Some people who claim to "know" things know nothing at all. I have
nothing against "Catholics" I just think their religion stinks!

The point is they worship Mary when God says to worship Him.

They call their priests father, holy father and most holy father when
Christ says call NO MAN father on this earth because Christians have a
HEAVENLY FATHER.

The list could go on for page after page after page.

Go down to the woods and get yourself a stick, or go to Home Depot and
get a board. Make yourself a nice paddle and stir all the stink you like.

Lu 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall
separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out
your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.

Mt 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you,
and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

=============

§ Dr. Artaud § wrote:

Al Patrick wrote in
:

Hi Al, I'm still waiting for the response to my last posts to you. I
remember that you made some amorphous comments, but nothing of substance.
I know that you are consumed by your hatred for Catholics, I just wonder
why?

I suspect a little too much Brother Stair and Pastor Peters and a little
too little critical thinking on your part. Also, I just don't understand
why people such as yourself feel free to pick and choose what you wish to
adhere to in the Bible and what you wish to ignore.

On an interesting note, Alex Jones is currently listening to a caller
with, you guessed it, the belief that Catholics are trying to destroy the
U.S. Constitution. I truly feel sorry for those like Al Patrick who spend
every waking moment suffering neurosis about Catholics.

Unlike Stadtmiller, Alex kicks the callers ass. The caller indicated that
there was a conspiracy in the 1800s to gain control of the U.S. by
immigrating Irish and Italians to the U.S., in theory, since they are
Catholics, therefore they will gain control. Alex puts him in his place
by saying that if they were trying to do this, they were failing since
the U.S. Catholic Church is falling apart. He also mentioned the
unfortunate demise of President Kennedy, also a Catholic. The caller
believes that the Catholic Church is immigrating Mexicans to try to gain
control, just like Al Patrick believes. (Maybe it was Al).

Contrary to your belief, Faith alone is likely not sufficient.

James 2:20 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is
dead also.

How about a refresher on my original comments. You seem to have a fear of
Scarlet and Purple, a complete disregard for "Love your enemy", as well
as obsessed by the Whore of Babylon. I posted the following, quoting from
the King James version, yet you did not answer.


With Regards Always

Dr. Artaud



1 John 4:20 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he
that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom
he hath not seen?

Or:

Luke 6:27-38 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which
hate you,

Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and
him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy
goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also
love those that love them.

And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for
sinners also do even the same.


Exodus 28:4 (King James Version)
And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an
ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they
shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may
minister unto me in the priest's office.
And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine
linen.
And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of
scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.
And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the
same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple,
and scarlet, and fine twined linen.


"#4: Clothed in Purple and Red
Hunt states, "She [the Whore] is clothed in 'purple and scarlet' (verse
4), the colors of the Catholic clergy." He then cites the Catholic
Encyclopedia to show that bishops wear certain purple vestments and
cardinals wear certain red vestments.

Hunt ignores the obvious symbolic meaning of the colors-purple for
royalty and red for the blood of Christian martyrs. Instead, he is
suddenly literal in his interpretation. He understood well enough that
the woman symbolizes a city and that the fornication symbolizes something
other than literal sex, but now he wants to assign the colors a literal,
earthly fulfillment in a few vestments of certain Catholic clergy.

Purple and red are not the dominant colors of Catholic clerical
vestments. White is. All priests wear white (including bishops and
cardinals when they are saying Mass)-even the pope does so.

The purple and scarlet of the Whore are contrasted with the white of the
New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ (Rev. 19:8). This is a problem for
Hunt for three reasons: (a) we have already noted that the dominant color
of Catholic clerical vestments is white, which would identify them with
New Jerusalem if the color is taken literally; (b) the clothing of the
Bride is given a symbolic interpretation ("the righteous acts of the
saints;" 19:8); implying that the clothing of the Whore should also be
given a symbolic meaning; and (c) the identification of the Bride as New
Jerusalem (Rev. 3:12, 21:2, 10) suggests that the Whore may be old
(apostate) Jerusalem-a contrast used elsewhere in Scripture (Gal.
4:25-26).

Hunt ignores the liturgical meaning of purple and red in Catholic
symbolism. Purple symbolizes repentance, and red honors the blood of
Christ and the Christian martyrs.

It is appropriate for Catholic clerics to wear purple and scarlet, if for
no other reason because they have been liturgical colors of the true
religion since ancient Israel.

Hunt neglects to remind his readers that God commanded that scarlet yarn
and wool be used in liturgical ceremonies (Lev. 14:4, 6, 49-52; Num.
19:6), and that God commanded that the priests' vestments be made with
purple and scarlet yarn (Ex. 28:4-8, 15, 33, 39:1-8, 24, 29)."


http://www.catholic.com/library/Hunt...of_Babylon.asp
"The Greek word in this passage is horos. Of the sixty-five occurrences
of this word in the New Testament, only three are rendered "hill" by the
King James Version. The remaining sixty-two are translated as "mountain"
or "mount." Modern Bibles have similar ratios. If the passage states that
the Whore sits on "seven mountains," it could refer to anything.
Mountains are common biblical symbols, often symbolizing whole kingdoms
(cf. Ps. 68:15; Dan. 2:35; Amos 4:1, 6:1; Obad. 8-21). The Whore's seven
mountains might be seven kingdoms she reigns over, or seven kingdoms with
which she has something in common."

Al Patrick wrote in
:

Some people who claim to "know" things know nothing at all. I have
nothing against "Catholics" I just think their religion stinks!

Well, in fact Al, believing that Catholicism stinks is having something
against Catholics. I certainly uphold your right to your opinions, even
your right to express your opinions, that is why I read your posts and
that is what America is all about.


The point is they worship Mary when God says to worship Him.

They call their priests father, holy father and most holy father when
Christ says call NO MAN father on this earth because Christians have a
HEAVENLY FATHER.

What's the matter Al, don't you have (or didn't you have, if he is
deceased) an earthly father? Indeed I would imagine that most "born
again" Christians have fathers, not limited to the one of which you
speak.

The problem with your following comments Al is that I don't hate you, you
hate me. You essentially are describing your feeling towards Catholics,
you hate and revile them, therefore they are "Blessed". Thanks for your
tacit endorsement. Think about it Al, you and others of your ilk hate and
revile a specific group, so they must indeed be blessed.

Al, don't martyr yourself. I think that you enjoy the harsh comments that
other posters make against you. You believe that this empowers you
somehow, and that you are doing the good work. In some ways you are, but
you are allowing yourself to be consumed by hatred, and you know that it
is in direct contravention to God's laws.

Luke 6:29-31 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and
him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy
goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.


Luke 6:35 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for
sinners also do even the same.

And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye?
for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing
again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of
the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.



Al, how much, other than self imposed martyrdom, are you implementing the
above verses? I suspect Al that you are not interested in God's words,
but in those of Al Patrick, Brother Stair, and Pastor Peters. You cannot
be a Godly man filled with hatred, there is no such thing.

God Bless (seriously) Al, and regards.

Dr. Artaud

P.S., where's your answer to my post listed below? You are a rascally
one, you keep avoiding addressing these issues.



The list could go on for page after page after page.

Go down to the woods and get yourself a stick, or go to Home Depot and
get a board. Make yourself a nice paddle and stir all the stink you
like.

Lu 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall
separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out
your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.

Mt 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you,
and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.


1 John 4:20 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for
he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God
whom he hath not seen?

Or:

Luke 6:27-38 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them
which hate you,

Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use
you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other;
and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away
thy goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them
likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners
also love those that love them.

And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye?
for sinners also do even the same.


Exodus 28:4 (King James Version)
And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and
an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle:
and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his
sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine
linen.
And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of
scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.
And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of
the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and
purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.


"#4: Clothed in Purple and Red
Hunt states, "She [the Whore] is clothed in 'purple and scarlet'
(verse 4), the colors of the Catholic clergy." He then cites the
Catholic Encyclopedia to show that bishops wear certain purple
vestments and cardinals wear certain red vestments.

Hunt ignores the obvious symbolic meaning of the colors-purple for
royalty and red for the blood of Christian martyrs. Instead, he is
suddenly literal in his interpretation. He understood well enough
that the woman symbolizes a city and that the fornication symbolizes
something other than literal sex, but now he wants to assign the
colors a literal, earthly fulfillment in a few vestments of certain
Catholic clergy.

Purple and red are not the dominant colors of Catholic clerical
vestments. White is. All priests wear white (including bishops and
cardinals when they are saying Mass)-even the pope does so.

The purple and scarlet of the Whore are contrasted with the white of
the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ (Rev. 19:8). This is a problem
for Hunt for three reasons: (a) we have already noted that the
dominant color of Catholic clerical vestments is white, which would
identify them with New Jerusalem if the color is taken literally; (b)
the clothing of the Bride is given a symbolic interpretation ("the
righteous acts of the saints;" 19:8); implying that the clothing of
the Whore should also be given a symbolic meaning; and (c) the
identification of the Bride as New Jerusalem (Rev. 3:12, 21:2, 10)
suggests that the Whore may be old (apostate) Jerusalem-a contrast
used elsewhere in Scripture (Gal. 4:25-26).

Hunt ignores the liturgical meaning of purple and red in Catholic
symbolism. Purple symbolizes repentance, and red honors the blood of
Christ and the Christian martyrs.

It is appropriate for Catholic clerics to wear purple and scarlet, if
for no other reason because they have been liturgical colors of the
true religion since ancient Israel.

Hunt neglects to remind his readers that God commanded that scarlet
yarn and wool be used in liturgical ceremonies (Lev. 14:4, 6, 49-52;
Num. 19:6), and that God commanded that the priests' vestments be
made with purple and scarlet yarn (Ex. 28:4-8, 15, 33, 39:1-8, 24,
29)."

http://www.catholic.com/library/Hunt...of_Babylon.asp
"The Greek word in this passage is horos. Of the sixty-five
occurrences of this word in the New Testament, only three are
rendered "hill" by the King James Version. The remaining sixty-two
are translated as "mountain" or "mount." Modern Bibles have similar
ratios. If the passage states that the Whore sits on "seven
mountains," it could refer to anything. Mountains are common biblical
symbols, often symbolizing whole kingdoms (cf. Ps. 68:15; Dan. 2:35;
Amos 4:1, 6:1; Obad. 8-21). The Whore's seven mountains might be
seven kingdoms she reigns over, or seven kingdoms with which she has
something in common."

Al Patrick wrote:

Some people who claim to "know" things know nothing at all. I have
nothing against "Catholics" I just think their religion stinks!

The point is they worship Mary when God says to worship Him.

I would think you need to look at this deeper. They don't worship Mary or ANY of
the Saints. Respect, admiration, love, etc are all most likely quite
permissible. God Himself can be the ONLY object of worship. The statues,
pictures and icons in all those churches serve only as an aid towards focusing
one's thoughts and are never used as idolatrous objects. That would be against
everything they teach.

Some people may pray to Mary as means of trying to get an inside track to the
Almighty with a petition for individual favours or something. I can safely write
that attempt off as human arrogance.




mike

"m II" wrote in message
news:J4F9e.40240$yV3.28691@clgrps12...

Some people may pray to Mary as means of trying to get an inside track to
the
Almighty with a petition for individual favours or something. I can safely
write
that attempt off as human arrogance.

Are you familiar with the Catholic tradition of the novena? For those not
familiar with Catholic traditions, it's nine-day prayerful plea, done in
front of a statute of Mary, in order to gain some
favor/cure/blessing/whatever from God. Is this idolatry? The New Catholic
Encyclopedia defines idolatry as, " Idolatry etymologically denotes Divine
worship given to an image, but its signification has been extended to all
Divine worship given to anyone or anything but the true God." (see
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07636a.htm). Pardon me if I am dense on this
particular matter, but couldn't a statute that one prays in front of be
considered an "image"?

Jackie

"Buzzygirl" wrote:
Are you familiar with the Catholic tradition of the novena? For those not
familiar with Catholic traditions, it's nine-day prayerful plea, done in
front of a statute of Mary, in order to gain some
favor/cure/blessing/whatever from God. Is this idolatry? The New Catholic
Encyclopedia defines idolatry as, " Idolatry etymologically denotes Divine
worship given to an image, but its signification has been extended to all
Divine worship given to anyone or anything but the true God." (see
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07636a.htm). Pardon me if I am dense on
this
particular matter, but couldn't a statute that one prays in front of be
considered an "image"?

Jackie

The key word is "worship." That sort of prayer is not a worshipful act,
it's a request for intercession.

73,

Steve


--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"Buzzygirl" wrote in
:

Your denseness is pardoned. If we are to focus on one group for their
alleged practices of Worshipping this or that, and turn the other way for
everything else that everyone worships, isn't that hypocritical?

People worship SUVs, Cars, Sex, Money, Athletes, Movie Stars, drugs,
alcohol, you name it. Many of the above worshippers have "Graven Images"
of their desire posted all over their house. Yet the world continues to
focus on a group (Catholics) that, at the very least, dearly aspire to
follow the Word of God, whether or not their ways of doing it are
approved of by others in the same sect of religion, namely Christianity.


For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of
thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then
shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matt 7:1-6




Look at your inward flaws and resolve them between you and God, worry
less about the flaws of others.

Dr. Artaud





Pardon me if I am dense on this particular matter, but couldn't a
statute that one prays in front of be considered an "image"?

Jackie

"§ Dr. Artaud §" wrote in message
...
"Buzzygirl" wrote in
:

Your denseness is pardoned. If we are to focus on one group for their
alleged practices of Worshipping this or that, and turn the other way for
everything else that everyone worships, isn't that hypocritical?

Whatever. I'm not Christian and I don't really care who worships what.

Jackie

"Buzzygirl" wrote in
:

The dismissive "whatever", so stereotypical of many moderns.

Then why do you post expressing incredulity at how someone allegedly
worships?

Nihilism then? Are your a Nihilist?

Not being Christian (but perhaps not a nihilist), yet willing to engage in
a thread discussing religion, your response does not necessarily mean that
you are not religious. What religion are you currently or according to what
faith were you raised?

Regards,

Dr. Artaud

Whatever. I'm not Christian and I don't really care who worships what.

Jackie

"§ Dr. Artaud §" wrote in message
...
"Buzzygirl" wrote in
:

Nihilism then? Are your a Nihilist?

Hardly.

I'm officially agnostic, if you must know. I don't care to debate religion
with you... frankly, your posts have an air of self-smugness about them that
turns me off. Bye now.

Jackie