bible The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish, or a book that will work wonders by its very presence. IT IS a book that will work wonders in every life, here and hereafter, if acted upon and obeyed in faith and sincerity. IT IS God's inspired revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, written in the most simple human language possible so that the most unlearned can understand and obey its teachings. IT IS self-interpreting and covers every subject of human knowledge and need now and forever. That means absolutely nothing, and the same claims could be made by any other holy book. And written in the most simple human language possible? What hyperbole! It was written in an inferior language, plain and simple. Having a word for "sphere" or "globe", etc. for example would have made the whole is the Earth round or flat debate moot. I won't even go near the "almah" means young lady vs. virgin debate. And as for understanding and obeying its teachings, yeah...right. that's why they're more subsets of Christianity than you can name. I have to disagree. The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it So does the Old Testament if you read the right parts selectively. The problem is fundies, /literalists and people that have an agenda and are using a holy book to justify their ends. A pox on them. I dont think its the "fundies". I think its people that have such a naive mind that wont believe the truth when the read it. The popularly quoted phrase from the Koran that says "kill all the infidels" is taken out of context. The rest of the paragraph says "unless they leave us alone". Nothing wring with that. Read the writings of Karen Armstrong http://www.islamfortoday.com/karenarmstrong.htm and Bernard Lewis http://www.arab2.com/biography/bernard-lewis.htm Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you." Verse 47:3 - "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly." Verse 48:29 - "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." Verse 66:9 - "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate." 5:17 - "Unbelievers are those who decla 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'" verse 5:51 - "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another." Verse 4:101 - "The unbelievers are your inveterate foe." Verse 3:117 - "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people." So, which ones of these verses are taken out of context? B From _Islam_ by Karen Armstrong p.22; To justify antisemitism some Islamists "quote the passages of the Quran that refer to Muhammad's struggle with three rebellious Jewish tribes" Armstrong doesn't name the passages which tells me there are several. Ibid. P 30 The Quran does not sanctify warefare. it develops a concept of just war and self defense but condems killing and agression. 2.194 What is done in the restricted month may be retaliated in the same month, and murder shall be punishable by execution. Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you; and be aware of God, and know that God is with the righteous. 2:252 Such messengers, We have preferred some over others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in rank, and We gave Jesus son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the holy spirit. And had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes. Ibid. P.22 The Quran is emphatic that force or coercion not be user to make converts. -- a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. |
"Brian Oakley" wrote in message ... "Honus" wrote in message news:VnVSd.54651$uc.2122@trnddc04... "Brian Oakley" wrote in message snip The Koran cant work wonders as it teaches its followers to kill all infidels. Of course, you can find -millions- of Muslims that say that it doesn't. Well regardless of what they say, thats what it says. Ive read it. I find that highly unlikey. It's rare enough to encounter a Christian that's read the Bible cover to cover, much less one that's gone on to peruse other holy books. That's a good way to let a demon in. ;) No, I'm guessing that you've read -portions- of the book. And as someone else has pointed out, they were taken out of context. Besides, just like the Bible I imagine you can twist the Koran around to make it mean whatever one desires. And of course, Christians have been killing infidels since Day ****ing One. You dont know your history. Christians have NOT killed unbelievers. The political leaders of the Church may have, but just because someone is a leader doesnt mean they know Christ. You know, for a guy who prides himself on his deabting skills and his ability to argue for the faith, you sure walk into a bunch of left hooks. If you're really interesting in learning something, look up the no true Scotsman fallacy. It not only applies here, IIRC it was made to describe this situation. And of course, guys that snipe abortion doctors aren't Christians either, I suppose. Or do you want to change your statement to say that Christians have never -murdered- nonbelievers? Since of course killing an abortion doctor and or their staff isn't murder. And who doesn't know their history? And saying that the Koran can't work wonders is extraordinarily ignorant. Only wonders it works is to lead people astray and cause them to hate those who are not muslim. IIRC it's the fastest growing religion in if not the US then the world. Sure it is! Its an easy religion for a sinner to follow! You can hate anyone thats not of your thinking! First of all, there's no shortage of Christians who hate people that aren't of their thinking. I'll bet you're one of them, and I'll bet I'm the target of some of that off-line derision and ire. Do you love me, as Jesus said you should? Not bloody likely. (Don't worry; I'm not losing sleep.) Besides, there are Christians that claim that's not what Jesus commanded. (Oh, wait. They're not True Christians, are they? See how it works?) Secondly, it's seems kind of silly that someone who wants free reign to sin would join up with any religion at all. You're twisting things around. It's the common misconception of atheism that you're describing, not other religions. Are these people converting because they're craven evil *******s that want to fill their lives with sin? See above. No, -you- see above. Or is it more likely that they're experienceing the change that you think only comes with Christianity? You know...the one that you're so smugly dismissing? Love is not part of Islam. Not even love for their own family. If a family member converts to Christianity, they are in absolute danger of being killed by their own family members. That sounds downright Biblical to me. I wonder why? I don't know, the words "Old Testament" keep popping up in my mind. As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. The point is that God could have either selected a better language or made Hebrew more suitable for his purpose. God selected the Hebrew people. If you read the Bible it tells you why. As for their language, I dont believe they had any problems with it. I know why. What's more, I'm betting I know the -real- story behind it all, bearing in mind that I don't believe in Jehovah. As for their language, no, I don't imagine they had too many problems with it either. It's later generations that are having the difficulties. As for the "almah" "debate", the writers of the Septuagint clearly understood the meaning of the Hebrew and translated it with the Greek word for "virgin". That argument is pretty much closed. Wrong. Do some research. I would advise asking Jews what the words mean. It's their language, after all. But you might not like the answer. The Jews that wrote the Septuigint knew what it meant. And they were closer in time to the actually hebrew manuscripts they used to write it. THEY would be the authority of what it means. Not some Jew off the street today. The average Jew here doesnt even speak Hebrew as fluently as they speak english. They dont know ancient Hebrew. That would be a miscommunication of my part. I didn't mean a Jew off of the street; I guessed wrong when I figured you knew what I meant. And I'm betting you still haven't checked out what "the other side" has to say about this particular issue. As for "subsets" of Christianity, more properly called denominations, that has nothing to do with disobeying the Bible at all. It has to do with interpretation. Which wouldn't be an issue if God had "either selected a better language or made Hebrew more suitable for his purpose." I don't need your help...really. Have you ever thought about maybe God WANTING there to be different denominations? I guess not. Sure I have. Have -you- considered that if god wasn't real and that the bible was written by men, then we would have the religious fracturing that we do? Different verses can be understood in different ways. Sometimes our lack of ability to clearly translate an ancient language into our own lends itself to such differences of interpretation. The prayer of Jabez comes to mind. See above. For you to dismiss the Bible as a mere book just indicates that you don't realize how it has changed peoples lives. You don't know me or my background. Do a little research before you make an ass of yourself. Ad Hominem again. Did you get a good grade in debate school? Oh NO, thats right, you didnt go! How do you know? And if that was ad hominem on my part, so was your crack about me not attending debate school. Hypocrite. If everyone lived by the teachings of Jesus, there would be no hate, no selfishness, no lust, no murder, no theft. You cant say that about any other "holy" book. In other words, no sin. Therefore, it's -impossible- to live as you describe. God says so. That is in contrast with other books. Again you are missing the point or trying to twist the point. Stay on topic. I know how ADD can be though. Personal experience? You have my sympathy. You also have my scorn for criticizing what you view as ad hominem on my part, and then doing it yourself. As far as your statement, it doesn't parse. If every one live by Buddhist teachings, there'd be no hate, no selfishness, no lust, no murder, no theft. If you had a point, you didn't make it well. Christians don't have the corner on the morality market. The sanctimony market, perhaps. In this country, certainly. You just go on telling yourself that you've got the One True Faith. Nothing I can say is going to change your mind. Do you -really- believe that no other religion teaches morality comparable to yours? Don't answer; I already know what you're going to say. By the way...ever read up on Bhuddists? Buddha is dead. In the grave. He was a mere man. With lots of faults. "Again you are missing the point or trying to twist the point." Sound familiar? The point was, as I said above, you don't have the market on morality. I'd follow a dead mortal with his admitted faults long before I'd follow someone who made the supernatural claims that Jesus did. And I hate to break this to you, but Jesus is dead too. |
"Al Patrick" wrote in message ... snip Nuclear Physics? Check out Zechariah. Zec 14:12, KJV, "And this shall snip SOMEBODY TAKE THIS BALL AND RUN A TOUCHDOWN WITH IT! Al, do you realize that the Muslims make the -exact- same sort of arguments with verses from the Koran? Look it up. Not for me, but for yourself. |
"Brian Running" wrote in message ... As for language, simple means simple, doesn't mean it translates exactly the way you want it to in whatever language you choose. As for "subsets" of Christianity, more properly called denominations, that has nothing to do with disobeying the Bible at all. It has to do with interpretation. Different verses can be understood in different ways. Sometimes our lack of ability to clearly translate an ancient language into our own lends itself to such differences of interpretation. The above two excerpts were written by the same person, in the same post, separated by only two sentences. Good thing it has a lot to do with shortwave, otherwise I'd think it was just a lot of crazy talk. I'm afraid you took these two statements out of their context. If you had bothered to read the post and repost it in its entirety then it would make sense. Anyone can pull something out of context. B |
"Brian Running" wrote in message ... You dont know your history. Christians have NOT killed unbelievers. The political leaders of the Church may have, but just because someone is a leader doesnt mean they know Christ. Sure it is! Its an easy religion for a sinner to follow! You can hate anyone thats not of your thinking! Once again, written by the same person in the same post. Do you suppose he doesn't get the irony of these two statements together? Darned good thing it has so much to do with shortwave, or else I'd think it was just loony talk. Once again, I'm afraid you took these two statements out of their context. If you had bothered to read the post and repost it in its entirety then it would make sense. Anyone can pull something out of context. B |
"Brian Oakley" wrote in message ... snip Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you." Sounds like something Jehovah would say. Verse 47:3 - "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly." Sounds like something Jehovah -did- say. Verse 48:29 - "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." Yep...still hearing Jehovah. Verse 66:9 - "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate." No change. That's most certainly something we'd hear from the Bible. 5:17 - "Unbelievers are those who decla 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'" I don't see a problem with that. The Bible makes similar claims. What would you expect from any book that claims to be the ultimate truth? It's going to point out that the other guys are in the wrong. And this offends you somehow? verse 5:51 - "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another." Different words, but a very similar tune. No points here either, I'm afraid. Verse 4:101 - "The unbelievers are your inveterate foe." Again, no big deal. Be in the world, not of it, and so on. Verse 3:117 - "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people." Again, there are comparable Bible verses. You're not trying very hard. So, which ones of these verses are taken out of context? All of the ones that don't have their context quoted with them. |
"Brian Oakley" wrote in message ... Like I said, you need a class at a local church, not a Catholic cathedral. Oop! Here's the No True Scotsman fallacy, rearing its ugly head. |
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