Voyager probes in funding crisis
 

Voyager probes in funding crisis

Nasa's twin Voyager probes may have to close down in October to save money,
the US space agency has said.

Launched in 1977, Voyagers One and Two are now more than 14 billion and 11
billion km from Earth, respectively.

They are on their final mission to locate the boundary between the Sun's
domain and interstellar space.

But the agency's Earth-Sun System division has had to cut its budget for
next year from $74m to $53m, meaning that some projects will be abandoned.

Although the Voyager probes are thought to have another 15 years of life
left in them, they are very expensive to run, costing Nasa about $4.2m a
year for operations and data analysis.

Other missions like Ulysses, which was launched in 1990 to explore the Sun's
polar regions, might also have to be abandoned after the end of the fiscal
year in October.

Although the decision is not yet final, some Nasa scientists are preparing
themselves for the worst. Voyager project scientist Edward Stone of the
California Institute of Technology told Nature magazine: "We are currently
developing a plan for shutdown."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...re/4338245.stm

Published: 2005/03/10 19:58:54 GMT

© BBC MMV

In article ,=20
says...
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 04:29:10 -0800, "Max Power"
wrote:
=20
Voyager probes in funding crisis

Nasa's twin Voyager probes may have to close down in October to save mon=
ey,=20
the US space agency has said.

Launched in 1977, Voyagers One and Two are now more than 14 billion and =
11=20
billion km from Earth, respectively.

They are on their final mission to locate the boundary between the Sun's=
=20
domain and interstellar space.

But the agency's Earth-Sun System division has had to cut its budget for=
=20
next year from $74m to $53m, meaning that some projects will be abandone=
d.

Although the Voyager probes are thought to have another 15 years of life=
=20
left in them, they are very expensive to run, costing Nasa about $4.2m a=
=20
year for operations and data analysis.

Other missions like Ulysses, which was launched in 1990 to explore the S=
un's=20
polar regions, might also have to be abandoned after the end of the fisc=
al=20
year in October.

Although the decision is not yet final, some Nasa scientists are prepari=
ng=20
themselves for the worst. Voyager project scientist Edward Stone of the=
=20
California Institute of Technology told Nature magazine: "We are current=
ly=20
developing a plan for shutdown."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...re/4338245.stm

Published: 2005/03/10 19:58:54 GMT

=A9 BBC MMV=20


Bush will not finance any science project that conflicts with the
Bible.
=20
In other words, the probes might accidently run over God, while he
masturbates in some dark corner of Heaven.
=20
=20
stretching that thread of rampant paranoia just a little too tight with=20
that idea.

"Max Power" wrote in message
...
Voyager probes in funding crisis

Nasa's twin Voyager probes may have to close down in October to save
money,
the US space agency has said.

Launched in 1977, Voyagers One and Two are now more than 14 billion and
11
billion km from Earth, respectively.

They are on their final mission to locate the boundary between the Sun's
domain and interstellar space.

But the agency's Earth-Sun System division has had to cut its budget for
next year from $74m to $53m, meaning that some projects will be
abandoned.

Although the Voyager probes are thought to have another 15 years of life
left in them, they are very expensive to run, costing Nasa about $4.2m a
year for operations and data analysis.

4.2M a year to run two objects that are 14 billion km away from Earth
??????

I mean "Jeeze Louise"!

....and I thought Politicians were raping the Public Trust blind via
bullshi+ programs.

"David" wrote in message
...

Bush will not finance any science project that conflicts with the
Bible.

In other words, the probes might accidently run over God, while he
masturbates in some dark corner of Heaven.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.......................HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crap damm I laughed so freakin hard at that
one above, I just passed 3/4 a Cup of Pepsi thru
my nosehair passages!

Mr. Johnson
http://www.rathergood.com/mr_johnson/

"Sometimes a pile of **** is just a pile of ****, There is no pony."
- Abe the Pervert in alt.fan.big-tittie-necrobabes

"David" wrote

Bush will not finance any science project that conflicts with the
Bible.

In other words, the probes might accidently run over God, while he
masturbates in some dark corner of Heaven.


Spending Taxpayers' Money-Surprising Differences Between China and the U.S.

China's CCTV recently broadcast a program titled "Letting the World Get to
Know China." Mayor Cui of Weihai City, Shandong Province, China, and Mayor
Ives from Redmond, Washington were guests of the show. The mayors discussed
the construction and development going on in their cities. Towards the end
of the program, both mayors extended an invitation to the other to visit.

Their responses show us some surprising differences in the two societies.
Both mayors happily accepted the other's invitation; however, Mayor Ives
said that a trip to China was not in her city's budget. She explained that
office expenses are paid for by the taxpayers' money and that a personal
trip to China would require sponsorship rather than having Redmond residents
pay for it.

In contrast, Mayor Cui cheerfully accepted the invitation to visit
Washington without any concern about travel expenses. He also told Mayor
Ives without hesitation that he would pay for all her travel expenses to
China, which were calculated to be more than five thousand U.S. dollars or
over 40,000 Chinese yuan.
....
In China, however, anything that is considered a "public issue" will get
full reimbursement. For that reason, Mayor Cui does not need to worry about
paying for his trip out of his own pocket and can also cover Mayor Ives's
travel expenses. Several decades of the Communist Party's corrupt rule have
encouraged officials from various levels of government to selfishly satisfy
their personal interests to travel by calling it a "public issue." Each year
these corrupt officials consume several hundred million yuan of China's
income.

By spending more than 80,000 yuan of Chinese taxpayers' money, Mayor Cui
will be able to indulge in traveling and sightseeing without contributing
anything positive to China or its people. How many mayors in China are like
Mayor Cui? Untold millions of yuan have vanished like this.
....
http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-3-11/26970.html

The Chinese Ministry of Public Security estimates that approximately 500
corrupt CCP officials have fled overseas, taking with them combined assets
of US$8.46 billion. The corrupt officials have thus established an escape
path for others to follow: Transfer capital, send family members overseas,
prepare passports, abuse their power to enrich their pockets, quit their job
without notice and obtain legal resident status overseas.
....
Another abnormal phenomenon is that high-ranking CCP officials, who claim to
be atheistic, are frequently seen visiting temples, burning joss sticks and
seeking out the Buddha's blessing.
....
The recent phenomenon of high-ranking CCP officials seeking blessings from
gods and Buddha is a confirmation of the ancient saying of "Clinging to
Buddha's feet with one's last breath."
....
One Web user, Mr. Hebin reminds us that mice know when disaster approaches.
In English, it is said that rats will desert a sinking ship. It is not
difficult to deduce that the CCP will soon collapse while all of its high
officials flee the country in plain sight.

http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-3-11/26972.html

"Max Power" wrote in message
...
Voyager probes in funding crisis

Nasa's twin Voyager probes may have to close down in October to save
money,
the US space agency has said.

Launched in 1977, Voyagers One and Two are now more than 14 billion
and 11
billion km from Earth, respectively.

They are on their final mission to locate the boundary between the
Sun's
domain and interstellar space.

But the agency's Earth-Sun System division has had to cut its budget
for
next year from $74m to $53m, meaning that some projects will be
abandoned.

Although the Voyager probes are thought to have another 15 years of
life
left in them, they are very expensive to run, costing Nasa about
$4.2m a
year for operations and data analysis.

Other missions like Ulysses, which was launched in 1990 to explore
the Sun's
polar regions, might also have to be abandoned after the end of the
fiscal
year in October.

Although the decision is not yet final, some Nasa scientists are
preparing
themselves for the worst. Voyager project scientist Edward Stone of
the
California Institute of Technology told Nature magazine: "We are
currently
developing a plan for shutdown."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...re/4338245.stm

That's not 4.2 mil for the probes themselves, but to perform
monitoring and data analysis. The probes will continue
to transmit until their power is exhausted; it's a matter of
someone listening, examining the data, and storing it. That
is what would be shutdown. No one is going to fly out
to beyond the solar system and shut down the probes or
anything.

To be honest, I'm surprised that NASA was still devoting
money towards Voyager, since they had already succeeded
in their missions.

--Mike L.

In article ,
"Michael Lawson" wrote:

"Max Power" wrote in message
...
Voyager probes in funding crisis

Nasa's twin Voyager probes may have to close down in October to save
money,
the US space agency has said.

Launched in 1977, Voyagers One and Two are now more than 14 billion
and 11
billion km from Earth, respectively.

They are on their final mission to locate the boundary between the
Sun's
domain and interstellar space.

But the agency's Earth-Sun System division has had to cut its budget
for
next year from $74m to $53m, meaning that some projects will be
abandoned.

Although the Voyager probes are thought to have another 15 years of
life
left in them, they are very expensive to run, costing Nasa about
$4.2m a
year for operations and data analysis.

Other missions like Ulysses, which was launched in 1990 to explore
the Sun's
polar regions, might also have to be abandoned after the end of the
fiscal
year in October.

Although the decision is not yet final, some Nasa scientists are
preparing
themselves for the worst. Voyager project scientist Edward Stone of
the
California Institute of Technology told Nature magazine: "We are
currently
developing a plan for shutdown."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...re/4338245.stm

That's not 4.2 mil for the probes themselves, but to perform
monitoring and data analysis. The probes will continue
to transmit until their power is exhausted; it's a matter of
someone listening, examining the data, and storing it. That
is what would be shutdown. No one is going to fly out
to beyond the solar system and shut down the probes or
anything.

To be honest, I'm surprised that NASA was still devoting
money towards Voyager, since they had already succeeded
in their missions.

The science is never finished.

There is a new issue of the solar system passing into a more dense
galactic cloud of dust that can have serious implications for us on
earth. I want the funding to continue the examination of the solar
heliopause.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...&e=8&u=/space/
20050304/sc_space/hugespacecloudsmayhavecausedmassextinctions

The Mission Objective:
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/interstellar.html

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:27:46 -0600, "Li Changchun" chop

No one receives more handouts from the US government than the
businesses who finance the campaigns. Corporate welfare costs We the
People 3 times what all social entitlements cost.

Lobbyists write legislation and our prostitue ''lawmakers'' provide
the rubber stamp. If the People ever wake up, there will be blood in
the streets of Washington (aka Cracktown) ankle deep.

David wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:27:46 -0600, "Li Changchun" chop

No one receives more handouts from the US government than the
businesses who finance the campaigns. Corporate welfare costs We the
People 3 times what all social entitlements cost.

Lobbyists write legislation and our prostitue ''lawmakers'' provide
the rubber stamp. If the People ever wake up, there will be blood in
the streets of Washington (aka Cracktown) ankle deep.

Where do you live? 'Tardtown?

LMAO yet again at the 'tard.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"David" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:27:46 -0600, "Li Changchun" chop

No one receives more handouts from the US government than the
businesses who finance the campaigns. Corporate welfare costs We the
People 3 times what all social entitlements cost.

The business of America is "Business".

Lobbyists write legislation and our prostitue ''lawmakers'' provide
the rubber stamp. If the People ever wake up, there will be blood in
the streets of Washington (aka Cracktown) ankle deep.

Then vote for someone who doesn't or move to a place where only the
government
writes its own legislation - like P.R. China, N.Korea with free rubber
stamps.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:43:14 -0600, "Li Changchun"
wrote:


"David" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:27:46 -0600, "Li Changchun" chop

No one receives more handouts from the US government than the
businesses who finance the campaigns. Corporate welfare costs We the
People 3 times what all social entitlements cost.

The business of America is "Business".

Lobbyists write legislation and our prostitue ''lawmakers'' provide
the rubber stamp. If the People ever wake up, there will be blood in
the streets of Washington (aka Cracktown) ankle deep.

Then vote for someone who doesn't or move to a place where only the
government
writes its own legislation - like P.R. China, N.Korea with free rubber
stamps.

You miss the point. The corruption controls the media and therefore
the elections. Until the People get the media back (or learn to
ignore it) this will continue. There used to be rules that prevented
the media from being used for propaganda. Mr. reagan did away with
them. He was a very Unamerican person.

I see little difference between our system and any other toatlitarian
government.

David wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:43:14 -0600, "Li Changchun"
wrote:


"David" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:27:46 -0600, "Li Changchun" chop

No one receives more handouts from the US government than the
businesses who finance the campaigns. Corporate welfare costs We the
People 3 times what all social entitlements cost.

The business of America is "Business".

Lobbyists write legislation and our prostitue ''lawmakers'' provide
the rubber stamp. If the People ever wake up, there will be blood in
the streets of Washington (aka Cracktown) ankle deep.

Then vote for someone who doesn't or move to a place where only the
government
writes its own legislation - like P.R. China, N.Korea with free rubber
stamps.

You miss the point.

The *point* is on the top of your tin-foil hat.

Take your hand away from where it normally resides, reach up and touch your
other *point*, 'tard boy.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

I see little difference between our system and any other toatlitarian
government.


You obviously haven't traveled much - LOL

"David" wrote in message
...
SNIP
You miss the point. The corruption controls the media and therefore
the elections. Until the People get the media back (or learn to
ignore it) this will continue. There used to be rules that prevented
the media from being used for propaganda. Mr. reagan did away with
them. He was a very Unamerican person.

I see little difference between our system and any other toatlitarian
government.


ROTFL! That does it.....I'm going to send an extra fifty to the Special
Olympics.

David, I hope you win your race.

-- Stinger

Stinger wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
SNIP
You miss the point. The corruption controls the media and therefore
the elections. Until the People get the media back (or learn to
ignore it) this will continue. There used to be rules that prevented
the media from being used for propaganda. Mr. reagan did away with
them. He was a very Unamerican person.

I see little difference between our system and any other toatlitarian
government.


ROTFL! That does it.....I'm going to send an extra fifty to the Special
Olympics.

David, I hope you win your race.

He's already a weener.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:20:44 -0600, "Li Changchun"
wrote:


I see little difference between our system and any other toatlitarian
government.


You obviously haven't traveled much - LOL


You're right. Here we pay people to lie to us. Most places it's
free.

In article ,
says...


On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:20:44 -0600, "Li Changchun"
wrote:


I see little difference between our system and any other toatlitarian
government.


You obviously haven't traveled much - LOL


You're right. Here we pay people to lie to us. Most places it's
free.


presumably we get a much better grade of lies for the money we pay.
nothing of quality is free: you have to pay big-time to get the really
good lies. for example: WMD cost us $87billion.

In article ,
GM wrote:

In article ,
says...


On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:20:44 -0600, "Li Changchun"
wrote:


I see little difference between our system and any other toatlitarian
government.


You obviously haven't traveled much - LOL


You're right. Here we pay people to lie to us. Most places it's
free.


presumably we get a much better grade of lies for the money we pay.
nothing of quality is free: you have to pay big-time to get the really
good lies. for example: WMD cost us $87billion.

I don't like being lied to so fortunately it only cost me a few moments
time to kill file an off topic, warped, cross posting Troll such as
yourself.

Plonk

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

DaviD,

DaviD,

RHF wrote:

DaviD,
.
So now 'you' are advocating open Anarchy against the
US Government and the Killing of our Elected Leaders.
.
wht's next from david of the double 'd's ~ RHF

I believe that advocating violent revolt against the US government is
illegal. Maybe we should bring David's posts to the attention of the
FBI. Of course, *I* would never do that, just to get David off the
newsgroup permanently, but I can't speak for anybody else.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

DaviD

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Michael Lawson" wrote:

"Max Power" wrote in message
...
Voyager probes in funding crisis

Nasa's twin Voyager probes may have to close down in October to
save
money,
the US space agency has said.

Launched in 1977, Voyagers One and Two are now more than 14
billion
and 11
billion km from Earth, respectively.

They are on their final mission to locate the boundary between
the
Sun's
domain and interstellar space.

But the agency's Earth-Sun System division has had to cut its
budget
for
next year from $74m to $53m, meaning that some projects will be
abandoned.

Although the Voyager probes are thought to have another 15 years
of
life
left in them, they are very expensive to run, costing Nasa about
$4.2m a
year for operations and data analysis.

Other missions like Ulysses, which was launched in 1990 to
explore
the Sun's
polar regions, might also have to be abandoned after the end of
the
fiscal
year in October.

Although the decision is not yet final, some Nasa scientists are
preparing
themselves for the worst. Voyager project scientist Edward Stone
of
the
California Institute of Technology told Nature magazine: "We are
currently
developing a plan for shutdown."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...re/4338245.stm

That's not 4.2 mil for the probes themselves, but to perform
monitoring and data analysis. The probes will continue
to transmit until their power is exhausted; it's a matter of
someone listening, examining the data, and storing it. That
is what would be shutdown. No one is going to fly out
to beyond the solar system and shut down the probes or
anything.

To be honest, I'm surprised that NASA was still devoting
money towards Voyager, since they had already succeeded
in their missions.

The science is never finished.

There is a new issue of the solar system passing into a more dense
galactic cloud of dust that can have serious implications for us on
earth. I want the funding to continue the examination of the solar
heliopause.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...=96&e=8&u=/spa
ce/
20050304/sc_space/hugespacecloudsmayhavecausedmassextinctions

The Mission Objective:
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/interstellar.html

It might not be finished, but as with most funded projects,
there becomes a point of diminishing returns. If this project
were thrown in with all the other DoD and DoE funding
requests, I'd doubt it would have gotten a grant. The
response would have been something like: "Didn't you
finish this already?? We have other projects to fund."

--Mike L.

It took so many years to get to where they are. In another 15 years, they
would be passing through parts of the solar system fringes we will probably
never have access to for decades, if ever. Would be a pity to simply cut
them off and loose our link so far out into space... perhaps they can
consider an automated system to receive and log the data , and to only
trigger human intervention if a pre-determined change in data stream is
detected...

"Michael Lawson" wrote in message
...

"Max Power" wrote in message
...
Voyager probes in funding crisis

Nasa's twin Voyager probes may have to close down in October to save
money,
the US space agency has said.

Launched in 1977, Voyagers One and Two are now more than 14 billion
and 11
billion km from Earth, respectively.

They are on their final mission to locate the boundary between the
Sun's
domain and interstellar space.

But the agency's Earth-Sun System division has had to cut its budget
for
next year from $74m to $53m, meaning that some projects will be
abandoned.

Although the Voyager probes are thought to have another 15 years of
life
left in them, they are very expensive to run, costing Nasa about
$4.2m a
year for operations and data analysis.

Other missions like Ulysses, which was launched in 1990 to explore
the Sun's
polar regions, might also have to be abandoned after the end of the
fiscal
year in October.

Although the decision is not yet final, some Nasa scientists are
preparing
themselves for the worst. Voyager project scientist Edward Stone of
the
California Institute of Technology told Nature magazine: "We are
currently
developing a plan for shutdown."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...re/4338245.stm

That's not 4.2 mil for the probes themselves, but to perform
monitoring and data analysis. The probes will continue
to transmit until their power is exhausted; it's a matter of
someone listening, examining the data, and storing it. That
is what would be shutdown. No one is going to fly out
to beyond the solar system and shut down the probes or
anything.

To be honest, I'm surprised that NASA was still devoting
money towards Voyager, since they had already succeeded
in their missions.

--Mike L.

On 13/03/2005 10:16 PM, RHF wrote:

"Mr. reagan did away with them.
He was a very Unamerican person."
.
NOTE - It is 'former' US President Ronald W Reagan [.]

[Removed cross-post]

I think former presidents are now referred to simply as "President."
The honourific is for life, now. I recall some discussion around this
when the protocol was changed.

On 13 Mar 2005 19:16:05 -0800, "RHF"
wrote:

DaviD,
.
"Mr. reagan did away with them.
He was a very Unamerican person."
.
NOTE - It is 'former' US President Ronald W Reagan [.]
[ May He Rest-In-Pease Amen ]
.
DaviD - So 'you' are to be the "Judge"
of what is American and UN-american !
.
How so typical of a Political Cadre
of the Democrat Party of the USA.
.
Liberal ELITIST - Who believe that 'only' They
have the Right to Sit-in-Judgement of all others.
.
DaviD - If 'you' and the Liberal ELITIST Rule "The World"
. . . Would "The World" be a Better Place ? ? ?
.
beware the one world liberal elitist socialists (owles) ~ RHF
The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
by Lawrence Britt
Spring 2003
Free Inquiry magazine


Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about
fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20).
Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy),
Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt
found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the
identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance
with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics a

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes,
slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen
everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.


Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in
fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in
certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way
or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long
incarcerations of prisoners, etc.


Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need
to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
etc.


Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is
given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the
domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are
glamorized.


Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively
male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are
made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and
anti-gay legislation and national policy.


Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in
other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government
regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.
Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.


Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.


Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in
the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric
and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major
tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's
policies or actions.


Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are
the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a
mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.


Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a
fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or
are severely suppressed .


Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher
education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other
academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts
is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.


Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to
enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses
and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is
often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in
fascist nations.


Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and
associates who appoint each other to government positions and use
governmental power and authority to protect their friends from
accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national
resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright
stolen by government leaders.


Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other
times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even
assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control
voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of
the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to
manipulate or control elections.



Copyright © 2003 Free Inquiry magazine
Reprinted for Fair Use Only.

"David" wrote in message
...


On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:20:44 -0600, "Li Changchun"
wrote:


I see little difference between our system and any other toatlitarian
government.


You obviously haven't traveled much - LOL


You're right. Here we pay people to lie to us. Most places it's
free.

Correct. You do it here daily.

CLVRMNKY,

"David" wrote in message
...
SNIP
I suggest you study-up on your American history before making these
absurd pronouncements about my Patriotism. Blindly following despots
in not in the spirit of the Founding Fathers.

Protest is the highest form of patriotism. Reagan reduced Freedom of
Speech when he allowed broadcasters to censor opinion. Not in the
great tradition of open thought that our country is founded upon.

Look it up.


Protest is not a "form of patriotism." Protest is an act that patriots may
actually do from time to time, but is not in itself patriotism. Protest (or
dissent) that is based on socialist or Marxist principles such as the ones
you continually espouse against the values and freedoms of Americans is at
best "kookery," and most of us see it (and you) as just that.

Not that I want to give you any ideas, but if you decided to picket a
grocery store because they sell Swiss cheese and you don't like anything
Swiss, you would not be a patriot. You'd be a kook. Understand?

Now, it is interesting that you apparently believe that you're now able to
channel "the spirits of our founding fathers," and think that they would
actually support your ludicrous positions.

Unless you had significant amounts of land and property, our founding
fathers didn't think you should be voting. And David, unless I'm way off in
my assessment of your lowly station in life (after all, you're always
wanting to help yourself to the fruits of others' labors through excessive
taxation so you can be provided for through government), they were wise
indeed.

-- Stinger

Might as well have known a canaDUHian (canaDUH outlawed the BIBLE) would
say something like that.That is how canaDUH thinks,that is why canaDUH
is worse than a third world country.
cuhulin

Pepsi through your nose? Ever get a bean stuck in your mouth/throat area
where that bean isn't suppose to be?
cuhulin

.....new issue of the solar system passing through a more dense galactic
cloud,,,,,, It is not new news at all.I have said it in this news group
before that I read in a magazine many years ago that our solar system
passes through the "fingers" of the Van Oort Constelation and perhaps
that is the reason or part of the reason our Earth has Ice ages and then
warms back up when Earth passes on through the "fingers" of the Van Oort
Constelation.
cuhulin

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:24:34 -0600, "Stinger"
wrote:


"David" wrote in message
.. .
SNIP
I suggest you study-up on your American history before making these
absurd pronouncements about my Patriotism. Blindly following despots
in not in the spirit of the Founding Fathers.

Protest is the highest form of patriotism. Reagan reduced Freedom of
Speech when he allowed broadcasters to censor opinion. Not in the
great tradition of open thought that our country is founded upon.

Look it up.


Protest is not a "form of patriotism." Protest is an act that patriots may
actually do from time to time, but is not in itself patriotism. Protest (or
dissent) that is based on socialist or Marxist principles such as the ones
you continually espouse against the values and freedoms of Americans is at
best "kookery," and most of us see it (and you) as just that.

Not that I want to give you any ideas, but if you decided to picket a
grocery store because they sell Swiss cheese and you don't like anything
Swiss, you would not be a patriot. You'd be a kook. Understand?

Now, it is interesting that you apparently believe that you're now able to
channel "the spirits of our founding fathers," and think that they would
actually support your ludicrous positions.

Unless you had significant amounts of land and property, our founding
fathers didn't think you should be voting. And David, unless I'm way off in
my assessment of your lowly station in life (after all, you're always
wanting to help yourself to the fruits of others' labors through excessive
taxation so you can be provided for through government), they were wise
indeed.

-- Stinger
You make a lot of assumptions, almost all of them wrong.


''All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
conscience to remain silent.''

Thomas Jefferson

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:24:34 -0600, "Stinger"
wrote:


"David" wrote in message
.. .
SNIP
I suggest you study-up on your American history before making these
absurd pronouncements about my Patriotism. Blindly following despots
in not in the spirit of the Founding Fathers.

Protest is the highest form of patriotism. Reagan reduced Freedom of
Speech when he allowed broadcasters to censor opinion. Not in the
great tradition of open thought that our country is founded upon.

Look it up.


Protest is not a "form of patriotism." Protest is an act that patriots
may
actually do from time to time, but is not in itself patriotism. Protest
(or
dissent) that is based on socialist or Marxist principles such as the
ones
you continually espouse against the values and freedoms of Americans is
at
best "kookery," and most of us see it (and you) as just that.

Not that I want to give you any ideas, but if you decided to picket a
grocery store because they sell Swiss cheese and you don't like anything
Swiss, you would not be a patriot. You'd be a kook. Understand?

Now, it is interesting that you apparently believe that you're now able
to
channel "the spirits of our founding fathers," and think that they would
actually support your ludicrous positions.

Unless you had significant amounts of land and property, our founding
fathers didn't think you should be voting. And David, unless I'm way off
in
my assessment of your lowly station in life (after all, you're always
wanting to help yourself to the fruits of others' labors through
excessive
taxation so you can be provided for through government), they were wise
indeed.

-- Stinger
You make a lot of assumptions, almost all of them wrong.

Says you.

All of the "assumptions" I make are the RIGHT assumptions! It must
really HURT! being a canaDUHian.Are y'all canaDUHians in pain all day
long,every year? Do y'all canaDUHians have hot flashes all the time?
Something sure is WRONG! with y'all canaDUHians,that is for SURE! That
Stupid Red Green tv series,every once in a while they make Stupid anti
American comments,do y'all Stupid canaDUHians think I haven't noticed
that,many times before? STUPID canaDUHians! They outlawed the BIBLE.
cuhulin

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:34:53 -0500, "Michael Lawson"
wrote:


You make a lot of assumptions, almost all of them wrong.


''All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
conscience to remain silent.''

Thomas Jefferson

"A little rebellion now and then is a good thing."

Thomas Jefferson

Like most people, you can pick a quote from someone famous
to either refute or concur with your arguments. Famous names
do not make an argument work; it should stand on it's own
merits.

--Mike L.

Jefferson and Madison and Franklin left thousand of pages of writing
revealing a lot about the underlying philosophy upon which this nation
was founded. Unfortunately we live in a culture of sound bites.

I will say I know that the USA was started to get away from the kind
of people we have running the country now. That this despotic rule is
largely our own fault for being mindless and cowardly couch potatoes
unwilling to find out what is really happening because it makes us
feel uncomfortable.

"David" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:34:53 -0500, "Michael Lawson"
wrote:


You make a lot of assumptions, almost all of them wrong.


''All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
conscience to remain silent.''

Thomas Jefferson

"A little rebellion now and then is a good thing."

Thomas Jefferson

Like most people, you can pick a quote from someone famous
to either refute or concur with your arguments. Famous names
do not make an argument work; it should stand on it's own
merits.

--Mike L.

Jefferson and Madison and Franklin left thousand of pages of writing
revealing a lot about the underlying philosophy upon which this nation
was founded. Unfortunately we live in a culture of sound bites.

I will say I know that the USA was started to get away from the kind
of people we have running the country now. That this despotic rule is
largely our own fault for being mindless and cowardly couch potatoes
unwilling to find out what is really happening because it makes us
feel uncomfortable.

What do you mean? Kerry lost. The left only cares about the 1st ammendment,
they would gut the remaining ammendments if givin the chance.

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:24:34 -0600, "Stinger"
wrote:


"David" wrote in message
. ..
SNIP
I suggest you study-up on your American history before making these
absurd pronouncements about my Patriotism. Blindly following despots
in not in the spirit of the Founding Fathers.

Protest is the highest form of patriotism. Reagan reduced Freedom of
Speech when he allowed broadcasters to censor opinion. Not in the
great tradition of open thought that our country is founded upon.

Look it up.


Protest is not a "form of patriotism." Protest is an act that patriots
may
actually do from time to time, but is not in itself patriotism. Protest
(or
dissent) that is based on socialist or Marxist principles such as the ones
you continually espouse against the values and freedoms of Americans is at
best "kookery," and most of us see it (and you) as just that.

Not that I want to give you any ideas, but if you decided to picket a
grocery store because they sell Swiss cheese and you don't like anything
Swiss, you would not be a patriot. You'd be a kook. Understand?

Now, it is interesting that you apparently believe that you're now able to
channel "the spirits of our founding fathers," and think that they would
actually support your ludicrous positions.

Unless you had significant amounts of land and property, our founding
fathers didn't think you should be voting. And David, unless I'm way off
in
my assessment of your lowly station in life (after all, you're always
wanting to help yourself to the fruits of others' labors through excessive
taxation so you can be provided for through government), they were wise
indeed.

-- Stinger
You make a lot of assumptions, almost all of them wrong.


Oh really? Don't tell us you're another jet-setting debate coach with a
PhD! LOL!

-- Stinger

Stinger wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:24:34 -0600, "Stinger"
wrote:


"David" wrote in message
. ..
SNIP
I suggest you study-up on your American history before making these
absurd pronouncements about my Patriotism. Blindly following despots
in not in the spirit of the Founding Fathers.

Protest is the highest form of patriotism. Reagan reduced Freedom of
Speech when he allowed broadcasters to censor opinion. Not in the
great tradition of open thought that our country is founded upon.

Look it up.


Protest is not a "form of patriotism." Protest is an act that patriots
may
actually do from time to time, but is not in itself patriotism. Protest
(or
dissent) that is based on socialist or Marxist principles such as the ones
you continually espouse against the values and freedoms of Americans is at
best "kookery," and most of us see it (and you) as just that.

Not that I want to give you any ideas, but if you decided to picket a
grocery store because they sell Swiss cheese and you don't like anything
Swiss, you would not be a patriot. You'd be a kook. Understand?

Now, it is interesting that you apparently believe that you're now able to
channel "the spirits of our founding fathers," and think that they would
actually support your ludicrous positions.

Unless you had significant amounts of land and property, our founding
fathers didn't think you should be voting. And David, unless I'm way off
in
my assessment of your lowly station in life (after all, you're always
wanting to help yourself to the fruits of others' labors through excessive
taxation so you can be provided for through government), they were wise
indeed.

-- Stinger
You make a lot of assumptions, almost all of them wrong.


Oh really? Don't tell us you're another jet-setting debate coach with a
PhD! LOL!

That was excellent! I had forgotten about the jet-setting gig!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Stinger wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:24:34 -0600, "Stinger"
wrote:


"David" wrote in message
. ..
SNIP
I suggest you study-up on your American history before making these
absurd pronouncements about my Patriotism. Blindly following
despots
in not in the spirit of the Founding Fathers.

Protest is the highest form of patriotism. Reagan reduced Freedom
of
Speech when he allowed broadcasters to censor opinion. Not in the
great tradition of open thought that our country is founded upon.

Look it up.


Protest is not a "form of patriotism." Protest is an act that
patriots
may
actually do from time to time, but is not in itself patriotism.
Protest
(or
dissent) that is based on socialist or Marxist principles such as the
ones
you continually espouse against the values and freedoms of Americans
is at
best "kookery," and most of us see it (and you) as just that.

Not that I want to give you any ideas, but if you decided to picket a
grocery store because they sell Swiss cheese and you don't like
anything
Swiss, you would not be a patriot. You'd be a kook. Understand?

Now, it is interesting that you apparently believe that you're now
able to
channel "the spirits of our founding fathers," and think that they
would
actually support your ludicrous positions.

Unless you had significant amounts of land and property, our founding
fathers didn't think you should be voting. And David, unless I'm way
off
in
my assessment of your lowly station in life (after all, you're always
wanting to help yourself to the fruits of others' labors through
excessive
taxation so you can be provided for through government), they were
wise
indeed.

-- Stinger
You make a lot of assumptions, almost all of them wrong.


Oh really? Don't tell us you're another jet-setting debate coach with a
PhD! LOL!

That was excellent! I had forgotten about the jet-setting gig!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

I wonder what ol MWB is up to these days.