"Greg" wrote


From: "RHF"
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: 22 Apr 2005 07:18:06 -0700
Subject: Antenna Suggestions and Lightning Protection

Dr, Artaud,
.
You are interested in installing a 'shallow' Inverted
"V" Antenna that would be center over your House; and
you want to improve your Lightning Protection at the
same time.
(Snip)

RHF - I don't recall Dr. Artaud's particular circumstance, but here is
mine:
My radio table faces an inside wall. The widow is across the room. Under
the window is a long concrete patio. So I can't have an earth ground
nearby. I can put up an antenna as you describe. My question: Is it
safe
to disconnect the antenna input (center of coax) from the radio and switch
it to the household AC ground for lightning protection?

Greg

Greg, before you entertain such suicidal thoughts again, please browse my
website explanation of why your home's electrical wiring and ground system
are not meant to handle lightning surges. While Cuhulin entertains us with
his every post, his comment is nonetheless correct that a patio ground is
possible. So is drilling a hole and sinking a ground rod through your radio
room floor. But if renting a Hilti hammer-drill and concrete drill bits
isn't your cup of tea, then consider coming through a different wall of the
radio room that does have a short path to deep earth ground.

The very best plan, no matter what room in your home you want to connect and
listen from, would be to route all antenna feedlines to the AC service
entrance ground FIRST, (shield grounding the coax at the base of the
antennas and at the service entrance, install lightning arrestors on the
coax at the same ground rod, then snake them into your radio room any
way/direction you have to. It would be safer if your radio room was also
right next to the AC service entrance ground, but you will see options on
the website to deal with that problem if it's not close.

http://members.cox.net/pc-usa/station/ground0.htm

Best regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Alternately,if a woman is the manager of the complex you live in,make
love to her every night and she just might let you run a ground wire
wherever you want to.
cuhulin

wrote

Alternately,if a woman is the manager of the complex you live in,make
love to her every night and she just might let you run a ground wire
wherever you want to.
cuhulin

We used to call that "thinking out of the box" ;-)

Jack

Jack the Painter wrote:

Greg, before you entertain such suicidal thoughts again, please browse my
website explanation of why your home's electrical wiring and ground system
are not meant to handle lightning surges.

(Snip)

Well, by "entertaining such ...thoughts" I guess you are referring to my
questioning whether it was safe to ground the antenna to electrical ground
when not in use. As you, and RHF pointed out, it isn't.

Drilling the patio won't help, as I still would have to run the ground wore
across the room. Drilling through the floor? Nope.

So here's the deal - I can put up the antenna, ground the coax (shield) &
"balun" at the far end, run the coax to the AC service ground (& ground
shield to it there), install lightning arrestor, then run the coax through
the attic, down the wall, and out to my NRD-525. so far, piece of cake.
Now, when when thunder storms come, I disconnect the coax from the xcvr and
do what with it? Prob. just let it hang, since the coax pretty well
grounded already?

Thanks Jack, I will check your web site.

Greg
W. Central Fla.
Lightning Capital of the U.S.

"Greg" wrote
Jack the Painter wrote:

Greg, before you entertain such suicidal thoughts again, please browse
my
website explanation of why your home's electrical wiring and ground
system
are not meant to handle lightning surges.

(Snip)

Well, by "entertaining such ...thoughts" I guess you are referring to my
questioning whether it was safe to ground the antenna to electrical ground
when not in use. As you, and RHF pointed out, it isn't.

Drilling the patio won't help, as I still would have to run the ground
wore
across the room. Drilling through the floor? Nope.

So here's the deal - I can put up the antenna, ground the coax (shield) &
"balun" at the far end, run the coax to the AC service ground (& ground
shield to it there), install lightning arrestor, then run the coax through
the attic, down the wall, and out to my NRD-525. so far, piece of cake.
Now, when when thunder storms come, I disconnect the coax from the xcvr
and
do what with it? Prob. just let it hang, since the coax pretty well
grounded already?

Thanks Jack, I will check your web site.

Greg
W. Central Fla.
Lightning Capital of the U.S.

Greg, you've got it. And yet you still have that dilemma that faces
thousands of hobbyists; what to do with that disconnected coax? Good news!
Since yours will now be shield grounded at the antenna base and the AC
service entrance ground rod, and a lightning arrestor providing center
conductor protection at the AC service ground rod, very little potential
exists at the end of that coax, and it should be left connected to your
radio at all times. Congratulations.

HOWEVER - you should disconnect the radio's AC power supply (from the back
of the radio) before a thunderstorm. This is because there is still a high
probability that damage from a nearby strike would be imposed on your
electrical system. Only installing fairly expensive AC surge protection
equipment can protect against this danger, and they are not available at
WalMart or Circuit City, etc. I'm not saying you can't use cheap
line-protector power strips to power your radios. But do not rely on them to
do anything except cause damage if your powerlines take a hit, or a strike
comes very close to your home, and imposes major energy on your house wiring
itself. My cost to protect from AC surge damage was over $2,000 in labor
and materials, and it cannot be done by the homeowner. So unplugging all AC
power to sensitive equipment remains an important part of lightning
protection, EVEN if you do the very sensible and safe things regarding
antenna grounding, shield grounding, lightning arrestors, etc. That part is
not very expensive at all, and provides a LOT better sleep when you don't
have worry about those feedlines entering your home.

About bonding. You are "bonded" to your home's AC power ground system when
your radio's three-prong power cord is connected. As long as your radios
have no other ground connection, that's fine. But when people bring coax
feedlines into their station, there exists the possibility that a nearby
strike (to a tree next door for instance) will cause massive ground
potential rise around your antenna and radio grounding systems. This can be
drawn up into your shack, and exit out the radios through the AC power line
(including it's third-prong ground connection). That is serious, and can be
avoided only by disconnecting the power cords before a storm. But it can
also be mitigated by running good bonding connectors from the OUTSIDE
shack-ground rod, around the house to the AC service entrance ground. Then,
ground potential rise from a nearby or direct strike will MOSTLY go the low
impedance path to your AC ground rod, and the system remains "balanced" with
no terrible potential existing between any two points. As long as there is
no exit path out the back of the radios (the AC power cord), and your coax
shield grounding is done, and arrestors guard the center-conductors of the
coax, you will be fine.

Best regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Greg,
=2E
If you build the Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna
as described in my post.
1=2E The Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna which is
a basic [Horizontal] Random Wire Antenna will be
'remote' from your house.
2=2E The Primary Ground for your Shortwave Listener
(SWL) Antenna will be 'remote' from your house.
3=2E The Matching Transformer will provide some
'isolation' between the Shortwave Listener (SWL)
Antenna and the Coax Cable Feed-in-Line.
4=2E Burying the Coax Cable near the 'remote' Shortwave
Listener (SWL) Antenna and Ground Point will 'improve'
the Lightning Protection of the system.
5=2E Using a Coax Cable Feed-in-Line with the Outer-Shield
Grounded and Buried at the Far-End near the 'remote'
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna; will 'improve' the
Lightning Protection of the system.
6=2E Using a Commercial Heavy Duty Antenna Switch that
'facilitates' the Connection of the Shortwave Listener
(SWL) Antenna to your Radio Equipment when "In-Use"
and Disconnecting the Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna
and Grounding-the Antenna-Out when Not-In-Use.
=2E
-IF- You do not have a Ground for your Shack's Radio
Equipment that is "Bonded" to your House's Electrical
System : Then the above 'remote' Shortwave Listener (SWL)
Antenna and Grounding Point will provide you some level
of Lightning Protection that is "Better-Than" NO Ground
at All when you use Using a Commercial Heavy Duty Antenna
Switch.
=2E
WARNING "DO NOT" 'connect' the Center-Wire of the
Coax Cable to the House's Electrical System via one
of the little Round Holes or one of the little Screws
of a common Three-Prong Electrical Box.
Caution - This is NOT Good or Smart Lightning Protection
for your Radio Equipment; your House; and you and your
Family and Loved Ones.
=2E
HOUSEHOLD GROUNDING "A PROJECT" {In and of Itself} :
Building a 'reasonable' Household Safety GROUND for
your Shack's Radio Equipment that is "Bonded" to
your House's Electrical System is a Project in and
of itself. Somewhere between Nothing (No Ground)
and a "Certified" Grounding System is a 'reasonable'
Household Safety GROUND that meets and satisfies your
expectations for your personal level of Electrical
Safety comfort and Local Lightning Conditions.
=2E
=2E
iane ~ RHF
=2E
=2E
All are WELCOME and "Invited to Join" the
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna eGroup on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/=ADShortwave-SWL-Antenna/
=2E
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/=ADSho...message/=AD502
=2E
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night . . .
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The BEYOND !
With a Shortwave Listener SWL Antenna of your own making.
"If You Build It {SWL Antenna} You Will Hear Them !"
=2E . . . .

From: "RHF"
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: 23 Apr 2005 05:18:00 -0700
Subject: Antenna Suggestions and Lightning Protection

Greg,
.
If you build the Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna
as described in my post.

Okay, thanks RHF. You answered my question about grounding to the household
elec ground. At first I thought you meant it was okay to ground through the
third hole in the outlet. But it's not. So I still have to run a heavy
ground wire from the inside wall to the nearest elec ground, which would be
20 to 25 feet, up through the wall and across part of the attic.

Greg

If your house/home has any plastic pipeing at all,you can not expect any
grounding at all by grounding to the pipes.And,the water meter(s) are
made of Brass,no grounding at all can be made at those water meters.
cuhulin