A company would not hesitate to do a redesign IF the product was
profitable.

Even in a large company, a redesign usually only involves a few people.

Doing a redesign is not a big deal and again would have been done if
the company thought the product was profitable.

Having a key component become unavailable happens all the time and
companies will do a last time buy to insure the product can be built
for decades to come IF the product is profitable.

The death of the Drake R8B is due to economics and not to technical
specs.

The Grundig 800 also continues to live due to economics and not to
technical specs.


TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
A company would not hesitate to do a redesign IF the product was
profitable.

There are several reasons not to do a redesign.
1) There are no resources available to do the redesign.
2) The available resources can do something with a much better
return on the investment.
3) Amortizing the cost of the redesign into the future sales would
make the redesigned product unprofitable even when the original product
was probably profitable.



Even in a large company, a redesign usually only involves a few people.


That really depends upon how extensive the redesign is and the effort
needed to take a new product to market. A redesign may require new
certification. Also, only Drake knows how extensive the redesign would
have been.

Doing a redesign is not a big deal and again would have been done if
the company thought the product was profitable.

Not knowing the extent of the redesign means that 'not a big deal' most
likely does not apply or at least there is no data to support that
statement. The underlaying technology is many years old. It might be
necessary to refresh much of the design to significantly increase the
market life of the product.


Having a key component become unavailable happens all the time and
companies will do a last time buy to insure the product can be built
for decades to come IF the product is profitable.

I suspect that more than one component was near the end of its life.
Also, carrying material in inventory is very expensive for a company, it
ties up money that can be used to get a better return. Very few products
have a useful market life of decades, especially when you consider
consumer products. Technology based products generally have a very short
life due to the speed at which technology changes.


The death of the Drake R8B is due to economics and not to technical
specs.


Most likely true. After all, most companies are in business to make a
profit. So economics is a factor. However, without knowing any of the
details, and that information is Drake's business, not ours, nobody
outside of Drake knows how economics entered into the decision.
Technical specs drive the value in the marketplace, leading to sales and
profits. The technical specs for the R8B allowed it to be a viable
product for many years. Without those specs, the product would probably
have been history years ago.


The Grundig 800 also continues to live due to economics and not to
technical specs.


Only partially true. The technical specs are part of what makes the
radio successful in the marketplace. It also takes marketing and low
cost manufacturing. Many areas enter into the economics. When the
economics dictate, the 800 will no longer be available.


TMT


While those who like the R8B find it unfortunate that Drake is no longer
selling the product, we have to also acknowlege that the market for a
high end SW receiver is rather small.

I think many would like to see some new high end receivers introduced
into the market. The success of some of the Chinese manufacturers to
bring sub-$100 mediocre radios to the market indicates that there is
interest in SW. However, it also indicates that the marketplace isn't
willing to spend big dollars for a high end radio.

If manufacturers saw a solid, stable demand for high end radios, then
you would see more available. Unfortunately, I don't see the demand.

Perhaps this means SWLs will need to get back to building their own
radios. There are probably enough folks in the group that can make this
a reality if we all work together.

craigm

Good discussion...we really are saying the same thing.

If the product does not make a profit, it is gone. Drake is in the
business to make money, not radios.

I really do like the idea of SWLs building their own radios.

Whether or not they can be built equivalent to the specs of the Drake
R8B is quite another matter.

I note that most ham operators today are appliance operators and not
builders.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
Good discussion...we really are saying the same thing.

If the product does not make a profit, it is gone. Drake is in the
business to make money, not radios.

Yes, but the reason why Drake decided that the profit wasn't
there (or not enough return) is not the same. There is a difference
between "SW is dying" and "it would cost too much to redesign
a significant portion of the entire radio which would in turn raise
the cost of the radio beyond what a hobbyist would pay for."
It's entirely possible that Drake examined a few basic overhaul
designs, and didn't like either a) the resultant circuitry or b) the
overall cost of what a receiver would run due to parts and/or
manufacturing assembly line changes.

I really do like the idea of SWLs building their own radios.

I used to think so too, but if you want a radio that will perform
at a level approaching a Sat 800 (never mind the R8B), you'll need
either a) a lot of time on your hands or b) an extreme level of
technical expertise. TenTec used to sell a SW kit; don't know
if they still do.

Whether or not they can be built equivalent to the specs of the
Drake
R8B is quite another matter.

I note that most ham operators today are appliance operators and not
builders.

The reason for that is time. The time involved in hand
constructing a receiver to todays specs from scratch is
rather extreme, given the complexity involved. I don't know
about you, but my free time has been considerably
crunched over the past decade, and if I had an option,
I'd rather listen or get on the air than build a radio or
transceiver from scratch. If I have the time in the future,
I'd like to build one, but not now.

--Mike L.

Has anyone considered that if the demise of the Drake R8 series was
truely because of discontinued parts then it is highly likely that
Drake will have few if any parts in inventory for customer repairs.

In the past, more than one great product has turned into a white
elephant because of unobtainable components.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" ) writes:
Has anyone considered that if the demise of the Drake R8 series was
truely because of discontinued parts then it is highly likely that
Drake will have few if any parts in inventory for customer repairs.

Of course, they may be anticipating that.

The component manufacturers tend to make note of when things are
going out of production, labelling them so you know you shouldn't
be putting them in any new productin design. They may have stopped
producting the receiver because it's hit that point, and any stock
is needed for future repairs.

Michael

In the past, more than one great product has turned into a white
elephant because of unobtainable components.

TMT

One thing's for sure about Drake, if you need a part for one of their
radios, as long as they're still in business they'll do their damndest to
get it for you.

I needed a band crystal for my SW-4, wrote Drake and the Parts Manager sold
me one he had at home.

Sony's sold eleventy-million ICF2010's; think their Parts Manager will do
that for us in 20 years?

John


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
Has anyone considered that if the demise of the Drake R8 series was
truely because of discontinued parts then it is highly likely that
Drake will have few if any parts in inventory for customer repairs.

In the past, more than one great product has turned into a white
elephant because of unobtainable components.

TMT

They probably won't do it NOW! Sony doesn't want to sell parts. They want
to sell you a new radio. They have the sorriest customer relations of any
company I've ever seen...


"John" wrote in message
...
One thing's for sure about Drake, if you need a part for one of their
radios, as long as they're still in business they'll do their damndest to
get it for you.

I needed a band crystal for my SW-4, wrote Drake and the Parts Manager
sold
me one he had at home.

Sony's sold eleventy-million ICF2010's; think their Parts Manager will do
that for us in 20 years?

John


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
Has anyone considered that if the demise of the Drake R8 series was
truely because of discontinued parts then it is highly likely that
Drake will have few if any parts in inventory for customer repairs.

In the past, more than one great product has turned into a white
elephant because of unobtainable components.

TMT