| Page 2 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
What the **** is,cs?
cuhulin |
dxAce wrote:
I asked you a simple question, 'tard boy. Gawwd, you're a BOZO... mike |
"Tebojockey" wrote /snip somewhat outmoded means of communication. Even for seafarers, GMDSS is taking over and code is used less and less. /snip Somewhat outmoded? Used less and less? Here's an update: Even at sea, where code died a slow death as far back as the 1960's (some hangers-on who liked it persisted through the 80's) there was no need for any radio operator to have memorized more than two letters of code after that point. Except for an outdated concept of licensing. That is also long gone from the maritime world, with no radio officer aboard any longer. Why? Simple economics. In concert with great advances in safety of life at sea, the need for either code or the radioman who knew it faded away completely a long time ago. I agree with you that anyone who experiments or legitimately repairs or modifies radio transmitting equipment should be licensed, and for the good reasons you explained. But the fact is that neither aircraft nor marine vessels in private or commercial or military use whose lives depend on communication, have any such requirements for the operators. It is in fact quite "plug-n-play" and this is the major reason the MF and HF bands are still in use at all. When that equipment is no longer competitive with modern satellite systems, we will see it disappear entirely from commercial use. By that time new technologies will have other uses for the spectrum, and its hard to imagine how far some of that will go. But it is no longer relevant to continue to drag old habits (CW) along, unless you are forming an "old habit we do for fun" club. If Amateur Radio allows itself to be relegated to that category, as the legal team proposing new BPL rules argued in open court last Fall (which they won by the way, in spite of heroic efforts by the ARRL and others), it has nobody to thank but itself. 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
|
"running dogg" wrote /snip Hobby broadcasting would reinvigorate the hobby, but the oldtimers refuse to consider it. I agree with that. But the FCC has approved low-power FM broadcast licenses, they just haven't got their heads out of someplace to make it easy enough that it takes hold. And there is no conceivable reason that every neighborhood couldn't have a dozen such stations if they wanted them. There are almost as many groups advocating the free right to such low power broadcast (without any kind of license at all) as there are those that espouse income taxes to be unconstitutional. Hopefully the FM broadcast groups actually have a chance of persuading legislators - we know taxes will never go away, lol. Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
"running dogg" barked and slobbered in message ... SNIP SNIP Hams no longer provide essential communications in an emergency, not with all the other methods of communicating. SNIP I direct you to the following URL's http://www.arrl.org/w1aw/2002-arlb012.html http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/10/29/102/?nc=1 http://mrtmag.com/news/sept2002/radi...teurs_nonstop/ http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/03/0801/ See San Diego Tribune article Dozens more on request - or use google if you know how. You Sir, simply don't know what you are talking about. The 500+ Amateurs who participated in these disasters would agree with me as well as the civil authorities and the public who benefited from the Amateur Radio communications when the silly phones were overloaded and the phone lines were toast. -- Lamont Cranston |
You know, the only way these things will change is when the oldtimers die
off. I'm one of them but agree with you. wrote in message ups.com... The issue is not whether one could "suck it up" and take the meaningless test if they want a license. No doubt, if someone wanted to become an licensed amateur they could learn the minimum speed for code and then never use it again. The issue is how such requirements are are perceived by and whether they motivate prospective hams to study for one or more licenses. Like it or not licensed amateur radio communication and it's sister hobby SWLing face a lot of competition from other modes of communication and gathering information about the world that were not there 20 years ago. And none of those modes require testing and licensing. That competition is real and the amateur radio hobby needs to recognize that it no longer has the appeal of being the premier method of long distance communication. If the hobby doesn't, it will gradually fade away. |
"CW" wrote in message
... You know, the only way these things will change is when the oldtimers die off. I'm one of them but agree with you. Disagree There is no issue -- until recently Morse code testing was an international requirement. Requirements are just that whether you like them or not. (hated hygiene in college - useless course, bit the bullet and got thru it anyway) Now Morse it is no longer an international requirement (agreement), the US FCC will undoubtedly drop it. Standby We are talking about testing not the use of the Morse code. I have no doubt what so ever that Morse will be used on the Ham bands indefinitely by new folks, old folks and just plain folks and you can be sure - contesters. A charming mode such as this will refuse to die -- requirement for testing or no. The difference between the Morse code and PSK31 is nil -- speed is 30 to 50 WPM in either one. The difference is a skill set that the anti-code bunch here refuse to buckle down and learn During the last county fair, I took a code practice oscillator to our Ham booth and tapped out Morse code, dozens of kids stopped by and were fascinated with it. Several wanted to know how to learn the code -- we gave them handout sheets to get them started. We could not only attract youth to Amateur Radio, we used Morse code to do it!! How do like them dity dots hjsjms ??? We now have over 30 school kids enrolled in Ham classes. What have you done to further the cause of Amateur Radio ???? Lamont Cranston I shadow, therefore I am wrote in message ups.com... The issue is not whether one could "suck it up" and take the meaningless test if they want a license. No doubt, if someone wanted to become an licensed amateur they could learn the minimum speed for code and then never use it again. The issue is how such requirements are are perceived by and whether they motivate prospective hams to study for one or more licenses. Like it or not licensed amateur radio communication and it's sister hobby SWLing face a lot of competition from other modes of communication and gathering information about the world that were not there 20 years ago. And none of those modes require testing and licensing. That competition is real and the amateur radio hobby needs to recognize that it no longer has the appeal of being the premier method of long distance communication. If the hobby doesn't, it will gradually fade away. |
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 06:33:37 -0800, "Senor Sombra"
The 500+ Amateurs who participated in.... another excuse to key up. |
You won't laugh when the fire comes roaring down the hill and totally
destroys your home, all your belongings, your pets, and possibly you. Want to see what it looked like --- URL: http://www.karlgrobl.com/Photojournalism/Fire/page1.htm http://www.scrippsranch.org/special/fire_gallery.asp In California more than 743,000 acres burned by Monday 11/03/03, these hellish fires caused 24 deaths & destroyed more than 3,570 homes. Read that again --- 3,570 homes and 24 deaths. I had friends die in that fire. Hundreds were evacuated as the smoke was so bad breathing was difficult all over the county. The hospitals were loaded with COPD patients. The smoke also carries metallic particles-- many suffered long after the fires. The football stadium and red cross shelters was filled with fire refugees. Amateurs brought food and water to those areas. Livestock was roasted in their tracks some were rescued by Amateurs. One couple took the wrong turn and died. Amateur Radio could have told them the right escape route. Their cellphones were out, the telephone lines were toasted. Amateurs were a valuable asset heralded by civil authorities and the press. RACES and ARES was out in full force, a Repeater information net served hundreds who needed information on road closures, evacuations, shelters, health and welfare and much more. We are proud to have served. Hope you are as well prepared as you are stupid. -- Lamont Cranston Darling wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 06:33:37 -0800, "Senor Sombra" The 500+ Amateurs who participated in.... another excuse to key up. |
Seņor Sombra wrote:
You won't laugh when the fire comes roaring down the hill and totally destroys your home, all your belongings, your pets, and possibly you. Want to see what it looked like --- URL: http://www.karlgrobl.com/Photojournalism/Fire/page1.htm http://www.scrippsranch.org/special/fire_gallery.asp In California more than 743,000 acres burned by Monday 11/03/03, these hellish fires caused 24 deaths & destroyed more than 3,570 homes. Read that again --- 3,570 homes and 24 deaths. I had friends die in that fire. Hundreds were evacuated as the smoke was so bad breathing was difficult all over the county. The hospitals were loaded with COPD patients. The smoke also carries metallic particles-- many suffered long after the fires. The football stadium and red cross shelters was filled with fire refugees. Amateurs brought food and water to those areas. Livestock was roasted in their tracks some were rescued by Amateurs. One couple took the wrong turn and died. Amateur Radio could have told them the right escape route. Their cellphones were out, the telephone lines were toasted. Amateurs were a valuable asset heralded by civil authorities and the press. RACES and ARES was out in full force, a Repeater information net served hundreds who needed information on road closures, evacuations, shelters, health and welfare and much more. We are proud to have served. Hope you are as well prepared as you are stupid. Any number of other radio services could have "told them the right escape route". Back when I was a little kid, in the 1970s, every car carried an emergency CB radio. This was for communicating to others in the event of an emergency of any kind, or to be used like cell phones and FRS walkie talkies are used now. They worked pretty well, but by the mid 80s Emergency CB was dead, primarily because lack of interest in CB after 1980 had lured all the weirdos to the medium, and the bands had become useless. If you want to make the case for amateur radio disseminating info to the public in an emergency, support the SW hobby broadcasting movement. Radios could easily be made that cover any "hobby broadcasting bands". Licensed hobbyists would be able to run emergency info stations at a time like you recount, and people could contact them through any way possible, including through traditional amateur radio, to give them emergency info to broadcast. In everyday life, the hobby broadcasters would be an important info source, sort of like an on air blog. This would break the corporate conglomerate grip on the media. What good is amateur radio if the only thing you're allowed to discuss is CQ's and "my radio is better than yours"? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
running dogg wrote: Seņor Sombra wrote: You won't laugh when the fire comes roaring down the hill and totally destroys your home, all your belongings, your pets, and possibly you. Want to see what it looked like --- URL: http://www.karlgrobl.com/Photojournalism/Fire/page1.htm http://www.scrippsranch.org/special/fire_gallery.asp In California more than 743,000 acres burned by Monday 11/03/03, these hellish fires caused 24 deaths & destroyed more than 3,570 homes. Read that again --- 3,570 homes and 24 deaths. I had friends die in that fire. Hundreds were evacuated as the smoke was so bad breathing was difficult all over the county. The hospitals were loaded with COPD patients. The smoke also carries metallic particles-- many suffered long after the fires. The football stadium and red cross shelters was filled with fire refugees. Amateurs brought food and water to those areas. Livestock was roasted in their tracks some were rescued by Amateurs. One couple took the wrong turn and died. Amateur Radio could have told them the right escape route. Their cellphones were out, the telephone lines were toasted. Amateurs were a valuable asset heralded by civil authorities and the press. RACES and ARES was out in full force, a Repeater information net served hundreds who needed information on road closures, evacuations, shelters, health and welfare and much more. We are proud to have served. Hope you are as well prepared as you are stupid. Any number of other radio services could have "told them the right escape route". Back when I was a little kid, in the 1970s, every car carried an emergency CB radio. Where did you live? Hazzard County? dxAce Michigan UA |
Mostly true and I agree on the radio comms
But in several instances, we had info that the TV and radio didn't have. How -- we had Amateurs on the scene in many instances. Many lived right in the path of the fire and relayed what evac orders were in effect from authorities. RACES was at several locations as well as ARES As for your last statement: "What good is amateur radio if the only thing you're allowed to discuss is CQ's and "my radio is better than yours"? It is raining here and I being under the weather spent the day inside, playing radio. Here is the topics discussed today on our repeater. An F-14 pilot gave us a rundown on landing the beast. We discussed the Academy awards and good movies. We discussed Steve Fossett remarkable feat. A homebrewer gave us the rundown on his 160 meter MOBILE antenna. We chattered about genealogy, the Civil War, Sherlock Holmes, So Cal's record rains, Joe Rudi NK7U the baseball player will have a web cam on during the contest. A Marine vet told us about the Chosin reservoir. An informative round table on cross band repeating. Our antique car restorer came in about his 1956 Chevy. PSK31 and PSK63 were discussed as well as the latest Digipan program. Howard Huges XF-11 was looked up on Google for info. The movie Ray was applauded. Our satellite expert gave us the rundown on the active birds. A plea was entered to support the bill to protect the Ham bands. Some of the TV court cases were discussed, love that Nancy Grace. DVD recorders were talked about. Several computer problems were solved on the air. Digital cameras and photo printers were compared. Some grousing about where our tax money goes. And that is just a few topics we discussed.The Hikers net came on at 2100 and I turned off the radio. Previous week night nets, ARES, Microwave, Sailors, NTS traffic, Off road, Ham help, and Ham Trivia. And do you know -- not one CQ or radio comparison was heard all day. Are not you stereo typing just a wee bit ??? What did you talk about today ?? -- Lamont Cranston "running dogg" wrote in message ... Seņor Sombra wrote: You won't laugh when the fire comes roaring down the hill and totally destroys your home, all your belongings, your pets, and possibly you. Want to see what it looked like --- URL: http://www.karlgrobl.com/Photojournalism/Fire/page1.htm http://www.scrippsranch.org/special/fire_gallery.asp In California more than 743,000 acres burned by Monday 11/03/03, these hellish fires caused 24 deaths & destroyed more than 3,570 homes. Read that again --- 3,570 homes and 24 deaths. I had friends die in that fire. Hundreds were evacuated as the smoke was so bad breathing was difficult all over the county. The hospitals were loaded with COPD patients. The smoke also carries metallic particles-- many suffered long after the fires. The football stadium and red cross shelters was filled with fire refugees. Amateurs brought food and water to those areas. Livestock was roasted in their tracks some were rescued by Amateurs. One couple took the wrong turn and died. Amateur Radio could have told them the right escape route. Their cellphones were out, the telephone lines were toasted. Amateurs were a valuable asset heralded by civil authorities and the press. RACES and ARES was out in full force, a Repeater information net served hundreds who needed information on road closures, evacuations, shelters, health and welfare and much more. We are proud to have served. Hope you are as well prepared as you are stupid. Any number of other radio services could have "told them the right escape route". Back when I was a little kid, in the 1970s, every car carried an emergency CB radio. This was for communicating to others in the event of an emergency of any kind, or to be used like cell phones and FRS walkie talkies are used now. They worked pretty well, but by the mid 80s Emergency CB was dead, primarily because lack of interest in CB after 1980 had lured all the weirdos to the medium, and the bands had become useless. If you want to make the case for amateur radio disseminating info to the public in an emergency, support the SW hobby broadcasting movement. Radios could easily be made that cover any "hobby broadcasting bands". Licensed hobbyists would be able to run emergency info stations at a time like you recount, and people could contact them through any way possible, including through traditional amateur radio, to give them emergency info to broadcast. In everyday life, the hobby broadcasters would be an important info source, sort of like an on air blog. This would break the corporate conglomerate grip on the media. What good is amateur radio if the only thing you're allowed to discuss is CQ's and "my radio is better than yours"? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Running Dawg not many cars are equipped with CB anymore.
And the range of CB can't be compared to Ham repeaters. Let me give you a little insight to Amateur Radio Emergency Services In our county, we have 35 repeaters on 2 meters alone. Between 440 MHz and 220 MHz there are about 50 more repeaters Most of these are on mountain tops. There are probably 5,000 Hams in the county, many familiar with emergency nets and proper procedures. And many have HF capability on 10 bands. This gives us communications to all over the world. Don't tell me about the internet - it will fall apart when a national disaster hits. Ask the guys in Florida about that one. Cell phones were kaput also. In our club alone we have 4 repeaters on a 5600 foot mountain. They cover 2000 square miles of the county very reliably even to 1 Watt HT's. During the early part of the Calif fires, the repeaters operated on commercial power. The fire swept up the Mountain and toasted the power lines. The repeaters went on battery power for several hours, then started to die. A crew went up the mountain, put gas generators in place and a mountain resident refueled them periodically as required. All of our repeaters were on the air for the full period of the fires 24 hours a day for about 4 days. On one repeater alone -- 300 Hams checked in, over 1000 messages were passed. This is a lot of communication power and has been invaluable during earthquakes, fires, and other disasters. RACES assists civil entities with supplemental communications and ARES works with the Red Cross. They were extensively used during the Calif fires. Now this is just one county. Extrapolate that to all 50 states with 675,000 licensed Amateur Radio Operators. If you want to know what Hams did during the hurricanes or 9/11, use Google. Walter Cronkite stated "Amateur Radio is probably the only fail-safe communications system in the world" I agree as I charge my deep cycle batteries. -- Lamont Cranston "running dogg" wrote in message ... Any number of other radio services could have "told them the right escape route". Back when I was a little kid, in the 1970s, every car carried an emergency CB radio. SNIP |
I don't know for sure,but learning the basic fundementals of useing a
computer (or even my stupid webtv box) couldn't be much harder than learing to be a Ham Radio Operator. cuhulin |
I Agree too.When things get really bad,only Ham Radio and Ham Radio
Operators can save the day concerning communications. cuhulin |
wrote in news:15999-42295EC9-646@storefull-
3253.bay.webtv.net: I read an article the other day of a couple (man/woman thing, you know, a couple), that had been fined and threatened with equipment confiscation since they weren't complying with FCC regulations. The couple's equipment consisted of a battery charger or two for the charging of the couple's electric scooters. You see, the couple did not have an FCC License, they possessed no equipment requiring them to posses a license, yet they have been fined and have been threatened with equipment confiscation since their equipment is causing RFI. Can you learn to press buttons on Handie Talkies (HT), Walkie Talkies, Base Stations, to turn knobs, enter frequencies with the keypad, etc. Sure. Can you learn to do it legally? Therein lies the rub. http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/01/06/2/?nc=1 Modern people think that simple operation of equipment is all that is required for them to be a professional. But to be a good HAM, you need to understand much more (I'm not saying that I am a good HAM). I also have an interest in telescopes. Years ago, anyone with any pride labored to grind and figure the mirror for their telescopes, assembling the entire unit, understanding something about optics in the process. They went outside, learned the sky, found the objects of their desire, and observed them. Today, you open the box, remove the wrapper, put in the batteries, enter the coordinates from a chart, and viola!, the scope slews to the desired star. In return they know little of the optics and even less of the sky. Yet that call themselves amateur astronomers. I realize that the cost is low enough for most people to buy decent telescopes today, something that wasn't the case years ago, therefore they built them, but they still learned about them in the process. You see, we don't have the time to do the work building them, nor learning the sky, we have such busy lives. But subtract the amount of time that we spend perusing porn on the internet and watching endless hours of televised movies, reality shows, and sports, and I think that you would see that we do indeed have the time, but we waste it on superficial things, things that in the long run produce no edification. Aye, you can learn the fundamentals, but can you do it legally, effectively, can you diagnose problems when they occur, or will you simply throw out the item and buy another. Will you simply add a bigger AMP (like the CB linear AMPs), or will you cunningly design your antenna system so that you get the performance that you want with less power and therefore less liklihood that you would produce interference. Soliloquy. I don't know for sure,but learning the basic fundementals of useing a computer (or even my stupid webtv box) couldn't be much harder than learing to be a Ham Radio Operator. cuhulin |
wrote in news:1110116536.435944.59680
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: Actually i've read numerous articles in the last 10 years about backyard astonomers who have built their own reflector including the mirror. Several guys have built their own binoculars (parallel telescopes), designed parallelogram mounts for smaller bins, etc. Optical instruments are cheaper now than they have ever been, so it is indeed easy to call Orion and place an order. What country were the individuals in that the articles were about? Oft times the articles are indeed about such activities, just not Americans doing it. But DIY is still alive in backyard astronomy. Well, it isn't here, in this area. http://3ap.org/ http://extragalacticsystems.com/3ap....cilities.shtml http://extragalacticsystems.com/3ap....s/brashear.jpg It's one of the bigger clubs in the country, yet the interest in construction and optics is nil. The facility is tremendous, and the interest in improving it is significant, yet the work is always done by a small group of dedicated individuals. Otherwise, open the box, unwrap, install batteries, enter the number, look. And the real issue with that couple was not that they caused the interference, but that they ignored several formal complaints from the FCC. Well, no kidding. My point was that simple operation is not what HAM is about, understanding and controlling interference is part of it. The post was in response to an individual's comment that operating HAM equipment wasn't that difficult. And the FCC could have used a little more common sense once they got the attention of that elderly couple. Culpability on both sides. Not really, the couple should have complied. The HAM had even provided them with the toroids to correct the problem, they threw them in his garden when they heard that he was talking negatively about them. How many HAM are being forced by zoning regulations into removing their antenna systems (or at least spending considerable time and money fighting the ordinances). How gleeful the neighbors are when they win in these type of disagreements. The neighbors were properly warned, they just didn't believe that the FCC had the authority to fine them since they weren't operating equipment per se. Regards. Dr. Artaud |
Actually i've read numerous articles in the last 10 years about
backyard astonomers who have built their own reflector including the mirror. Several guys have built their own binoculars (parallel telescopes), designed parallelogram mounts for smaller bins, etc. Optical instruments are cheaper now than they have ever been, so it is indeed easy to call Orion and place an order. What country were the individuals in that the articles were about? Oft times the articles are indeed about such activities, just not Americans doing it. hjs S&T mostly and Astronomy and to my recollection some were international, but most in the US. And I'd hear guys talking about building a reflector at the local astronomy club meetings. But DIY is still alive in backyard astronomy. Well, it isn't here, in this area. hjs That's unfortunate because an understanding of how it works at some level helps in the use of almost any instrument. http://3ap.org/ http://extragalacticsystems.co=ADm/3...cilities.shtml http://extragalacticsystems.co=ADm/3...s/brashear.jpg It's one of the bigger clubs in the country, yet the interest in construction and optics is nil. The facility is tremendous, and the interest in improving it is significant, yet the work is always done by a small group of dedicated individuals. Otherwise, open the box, unwrap, install batteries, enter the number, look. And the real issue with that couple was not that they caused the interference, but that they ignored several formal complaints from the FCC. Well, no kidding. My point was that simple operation is not what HAM is about, understanding and controlling interference is part of it. The post was in response to an individual's comment that operating HAM equipment wasn't that difficult. hjs Well, I'm glad that you agree. Yes, understanding how the components interact and the principles of safe and efficient operation are very important. It is too bad that prospective ham's are not subject to practical testing covering such aspects. And the FCC could have used a little more common sense once they got the attention of that elderly couple. Culpability on both sides. Not really, the couple should have complied. The HAM had even provided them with the toroids to correct the problem, they threw them in his garden when they heard that he was talking negatively about them. How many HAM are being forced by zoning regulations into removing their antenna systems (or at least spending considerable time and money fighting the ordinances). How gleeful the neighbors are when they win in these type of disagreements. The neighbors were properly warned, they just didn't believe that the FCC had the authority to fine them since they weren't operating equipment per se. hjs Well, sure the couple should have complied. Regards.=20 Dr. Artaud |
In article ,
Dr. Artaud wrote: It's one of the bigger clubs in the country, yet the interest in construction and optics is nil. The facility is tremendous, and the interest in improving it is significant, yet the work is always done by a small group of dedicated individuals. Otherwise, open the box, unwrap, install batteries, enter the number, look. So? How good is the attendance at your local Robotics contests? Mark Zenier Washington State resident |
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 21:58:45 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: "Tebojockey" wrote /snip somewhat outmoded means of communication. Even for seafarers, GMDSS is taking over and code is used less and less. /snip Somewhat outmoded? Used less and less? Here's an update: Even at sea, where code died a slow death as far back as the 1960's (some hangers-on who liked it persisted through the 80's) there was no need for any radio operator to have memorized more than two letters of code after that point. Except for an outdated concept of licensing. That is also long gone from the maritime world, with no radio officer aboard any longer. Why? Simple economics. In concert with great advances in safety of life at sea, the need for either code or the radioman who knew it faded away completely a long time ago. I agree with you that anyone who experiments or legitimately repairs or modifies radio transmitting equipment should be licensed, and for the good reasons you explained. But the fact is that neither aircraft nor marine vessels in private or commercial or military use whose lives depend on communication, have any such requirements for the operators. It is in fact quite "plug-n-play" and this is the major reason the MF and HF bands are still in use at all. When that equipment is no longer competitive with modern satellite systems, we will see it disappear entirely from commercial use. By that time new technologies will have other uses for the spectrum, and its hard to imagine how far some of that will go. But it is no longer relevant to continue to drag old habits (CW) along, unless you are forming an "old habit we do for fun" club. If Amateur Radio allows itself to be relegated to that category, as the legal team proposing new BPL rules argued in open court last Fall (which they won by the way, in spite of heroic efforts by the ARRL and others), it has nobody to thank but itself. 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia Jack, Thanks for your input, but I beg to differ with you. A general radiotelephone operator's license IS required to perform *any* work on comms equipment for aircraft or marine use. Further, GMDSS repairer or operator is required for using or repairing that equipment, as is a second or first-class radiotelegraph license for most large vessels. Plug-n-play aside, these licenses are still required, and anyone not havig one and working on such equipment is liable for big trouble if found out. Military is a different matter, as they train and certify their own, but commercial and private aircraft and marine must still abide by the regs (that is, if they are US licensed or serviced in a US facility). Code is still very useful in an emergency if all other means fail. Indeed, this is why code became a part of ham radio. When it was being demonstrated to one federal regulator in the early days, the modulator section of the demonstrator's equipment failed and he switched to Morse. The federal official was so impressed, that it became a part of licensing regulations. Like it or not, we hams many times find ourselves in emergency situations where we have to relay or report message. How do you propose to do that if you have no spares and your modulator fails? I don't use code, but I can in an emergency. This gives me a nice comfort zone. Some people prefer to use it exclusively. But I suspect that it will always be a part of the license requirement. Surely if you possess the necessary skils for electronics, you can master 5 WPM code which is now all that is required. It's a rite of passage to join the club. Let us not forget that the license is a *privilege* and not a right, and can be revoked at whim by the FCC. It's something you have to earn, and the powers that be apparently feel that code is necessary, I suspect, for emergency purposes. Regards, Al ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Tebojockey" wrote "Jack Painter" wrote: "Tebojockey" wrote /snip somewhat outmoded means of communication. Even for seafarers, GMDSS is taking over and code is used less and less. /snip Somewhat outmoded? Used less and less? Here's an update: Even at sea, where code died a slow death as far back as the 1960's (some hangers-on who liked it persisted through the 80's) there was no need for any radio operator to have memorized more than two letters of code after that point. Except for an outdated concept of licensing. That is also long gone from the maritime world, with no radio officer aboard any longer. Why? Simple economics. In concert with great advances in safety of life at sea, the need for either code or the radioman who knew it faded away completely a long time ago. I agree with you that anyone who experiments or legitimately repairs or modifies radio transmitting equipment should be licensed, and for the good reasons you explained. But the fact is that neither aircraft nor marine vessels in private or commercial or military use whose lives depend on communication, have any such requirements for the operators. It is in fact quite "plug-n-play" and this is the major reason the MF and HF bands are still in use at all. When that equipment is no longer competitive with modern satellite systems, we will see it disappear entirely from commercial use. By that time new technologies will have other uses for the spectrum, and its hard to imagine how far some of that will go. But it is no longer relevant to continue to drag old habits (CW) along, unless you are forming an "old habit we do for fun" club. If Amateur Radio allows itself to be relegated to that category, as the legal team proposing new BPL rules argued in open court last Fall (which they won by the way, in spite of heroic efforts by the ARRL and others), it has nobody to thank but itself. 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia Jack, Thanks for your input, but I beg to differ with you. A general radiotelephone operator's license IS required to perform *any* work on comms equipment for aircraft or marine use. Further, GMDSS repairer or operator is required for using or repairing that equipment, as is a second or first-class radiotelegraph license for most large vessels. Plug-n-play aside, these licenses are still required, and anyone not havig one and working on such equipment is liable for big trouble if found out. Military is a different matter, as they train and certify their own, but commercial and private aircraft and marine must still abide by the regs (that is, if they are US licensed or serviced in a US facility). Code is still very useful in an emergency if all other means fail. Indeed, this is why code became a part of ham radio. When it was being demonstrated to one federal regulator in the early days, the modulator section of the demonstrator's equipment failed and he switched to Morse. The federal official was so impressed, that it became a part of licensing regulations. Like it or not, we hams many times find ourselves in emergency situations where we have to relay or report message. How do you propose to do that if you have no spares and your modulator fails? I don't use code, but I can in an emergency. This gives me a nice comfort zone. Some people prefer to use it exclusively. But I suspect that it will always be a part of the license requirement. Surely if you possess the necessary skils for electronics, you can master 5 WPM code which is now all that is required. It's a rite of passage to join the club. Let us not forget that the license is a *privilege* and not a right, and can be revoked at whim by the FCC. It's something you have to earn, and the powers that be apparently feel that code is necessary, I suspect, for emergency purposes. Regards, Al Hello Al, We aren't talking about the licenses required to repair radio transmitters, and I did agree with you in that respect. But those licenses are neither required onboard ship or aircraft nor is there a radio officer aboard who holds them. Except in the case of compulsory GMDSS where there has to be a GMDSS operator OR repairer on board - but he does NOT have to be the one operating the equipment. There is no code required to OPERATE commercial marine or aircraft radio transmitters, it is a station license not an individual license. For an individual who privately owns a vessel or aircraft, his restricted radio operators license is for life and applies to any mobile maritime station that he operates from. No code. Redundancy in all compulsory equipped vessels allows the necessary swapping or replacement of the active transmitters for the job. There is no repair capability aboard maritime mobile units. Vessels at sea were the last living reason for any existence of Morse code, and it became history a LONG time ago. That's it, it's the end of the era and should be relegated to the museum. There is no compelling reason for any unit to know it or use it ever again. Hams were required to know code for absolutely ridiculous reasons that had nothing to do with your nice but untrue anecdotal story, mate. The early federal regulators were all members of that "club" you refer to (originally part of the Department of War), and they imposed that requirement on the hobby to make it difficult for the public to access "their" airwaves. Airwaves which incidentally belong to the public and are NOT a PRIVILEGE granted by the government. The government only has limited powers to regulate areas which so strongly affect the whole public, that without licensing and oversight, could aversely affect the whole public's right to enjoyment of those (highways, airwaves, etc) mediums. I hate to burst the bubble of those who worked hard to learn code because they think ham radios will someday save the day for emergency communications, but not in the United States they won't. If any of you hams have been following what happened to the SHARES network in the last few years, you're almost out of the picture now. Every US Government agency now participates in SHARES, and amateur members are only allowed to have their net control make a single check-in. Except for SHARES, the nets that these agencies work in never permit amateurs. Reliable telephone systems, reliable cellular networks, reliable satellite systems, and finally, reliable HF-ALE nets operated exclusively by the government provide most of the communications capability that US emergency planners rely on. CW is not part of any of that network training or planning, nor was it ever for the last several decades. I'm sure you once worked hard to learn it, and some may still enjoy it. Fine, but let go of the thought that it could ever again play a useful role in emergency communications. It's an argument using old logic that simply does not apply to our present environment. Of course if all the lights really go out, you 20+ wpm hams will be able to have your own secret-code that nobody else will understand ;-) 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
"Tebojockey" wrote in message ... Jack, Thanks for your input, but I beg to differ with you. A general radiotelephone operator's license IS required to perform *any* work on comms equipment for aircraft or marine use. He wasn't talking about a repair tech, he stated "operator. When it was being demonstrated to one federal regulator in the early days, the modulator section of the demonstrator's equipment failed and he switched to Morse. The federal official was so impressed, that it became a part of licensing regulations. That's a new one. Just make that up? But I suspect that it will always be a part of the license requirement. No it won't, wait a few years. It's a rite of passage to join the club. Now it comes out. Hazing. I thought people got over that in college. |
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:03:23 -0800, "CW" wrote:
"Tebojockey" wrote in message .. . Jack, Thanks for your input, but I beg to differ with you. A general radiotelephone operator's license IS required to perform *any* work on comms equipment for aircraft or marine use. He wasn't talking about a repair tech, he stated "operator. Operators may not evenchange "plug-and-play" equipment unless they are throwing a switch from main to standby. Read the rules, Sir. When it was being demonstrated to one federal regulator in the early days, the modulator section of the demonstrator's equipment failed and he switched to Morse. The federal official was so impressed, that it became a part of licensing regulations. That's a new one. Just make that up? No, try reading ARRL and ham history a bit, you'll find the scenario and stories. My imagination isn't that good. Maybe yours is. But I suspect that it will always be a part of the license requirement. No it won't, wait a few years. It's a rite of passage to join the club. Now it comes out. Hazing. I thought people got over that in college. We did, but our club, our rules. You want the license, you pass all the tests. Don't like it? CB is still there, but for how long, no one knows. Drive through, please. Al ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 19:28:38 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: "Tebojockey" wrote "Jack Painter" wrote: "Tebojockey" wrote /snip somewhat outmoded means of communication. Even for seafarers, GMDSS is taking over and code is used less and less. /snip Somewhat outmoded? Used less and less? Here's an update: Even at sea, where code died a slow death as far back as the 1960's (some hangers-on who liked it persisted through the 80's) there was no need for any radio operator to have memorized more than two letters of code after that point. Except for an outdated concept of licensing. That is also long gone from the maritime world, with no radio officer aboard any longer. Why? Simple economics. In concert with great advances in safety of life at sea, the need for either code or the radioman who knew it faded away completely a long time ago. I agree with you that anyone who experiments or legitimately repairs or modifies radio transmitting equipment should be licensed, and for the good reasons you explained. But the fact is that neither aircraft nor marine vessels in private or commercial or military use whose lives depend on communication, have any such requirements for the operators. It is in fact quite "plug-n-play" and this is the major reason the MF and HF bands are still in use at all. When that equipment is no longer competitive with modern satellite systems, we will see it disappear entirely from commercial use. By that time new technologies will have other uses for the spectrum, and its hard to imagine how far some of that will go. But it is no longer relevant to continue to drag old habits (CW) along, unless you are forming an "old habit we do for fun" club. If Amateur Radio allows itself to be relegated to that category, as the legal team proposing new BPL rules argued in open court last Fall (which they won by the way, in spite of heroic efforts by the ARRL and others), it has nobody to thank but itself. 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia Jack, Thanks for your input, but I beg to differ with you. A general radiotelephone operator's license IS required to perform *any* work on comms equipment for aircraft or marine use. Further, GMDSS repairer or operator is required for using or repairing that equipment, as is a second or first-class radiotelegraph license for most large vessels. Plug-n-play aside, these licenses are still required, and anyone not havig one and working on such equipment is liable for big trouble if found out. Military is a different matter, as they train and certify their own, but commercial and private aircraft and marine must still abide by the regs (that is, if they are US licensed or serviced in a US facility). Code is still very useful in an emergency if all other means fail. Indeed, this is why code became a part of ham radio. When it was being demonstrated to one federal regulator in the early days, the modulator section of the demonstrator's equipment failed and he switched to Morse. The federal official was so impressed, that it became a part of licensing regulations. Like it or not, we hams many times find ourselves in emergency situations where we have to relay or report message. How do you propose to do that if you have no spares and your modulator fails? I don't use code, but I can in an emergency. This gives me a nice comfort zone. Some people prefer to use it exclusively. But I suspect that it will always be a part of the license requirement. Surely if you possess the necessary skils for electronics, you can master 5 WPM code which is now all that is required. It's a rite of passage to join the club. Let us not forget that the license is a *privilege* and not a right, and can be revoked at whim by the FCC. It's something you have to earn, and the powers that be apparently feel that code is necessary, I suspect, for emergency purposes. Regards, Al Hello Al, We aren't talking about the licenses required to repair radio transmitters, and I did agree with you in that respect. But those licenses are neither required onboard ship or aircraft nor is there a radio officer aboard who holds them. Except in the case of compulsory GMDSS where there has to be a GMDSS operator OR repairer on board - but he does NOT have to be the one operating the equipment. There is no code required to OPERATE commercial marine or aircraft radio transmitters, it is a station license not an individual license. For an individual who privately owns a vessel or aircraft, his restricted radio operators license is for life and applies to any mobile maritime station that he operates from. No code. Redundancy in all compulsory equipped vessels allows the necessary swapping or replacement of the active transmitters for the job. There is no repair capability aboard maritime mobile units. Vessels at sea were the last living reason for any existence of Morse code, and it became history a LONG time ago. That's it, it's the end of the era and should be relegated to the museum. There is no compelling reason for any unit to know it or use it ever again. Hams were required to know code for absolutely ridiculous reasons that had nothing to do with your nice but untrue anecdotal story, mate. The early federal regulators were all members of that "club" you refer to (originally part of the Department of War), and they imposed that requirement on the hobby to make it difficult for the public to access "their" airwaves. Airwaves which incidentally belong to the public and are NOT a PRIVILEGE granted by the government. The government only has limited powers to regulate areas which so strongly affect the whole public, that without licensing and oversight, could aversely affect the whole public's right to enjoyment of those (highways, airwaves, etc) mediums. I hate to burst the bubble of those who worked hard to learn code because they think ham radios will someday save the day for emergency communications, but not in the United States they won't. If any of you hams have been following what happened to the SHARES network in the last few years, you're almost out of the picture now. Every US Government agency now participates in SHARES, and amateur members are only allowed to have their net control make a single check-in. Except for SHARES, the nets that these agencies work in never permit amateurs. Reliable telephone systems, reliable cellular networks, reliable satellite systems, and finally, reliable HF-ALE nets operated exclusively by the government provide most of the communications capability that US emergency planners rely on. CW is not part of any of that network training or planning, nor was it ever for the last several decades. I'm sure you once worked hard to learn it, and some may still enjoy it. Fine, but let go of the thought that it could ever again play a useful role in emergency communications. It's an argument using old logic that simply does not apply to our present environment. Of course if all the lights really go out, you 20+ wpm hams will be able to have your own secret-code that nobody else will understand ;-) 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia Hey Jack, I agree with you, but an operator may not even swap "plug-and-play" modules, unless s/he is just flipping a switch. They may disconnect and remove the radio and replace it, but they may not open it or perform any mods or adjustments. That is still the exclusive domain of the repairer, according to FCC rules. You might check some of the US Mariner organization web sites for more info about requirements for Radio Officers as well. They still need the second class radiotelegraph license to be on the ships which is still 20 WPM. As far as the code required to operate the stations, I agree with you about aircraft, however, see the above for maritime stations. A 2nd class radiotelegraph is still needed for the operator, despite the station itself being licensed, at least for US flagged vessels. There is still a very large proliferation of CW coast stations worldwide as well, so something is still going on, right? As far as my anecdotal story goes, that was what the ARRLs story was way back when, when I got my license. I believe that to be more palatable than your anectode at any rate. True or not, that's what was in the books and that's what we all believed. The War Dept. (now the Dept. of the Army) didn't cause cessation of ham radio until everything hit the fan in WWII. Hams were even regarded as national resources and helped win the war. Unfortunately, We the People gave Big Brother the rights to our airwaves many, many years ago. Now they are regulated by the government and just you try to do something saying they belong to the people. See what happens, LOL. The only time they belong to the people is when the government is prosecuting someone in the name of the people. It's easier to get convictions that way. LOL I know a lot of your own personal feelings are put into your posts, but unfortunately, what you believe, and what laws and rules actually exist, conflict in so many areas, Jack. Code is still required for a reason, whatever that may be, and while I agree it may not be necessary in the vast majority of cases, there will always be that one exception to the rule emergency-wise, that I believe completely justifies at least keeping the 5 WPM. 73s ASA Lives! Al ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:03 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com