In article ,
"Ric Trexell" wrote:

I was reading a few of the posts about how there will not be a need
for ham radio in the future due to all the new ways of communicating.

There is no real need for them now.

That has a lot to do with it but I think the biggest problem with ham
radio is the hams themselves.

Some ham's have a bad attitude toward the hobby but you can't lump them
all into one group.

CB'ers killed CB'ing with bad language and hams are doing it with
those stupid contests. I remember as a kid getting my first SW radio
and listening to hams talk about their lives and the area that they
lived in and stuff like that. Now when I turn it on I get guys
talking only about their radio or calling CQ CQ contest. Then
another will come back and say they are 5 and 9 out here in Kansas
and soon the guy is calling CQ CQ contest again. Does any one think
that people are going to invest in a radio and all the learning to do
what are nothing more than fancy radio checks? If that is what the
ham bands are going to be used for, then I say turn them over to
business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.

Well, those are some of the reasons why I'm not a ham.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

I can tell y'all right now,,, businesses and telephone companies don't
want anything to do with Shortwave Radio nowdays since the advent of new
types of digital communication.
cuhulin

The ham radio hobby really needs to rethink the way that it controls
access to the hobby. Continuing to require seriously outdated tests
like morse code is a turnoff to many potential amateur radio buffs.
Why not try something revolutionary such as live testing for safe and
courteous operation using voice and digital modes.

When I listen to the guys on HF my sense is that their average age
continues to increase. I also detect that overall participation is way
off from a decade ago - lots of open space in what were once crowded
chunks of spectrum. I hear very few young and virtually no female
voices of any age. Ham radio needs to think of changes to become a
worthwhile alternative to the many other modes of communicating that
do not require a license. If it continues doing business as it has
then it's future will indeed be short - possibly much less than 2050 as
mentioned in the earlier thread. The remaining members can look
forward to the FCC continuing to divert more amateur radio spectrum to
commercial interests that want to use it.

By way of background I come from a family of radio amateurs. My son
(an electrical engineer) considered the hobby, but thought the
licensing requirement silly and the morse code requirement laughable in
todays world. He can talk around the world several ways via the
internet. He has a cell phone that does much the same thing a handheld
tribander does - allows him to talk with other people. It looks a lot
like a handheld, but it costs less and doesn't require a license.

Time for the hobby and it's gatekeeper to wake up before it is too
late.


Ric Trexell wrote:
I was reading a few of the posts about how there will not be a need
for ham
radio in the future due to all the new ways of communicating. That
has a
lot to do with it but I think the biggest problem with ham radio is
the hams
themselves. CB'ers killed CB'ing with bad language and hams are
doing it
with those stupid contests. I remember as a kid getting my first SW
radio
and listening to hams talk about their lives and the area that they
lived in
and stuff like that. Now when I turn it on I get guys talking only
about
their radio or calling CQ CQ contest. Then another will come back
and say
they are 5 and 9 out here in Kansas and soon the guy is calling CQ CQ
contest again. Does any one think that people are going to invest in
a
radio and all the learning to do what are nothing more than fancy
radio
checks? If that is what the ham bands are going to be used for, then
I say
turn them over to business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.

On 02/03/2005 9:30 PM, Ric Trexell wrote:
I was reading a few of the posts about how there will not be a need for ham
radio in the future due to all the new ways of communicating. That has a
lot to do with it but I think the biggest problem with ham radio is the hams
themselves. CB'ers killed CB'ing with bad language and hams are doing it
with those stupid contests. I remember as a kid getting my first SW radio
and listening to hams talk about their lives and the area that they lived in
and stuff like that. Now when I turn it on I get guys talking only about
their radio or calling CQ CQ contest. Then another will come back and say
they are 5 and 9 out here in Kansas and soon the guy is calling CQ CQ
contest again. Does any one think that people are going to invest in a
radio and all the learning to do what are nothing more than fancy radio
checks? If that is what the ham bands are going to be used for, then I say
turn them over to business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.


Your comments are certainly going to spawn a lot of commentary! I hope
the vitriol stays reasonably low, as I can see where you are coming
from. In my short experience, rag-chewers talk about a.) the weather
b.) their equipment and c.) their cats.

I wanted to get into amateur radio when I was a kid -- it was exactly
the kind of technology I was fascinated by -- but for various reasons
never really got beyond building my own VHF "scanner" and learning how
to solder. All these years later, the purchase of a SW set has
rekindled my interest in amateur. I've recently decided to get my Basic
Qualification just for fun.

However, I've noticed many of the same things you have, and I /have/
wondered if the glory days are over, and I'm just too late. I think
there is no surprise that the mean age of amateurs has only gone up.
With the rise of internet radio, and the scaling down of some of the
stations, much the same good be said for SWL, as well.

I decided to go for it anyway, and to even practice Morse (I'm learning
at 15 WPM just to set a challenge.) I figure I can give myself a few
years on the +30MHz areas until I get my code endorsement (or the ITU
recommends dropping code, and Industry Canada follows suit),
participating as I can.

I think contests might be a fun way to meet people outside of your local
"net", but agree that unless you promise to hook up at a later time, the
pressure is really just to work 'em and log 'em and move on. I'm going
to a ham swap meet in the summer to scope out my local amateur community.

As someone else said in this thread, amateur cab be about more than
talking about gear and the weather on SSB. What the hell. I'll
discover that for myself.

On 02/03/2005 9:30 PM, Ric Trexell wrote:
[...]
Does any one think that people are going to invest in a
radio and all the learning to do what are nothing more than fancy radio
checks? If that is what the ham bands are going to be used for, then I say
turn them over to business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.

One last comment. The funny thing is that the many licensing bodies
that give access to the amateur bands have specific rules about what
kinds of conversation can take place.

Industry Canada has a requirement that amateur phone conversation (and
I'm paraphrasing now) be of a "basic and trivial non-contentious
nature." I understand that the FCC has similar wording when discussing
the form and content of U.S. amateur phone communication.

So, in reality, amateurs are supposed to fill their conversation with
radio checks and weather reports. Trivial bits of tech gossip and rig
checks are expected and encouraged, according to the test questions I've
answered.

I'm sure that this doesn't limit the actual range of subjects phone
operators (or CW, for that matter) chat about. I'm just pointing out
that the actual rules for using the public airwaves are pretty clear
what you can and cannot say.

That being said, I'm a fan of keeping a good portion of the spectrum
open and non-commercial. The airwaves (and the FCC used to be pretty
strong about this) belong to the people, for use by the people.
Industry has enough of the spectrum. Given they have the R&D resources,
they can also work on squeezing more information into a tighter
bandwidth if they really need more room.

From what I hear on VHF and UHF, industry uses radio the same way
amateurs do: 90% goofing around and rag-chewing and 10% real work. The
other day a city bus driver had to tell a number of "phone ops" drivers
to stop rag-chewing on the job!

It is NOT the code tests and exams that is the big turnoff -- it is a lack
of good old fashioned "Yankee Can Do"

You either see "outdated useless requirements" as a challenge to overcome
and achieve your goals or you whine and drop out.

All of the below is such a gross generalization that it is not worthy of a
response.

Maybe spend your time training new folks, get involved in emergency
communications and promote Amateur Radio.

P.S. Good luck with your silly phones when the big one hits. During our
fires in So Calif -- they were useless.

--
Lamont Cranston



wrote in message
oups.com...
The ham radio hobby really needs to rethink the way that it controls
access to the hobby. Continuing to require seriously outdated tests
like morse code is a turnoff to many potential amateur radio buffs.
Why not try something revolutionary such as live testing for safe and
courteous operation using voice and digital modes.

When I listen to the guys on HF my sense is that their average age
continues to increase. I also detect that overall participation is way
off from a decade ago - lots of open space in what were once crowded
chunks of spectrum. I hear very few young and virtually no female
voices of any age. Ham radio needs to think of changes to become a
worthwhile alternative to the many other modes of communicating that
do not require a license. If it continues doing business as it has
then it's future will indeed be short - possibly much less than 2050 as
mentioned in the earlier thread. The remaining members can look
forward to the FCC continuing to divert more amateur radio spectrum to
commercial interests that want to use it.

By way of background I come from a family of radio amateurs. My son
(an electrical engineer) considered the hobby, but thought the
licensing requirement silly and the morse code requirement laughable in
todays world. He can talk around the world several ways via the
internet. He has a cell phone that does much the same thing a handheld
tribander does - allows him to talk with other people. It looks a lot
like a handheld, but it costs less and doesn't require a license.

Time for the hobby and it's gatekeeper to wake up before it is too
late.


Ric Trexell wrote:
I was reading a few of the posts about how there will not be a need
for ham
radio in the future due to all the new ways of communicating. That
has a
lot to do with it but I think the biggest problem with ham radio is
the hams
themselves. CB'ers killed CB'ing with bad language and hams are
doing it
with those stupid contests. I remember as a kid getting my first SW
radio
and listening to hams talk about their lives and the area that they
lived in
and stuff like that. Now when I turn it on I get guys talking only
about
their radio or calling CQ CQ contest. Then another will come back
and say
they are 5 and 9 out here in Kansas and soon the guy is calling CQ CQ
contest again. Does any one think that people are going to invest in
a
radio and all the learning to do what are nothing more than fancy
radio
checks? If that is what the ham bands are going to be used for, then
I say
turn them over to business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.

Hmmm...since you seem to think that learning an antiquated and absurdly
slow way of communicating isn't the stumbling block, please tell us why
young people are not signing up in droves like they did in the 50's and
60's. And please tell me what "Yankee Can Do" means and how it is
supposed to attract badly needed young blood to a rapidly aging hobby.

Sad to say, but your attitude parrots that of the ARRL and it is
exactly what is going to kill this hobby. Yes, I know it hurts the
pride a bit to realize the test so many hams once had to pass does not
produce meaningful results. Much of the ham test is about as relevant
as requiring buggy skills of prospective automobile driving licensees.
And requiring that new hams pass the old test because the oldtimers had
to will just continue to turn the new blood away.

Ii would be nice to say that hams provide a service in times of
emergency, but the specific instances where they actually benefited the
emergency worker or had a positive impact on locals are fewer and
fewer. I've tried listening to H&W nets in hurricane season and they
seem to degenerate into chaos more than provide a useful service.
People trampling over one another, sending code on top of voice, etc.
It is as though many of them were trying for the contact rather than
trying to help.

If the designation of licensed radio amateur was a desirable goal then
wouldn't we see more young people trying to attain it? But just the
opposite it happening. The graying of the hobby and the inexorable
reduction in the number of active hams is obvious to anyone who listens
in.

And if the greater ham community and the ARRL collectively decides to
continue playing gatekeeper by requiring meaningless tests to become a
licensed radio amateur there will come a time that that nobody will be
knocking at the gate.

wrote:

Hmmm...since you seem to think that learning an antiquated and absurdly
slow way of communicating isn't the stumbling block, please tell us why
young people are not signing up in droves like they did in the 50's and
60's. And please tell me what "Yankee Can Do" means and how it is
supposed to attract badly needed young blood to a rapidly aging hobby.

Sad to say, but your attitude parrots that of the ARRL and it is
exactly what is going to kill this hobby. Yes, I know it hurts the
pride a bit to realize the test so many hams once had to pass does not
produce meaningful results. Much of the ham test is about as relevant
as requiring buggy skills of prospective automobile driving licensees.
And requiring that new hams pass the old test because the oldtimers had
to will just continue to turn the new blood away.

Ii would be nice to say that hams provide a service in times of
emergency, but the specific instances where they actually benefited the
emergency worker or had a positive impact on locals are fewer and
fewer. I've tried listening to H&W nets in hurricane season and they
seem to degenerate into chaos more than provide a useful service.
People trampling over one another, sending code on top of voice, etc.
It is as though many of them were trying for the contact rather than
trying to help.

If the designation of licensed radio amateur was a desirable goal then
wouldn't we see more young people trying to attain it? But just the
opposite it happening. The graying of the hobby and the inexorable
reduction in the number of active hams is obvious to anyone who listens
in.

And if the greater ham community and the ARRL collectively decides to
continue playing gatekeeper by requiring meaningless tests to become a
licensed radio amateur there will come a time that that nobody will be
knocking at the gate.

Heard you knocking, please go away.

In my long experience, the ones who complain are most often the ones who can't
seem to knuckle down and study.

That holds true for most any endeavour.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

If you don't like the conversation, you can always join
in and change it...Can't ya?
Contests only run occasionally...If thats all you hear,
you don't listen too often. The WARC bands have no contests
in general...What would tel and biz want with HF? Useless
for their purposes...Who are you to say what they use the
bands for, if you aren't even a ham? You really don't even
have a clue...Seriously...It's like a circus weight guesser
trying to tell the acrobats how and where they should do
their tricks, even though you have never done acrobatics...
Ham radio is not going anywhere, anytime soon. It does compete
with puters, internet, etc though...No biggie... I can, and do,
talk about anything I want to. Using that as an excuse, is no
excuse. Even the oft blasted code is little excuse these days,
being even the extra class only requires a measly 5 wpm. I hardly
even consider 5 wpm a usable speed as far as CW goes it's so slow
....
They will probably drop that before too long..Ham radio is what
*you* make it. If *you* ain't a ham, you can't really complain
much. Also, investing in a radio/s can be cheap, or expensive.
Both will work just fine. I'd hardly call myself loaded with cash,
and I've got three whole stations just sitting on this table I'm
at...
More radios on the floors...My first xmtr cost me nothing...Was
built with junk parts..You can get a decent HF rig for 200-300
bucks, or even less if you know where to look. I bought an older
yeasu 50w 2 meter rig for 40 bucks a while back...It's all up
to how much, or how little you wanna spend.. MK

The issue isn't whether I'm trying to enter the hobby or not or whether
I like taking meaningless tests. The issue is whether or not the hobby
is interesting enough to attract new blood. From what I have seen at
hamventions and heard on the bands there are few if any young people
attracted to the hobby. It is certainly easier to ignore an obvious
shift in ham radio demographics than to do something about it. But the
decision to do nothing will mean the hobby will continue to grey and
lose active members.

I'm not surprised to hear the FCC talk about taking spectrum dedicated
to amateur radio or that they are approving schemes that will surely
cause interference on the ham bands...are you? Maybe the FCC
recognizes that the ham community is not the force it once was.