Questions re Powering Receiver with a Gel Cell
 

Hello folks,

I'm interested powering my Drake R8B from a gel cell for outdoor use.
The use of gel cells is something I'm totally new to, so I was
wondering if perhaps some of you out there who may have some
knowledge/experience with this sorta thing might be able to give me
some pointers as to
* where I might look to find a fair deal on a gel cell
* what types of models/brands are worth consideration
* what might be required in order to hook the Drake up to a gel cell
for proper powering (wires and what-not; admittedly I'm new to
this...up to now, I've only powered the Drake from the power outlet in
the wall)
I would need something that would give me at least 20 hours or so of
usage before requiring recharge, and I'm only looking to power the R8B
with the unit (not any other accessories or the like).
Any help would be much appreciated.

jamulc

I'm no expert on these matters, but I bought an SLA battery and charger
from these folks: www.zbattery.com. I bought a 'smaller' (fewer amp
hours) battery than you're looking for, but their service was good and
I have no complaints.

You'll want to pick up a fast-blow fuse at Radio Shack for the wires
leading from the battery to the spring clip terminals on the back of
the R8B.

If you aren't planning to travel with your R8B and just want an
alternative to your AC outlet, you might also consider an external DC
power supply. Several people in this group have said nice things about
the Astron supplies. You could also get an inexpensive one from Radio
Shack. I have one and it works fine, though I have to put a bit of
distance between it and the R8B to avoid a strange noise that's
somewhere between a 'hash' and a 'hum'.

Best,

Steve

jamulc wrote:
Hello folks,

I'm interested powering my Drake R8B from a gel cell for outdoor use.
The use of gel cells is something I'm totally new to, so I was
wondering if perhaps some of you out there who may have some
knowledge/experience with this sorta thing might be able to give me
some pointers as to
* where I might look to find a fair deal on a gel cell
* what types of models/brands are worth consideration
* what might be required in order to hook the Drake up to a gel cell
for proper powering (wires and what-not; admittedly I'm new to
this...up to now, I've only powered the Drake from the power outlet in
the wall)
I would need something that would give me at least 20 hours or so of
usage before requiring recharge, and I'm only looking to power the R8B
with the unit (not any other accessories or the like).
Any help would be much appreciated.

jamulc

On 20 Jun 2005 12:14:25 -0700, "jamulc" wrote:

Hello folks,

I'm interested powering my Drake R8B from a gel cell for outdoor use.
The use of gel cells is something I'm totally new to, so I was
wondering if perhaps some of you out there who may have some
knowledge/experience with this sorta thing might be able to give me
some pointers as to
* where I might look to find a fair deal on a gel cell
* what types of models/brands are worth consideration
* what might be required in order to hook the Drake up to a gel cell
for proper powering (wires and what-not; admittedly I'm new to
this...up to now, I've only powered the Drake from the power outlet in
the wall)
I would need something that would give me at least 20 hours or so of
usage before requiring recharge, and I'm only looking to power the R8B
with the unit (not any other accessories or the like).
Any help would be much appreciated.

jamulc

2 of these?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=228193&is=REG

http://www.dekabatteries.com
they should be able to help you out there.
plus you would be "Buying American"
there one of the few american battery manufacturers left.

jamulc wrote:

Hello folks,

I'm interested powering my Drake R8B from a gel cell for outdoor use.
The use of gel cells is something I'm totally new to, so I was
wondering if perhaps some of you out there who may have some
knowledge/experience with this sorta thing might be able to give me
some pointers as to
* where I might look to find a fair deal on a gel cell
* what types of models/brands are worth consideration
* what might be required in order to hook the Drake up to a gel cell
for proper powering (wires and what-not; admittedly I'm new to
this...up to now, I've only powered the Drake from the power outlet in
the wall)
I would need something that would give me at least 20 hours or so of
usage before requiring recharge, and I'm only looking to power the R8B
with the unit (not any other accessories or the like).
Any help would be much appreciated.

jamulc
------------------------------------
How much does the radio draw?
For example my R2000 draws about 300mA or 0.3 Amps.
For it to run 20hours, I would need at least 0.3X20, or "6 amp hours".
Given that gell cell makers figure the end point at a lower voltage
then
the r2000 will really operate from, I need a battery somewhat larger.
I have operated for slightly longer then 24Hrs from a 14A/H gell cell.

My primary backup batterey is a Pansonic 20A/H gell cell.
I have a 1A fuse in the +/positive leg.

I would first try contacting local alarm companies. They have to swap
out
farily new batteries from "high value" clients at regular peroids. You
wouldn't
want a swanky store to get burgeled because the battery went flat.

A 20Hr gell cell is HEAVY. It is a small lead acid battery, the acid is
gelled, so don't plan toting this sucker several miles into the woods.
I used to take my R2000 for picnics, but it is rough on desk top radios
to be handled "roughly" . I had a travel case of 3/8" plywood with foam

cushions, but I think the jarring was part or the cause for some failed
solder connections. I know carry a DX398, no nearly the radio, but a
LOT smaller, and will run or days from a 6A/Hr 6V gell cell, or even
operate from a simple PV array I built from scalvaged "solar night
lights".

Terry

The R8B draws a lot of current...2 amps. So, he's going to need a
serious battery. For 20 hours of usage between charges, he'll need a
40A/H battery if he's to avoid 'deep discharge'. That's going to be
heavy, and expensive.

Steve

sdanie wrote:

The R8B draws a lot of current...2 amps. So, he's going to need a
serious battery. For 20 hours of usage between charges, he'll need a
40A/H battery if he's to avoid 'deep discharge'. That's going to be
heavy, and expensive.

Steve
---------------------------------------------------------------
At that current level it isn't really practical.
Like you said a 40A gell cell is going to be HEAVY.
Unless he is at home, or in a camper he needs to get a
portable SW that will use less power.

Terry

wrote:

sdanie wrote:

The R8B draws a lot of current...2 amps. So, he's going to need a
serious battery. For 20 hours of usage between charges, he'll need a
40A/H battery if he's to avoid 'deep discharge'. That's going to be
heavy, and expensive.

Steve
---------------------------------------------------------------
At that current level it isn't really practical.
Like you said a 40A gell cell is going to be HEAVY.
Unless he is at home, or in a camper he needs to get a
portable SW that will use less power.

I used to lug two deep cycle batteries to dxpeditions... it wasn't that much of
a hassle as many of them have carry handles.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/dxpage.htm

dxAce wrote:
used to lug two deep cycle batteries to dxpeditions... it wasn't that
much of
a hassle as many of them have carry handles.

dxAce
Michigan
USA
-------------------------------------
Ah, a man unafraid of exercise!
Deep cycles are back breakers.


Terry

Thanks for the input everyone. I'll spend some time looking over the
links and mulling over the advice provided.
In any case, I realize that these gel cells are on the heavier side (I
think I had seen a 31 Amp-Hour one registering at 24 lbs or so).
That's not too much of a concern. If I had a decent place to do some
serious listening from home, I would likely not be considering this
option. But, since moving to an extremely noisy apartment building in
an urban area, I have really not been able to put the R8B to the type
of listening I used to enjoy doing (e.g. chasing the Andean stations in
the tropical bands, among other things). So, having chosen an
appropriate outside listening location and having taken care of antenna
considerations, I'm just looking for a proper means of powering. A
portable receiver just isn't quite gonna give me quite the satisfaction
that I'd get using the R8B. The issue of wear and tear on the radio
is, of course, a concern. I picked up a somewhat large, padded Pelican
case for this very reason. In any case, if I'm every gonna get any
real usage out of this radio, I've gotta get it out of my present
location.

Hmmm, now that I have more info about your setup, I wonder if the real
solution isn't to be found he

http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/

I have the 330S model and it works great for me. I'm in Brooklyn, NY.
The 1530 might be better on the tropical bands. They're great antennas
for noisy environments.

Steve

Yes, I've heard quite a bit about the good results that these Wellbrook
antennas can provide. Unfortunately, I'd have nowhere to put it. I
don't even have a balcony at my present location.
The real solution would ultimately be for me to move from this place.
Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen in the short-term.

jamulc wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone. I'll spend some time looking over the
links and mulling over the advice provided.
In any case, I realize that these gel cells are on the heavier side (I
think I had seen a 31 Amp-Hour one registering at 24 lbs or so).
That's not too much of a concern. If I had a decent place to do some
serious listening from home, I would likely not be considering this
option. But, since moving to an extremely noisy apartment building in
an urban area, I have really not been able to put the R8B to the type
of listening I used to enjoy doing (e.g. chasing the Andean stations in
the tropical bands, among other things). So, having chosen an
appropriate outside listening location and having taken care of antenna
considerations, I'm just looking for a proper means of powering. A
portable receiver just isn't quite gonna give me quite the satisfaction
that I'd get using the R8B. The issue of wear and tear on the radio
is, of course, a concern. I picked up a somewhat large, padded Pelican
case for this very reason. In any case, if I'm every gonna get any
real usage out of this radio, I've gotta get it out of my present
location.


If you're driving to the location you'll be listening to, you could
easily power the radio for several hours at a clip from the car battery.

I have a gizmo intended for jump starting cars that has a 17ah battery
in it that I use for powering my telescopes. These come with a wall
wart charger, and they're pretty reasonably priced.

I also feel looking into a low noise antenna design at home makes sense.

If you haven't tried an impedance matching transformer with a random
wire, it's worth it.

jamulc wrote:

Thanks for the input everyone. I'll spend some time looking over the
links and mulling over the advice provided.
In any case, I realize that these gel cells are on the heavier side (I
think I had seen a 31 Amp-Hour one registering at 24 lbs or so).
That's not too much of a concern. If I had a decent place to do some
serious listening from home, I would likely not be considering this
option. But, since moving to an extremely noisy apartment building in
an urban area, I have really not been able to put the R8B to the type
of listening I used to enjoy doing (e.g. chasing the Andean stations in
the tropical bands, among other things). So, having chosen an
appropriate outside listening location and having taken care of antenna
considerations, I'm just looking for a proper means of powering. A
portable receiver just isn't quite gonna give me quite the satisfaction
that I'd get using the R8B. The issue of wear and tear on the radio
is, of course, a concern. I picked up a somewhat large, padded Pelican
case for this very reason. In any case, if I'm every gonna get any
real usage out of this radio, I've gotta get it out of my present
location.
---------------------------------------
If you are planing on doing your listening in a car/van you might want
to
consider adding a second battery(marine deep discharge) to the stock
one. Add a dual charging adaptor and you are set. And teh battery will

be rchared in your normal day to day driving. And by adding a single
jumper you can start even if the main battery fails.

See a local RV shop for details on the dual battery setup.

My wife had a VW transpoprter that we went camping in and the 2nd
battery
I added made weekend DXpiditions a joy. I hated it when the tranny
failed at
200K. I made a knock down desk for listening and we had hours of fun.
As a side benefit my wife became interested in radios, got her ham
license,
and has become a mild SWL fanatic. She has her own DX398 and I have
added a seperate antenna for her. We even have our own mini contests.
To be fair I split my main antenna to send her a feed, and use my DX398

instead of my R2000s' The winner gets to pick a nice restruant for the
victory
celibration.

You can even run fairly heavy 2 conductor to allow "remote" operation
up to 50'
to allow opeation from a picnic table or tent. Since my R2000 drew
about 1/10
of your Drake you would need heavier wire then I used and I don't have
a loss table handy.

Terry

jamulc wrote:
Yes, I've heard quite a bit about the good results that these Wellbrook
antennas can provide. Unfortunately, I'd have nowhere to put it. I
don't even have a balcony at my present location.
The real solution would ultimately be for me to move from this place.
Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen in the short-term.

I'm wondering if there's any chance you could get persmission to put a
Wellbrook antenna on your roof. They're no more obtrusive than the
satellite dishes that are probably already up there. If you found a
quiet spot, that might work really well.

Just a thought...

Steve

I have the 330S model and it works great for me. I'm in Brooklyn, NY.
The 1530 might be better on the tropical bands. They're great antennas
for noisy environments.

Steve


Hey Steve, how/where do you have your 330S mounted? I ordered the 1530 last
week and I haven't decided if I'll mount it at ground level or not. I am
going to put it on a rotor though, which should help with nulling at lower
frequencies.

-Brian

In theory my mounting is less than ideal, but it works very well.

I have the 330S mounted on a *horizontal* mast that attaches to my
building's fire escape and extends out far enough to get the antenna
away from the building's "noise envelope". I used clamps to gently
attach the mast to the *top* of the antenna, rather than to the base.
I'm on the third floor, so the antenna is fairly high in the air.

I considered other scenarios, some of which would have allowed me to
use a rotor. However, the antenna didn't seem to be directional on the
frequencies I normally listen to, so I decided to go with the
arrangement just described. I'm very happy with it.

Steve



Brian wrote:

Hey Steve, how/where do you have your 330S mounted? I ordered the 1530 last
week and I haven't decided if I'll mount it at ground level or not. I am
going to put it on a rotor though, which should help with nulling at lower
frequencies.

-Brian

Dear Brian,

I too own a Wellbrook ALA 330S. With this antenna or the ALA 1530 I
advocate reading and carefully following the instructions TO THE LETTER
with ONE (and this ONE ONLY) exception: pay no attention to the
"placement" recommendations. Yes, mounting the antenna outdoors well
away from a building (and its associated electrical noise) is "ideal;"
in actual practice mounting location is not at all critical.

You can mount this antenna anywhere you like - choose the place that is
most convenient and practical for you. (Obviously you don't want to
DELIBERATELY mount it near a particularly "noisy" electrical source if
there are other choices.)

I have mine mounted in my attic on a Radio Shack rotator. There it's
protected from the weather and let me tell you - it functions better
than any antenna with which I've had experience, going back over forty
years, and that includes outdoor antennas 100-feet long and longer!

Just pick a place, or even experiment until you find the location you
like. I wish you the very best of luck with your new antenna. I think
you'll love it!

Joe

Dear Steve,

I have an AOR AR7030 Plus receiver and a Wellbrook ALA 330S antenna.
Yesterday, just for the heck of it, I decided to try powering the whole
kid and kaboodle from a Century Electi-pac (Model BPIP-99), a portable
electrical power device (read: large and heavy battery).

The whole thing worked great. I listened for about an hour and a half
before I turned everything off. I then plugged the Electri-pac back
into the wall socket and within a couple of hours it was totally
recharged.

I don't know how long this would power my radio and antenna nor do I
know exactly how long it took to recharge (I went back into my room
late last night and all the LEDs were "on," indicating the unit was
totally recharged). I don't know the capacity of the battery but on the
back it's indicated 12 Volt output 20 Amps. It will power 115 Volts at
300 Watts (2.3 Amps). I've had this item for several years (actually I
have two of them); I bought it for emergency power from The Sportsman's
Guide and fortunately have never had any real need to use them. I think
I paid about $80 at the time.

I've often thought of taking my AR7030 out on a "field trip" along with
this device (I'm sure it would be powerful enough to power a Drake R8B
also) but I've never done so.

Inertia ...

Best,

Joe

I second what Joe says here. The 330s works very well in a noisy
environment and it isn't too particular abouit its location--though of
course you should try to find the quietest place possible for it. My
house must be noisier than Joe's, as it didn't work well for me indoors
(not surprising, since I live in an apartment building). However, once
I got it outdoors, I didn't have to get it very far away from my
building until it worked as described in its glowing reviews.

I'd also add that, while I could discern no real directionality with
the 330S, the 1530 apparently *is* somewhat directional and should
always be mounted on a rotor.

Steve

In article .com,
wrote:

I second what Joe says here. The 330s works very well in a noisy
environment and it isn't too particular abouit its location--though
of course you should try to find the quietest place possible for it.
My house must be noisier than Joe's, as it didn't work well for me
indoors (not surprising, since I live in an apartment building).
However, once I got it outdoors, I didn't have to get it very far
away from my building until it worked as described in its glowing
reviews.

I'd also add that, while I could discern no real directionality with
the 330S, the 1530 apparently *is* somewhat directional and should
always be mounted on a rotor.

The only difference is the bandwidth of the amplifier. It looks like
the same antenna to me. What is happening is that the lower in
frequency you receive on the more directional the antenna becomes AND
the lower frequencies have less atmospheric scattering so the station
looks more like a point source.

These small amplified loops are the way to go in noisy locations and
places where you can't put up a decent passive antenna.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California