Hi guys!

I live on the 23rd floor of a building so I can't use the earth directly for
the ground.
The options in my "radio room" are the ground from the electrical sockets
and that's about it.

I've heard I can roll out 10ft of tin foil on the floor as a ground {that's
out}, or, use the window frames as a good ground. As far as I can tell, the
window frame looks to be aluminum or some sort of alloy.

Have any of you heard of using a window frame as a ground? I think I read it
in this NG that someone recommended it and was using it for his ground. I've
been using the ground from an electrical outlet.

But being that so many people live in the building that use appliances and
other plugged in items all day and night, I sometimes get what seems like
bad feedback affecting the receiver.

So what do you think of the window frame for the ground then? I welcome any
other options I can use in a room very far from a direct earth ground. The
bathroom pipes are all the way across the room separated by a wall. Not easy
to get to.

Thanks for any help
Lucky

"Lucky" skrev i en meddelelse
...

I live on the 23rd floor of a building so I can't use the earth directly
for
the ground.
The options in my "radio room" are the ground from the electrical sockets
and that's about it.


The ground in your electrical socket is by no means ground radio wise.

I've heard I can roll out 10ft of tin foil on the floor as a ground
{that's
out}, or, use the window frames as a good ground. As far as I can tell,
the
window frame looks to be aluminum or some sort of alloy.


Your ground can either be a real low impedance connection to the soil, or
just a counterweight to your antenna, whitch is basically the same. Not many
people are aware what it actually takes to construct a real RF, and not
safety, ground.

Have any of you heard of using a window frame as a ground? I think I read
it
in this NG that someone recommended it and was using it for his ground.
I've
been using the ground from an electrical outlet.


You can use anything as long as it is metal. The more the better. But you
should use heavy gauge wire for the connection, as short as possible,
otherwise the effect be be lost in the impedance of the cabling.

But being that so many people live in the building that use appliances and
other plugged in items all day and night, I sometimes get what seems like
bad feedback affecting the receiver.


Yeah, I really think you should let mains ground be mains ground and use
something else for RF ground.

So what do you think of the window frame for the ground then? I welcome
any
other options I can use in a room very far from a direct earth ground. The
bathroom pipes are all the way across the room separated by a wall. Not
easy
to get to.


If you have carpet on your radio room floor (in order to hide the tin foil),
you really should consider laying out tin foil, as much and as long as
possible and connect it to the radio/antenna system. The connection between
the tin foil and the radio should be no longer than 6'. You may also lay out
cables around the perimeter of your room, maybe even around the entire
apartment, if you have the possibility.

Consider wether your antenna system actually requires grounding or a
counterweight. Remember that any counterweight or artificial ground will
function as an antenna and possibly pick up noise.

There is actually only one thing to do: Find some theory and then axperiment
to find out what is best at your location.

Best regards
Anders Henriksen, oz7ahr
Denmark

Based on the newsgroup, I'll assume you're not transmitting, but listening
to broadcasts... I'm curious why you are concerned about a 'ground'...?

Neither aluminum window frames nor 23rd floor plumbing pipes (which usually
turn to plastic once in the framework of the building) will suffice as a
substitute for a good earth ground...

Does your radio require an "earth ground"? If so, try a tuned counterpoise
on the ground lug for the bands most listened to... It will probably do the
trick (If you need help locating one let me know via email, I have an extra
one).

BTW - your email bounces.

Best of luck.

John

"Lucky" wrote in message
...
Hi guys!

I live on the 23rd floor of a building so I can't use the earth directly
for
the ground.
The options in my "radio room" are the ground from the electrical sockets
and that's about it.

I've heard I can roll out 10ft of tin foil on the floor as a ground
{that's
out}, or, use the window frames as a good ground. As far as I can tell,
the
window frame looks to be aluminum or some sort of alloy.

Have any of you heard of using a window frame as a ground? I think I read
it
in this NG that someone recommended it and was using it for his ground.
I've
been using the ground from an electrical outlet.

But being that so many people live in the building that use appliances and
other plugged in items all day and night, I sometimes get what seems like
bad feedback affecting the receiver.

So what do you think of the window frame for the ground then? I welcome
any
other options I can use in a room very far from a direct earth ground. The
bathroom pipes are all the way across the room separated by a wall. Not
easy
to get to.

Thanks for any help
Lucky

Anders Henriksen wrote:

Your ground can either be a real low impedance connection to the soil, or
just a counterweight to your antenna,

I think you mean counterpoise.

A window frame is useless. It's more another antenna,
than a ground. Why do you need a ground? Myself, I
wouldn't use one...Heck, I'm on the ground floor here,
and I don't use one...And I transmit too...You don't
mention the antenna. If you use a complete antenna,
that does not require a ground to complete the antenna,
there is no need for a ground. This is the route I would
take. If your antenna is indoors with you, you probably
won't be able to escape all noise. MK

"Cmd Buzz Corey" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Anders Henriksen wrote:

Your ground can either be a real low impedance connection to the soil,
or
just a counterweight to your antenna,

I think you mean counterpoise.

Yes, my error. Thanks for telling me.

Best regards
Anders Henriksen, oz7ahr
Denmark

"JLewis" wrote in message
...
Based on the newsgroup, I'll assume you're not transmitting, but listening
to broadcasts... I'm curious why you are concerned about a 'ground'...?

Neither aluminum window frames nor 23rd floor plumbing pipes (which
usually
turn to plastic once in the framework of the building) will suffice as a
substitute for a good earth ground...

Does your radio require an "earth ground"? If so, try a tuned
counterpoise
on the ground lug for the bands most listened to... It will probably do
the
trick (If you need help locating one let me know via email, I have an
extra
one).

BTW - your email bounces.

Best of luck.

John

"Lucky" wrote in message
...
Hi guys!

I live on the 23rd floor of a building so I can't use the earth directly
for
the ground.
The options in my "radio room" are the ground from the electrical sockets
and that's about it.

I've heard I can roll out 10ft of tin foil on the floor as a ground
{that's
out}, or, use the window frames as a good ground. As far as I can tell,
the
window frame looks to be aluminum or some sort of alloy.

Have any of you heard of using a window frame as a ground? I think I read
it
in this NG that someone recommended it and was using it for his ground.
I've
been using the ground from an electrical outlet.

But being that so many people live in the building that use appliances
and
other plugged in items all day and night, I sometimes get what seems like
bad feedback affecting the receiver.

So what do you think of the window frame for the ground then? I welcome
any
other options I can use in a room very far from a direct earth ground.
The
bathroom pipes are all the way across the room separated by a wall. Not
easy
to get to.

Thanks for any help
Lucky





Hi guys,

Yes I didn't tell you what antenna I've been using. BTW I'm not transmitting
at all, just receiving.Due to size restrictions I have one random wire about
30 Ft long and a dipole approx 16 ft total length connected to a 4:1 current
balun.

These antennas are on the outside terrace and are fed in thru a window. I
had another smaller dipole like 6Ft total connected to the same balun also
but have since taken it down.

The seller of the current balun told me I didn't need a ground for it. I
didn't know much about dipoles then. But that I should still ground the
radio itself. The seller was RFjunkie from Ebay. He seemed to know a lot
about them so I grounded the R75, Lowe HF-150 and all of my radios since
then.

He said I would need a ground if it was a Voltage balun though but still
ground the rigs using the current balun just to be sure it I wanted.

Now, in all the radio manuals I read, and from reading many sites, they all
claim one must be grounded and grounded well even if receiving. I think more
of the old time users were adamant about grounding your radio for proper use
and protection. I read about static building up and the radio having to have
some kind of grounding.

So I grounded and many times it seemed to lower the noise floor on some
frequencies. So how do you know if you're making a real ground or just
another leg of an antenna??

Thank you kindly for all the replies
My e-mail bounces due to all the spam when I have my real one up.
Lucky

wrote in message
oups.com...
A window frame is useless. It's more another antenna,
than a ground. Why do you need a ground? Myself, I
wouldn't use one...Heck, I'm on the ground floor here,
and I don't use one...And I transmit too...You don't
mention the antenna. If you use a complete antenna,
that does not require a ground to complete the antenna,
there is no need for a ground. This is the route I would
take. If your antenna is indoors with you, you probably
won't be able to escape all noise. MK


Hi

Again what about built up static? Where does it go then? I usually switch
between my 2 antennas to see what brings the frequency in better, the random
wire or the dipole. So I don't stay with one fixed antenna all the time. A
ground would still not be needed then?

So I take it most of you not transmitting are not grounded?

Lucky

Do you need an earth ground, or AC electric ground, or just
a big Faraday shield? Even your concrete floor is an earth
ground - depending on electrical characteristics that were not
provided. Without mentioning frequencies or purpose of the
'ground', then all answers will only be speculation based upon
personal assumptions. What are you trying to accomplish?
Noise reduction? Better signal reception? Human safety? All
may be useful or useless reasons for grounding.

Lucky wrote:
I live on the 23rd floor of a building so I can't use the earth
directly for the ground. The options in my "radio room" are the
ground from the electrical sockets and that's about it.

I've heard I can roll out 10ft of tin foil on the floor as a
ground {that's out}, or, use the window frames as a good ground.
As far as I can tell, the window frame looks to be aluminum or
some sort of alloy.

Have any of you heard of using a window frame as a ground? I think
I read it in this NG that someone recommended it and was using it
for his ground. I've been using the ground from an electrical
outlet.

But being that so many people live in the building that use
appliances and other plugged in items all day and night, I
sometimes get what seems like bad feedback affecting the receiver.

So what do you think of the window frame for the ground then? I
welcome any other options I can use in a room very far from a
direct earth ground. The bathroom pipes are all the way across
the room separated by a wall. Not easy to get to.

- But Counterweight sounds better.