bpnjensen wrote:

Uncle Arnie wrote:

Any bleeding heart who wants to pursue this issue should
first travel to Labrador and visit a few Innu communities which were
devastated by the 1970's boycott, and a few outports on the island of
Nfld.

Your compassion may stop at the human-nonhuman boundary, but mine does
not. People who live by being unnecessarily brutal to others,
including animals, have no right to expect people of humanity to
support their livelihoods.

The murder of 320,000 seals, adults or children, is nothing more than
unjust genocide.

Bruce Jensen

Ever visited a slaughterhouse? Are you a vegetarian? The seal hunt is not
cruel. No more than the raising of animals for food, no more than the
fishing of the oceans for food.

bpnjensen wrote:

What about all the fish being "unjustly" eaten by the excess seal
population? Is that genocide too??? Where is your compassion for the
poor defenseless fishies ???

You're a noodlehead if you think this analogy is worth a plug nickel.
I'm not going to get into it with an illogist.

Bruce Jensen

"Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
if a sperm gets wasted, God gets quite irate."
(The Meaning of Life, Monty Python)

Eskimos have been killing and eating Seals for hundreds of years and
they will continue to do so for many,many more years too.Big deal,so
what? There is no shortage on Seals.I bet they make good eating too.
cuhulin

Ever visited a slaughterhouse?

No. Seen plenty of pix.

Are you a vegetarian?

Yes.

The seal hunt is not cruel

Bull**** it isn't. Worse, it is unnecessary...and unjust.

No more than the raising of animals for food, no more than the
fishing of the oceans for food.

I agree with this - it's all quite cruel...and mostly unjust too.

Bruce Jensen

bpnjensen wrote:

Ever visited a slaughterhouse?

No. Seen plenty of pix.

Are you a vegetarian?

Yes.

The seal hunt is not cruel

Bull**** it isn't. Worse, it is unnecessary...and unjust.

No more than the raising of animals for fooJakeo more than the
fishing of the oceans for food.

I agree with this - it's all quite cruel...and mostly unjust too.

Bruce Jensen

So you murder carrots and potatoes, grains, etc? To suggest that plants are
somehow "less" than animals is species-ist (racism applied to other forms
of life). Ever swatted a mosquito, taken an antibiotic or washed your
hands? I wonder how many life forms die everyday from these activities?

To say the seal hunt is unnecessary is to apply beliefs from foreign
cultures on others, a form of neo-colonialism. It is very easy to sit in a
warm building or house with all the trappings of civilisation and judge
those who live in primitive conditions, where they are trying to eke out a
life. Before you judge the seal hunt as unnecessary and unjust, visit Nfld
and Labrador and see how the people live, and how they make their living.
Many communities have no power, no centralized water source, no plumbing,
no services. People live in these areas like they have for 1000's of years
in the case of the Innu and 400 years in the case of the immigrants. In the
cold, on the rock and in the bush. Most people have only a faint grasp from
images in the media or movies such as the Shipping News. The destruction
of a people can begin with the denigration of their lifestyle, traditions
and history. It'd do many "civilized" people good to go on a hunt with a
traditional people and maybe get preached to back. As the low flying NATO
jets cause the moose to loose their pregnancies, and the environment gets
destroyed due to the trappings of "modern" civilization. You assume that
the images you have seen of sealing are accompanied by thoughts and
feelings that you or people you know would have if they undertook the hunt.
This is not it at all and very self centred.

uncle arnie wrote:

bpnjensen wrote:

Ever visited a slaughterhouse?

No. Seen plenty of pix.

Are you a vegetarian?

Yes.

The seal hunt is not cruel

Bull**** it isn't. Worse, it is unnecessary...and unjust.

No more than the raising of animals for fooJakeo more than the
fishing of the oceans for food.

I agree with this - it's all quite cruel...and mostly unjust too.

Bruce Jensen

So you murder carrots and potatoes, grains, etc? To suggest that plants are
somehow "less" than animals is species-ist (racism applied to other forms
of life). Ever swatted a mosquito, taken an antibiotic or washed your
hands? I wonder how many life forms die everyday from these activities?

To say the seal hunt is unnecessary is to apply beliefs from foreign
cultures on others, a form of neo-colonialism. It is very easy to sit in a
warm building or house with all the trappings of civilisation and judge
those who live in primitive conditions, where they are trying to eke out a
life. Before you judge the seal hunt as unnecessary and unjust, visit Nfld
and Labrador and see how the people live, and how they make their living.
Many communities have no power, no centralized water source, no plumbing,
no services. People live in these areas like they have for 1000's of years
in the case of the Innu and 400 years in the case of the immigrants. In the
cold, on the rock and in the bush. Most people have only a faint grasp from
images in the media or movies such as the Shipping News. The destruction
of a people can begin with the denigration of their lifestyle, traditions
and history. It'd do many "civilized" people good to go on a hunt with a
traditional people and maybe get preached to back. As the low flying NATO
jets cause the moose to loose their pregnancies, and the environment gets
destroyed due to the trappings of "modern" civilization. You assume that
the images you have seen of sealing are accompanied by thoughts and
feelings that you or people you know would have if they undertook the hunt.
This is not it at all and very self centred.

Gotta agree with you on this one Arnie.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

bpnjensen wrote:

Ever visited a slaughterhouse?

No. Seen plenty of pix.

Are you a vegetarian?

Yes.

The seal hunt is not cruel

Bull**** it isn't. Worse, it is unnecessary...and unjust.

No more than the raising of animals for food, no more than the
fishing of the oceans for food.

I agree with this - it's all quite cruel...and mostly unjust too.

What do the seals eat to survive? Air?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

So you murder carrots and potatoes, grains, etc? To suggest that
plants are
somehow "less" than animals is species-ist (racism applied to other
forms
of life). Ever swatted a mosquito, taken an antibiotic or washed your
hands? I wonder how many life forms die everyday from these activities?


Once again, accosted by an apologist for the murder industries who uses
false logic and ridiculous analogies to uphold both the murderers and
his own chosen lifestyle. It is this simple, Arnie:

I do not need meat to thrive. The killing of anything I do not need to
survive is unjustified. Therefore, the killing of animals and eating
them is unjustified, unless it is in self-defense or a life-or-death
emergency.

Where the eating of foods is necessary to survive (and to survive I do
need to eat something), then it is justified. This why it is OK for
seals to eat fish.

Maybe the people who choose to live on rocks and bushes made a damn
poor choice. In any case, it is not OK to kill a huge proportion of
the seal population to sell off furs and increase the fisheries, which
off the east coast have been grossly depleted by rampant fishing. If
they need to kill some seals to get through a particularly harsh
winter, fine - but you won't convince me that wholesale slaughter is
justified at all.

Beyond this, it is impossible to have a logical discussion about almost
anything controversial on this medium with a person who argues using
illogism, so I won't even try. Suffice it to say that I choose to take
the least harmful and least cruel way. You may choose to take a more
cruel way; that is still perfectly legal, if morally bankrupt. If you
post supporting cruelty, I will point out where I think you're a
barbarian. I don't especially care if you like it or not, agree with
it or not.

The last word is yours.

Bruce Jensen

bpnjensen wrote:

So you murder carrots and potatoes, grains, etc? To suggest that
plants are
somehow "less" than animals is species-ist (racism applied to other
forms
of life). Ever swatted a mosquito, taken an antibiotic or washed your
hands? I wonder how many life forms die everyday from these activities?


Once again, accosted by an apologist for the murder industries who uses
false logic and ridiculous analogies to uphold both the murderers and
his own chosen lifestyle. It is this simple, Arnie:

I do not need meat to thrive. The killing of anything I do not need to
survive is unjustified. Therefore, the killing of animals and eating
them is unjustified, unless it is in self-defense or a life-or-death
emergency.

Where the eating of foods is necessary to survive (and to survive I do
need to eat something), then it is justified. This why it is OK for
seals to eat fish.

Maybe the people who choose to live on rocks and bushes made a damn
poor choice. In any case, it is not OK to kill a huge proportion of
the seal population to sell off furs and increase the fisheries, which
off the east coast have been grossly depleted by rampant fishing. If
they need to kill some seals to get through a particularly harsh
winter, fine - but you won't convince me that wholesale slaughter is
justified at all.

Beyond this, it is impossible to have a logical discussion about almost
anything controversial on this medium with a person who argues using
illogism, so I won't even try. Suffice it to say that I choose to take
the least harmful and least cruel way. You may choose to take a more
cruel way; that is still perfectly legal, if morally bankrupt. If you
post supporting cruelty, I will point out where I think you're a
barbarian. I don't especially care if you like it or not, agree with
it or not.

The last word is yours.

Bruce Jensen

I respect your response, but it is still ethnocentric. Will you take people
into your country as immigrants so they don't have to live this way. You
personally do not have to eat meat to survive, but that does not allow you
or any one else to look down their noses in a "holier than thou" manner on
others. What is a "life or death" emergency? Is it okay for someone to
hunt so they can provide minimal sustenance to their family? or should the
children have no opportunity beyond their parents. Nfld has exported more
people than most other jurisdictions b/c their parents did what they had to
do to survive and provide opportunity to their kids. And yes this included
importing moose from the mainland (where they didn't previously live) as a
food source for the people. You cannot grow a garden in Nfld. It's rocks
and trees and no vegetables grow in the harsh climate. So everything is
either imported or local. And all there is is canned stuff in the stores,
or very expensive fresh things, and fish and game. So they hunt some seals
so they can buy some canned fruit, notebooks for the kids, coats and shoes.
Gas for the boat. I really think you have no idea.

Would you move the Inuit out of the arctic also? (Inuit = what you may call
Eskimo).

I don't think the last word is mine. You suggest "illogism". I suggest not
judging others by your external standards of morality.

And what do the Polar Bears eat? I say,Seals,Otters,Fish and whatever
else kinds of critters that swim,walk or crawl around.I remember seeing
a big stuffed Polar Bear in the lounge area at the Airport in
Anchorage,Alaska in January 1964.I wonder if that Polar Bear is still
standing there with it's paws outstretched as if it's going to reach out
and gitcha? When Polar Bears are stalking their prey,they will cover
their noses with one of their paws so as to blend in better agains't the
snow.
cuhulin