m II wrote:
Brian Hill wrote:

Not only that Brenda but we sure don't want to live in a society that
convicts on less than reasonable doubt.



Remember Quantanamo? The White House said that even if they were all
found innocent, they STILL wouldn't be released. Either you have justice
or you don't. Why is the government immune from the law?




mike


Well Mike....let's put you out in the field with the soldiers; and some
radical extremist are leveling AK-47, RPG, and other heavy Chinese made
mortars at your men and yourself....welcome to war! Would the USA
declaring war on Afghanistan induced you to voluntairly enlist to
defend your country...probably not, as a former "patriotic, politically
correct" group did after Pearl Harbor....we went to war on a bare
majority vote.

Second, would you prefer that we killed them all in the field, or in a
sealed semi-trailer as the locals did when they captured them??? Or
better yet, try sorting out the local population from the foreign
fighters there....we at least stopped them from bashing in the heads of
the people in the stadiums, and other "civilized" behavior.
Bottom-line...war declared or otherwise is all about kill or be killed.
It is easy to sit back and preach "legality" but if you lived and
worked overseas like I and other Americans do for the government or
industry under the US State Department guise, you would know that we
have little to no rights.

Third, to gather intelligence from these disparate anarchists groups
takes time....and after some have given up the truth or have been
verified as standbyers, we have released them to their parent
countries. The ones left in "Gitmo" are there for good reasons...in our
jail system we have parole boards...most time the hardened criminals
stay put unlike the European prison model that "rehabs" them and
forgives their crime completely (most of the police in Italy have been
minor criminals...try that in the USA,,,once convicted, always a
criminal).

Since these "foreign fighters" were not under their parent countries
command, they are caught between the international criminal code...or
if under the Afghan government's control (Taliban at the time), then
they are prisoners of war, or war criminals. The fact is that the
Taliban government kept their status secret as their means of external
support...therefore they are in limbo. Now maybe we could release them
under and work-release program in your town, and you could babysit them
until they start killing Americans again!!!

If you and others feel guilty about Gitmo, then feel guilty for
re-electing a President who blew-off intel reports, and who's only
reaction to terrorists' actions was a few miserably targeted cruise
missiles (we got a pharamaceutical factory, but missed Bin Laden's bank
in he Sudan).

Joe (I've been and am there!!!)

" wrote:



m II wrote:
Brian Hill wrote:

Not only that Brenda but we sure don't want to live in a society that
convicts on less than reasonable doubt.



Remember Quantanamo? The White House said that even if they were all
found innocent, they STILL wouldn't be released. Either you have justice
or you don't. Why is the government immune from the law?




mike


Well Mike....let's put you out in the field with the soldiers; and some
radical extremist are leveling AK-47, RPG, and other heavy Chinese made
mortars at your men and yourself....welcome to war! Would the USA
declaring war on Afghanistan induced you to voluntairly enlist to
defend your country...probably not, as a former "patriotic, politically
correct" group did after Pearl Harbor....we went to war on a bare
majority vote.

Second, would you prefer that we killed them all in the field, or in a
sealed semi-trailer as the locals did when they captured them??? Or
better yet, try sorting out the local population from the foreign
fighters there....we at least stopped them from bashing in the heads of
the people in the stadiums, and other "civilized" behavior.
Bottom-line...war declared or otherwise is all about kill or be killed.
It is easy to sit back and preach "legality" but if you lived and
worked overseas like I and other Americans do for the government or
industry under the US State Department guise, you would know that we
have little to no rights.

Third, to gather intelligence from these disparate anarchists groups
takes time....and after some have given up the truth or have been
verified as standbyers, we have released them to their parent
countries. The ones left in "Gitmo" are there for good reasons...in our
jail system we have parole boards...most time the hardened criminals
stay put unlike the European prison model that "rehabs" them and
forgives their crime completely (most of the police in Italy have been
minor criminals...try that in the USA,,,once convicted, always a
criminal).

Since these "foreign fighters" were not under their parent countries
command, they are caught between the international criminal code...or
if under the Afghan government's control (Taliban at the time), then
they are prisoners of war, or war criminals. The fact is that the
Taliban government kept their status secret as their means of external
support...therefore they are in limbo. Now maybe we could release them
under and work-release program in your town, and you could babysit them
until they start killing Americans again!!!

If you and others feel guilty about Gitmo, then feel guilty for
re-electing a President who blew-off intel reports, and who's only
reaction to terrorists' actions was a few miserably targeted cruise
missiles (we got a pharamaceutical factory, but missed Bin Laden's bank
in he Sudan).

Joe (I've been and am there!!!)

Joe,

First off, thanks for being there.

Second off, mII is a canadian bomb thrower. He really needs to get a
life since what he has now is only just an obsessive hatred of the
U.S. He didn't vote for anyone here.

Third... I, for one, am NOT disputing the needs to defend yourself on
a battlefield, and am frankly appalled that lawyers are consulted
whenever missions are planned back here in the Five Sided Funny Farm.

But Gitmo is a disaster. We should treat them as POWs, even if they
don't wear a uniform or fight under a western-style nation-state.
Alternatively, the Geneva Convention says that spies -- that is,
soldiers in civilian clothes -- may be summarily executed.

Personally, I thought the last election was one of the worst set of
choices since, well, Gore and Bush. Even Mondale/Reagan wasn't this
bad.

Now, whatever you may think of my rambling opinions, stay safe and
keep your head down.

--
Eric F. Richards

"The weird part is that I can feel productive even when I'm doomed."
- Dilbert

Appreciate the concern...I am more worried about the unpatriotic
attitudes and behavior of the Americans back home...the Iraqis voted
while most Americans stayed home....the economy is in shabbles, and
true the state and local tax rates are highes than the US tax rates,
Americans have not recalled one representative for poor execution in
their jobs...with 76% of terrorists web sites based in the USA.....we
elect professional politicans ex-lawyers (some never practiced law, and
what does law have to do with leadership????)...they kill the 2 term
tenure bill and we do not have a say....I think Americans do not
deserve America...bring the foreigners in, sweep out the unconcerned,
and put some new direction and vitality into those who earn their
freedom by deed and actions, not solely by birthrite.

Wake up America.....Arabs over here hate us just because...no
logic...no reason...not religious or otherwise motivated....these
cowards could not lift a finger and fight for their own freedom because
of their upbringing, their lazy male-eccentric culture, and
bible-thumping equivalents in the form of mutawahs or inmans getting
kicj back from the dictators and kings they serve. They have never been
are friends, betrayed us in WW II and during the Cold War despite are
anti-Israel stance until 1967.....and as part owners of CNNI, they beam
what they want their people and you back there to see...getting their
story from Dubai because there is no freedom for a free press to travel
at will in the Middle East excepting Iraq at the moment, do not believe
a lying negative word of CNN...damn Ted Turner and the whole liberal
democratic lot...like to put a gun in his hand and the group and see
what "real men" are made of.....

The truth is: America is at war against an idealogy that simply will
not die without a major defeat of the present regimes in the area;
America has no friends unless we put something in their hand, excepting
a few; Americans are ungrateful and undeserving of the Constitution of
the United States of America....when I see other countries, especially
poor little Italy salute their dead at the airport, cathedral, and at
the grave site with their president, chiefs of staff of the various
military departments, and it is covered live on television so all of
their citizens can share in the responsibility and remorse of the
moment, I feel that Americans just don't get the big picture.......yes,
this war is going to be just like Vietnam, not because of the
battlefield, or lack of conditions, or the nature of the enemies at
hand...it is exactly like Vietnam because of the American citizens back
home more concerned about those idiotic WWF or ESPN events than the
future of their country or children. If you have to live your life
through hero worship, then you have not lived at all. When you have the
means and power to control your government and you sluff it off because
you don't have the time...well, perhaps we should let a few leak back
home with that same attitude and sense of non-patriotism. The fact is
that we cannot, and would not...26% of Americans carry the burden for
the lot....I have a rather simple solution..serve to earn the right to
vote, or get no vote at all...then when you pick these self-serving
clowns and political thiefs youd think back how lucky it is to be still
alive, and god's blessing to be an American.

On 14 Jun 2005 04:57:28 -0700, "
wrote:

(most of the police in Italy have been
minor criminals...try that in the USA,,,once convicted, always a
criminal).

What a hoot -- there are plenty of cops in the US who are
continually committing crimes (dropping evedince where it didn't
exist, extortion, roughing up suspects out of sight of cameras) --
they're just unindicted due to the code of silence.