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Lightning Protection - What Do YOU Use?
In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us
used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. TMT |
I unplug the radio when thunderstorms are projected.
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Lightning? What's that?
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ps.com... In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. TMT |
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ps.com... In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. Unlikely that anything will survive a direct lightning strike without some damage. TMT |
Brian Hill wrote: Theres no such thing as lightning protection. A so called lightning protector will gaurd against static charges that can build up on your ant. from electrical storms but nothing can protect your radio from a close or dirrect lightning strike to your ant. The only way to prevent damage is to unhook the ant. I always unhook my ant. when I'm done. -- 73 and good DX. B.H. Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm I don't want to start a pising contest, but you might want to visit a local TV or radio station. They take lightning hits all the time and very seldom have anythingmore then a sec or 2 of off air to show for it. Polyphaser(http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_ptd_home.aspx) makes some very efective portectin gear that works. Butyou have to ave a very good ground and well thought out aproach to your wiring. I have survived 2 direct hits. First time melted several feet from my 108" whip and the last time vaporised my ~70' long wire, and blew holes in the coax. It ain't cheap but neither is a new house. Terry |
wrote in message ups.com... Brian Hill wrote: Theres no such thing as lightning protection. A so called lightning protector will gaurd against static charges that can build up on your ant. from electrical storms but nothing can protect your radio from a close or dirrect lightning strike to your ant. The only way to prevent damage is to unhook the ant. I always unhook my ant. when I'm done. -- 73 and good DX. B.H. Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm I don't want to start a pising contest, but you might want to visit a local TV or radio station. They take lightning hits all the time and very seldom have anythingmore then a sec or 2 of off air to show for it. And I'm sure it's very industrial and expensive gear. Polyphaser(http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_ptd_home.aspx) makes some very efective portectin gear that works. Butyou have to ave a very good ground and well thought out aproach to your wiring. I have survived 2 direct hits. First time melted several feet from my 108" whip and the last time vaporised my ~70' long wire, and blew holes in the coax. It ain't cheap but neither is a new house. Terry |
wrote in message I don't want to start a pising contest, but you might want to visit a local TV or radio station. They take lightning hits all the time and very seldom have anythingmore then a sec or 2 of off air to show for it. Polyphaser(http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_ptd_home.aspx) makes some very efective portectin gear that works. Butyou have to ave a very good ground and well thought out aproach to your wiring. I have survived 2 direct hits. First time melted several feet from my 108" whip and the last time vaporised my ~70' long wire, and blew holes in the coax. It ain't cheap but neither is a new house. Terry Yes but the average Joe isn't going to want to spend a bazillion dollars and countless hours doing what it takes to install an effective system. I'm just giving practical cost saving advice to the average / casual SW listener and anybody that is going to jump into a major system like your talking about would surely be an advanced hobbyist and have done his/her homework and not be asking the question in such basic terms. -- 73 and good DX. B.H. Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm |
Your telco has overhead wires everywhere in town. Do they
disconnect during T-storms to protect that $multi-million computer? Of course not. Protection for each switching station has been standard and well proven effective since before WWII - even before transistors existed. It is routine to suffer direct strikes and not suffer damage. The secret is a most critical component of the protection system - the single point earth ground. Each incoming wire connects to earthing either via a direct (and short) wire, or via a surge protector. A surge protector is not protection. Effective protector connects destructive transients to earth ground. Protection is defined by single point earth ground - quality of and distance connected to. Notice how a properly installed CATV enters the building. First it drops down to single point earthing, makes a less than 10 foot connection, and only then rises back up to enter the building. Wire to and wire from that earthing point must be separated. Protection is as Ben Franklin demonstrated in 1752. Lightning is not stopped, blocked, or absorbed - as those who promote ineffective plug-in protectors would claim. Earth before lightning can enter a building to overwhelm protection already inside all electronic appliances. Same applies to that radio antenna. First make a short connection to earth ground between receiver and antenna. Another poster properly cited Polyphaser: a benchmark in protection. Read their tech notes. Does Polyphaser promote their products? No. Polyphaser is about effective protection. They discuss earthing ... extensively. The protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Even that wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground. This for electrical reasons posted elsewhere. Another good source are discussions in rec.radio.amateur.antenna such as "Why a Short Lightning Ground" - especially posts from Richard Harrison and Jack Painter at: http://tinyurl.com/ao36t Anyone who says lightning protection is not possible must explain why effective and properly earthed protection works every year in virtually every town. They must explain why electronics atop the Empire State Building and WTC would suffer 25 and 40 direct strikes every year without damage. Those who claim lightning protection is not possible failed to first learn a science well proven over 60 years ago. BTW, every incoming utility wire is just another antenna connected to everything inside a building. The most common source of destructive transients is AC electric - wires highest on poles and utility that typically provides no secondary protection. You must install the secondary protection - ie the 'whole house' protector. Every incoming wire requires either a direct connection to building's earth ground OR makes that short connection via a 'whole house' protector. Protection so effective and so inexpensive as to even be installed, for free, by the telco on your incoming phone line. Protection is defined by and is only as effective as the single point earth ground. Ineffective plug-in protectors, instead, avoid all mention about earthing (since they are promoting profits and not an effective product). Too_Many_Tools wrote: In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. TMT |
"w_tom" wrote in message ... Your telco has overhead wires everywhere in town. Do they disconnect during T-storms to protect that $multi-million computer? Of course not. Protection for each switching station has been standard and well proven effective since before WWII - even before transistors existed. It is routine to suffer direct strikes and not suffer damage. The secret is a most critical component of the protection system - the single point earth ground. Each incoming wire connects to earthing either via a direct (and short) wire, or via a surge protector. A surge protector is not protection. Effective protector connects destructive transients to earth ground. Protection is defined by single point earth ground - quality of and distance connected to. Notice how a properly installed CATV enters the building. First it drops down to single point earthing, makes a less than 10 foot connection, and only then rises back up to enter the building. Wire to and wire from that earthing point must be separated. Protection is as Ben Franklin demonstrated in 1752. Lightning is not stopped, blocked, or absorbed - as those who promote ineffective plug-in protectors would claim. Earth before lightning can enter a building to overwhelm protection already inside all electronic appliances. Same applies to that radio antenna. First make a short connection to earth ground between receiver and antenna. Another poster properly cited Polyphaser: a benchmark in protection. Read their tech notes. Does Polyphaser promote their products? No. Polyphaser is about effective protection. They discuss earthing ... extensively. The protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Even that wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground. This for electrical reasons posted elsewhere. Another good source are discussions in rec.radio.amateur.antenna such as "Why a Short Lightning Ground" - especially posts from Richard Harrison and Jack Painter at: http://tinyurl.com/ao36t Anyone who says lightning protection is not possible must explain why effective and properly earthed protection works every year in virtually every town. They must explain why electronics atop the Empire State Building and WTC would suffer 25 and 40 direct strikes every year without damage. There certainly isn't a short connection to ground in those cases. Those who claim lightning protection is not possible failed to first learn a science well proven over 60 years ago. BTW, every incoming utility wire is just another antenna connected to everything inside a building. The most common source of destructive transients is AC electric - wires highest on poles and utility that typically provides no secondary protection. You must install the secondary protection - ie the 'whole house' protector. Every incoming wire requires either a direct connection to building's earth ground OR makes that short connection via a 'whole house' protector. Protection so effective and so inexpensive as to even be installed, for free, by the telco on your incoming phone line. Protection is defined by and is only as effective as the single point earth ground. Ineffective plug-in protectors, instead, avoid all mention about earthing (since they are promoting profits and not an effective product). Too_Many_Tools wrote: In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. TMT |
Short connection to earth exists atop skyscrapers.
Demonstrated by professional research even on the Empire State Building in the 1930s. Electrical concepts that are beyond the scope of this discussion. Protection, proven effective even before WWII, is about earthing. Even that coax wire from Dish must drop down to a single point earth ground before entering the building. How to identify ineffective protectors: 1) No dedicated connection to earth ground and 2) manufacturer routinely avoids all mention of earthing. Since rules demonstrate why protectors sold in Kmart, Sears, Staples, Radio Shack, Walmart, Office Max, etc are ineffective (as well as overpriced). Earthing having been long proven as essential to effective protection as demonstrated by Polyphaser (cited previously in a post from r2000swler) and in previous discussions including industry professional at http://tinyurl.com/ao36t FDR wrote: "w_tom" wrote in message ... Anyone who says lightning protection is not possible must explain why effective and properly earthed protection works every year in virtually every town. They must explain why electronics atop the Empire State Building and WTC would suffer 25 and 40 direct strikes every year without damage. There certainly isn't a short connection to ground in those cases. |
Thanks for the discussions so far.
I take lightning protection very seriously. I have seen the results of what happens when an antenna and equipment is not protected adequately....equipment fried, people suffering severe shocks and fires started. An example, one time I was in the basement of a friend who is a very serious ham. With his feed line disconnected from his gear, we watched as a storm induced voltage repeatily jumped over three feet through the air to the basement floor. Even with the feed line disconnected, several of his radios were damaged by induced voltages. TMT |
Brian Hill wrote:
Yes but the average Joe isn't going to want to spend a bazillion dollars and countless hours doing what it takes to install an effective system. I'm just giving practical cost saving advice to the average / casual SW listener and anybody that is going to jump into a major system like your talking about would surely be an advanced hobbyist and have done his/her homework and not be asking the question in such basic terms. -- ------------------------------- Given my home is worth over 100K and my equipment as several thosand if I could find replacements, the few hundred that I spent was well worth the expense. Anyone who has an outside antenna, with a feedline that enters the buidling, had damn well better do some serious planing and research to make certain they are compling with the local electrical codes. Failure may result in criminal charges if anyone gets hurt, and thye could have a nasty suprise if their insurance carrier finds out the house fire was casued by an improper, ie non code, installation. Many policies have exclussions for code violations. I wonder how many or few in this groud are aware of the NEC requirements that "coax have the outer conductor connected to a valid, bonded ground, before being brought inside, or being grouned as soon as praticable"(their word not mine). Very few installations that I am aware of even meet the most basic safety requirements. I gues hope and prayer might be an effective way to protect your equipment and home from lightening, but I will stick with Polyphaser. The primary reason why I am not that active in ham radio is I can't afford enough protection for an unlimited numver of antennas. So my scanner diskcone has to pull double duty and work for my 2M, 70cM opertions, mainly for weather emergencies. I have 6 PolyPhaser units and I only use 4 of them, keeping 2 for spares. 3 for "my" radio equipment, and 1 for the family TV/VCR. Terry |
I have a quick disconnect to the long wire antenna and it's disconnected
when not being used. During storms I always check the SW radio and my new LCD TV to be sure they are totally disconnected, antenna, cable and power! "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ps.com... In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. TMT |
Too_Many_Tools wrote: In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. My antennas here (70' and 200' wires) are transformer matched and grounded at the feedpoint. From there the coax runs underground to the basement where they enter Transi-Trap devices which are grounded. Up from that point the coax goes to a antenna switch. When I'm not listening, at least in summer, I disconnect the feed to the receivers. dxAce Michigan USA |
"Jim Douglas" wrote in message ... I have a quick disconnect to the long wire antenna and it's disconnected when not being used. During storms I always check the SW radio and my new LCD TV to be sure they are totally disconnected, antenna, cable and power! That's what I do too Jim. My switch terminates the ant to grd. My point is that most casual listeners with modestly priced radios will not go and spend hundreds or more on adequate lightning and ground systems for their radio they just bought on Ebay for $200. But they can or will buy a ground rod and a good ant switch with a grounding lug and unhook the radio when not in use. I don't know why they can't see the point I'm trying to make. -- 73 and good DX. B.H. Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm |
"dxAce" wrote in message ... Too_Many_Tools wrote: In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. My antennas here (70' and 200' wires) are transformer matched and grounded at the feedpoint. From there the coax runs underground to the basement where they enter Transi-Trap devices which are grounded. Up from that point the coax goes to a antenna switch. When I'm not listening, at least in summer, I disconnect the feed to the receivers. dxAce Michigan USA Yep it's too easy |
TMT,
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Industry sources explain why earthing exists atop
skyscrapers - which is well beyond the scope of this discussion. If one has problems with this, then they can take it up with those 1930s GE scientists. Skyscraper height is not relevant here. Earthing connection must be short: ie 'less than 10 feet' for each incoming utility wire. The point: protection is only as effective as the earth ground. Single point earthing as discussed previously by Polyphaser and at http://tinyurl.com/ao36t Earthing even required for underground utility wires. A buried wire may carry destructive incoming transients as described by a Polyphaser tech note and demonstrated by this application note entitled "The Need for Coordinated Protection" from another industry professional: http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf Note the earthing system demonstrated by r2000swler. Same concept of a good, bad, and ugly earthing system is also demonstrated by a utility: http://www.cinergy.com/surge/ttip08.htm FDR wrote: "w_tom" wrote in message ... Short connection to earth exists atop skyscrapers. If short you mean 1000 ft. or more, sure. |
Early Hams would disconnect the antenna and even put that
lead inside a mason jar. They would still suffer damage. Another here demonstrated the concept in discussing arcs to a concrete basement floor. Earthing even a disconnected antenna is necessary. Furthermore, earthing without disconnecting costs so little AND is so effective. Disconnecting or protectors alone are not protection. Protection is earth ground. Everything else is only as effective as the connection to that single point earth ground. Jim Douglas wrote: I have a quick disconnect to the long wire antenna and it's disconnected when not being used. During storms I always check the SW radio and my new LCD TV to be sure they are totally disconnected, antenna, cable and power! "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ps.com... In a recent conversation with fellow SWLers, we noted that each of us used a different (or nonexistent) solution to lightning protection. You can also see this attitude in antenna discussions...very little discussion on proper grounding and lightning disappation. So the question... what do YOU use for lightning protection to prevent you and your radios from being turned into melted blobs of charred tissue and plastic? Examples of proven designs with their accompanying stories would be of particular interest. TMT |
"w_tom" wrote in message ... Industry sources explain why earthing exists atop skyscrapers - which is well beyond the scope of this discussion. If one has problems with this, then they can take it up with those 1930s GE scientists. Skyscraper height is not relevant here. Earthing connection must be short: ie 'less than 10 feet' for each incoming utility wire. Just responding to the other posters claim of length. The point: protection is only as effective as the earth ground. Single point earthing as discussed previously by Polyphaser and at http://tinyurl.com/ao36t Earthing even required for underground utility wires. A buried wire may carry destructive incoming transients as described by a Polyphaser tech note and demonstrated by this application note entitled "The Need for Coordinated Protection" from another industry professional: http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf Note the earthing system demonstrated by r2000swler. Same concept of a good, bad, and ugly earthing system is also demonstrated by a utility: http://www.cinergy.com/surge/ttip08.htm FDR wrote: "w_tom" wrote in message ... Short connection to earth exists atop skyscrapers. If short you mean 1000 ft. or more, sure. |
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w_tom wrote:
Do you write this drivel every time, or do you copy and past it? Once again, your knowledge of a number of systems is evident. I have seen a lot of damaged telco equipment. In fact, I've been in the Sprint warehouse in Eustis, Florida where they had skids full of lightning damaged circuit boards being sold as scrap. If the wire is never damaged, why do they build their plant with extra pairs? Those pairs are exempt from tariffs, as long as they are only used to replace a damaged pair. I lost my underground phone line when lighting struck an old barn on our property. We had a light out there, so lightning got into our electrical service. Everything critical was on plug in MOV protectors and they all survived. The lightning jumped from the underground power line to Sprint's buried line which they had installed a few inches from the existing buried power line. The pair of wires was vaporized to the street which was over a mile. It wiped out the line card in the pedestal, and the pair back to the CO was damaged. All 16 customers fed by that pair had excessive noise on their phones so they had to switch to one of the spare pairs. That lightning strike did thousands of dollars worth of damage to their equipment, and took weeks to fix. Now, tell us again that Telcos don't suffer lightning damage. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Hi Mike. In an earlier post it was stated that "replacement value
homeowners insurance" is the only true protection for a lightning strike and that is still the surest bet. NOYK in SW Ocala |
In article ,
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote: w_tom wrote: Do you write this drivel every time, or do you copy and past it? Once again, your knowledge of a number of systems is evident. I have seen a lot of damaged telco equipment. In fact, I've been in the Sprint warehouse in Eustis, Florida where they had skids full of lightning damaged circuit boards being sold as scrap. If the wire is never damaged, why do they build their plant with extra pairs? Those pairs are exempt from tariffs, as long as they are only used to replace a damaged pair. I lost my underground phone line when lighting struck an old barn on our property. We had a light out there, so lightning got into our electrical service. Everything critical was on plug in MOV protectors and they all survived. The lightning jumped from the underground power line to Sprint's buried line which they had installed a few inches from the existing buried power line. The pair of wires was vaporized to the street which was over a mile. It wiped out the line card in the pedestal, and the pair back to the CO was damaged. All 16 customers fed by that pair had excessive noise on their phones so they had to switch to one of the spare pairs. That lightning strike did thousands of dollars worth of damage to their equipment, and took weeks to fix. Now, tell us again that Telcos don't suffer lightning damage. He is a well know Troll and been around for years. He is in just about any new group that has to do with electronics or electricity or phones. A Google search will show he infests many news groups. Always the same line of crap. A real nut case. Do yourself a big favor and drop kick him into the kill file. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote: wrote: I don't want to start a pising contest, but you might want to visit a local TV or radio station. They take lightning hits all the time and very seldom have anything more then a sec or 2 of off air to show for it. Really? A friend of mine makes over half his income from repairing lightning damaged radio stations here in Florida. While I was the engineer at WACX TV lightning hit their studio building in Leesburg Florida. It took ot the entire telephone system, the main computer, all the terminals, all the LNAs on the C-band dish, most of the receivers and the 11 GHZ CARS transmitter that fed the original transmitter site. It took months to repair everything, including replacing the vaporized grounding system. true, if you're in an area that rarely get nearby lightning strikes, but there have been storms here with over 1100 strikes in 30 minutes. The continuous EMP weakens things, and there are a lot of failures because of this. I lost all three video amps in a computer monitor when lightning hit the water behind my workshop. It wasn't plugged in, and the video cable was wrapped around the tilt stand, yet enough voltage was induced into the cable to blow a crater in the video amp chips. A battery powered digital thermometer hanging on the wall exploded. The IC was vaporized and a hole burnt in the circuit board. In truth, there is little that can be don to protect you from a direct lightning strike. AM radio towers have a huge spark gap at the base to protect the insulator, but damage to the antenna system are common. Also, a lot of stations have a spare transmitter that's already hot, so they can switch over and get back on the air, "In a couple seconds" Yes, some TV stations get damaged. But invariably they violate the proper designs of a lightning mitigation system. All that it takes is a single conductor that doesn't go through the ground window. No, everything went through one ground, but the strike wasn't on the tower, it hit the poured concrete building in multiple locations. It was a single level, flat roof with a wall around the outside edge. The concrete finish cap was missing in a lot of places after the storm. Years ago I worked on a fairly expensive project, set up on a mesa in Colorado, with an antenna higher than any object in about a 5 mile radius. The other users of that site were habitual in plugging something into the protected side of the ground window and then putting on a metal rack on the unprotected side of the window. Because of that habit, they will no doubt lose their equipment in a direct strike. ...and there's no need. As for damage to the antenna systems... some times it can't be avoided. But many times it can. In that case, all it needs to have is a low impedence path to ground in the case that lightning strikes. Gas discharge tubes (or spark gaps, but far less controllable) provide that during a strike. The tube has to be able to survive for the lifetime of the strike, no longer. If it shorts, well... it did its *job*. -- Eric F. Richards When the strike hits the building rather than the tower, its going to do damage. There were chunks of concrete blown out of the building, exposing rebar and 1" threaded rod that held the concrete roof to the pillars in the parking lot. The ground conductors for the building vaporized, but it was replaced with newer and heavier grounding, including a 4" metal conduit run from the equipment racks to the tower. I moved the microwave racks from the center of the building into a tiny closet as close to the tower as I could, rebuilt all of the electronics, and added another set of ground rods where the 4" conduit entered the building. After that, there has been no damage, even though the tower has had some strikes. It will fail again, some day because the weather here in Central Florida corrodes everything over time. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Telamon wrote:
In article , "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: He is a well know Troll and been around for years. He is in just about any new group that has to do with electronics or electricity or phones. A Google search will show he infests many news groups. Always the same line of crap. A real nut case. Do yourself a big favor and drop kick him into the kill file. -- Telamon Ventura, California I know he's a troll, but I don't want others to be fooled by his cut and paste BS. I think he does a search for the word lightning and attacks. Maybe I should change the "Organization" line of my header so he'll see every post I make, in every newsgroup. If enough people did that he would have to work quite hard to troll. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
No One You Know wrote:
Hi Mike. In an earlier post it was stated that "replacement value homeowners insurance" is the only true protection for a lightning strike and that is still the surest bet. NOYK in SW Ocala It cost our insurance company some money, but I'll bet that Sprint spent $10,000 to fix everything in that Lake County strike that vaporized the underground phone line. They had to bury a new 25 pair line to all the pedestals on my road, and a new six pair a quarter mile to the house because everyone on the old cable had intermittent noise on their phones. They had to replace the guts in several pedestals because their lightning protectors failed and left nice burn marks. BTW, are you getting ready for the hurricane season? I'd like to buy a 3 KW or larger generator while we have the sales tax holiday, but I just don't have the extra cash right now. I finally got a truck and fixed it so I don't have to depend on someone else to take me places. I've already spent $200 on it in less than two weeks and I still need to fix the air conditioner. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message ... Telamon wrote: In article , "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: He is a well know Troll and been around for years. He is in just about any new group that has to do with electronics or electricity or phones. A Google search will show he infests many news groups. Always the same line of crap. A real nut case. Do yourself a big favor and drop kick him into the kill file. -- Telamon Ventura, California I know he's a troll, but I don't want others to be fooled by his cut and paste BS. I think he does a search for the word lightning and attacks. Maybe I should change the "Organization" line of my header so he'll see every post I make, in every newsgroup. If enough people did that he would have to work quite hard to troll. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida Well Michael. I've never heard of anyone's radio surviving a direct hit so it was news to me. I've seen guys put ground radial out like a spiderwebs all around their towers but I'm not convinced anything can absorb the entire brunt of a direct strike without some energy traveling up the feed line. Every ham or electronics tech I've ever spoke too has said just unhook your equipment in a storm and save yourself some grief. -- 73 and good DX. B.H. Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm |
I know he's a troll, but I don't want others to be fooled by his cut
and paste BS. He showed up in a bass player's newsgroup a couple of months ago with endless, rambling posts about power conditioning and voltage-spike protection -- just tons of unintelligible gibberish, cut and pasted without any sense or conclusion. He avoided every question posed to him with more loads of gibberish. Weird guy, but some people are taken in by his quasi-knowledgeable tone. |
Michael A. Terrell wrote (in part)
Really? A friend of mine makes over half his income from repairing lightning damaged radio stations here in Florida. While I was the engineer at WACX TV lightning hit their studio building in Leesburg Florida. It took ot the entire telephone system, the main computer, all the terminals, all the LNAs on the C-band dish, most of the receivers ..... -------------------------- I have done lots of contract work in area TV and radio (AM and FM) stations. I have been inside working during seeral T-storms. Other then the joy of having florescent lamps that are not turned on act like strobes, and having the power dip for a moment, MOST of the time there was no damge, to anything other then my nerves. I know that commercial broadcaster can and do experience damage, but most ot the time strikes don't damage anything. One local station gets struck "every" time it clouds up and they go years without damage. Of course the ham repeater there doesn't fair as well. Funny the commercial 2 way radio repeaters have about as few problems as the broadcaster. Of course the commercial boys use Polyphaser protectors and the,the last time I checked, had another make of "lightning/EMP" protection. Same make antennas, hardline and grounding system, just different protection. That was proof enough for me. If I gave the impression that I thought that Polyphaser clamps and a good ground system will prevent damage, sorry, but it will certainly reduce the damage and increase the years of trouble free operation. Terry |
Michael Terrell cries, "Woe is me. Nothing can prevent
lightning damage." Meanwhile professionals learn from human mistakes and routinely prevent lightning damage: Richard Harrison posts on 7 May 2001 in the newsgroup rec.radio.amateur.antenna entitled "Grounding Question - Connecting to Power Ground": Early in 1949 I started work in broadcasting. I worked in three stations in that year, KPRC, KXYZ, and KTHT. The first two were built in the 1930`s and KTHT was about one year old when I went to work there in 1949. None of these stations ever suffered lightning damage when taking many direct hits during every year. In fact they only dropped from the air for an instant, to extinguish any follow-through arcing when hit, and were returned to the air automatically following an arc kill. In 1949 there were already thousands of AM broadcast stations. Some were improperly protected against lightninmg, but the vast majority, like the stations I worked at, were almost perfectly protected against lightning damage, and so it was almost unheard of. Ben Franklin figured how to protect structures against lightning over 200 years ago. The rest is just elaboration. Or http://www.harvardrepeater.org/news/lightning.html Well I assert, from personal and broadcast experience spanning 30 years, that you can design a system that will handle *direct lightning strikes* on a routine basis. It takes some planning and careful layout, but it's not hard, nor is it overly expensive. At WXIA-TV, my other job, we take direct lightning strikes nearly every time there's a thunderstorm. Our downtime from such strikes is almost non-existant. The last time we went down from a strike, it was due to a strike on the power company's lines knocking *them* out, ... Since my disasterous strike, I've been campaigning vigorously to educate amateurs that you *can* avoid damage from direct strikes. The belief that there's no protection from direct strike damage is *myth*. ... The keys to effective lightning protection are surprisingly simple, and surprisingly less than obvious. Of course you *must* have a single point ground system that eliminates all ground loops. And you must present a low *impedance* path for the energy to go. That's most generally a low *inductance* path rather than just a low ohm DC path. And even from Sun Microsystems "Planning guide for Sun Server room": http://www.sun.com/servers/white-pap...ning-guide.pdf Lightning surges cannot be stopped, but they can be diverted. The plans for the data center should be thoroughly reviewed to identify any paths for surge entry into the data center. Surge arrestors can be designed into the system to help mitigate the potential for lightning damage within the data center. These should divert the power of the surge by providing a path to ground for the surge energy. Did Michael Terrell cite technical facts? Of course not. Others here have posted how damage is routinely avoided. Thank you Michael for your insults. When do you provide a single reason why this well proven science does not work? Its been a few years. When do you provide one good technical reason? Others who learned from lightning damage eliminate a failure rather than just replace electronics. Michael endorses failure as if it was situation normal. Even children are taught not to be quitters. Damage from direct lightning strikes is routinely avoided. So which week was Michael's town without phone service while the telco switching computer was replaced? Oh? They don't disconnect that computer from overhead wires everywhere in town during thunderstorms? How can that be when Michael says protection is not effective? "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Do you write this drivel every time, or do you copy and past it? Once again, your knowledge of a number of systems is evident. I have seen a lot of damaged telco equipment. In fact, I've been in the Sprint warehouse in Eustis, Florida where they had skids full of lightning damaged circuit boards being sold as scrap. If the wire is never damaged, why do they build their plant with extra pairs? Those pairs are exempt from tariffs, as long as they are only used to replace a damaged pair. I lost my underground phone line when lighting struck an old barn on our property. We had a light out there, so lightning got into our electrical service. Everything critical was on plug in MOV protectors and they all survived. The lightning jumped from the underground power line to Sprint's buried line which they had installed a few inches from the existing buried power line. The pair of wires was vaporized to the street which was over a mile. It wiped out the line card in the pedestal, and the pair back to the CO was damaged. All 16 customers fed by that pair had excessive noise on their phones so they had to switch to one of the spare pairs. That lightning strike did thousands of dollars worth of damage to their equipment, and took weeks to fix. Now, tell us again that Telcos don't suffer lightning damage. |
Go away! Your weird! We don't want to talk to you Mr. Electro Troll. B.H. |
Over in alt.guitar.bass, as CreepieDeCrapper posted in
http://tinyurl.com/dpvxj : Speak for yourselves...i think i'm acutally learning something from all this Brian Running wrote: He showed up in a bass player's newsgroup a couple of months ago with endless, rambling posts about power conditioning and voltage-spike protection -- just tons of unintelligible gibberish, cut and pasted without any sense or conclusion. He avoided every question posed to him with more loads of gibberish. Weird guy, but some people are taken in by his quasi-knowledgeable tone. |
What some of you people don't see is that during most thunder storms
here in central Florida there can be an average lightning strikes in the thousands for each storm. Not your typical anywhere else in the US. That being said, there is no protection from a direct hit. Never was and never will be( affordable anyway). You can protect from near hits though through proper grounding. Heck, when I lived in northern Michigan I would get a static charge from a snow storm at times. Protect as well as can be done affordable and then rely on you homeowners policy to pick up the pieces. After all, thats why you bought insurance isn't it? Yeah Mike, we're getting some things together again but I'm not going for a generator yet, just canned goods and LP tanks and batteries etc. I guess we should board up in June and take the boards off in December. Makes for a dark summer ;-p |
Most lightning strikes remain in the sky - are not CG type.
It is the CG (cloud to ground) type lightning that causes electronics damage. Typically, the resulting destructive transient occurs about once every eight years. In Central Florida, this number is higher. I have seen estimates of once every two years. But this is a regional average. Other conditions such as underlying geology change this number for neighborhoods and even between homes. To better determine a threat risk, one should learn the neighborhood history. Regionally, FL has some of the higher number of CG lightning. But WV has some of the highest numbers 'per thunderstorm'. Another region of concern is a large area between AZ and NM. The mid west may have spectacular thunderstorms, but the frequency of CG lightning in this region is low. No One You Know wrote: What some of you people don't see is that during most thunder storms here in central Florida there can be an average lightning strikes in the thousands for each storm. Not your typical anywhere else in the US. That being said, there is no protection from a direct hit. Never was and never will be( affordable anyway). You can protect from near hits though through proper grounding. Heck, when I lived in northern Michigan I would get a static charge from a snow storm at times. Protect as well as can be done affordable and then rely on you homeowners policy to pick up the pieces. After all, thats why you bought insurance isn't it? Yeah Mike, we're getting some things together again but I'm not going for a generator yet, just canned goods and LP tanks and batteries etc. I guess we should board up in June and take the boards off in December. Makes for a dark summer ;-p |
w_tom wrote:
Michael Terrell cries, "Woe is me. Nothing can prevent lightning damage." Meanwhile professionals learn from human mistakes and routinely prevent lightning damage: Richard Harrison posts on 7 May 2001 in the newsgroup rec.radio.amateur.antenna entitled "Grounding Question - Connecting to Power Ground": Early in 1949 I started work in broadcasting. I worked in three stations in that year, KPRC, KXYZ, and KTHT. The first two were built in the 1930`s and KTHT was about one year old when I went to work there in 1949. None of these stations ever suffered lightning damage when taking many direct hits during every year. In fact they only dropped from the air for an instant, to extinguish any follow-through arcing when hit, and were returned to the air automatically following an arc kill. In 1949 there were already thousands of AM broadcast stations. Some were improperly protected against lightninmg, but the vast majority, like the stations I worked at, were almost perfectly protected against lightning damage, and so it was almost unheard of. Ben Franklin figured how to protect structures against lightning over 200 years ago. The rest is just elaboration. Poor ole Ben got SOME things right. Others were as wrong as you are. Early lightning rods caused damage because they didn't understand how they really worked, or how to properly install them. Have you ever seen an old building burn down after lightning hit the old "Franklin Style" lightning rods? Have you seen the way the sections were connected together with no consideration of minimizing and maintaining a very low resistance at each connection? The heavy twisted braid used where the rod across the roof tuned sharply to go down the side of the building? Yes sir! Ole Ben sure know how to attract lightning and that was all. The rest of the system was a hack. Or http://www.harvardrepeater.org/news/lightning.html Well I assert, from personal and broadcast experience spanning 30 years, that you can design a system that will handle *direct lightning strikes* on a routine basis. It takes some planning and careful layout, but it's not hard, nor is it overly expensive. At WXIA-TV, my other job, we take direct lightning strikes nearly every time there's a thunderstorm. Our downtime from such strikes is almost non-existant. The last time we went down from a strike, it was due to a strike on the power company's lines knocking *them* out, ... A TV tower is fully grounded, and generally heavier than an AM radio tower which is insulated from ground and depends on a pair of large balls to make the lightning arc to ground. I used to have what was left of a set that was hit too many times and shattered. Since my disasterous strike, I've been campaigning vigorously to educate amateurs that you *can* avoid damage from direct strikes. The belief that there's no protection from direct strike damage is *myth*. ... The keys to effective lightning protection are surprisingly simple, and surprisingly less than obvious. Of course you *must* have a single point ground system that eliminates all ground loops. And you must present a low *impedance* path for the energy to go. That's most generally a low *inductance* path rather than just a low ohm DC path. And even from Sun Microsystems "Planning guide for Sun Server room": http://www.sun.com/servers/white-pap...ning-guide.pdf Lightning surges cannot be stopped, but they can be diverted. The plans for the data center should be thoroughly reviewed to identify any paths for surge entry into the data center. Surge arrestors can be designed into the system to help mitigate the potential for lightning damage within the data center. These should divert the power of the surge by providing a path to ground for the surge energy. Did Michael Terrell cite technical facts? Of course not. Others here have posted how damage is routinely avoided. Thank you Michael for your insults. When do you provide a single reason why this well proven science does not work? Its been a few years. When do you provide one good technical reason? I have cited a lot of things in the past, and you've always ignored them. You've been spreading the party line of lies for years, ignoring every statement and reference. Here you are parroting other people's data. You did not do the research, or the actual work. I'm surprised you didn't toss in "The Empire State building" as usual. You refuse to accept that grounding systems deteriorate with age, or can be damaged. WLBE in Lake County Florida lost most of their antenna grounding system when a mall was built next door. The workers crossed the property line with a bulldozer and ripped out half of the buried 4" copper strapping. The antennas sit on two platforms in a marsh and can be hit repeatedly during a single storm. In fact, it doesn't even have to storm to see and hear the bolt strike one, or both towers. Over time something fails. I asked the engineer to go on line and tell you himself but Frank simply laughed and said that you were too damn stupid to know what he was talking about. I think he's right. You've never worked here in Florida, or seen the damage caused by repeated strikes on a single structure in a short time frame. Pieces of steel warped from the high current flow, or other equipment damaged by induced current from the EMP. You are a troll. On the atomic chart you would be Hydrogen. You are stupid, pig headed, and a pimple on the ass of Usenet. You only care about pushing your harebrained agenda. You refuse to listen to those with experience. Yes there are things that can be done to reduce lightning damage. Yes, systems fail. Nothing man-made is perfect, nor will it ever be. As long as you keep spreading your lies and half truths, people will call you on it. You are not only stupid, you're dangerous. Others who learned from lightning damage eliminate a failure rather than just replace electronics. Michael endorses failure as if it was situation normal. Even children are taught not to be quitters. Damage from direct lightning strikes is routinely avoided. I have tried several times in the past to explain induced secondary damage, but it bounces right off your thick skull. It doesn't fit your agenda so you ignore it. So which week was Michael's town without phone service while the telco switching computer was replaced? Oh? They don't disconnect that computer from overhead wires everywhere in town during thunderstorms? How can that be when Michael says protection is not effective? Once again, you are telling a big ole pack of lies. I stated that a pair in a buried line from my house to the equipment pedestal a mile away was vaporized, that the cards on that line were fried, and that the pair from the equipment pedestal to the CO was damaged so bad they had to abandon it, and replace the interface card at the CO. You are as dense as the operator at Sprint who had to yell over the static on the damaged pair to ask "Are you sure there is something wrong with your telephone service?". It is you that spreads the lie that telephone equipment is never damaged by lightning. I never said the whole town was without phone service. On the other hand, one whole exchange (10,000 phone numbers) was out of service for about 24 hours back in the '80s after a storm. The contractor didn't assemble the buss bars properly, a pinhole leak dripped into the buss duct and it exploded. The idiots had assembled the buss bars with zinc plated bolts and the damage was so bad they had to replace most of the buss bars, and replace the zinc plated steel bolts with the proper brass bolts. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Yes, an improperly installed lightning rod can cause damage
.... because the human has failed to install or maintain the most critical component in a lightning protection system: earth ground. So what is Michael's point? Whether it be lightning rod or radio station or telephone central office switching station. They all suffer direct lightning strikes and must not suffer damage. Protection is defined by quality of and connection to earth ground which is why properly earthed facilities need not suffer damage. Bulldozers rip out a ground system for a radio station. That proves that lightning damage cannot be avoided? That demonstrates why lightning damage is due to human failure. Yes grounding systems can also deteriorate with age. If a human does not maintain it, then lightning damage can occur. Human failure. Protection is only as good as its earth ground. So what is your point? That one should quit because lightning damage is unavoidable? I was building surge protectors decades ago. Some unfortunate failures. Some spectacular successes. One never resolved mystery. One fact was consistently demonstrated and repeated by industry professionals even in IEEE papers. Protection is only as effective as its earth ground. By your own examples, inferior earth grounds can result in damage. Improper connections of a lightning rod to its earth ground caused failure. So what? Inferior earth grounds are examples of human failure. Earthing defines protection from lightning. Michael Terrell demonstrates that damage occurs when the human does not install or maintain sufficient earthing. However since protection might not be large enough for the rare 200K amp lightning strike, then we should never bother with any protection? What kind of reasoning is that? Most all lightning strikes do so little damage as to not even leave indications on trees. Even 12 AWG wire (20 amp wire inside walls) is more than sufficient to earth most direct lightning strikes. But we install even heavier wire and earthing grounds to lightning rods so that even larger direct strikes cause no damage. In many locations, human do not install protection for the 200,000 amp strike because such strikes just don't happen. Where it does happen, the earthing system is enhanced. Even in Central FL, professionals have installed earthing systems to make damage irrelevant. Humans also fix the earthing systems when bulldozers rip it out because proper earthing is that essential to protection. For locations with no protection, even a single 8 foot earth ground rod is a massive improvement. Again repeating the point. Protection is only as good as the earth ground. Damage from lightning is directly traceable to human failure. In locations where a human will never see a 200K lightning strike in his lifetime (which is most places), then even a simple eight foot earth ground rod is sufficient. But should earthing need be marginally improved, then size and cost of that earthing system increases quickly. Others fixed their earthing systems and stopped suffering damage in Central FL. That is the point. Eliminating damage starts with and is defined by the quality of earth ground and connections to it. Even 25 strike per year to TV and FM stations on the Empire State Building need not cause damage - which is where much of the original research was conducted. Michael Terrell says that is wrong because humans will not maintain their earthing systems? Quitters logic. Michael promotes a quitters attitude. Yes, a lightning protection system may fail to earth an extremely rare 200,000 amp strike. Yes, most locations don't protect from the 200K lightning strike because such lightning never occurs. So what? Therefore he advocate no protection? Why advocate a quitters attitude? Protection is defined by earth ground. Properly installed earthing systems can even earth 200K lightning strikes. But a damaged earth ground system means damage can occur. Damage avoided if the earthing system been repaired and was sufficient. Other radio stations in central FL addressed earthing problems and don't experience repeated failures. Central FL requires even better earthing systems. Maybe they also maintain their earthing systems? How can that be? Well some humans accept failure as situation normal. Others fix problems before failure occurs. Some may even insult to prove their point. But those other radio stations fixed their problems rather than just repeatedly replace the phone system. They did not take on a quitter's attitude. They addressed the solution starting with a most critical system component - earth ground. One that was sufficient for Central FL. "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Poor ole Ben got SOME things right. Others were as wrong as you are. Early lightning rods caused damage because they didn't understand how they really worked, or how to properly install them. Have you ever seen an old building burn down after lightning hit the old "Franklin Style" lightning rods? Have you seen the way the sections were connected together with no consideration of minimizing and maintaining a very low resistance at each connection? The heavy twisted braid used where the rod across the roof tuned sharply to go down the side of the building? Yes sir! Ole Ben sure know how to attract lightning and that was all. The rest of the system was a hack. Or http://www.harvardrepeater.org/news/lightning.html Well I assert, from personal and broadcast experience spanning 30 years, that you can design a system that will handle *direct lightning strikes* on a routine basis. It takes some planning and careful layout, but it's not hard, nor is it overly expensive. At WXIA-TV, my other job, we take direct lightning strikes nearly every time there's a thunderstorm. Our downtime from such strikes is almost non-existant. The last time we went down from a strike, it was due to a strike on the power company's lines knocking *them* out, ... A TV tower is fully grounded, and generally heavier than an AM radio tower which is insulated from ground and depends on a pair of large balls to make the lightning arc to ground. I used to have what was left of a set that was hit too many times and shattered. Since my disasterous strike, I've been campaigning vigorously to educate amateurs that you *can* avoid damage from direct strikes. The belief that there's no protection from direct strike damage is *myth*. ... The keys to effective lightning protection are surprisingly simple, and surprisingly less than obvious. Of course you *must* have a single point ground system that eliminates all ground loops. And you must present a low *impedance* path for the energy to go. That's most generally a low *inductance* path rather than just a low ohm DC path. And even from Sun Microsystems "Planning guide for Sun Server room": http://www.sun.com/servers/white-pap...ning-guide.pdf Lightning surges cannot be stopped, but they can be diverted. The plans for the data center should be thoroughly reviewed to identify any paths for surge entry into the data center. Surge arrestors can be designed into the system to help mitigate the potential for lightning damage within the data center. These should divert the power of the surge by providing a path to ground for the surge energy. Did Michael Terrell cite technical facts? Of course not. Others here have posted how damage is routinely avoided. Thank you Michael for your insults. When do you provide a single reason why this well proven science does not work? Its been a few years. When do you provide one good technical reason? I have cited a lot of things in the past, and you've always ignored them. You've been spreading the party line of lies for years, ignoring every statement and reference. Here you are parroting other people's data. You did not do the research, or the actual work. I'm surprised you didn't toss in "The Empire State building" as usual. You refuse to accept that grounding systems deteriorate with age, or can be damaged. WLBE in Lake County Florida lost most of their antenna grounding system when a mall was built next door. The workers crossed the property line with a bulldozer and ripped out half of the buried 4" copper strapping. The antennas sit on two platforms in a marsh and can be hit repeatedly during a single storm. In fact, it doesn't even have to storm to see and hear the bolt strike one, or both towers. Over time something fails. I asked the engineer to go on line and tell you himself but Frank simply laughed and said that you were too damn stupid to know what he was talking about. I think he's right. You've never worked here in Florida, or seen the damage caused by repeated strikes on a single structure in a short time frame. Pieces of steel warped from the high current flow, or other equipment damaged by induced current from the EMP. You are a troll. On the atomic chart you would be Hydrogen. You are stupid, pig headed, and a pimple on the ass of Usenet. You only care about pushing your harebrained agenda. You refuse to listen to those with experience. Yes there are things that can be done to reduce lightning damage. Yes, systems fail. Nothing man-made is perfect, nor will it ever be. As long as you keep spreading your lies and half truths, people will call you on it. You are not only stupid, you're dangerous. Others who learned from lightning damage eliminate a failure rather than just replace electronics. Michael endorses failure as if it was situation normal. Even children are taught not to be quitters. Damage from direct lightning strikes is routinely avoided. I have tried several times in the past to explain induced secondary damage, but it bounces right off your thick skull. It doesn't fit your agenda so you ignore it. So which week was Michael's town without phone service while the telco switching computer was replaced? Oh? They don't disconnect that computer from overhead wires everywhere in town during thunderstorms? How can that be when Michael says protection is not effective? Once again, you are telling a big ole pack of lies. I stated that a pair in a buried line from my house to the equipment pedestal a mile away was vaporized, that the cards on that line were fried, and that the pair from the equipment pedestal to the CO was damaged so bad they had to abandon it, and replace the interface card at the CO. You are as dense as the operator at Sprint who had to yell over the static on the damaged pair to ask "Are you sure there is something wrong with your telephone service?". It is you that spreads the lie that telephone equipment is never damaged by lightning. I never said the whole town was without phone service. On the other hand, one whole exchange (10,000 phone numbers) was out of service for about 24 hours back in the '80s after a storm. The contractor didn't assemble the buss bars properly, a pinhole leak dripped into the buss duct and it exploded. The idiots had assembled the buss bars with zinc plated bolts and the damage was so bad they had to replace most of the buss bars, and replace the zinc plated steel bolts with the proper brass bolts. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
w_tom wrote:
(a lot) But, Dubya Tom, I think you're missing the most important point: Earth ground. Earth ground is what's really, really, really, really, really important. Earth ground. It's important. The most important thing is earth ground. And humans. And earth ground. Yes, an improperly installed lightning rod can cause damage ... because the human has failed to install or maintain the most critical component in a lightning protection system: earth ground. So what is Michael's point? Whether it be lightning rod or radio station or telephone central office switching station. They all suffer direct lightning strikes and must not suffer damage. Protection is defined by quality of and connection to earth ground which is why properly earthed facilities need not suffer damage. Bulldozers rip out a ground system for a radio station. That proves that lightning damage cannot be avoided? That demonstrates why lightning damage is due to human failure. Yes grounding systems can also deteriorate with age. If a human does not maintain it, then lightning damage can occur. Human failure. Protection is only as good as its earth ground. So what is your point? That one should quit because lightning damage is unavoidable? I was building surge protectors decades ago. Some unfortunate failures. Some spectacular successes. One never resolved mystery. One fact was consistently demonstrated and repeated by industry professionals even in IEEE papers. Protection is only as effective as its earth ground. By your own examples, inferior earth grounds can result in damage. Improper connections of a lightning rod to its earth ground caused failure. So what? Inferior earth grounds are examples of human failure. Earthing defines protection from lightning. Michael Terrell demonstrates that damage occurs when the human does not install or maintain sufficient earthing. However since protection might not be large enough for the rare 200K amp lightning strike, then we should never bother with any protection? What kind of reasoning is that? Most all lightning strikes do so little damage as to not even leave indications on trees. Even 12 AWG wire (20 amp wire inside walls) is more than sufficient to earth most direct lightning strikes. But we install even heavier wire and earthing grounds to lightning rods so that even larger direct strikes cause no damage. In many locations, human do not install protection for the 200,000 amp strike because such strikes just don't happen. Where it does happen, the earthing system is enhanced. Even in Central FL, professionals have installed earthing systems to make damage irrelevant. Humans also fix the earthing systems when bulldozers rip it out because proper earthing is that essential to protection. For locations with no protection, even a single 8 foot earth ground rod is a massive improvement. Again repeating the point. Protection is only as good as the earth ground. Damage from lightning is directly traceable to human failure. In locations where a human will never see a 200K lightning strike in his lifetime (which is most places), then even a simple eight foot earth ground rod is sufficient. But should earthing need be marginally improved, then size and cost of that earthing system increases quickly. Others fixed their earthing systems and stopped suffering damage in Central FL. That is the point. Eliminating damage starts with and is defined by the quality of earth ground and connections to it. Even 25 strike per year to TV and FM stations on the Empire State Building need not cause damage - which is where much of the original research was conducted. Michael Terrell says that is wrong because humans will not maintain their earthing systems? Quitters logic. Michael promotes a quitters attitude. Yes, a lightning protection system may fail to earth an extremely rare 200,000 amp strike. Yes, most locations don't protect from the 200K lightning strike because such lightning never occurs. So what? Therefore he advocate no protection? Why advocate a quitters attitude? Protection is defined by earth ground. Properly installed earthing systems can even earth 200K lightning strikes. But a damaged earth ground system means damage can occur. Damage avoided if the earthing system been repaired and was sufficient. Other radio stations in central FL addressed earthing problems and don't experience repeated failures. Central FL requires even better earthing systems. Maybe they also maintain their earthing systems? How can that be? Well some humans accept failure as situation normal. Others fix problems before failure occurs. Some may even insult to prove their point. But those other radio stations fixed their problems rather than just repeatedly replace the phone system. They did not take on a quitter's attitude. They addressed the solution starting with a most critical system component - earth ground. One that was sufficient for Central FL. |
Brian Running wrote:
w_tom wrote: (a lot) But, Dubya Tom, I think you're missing the most important point: Earth ground. Earth ground is what's really, really, really, really, really important. Earth ground. It's important. The most important thing is earth ground. And humans. And earth ground. Tom is an idiot. I say that you can't install and forget grounding or other protective devices and he says that I'm a quitter. The only thing that has quit are his last few brain cells. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
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