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John Smith wrote:
YEAH!!! Hide all the answers and require 'em to come up with the answers psychically!!! ROFLOL! Get real, any college is test smart, any CS/EE technology student will blow the doors off any test any panel can come up with in damn short order. I figure that the A+ Certified computer technicians at my vocational school (whose ranks I hope to join by early next year) know more about electronics theory and construction than the average appliance operator ham. It seems to me that a lot of hams are old farts who were educated on tube equipment-all this modern stuff, including microprocessors, might as well be Chinese to them. I like the idea somebody had of an over the air test, graded by a panel of judges situated around the country. Of course, with today's appliance equipment one just has to plug it in and hook it up. I'd like to see some stuff on electrical engineering (basic theory and application) and maybe a hands on portion where the prospective ham builds and operates a simple rig. That would eliminate the "appliance operator syndrome". Of course, all this would require a lot more commitment on the part of the FCC than just a written test where the published answers can be memorized, but the FCC has shown that they don't give a flying **** about amateur radio. Like the rest of government, they're in business to give maximum profit to a favored few (the NAB, in this case) and extract maximum taxes (fines) out of the rest of us. All the FCC cares about is AM/FM broadcast radio (thus the hefty fines handed out to FM pirates while SW pirates operate with impunity for years) and TV. The FCC doesn't control cable or satellites, which have been and are taking market share away from on air operators, so the FCC is focusing on what it has control over. But SW? Forget it. WWCR operates in the tropical bands, WWRB operates out of band, and the FCC does nothing (and did I mention the pirates?). There's no profit in SW, no NAB for SW, so the FCC ignores it. John "MnMikew" wrote in message ... "beerbarrel" wrote in message ... On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:39:12 -0400, dxAce wrote: John Plimmer wrote: I couldn't agree more with dropping CW from the ham test. It reminds me of the legal profession here in South Africa. It used to be a requirement that lawyers had to pass Latin in high school and have at least two courses in Latin for their law degree. That was scrapped about ten years ago amid loud protests from the dinosaurs. Today the law profession is flourishing more than ever before with high quality judges and advocates. The only thing I have noticed is that the high and mighty no longer spew out Latin quotations = R.I.P. Our SARL (South African Radio League) ham club is diminishing by the year and the once crowded ham bands are now empty. We need to make it easier for new entrants to come into this wonderful hobby. Why does everything need to be made easier? Can't the 'tards learn the code? If so, WHY can't the 'tards learn the code? If ordinary folks could pass the test in years past what is so different today? Laziness? dxAce Michigan USA BINGO! It seems everybody wants something for nothing these days. What do you mean nothing? There's still a test. Remove the CW and make the tests harder then. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
rd:
I don't know about the A+ test, in fact, I wasn't even aware that was still around--last time I seen it was when it still seemed focused on DOS... However, any student in math, sciences, engineering, etc would have no problem studying, digesting the information and regurgitating it on a test--with excellent results... just fact... John "running dogg" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: YEAH!!! Hide all the answers and require 'em to come up with the answers psychically!!! ROFLOL! Get real, any college is test smart, any CS/EE technology student will blow the doors off any test any panel can come up with in damn short order. I figure that the A+ Certified computer technicians at my vocational school (whose ranks I hope to join by early next year) know more about electronics theory and construction than the average appliance operator ham. It seems to me that a lot of hams are old farts who were educated on tube equipment-all this modern stuff, including microprocessors, might as well be Chinese to them. I like the idea somebody had of an over the air test, graded by a panel of judges situated around the country. Of course, with today's appliance equipment one just has to plug it in and hook it up. I'd like to see some stuff on electrical engineering (basic theory and application) and maybe a hands on portion where the prospective ham builds and operates a simple rig. That would eliminate the "appliance operator syndrome". Of course, all this would require a lot more commitment on the part of the FCC than just a written test where the published answers can be memorized, but the FCC has shown that they don't give a flying **** about amateur radio. Like the rest of government, they're in business to give maximum profit to a favored few (the NAB, in this case) and extract maximum taxes (fines) out of the rest of us. All the FCC cares about is AM/FM broadcast radio (thus the hefty fines handed out to FM pirates while SW pirates operate with impunity for years) and TV. The FCC doesn't control cable or satellites, which have been and are taking market share away from on air operators, so the FCC is focusing on what it has control over. But SW? Forget it. WWCR operates in the tropical bands, WWRB operates out of band, and the FCC does nothing (and did I mention the pirates?). There's no profit in SW, no NAB for SW, so the FCC ignores it. John "MnMikew" wrote in message ... "beerbarrel" wrote in message ... On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:39:12 -0400, dxAce wrote: John Plimmer wrote: I couldn't agree more with dropping CW from the ham test. It reminds me of the legal profession here in South Africa. It used to be a requirement that lawyers had to pass Latin in high school and have at least two courses in Latin for their law degree. That was scrapped about ten years ago amid loud protests from the dinosaurs. Today the law profession is flourishing more than ever before with high quality judges and advocates. The only thing I have noticed is that the high and mighty no longer spew out Latin quotations = R.I.P. Our SARL (South African Radio League) ham club is diminishing by the year and the once crowded ham bands are now empty. We need to make it easier for new entrants to come into this wonderful hobby. Why does everything need to be made easier? Can't the 'tards learn the code? If so, WHY can't the 'tards learn the code? If ordinary folks could pass the test in years past what is so different today? Laziness? dxAce Michigan USA BINGO! It seems everybody wants something for nothing these days. What do you mean nothing? There's still a test. Remove the CW and make the tests harder then. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
dx-boob:
Actually, I have a severe distaste for "roger beep." (indeed, I should think I would dislike his whole family! grin) However, my computers sound card, patched to a mic in is able to say cutsie little mp3's, such as: "Houston, I think we have a problem" and, "Maybe the dingo ate yer baby!", etc... I don't really do echo either, however the dsp software on the sound card (written by myself, in C++) is able to provide a plethora of strange/unusual and not-often-heard effects, it is one-of-a-kind, I assure you... grin John "dxAce" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: rd: Personally, my auto-ident in CW will always be close to my heart, I fail to even notice it anymore... You got one of those on your CB? A 'roger-beep' too? dxAce Michigan USA http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/dxpage.htm |
running dogg wrote:
But those aren't actually copied by the pilots, instead a light goes on in the cockpit when the plane passes over a beacon, so the pilot knows he's on course. The code is there so the pilot can verify, if necessary, that he is tuned to the correct VOR. The Morse characters are printed on the sectional chart next to the VOR symbol. |
"dxAce" wrote in message ... The written test probably does as well. Should that also be dropped. If one can't learn even a minimum 5 WPM then they have no business in amateur radio. 5 WPM is incredibly easy, heck, even the 'tards should be able to master that. I think 20 WPM is easy. Maybe 20 should be required? DeWayne dxAce Michigan USA |
"MnMikew" wrote in message ... THATS MY POINT! Sure it might get crowded, I doubt it but it could happen. Seems the more the merrier? So people get bored on 2 and 6m and eventually drop out of ham radio. Perhaps if their interest was peaked with some HF they'd get motivated to get the code. Or if they dont like HF, no biggie. The HF ham bands are nearly deserted compared to 20 years ago. |
I have to stay awoke tonight from 2:00 AM till 3:30 AM to watch that old
Joan Blondell,Ann Dvorak,James Cagney,The Crowd Roars movie on tv.I need to buy me some kind of a gizmo to record them old movies I like. cuhulin |
"beerbarrel" wrote in message ... CW is efficient because you only have to understand the signal pattern and not the signal audio. The narrow signal also takes up little bandwidth. Not only does this make CW very efficient but also the most reliable form of communication for a person to use. Sending at 5 WPM it takes a half hour to say what you can say on a mic in a few minutes. |
"Cmdr Buzz Corey" wrote in message ... John S. wrote: Yes, or require that prospective drivers be proficient in the use of a buggy whip in addition to passing a written and practical driving test. If they are going to drive a buggy, it might be a good idea. As far as the 5 wpm code goes it's near worthless. It there was an emergency the person would be more likely to die from old age by the time he got the message sent or copied. If there's going to be a code requirement it should be fast enough to accomplish something immediately rather than too late at 5 wpm. Let's start at 20 wpm and make everyone retest periodically so they won't get rusty. But there probably wouldn't be many hams left that could pass the 20. Actually I'd rather see the code dropped. |
UP the FCC,Sideways! Frankly,George,I believe there are nothing but a
bunch of Fools and Idiots and Morons running the FCC nowdays.Let us study for a moment.Wasen't it them Fools at FCC that was considering broad band over powerlines.Yeah,and FEMA started b......g about it and them Fools at FCC backed down.UP the FCC,Sideways! 100 hundred miles Sideways! cuhulin |
Oh,I got my drivers license at Sears and Roebuck forty eight years ago.I
am cool to go. cuhulin |
I learned how to one finger hunt and peck type on this keyboard in five
minutes when I got internet access with my stupid webtv thingy in October of 1999.CW ought to be a lead pipe cinch for me to learn. cuhulin |
I call my 1986 Ford LTD car my Pimpmobile.Bandolero! movie is starting
on tb now. cuhulin |
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"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... The ARS written test has been a joke for years. All the answers are published, all one has to do is buy the book and memorize the answers.. no need to actually KNOW anything. How many of these damn 'appliance operators' nowadays can actually build their own equipment? How many can repair the appliances they buy from HRO or Universal Radio (beyond looking on the internet for mods)? Agreed. Much like the Microsoft MCSE tests were back in the NT days. There much tougher now. The ARS could easily make them harder. |
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... No. My point is that nobody needs to know ANYTHING to get an amateur radio license, because all the questions in the FCC question pool are published for anyone that wants to look for them. I don't know about where you grew up, but when and where I grew up, this was commonly referred to as cheating, Not really, an open book test perhaps. |
"beerbarrel" wrote in message ... On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:55:08 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: "beerbarrel" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:40:38 -0500, "Count Floyd" wrote: On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:02:22 UTC, beerbarrel wrote: On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:21:35 -0400, dxAce wrote: The written test probably does as well. Should that also be dropped. If one can't learn even a minimum 5 WPM then they have no business in amateur radio. 5 WPM is incredibly easy, heck, even the 'tards should be able to master that. dxAce Michigan USA CW is not going to go away just because they drop the requirement. Like Steve says, It's not that hard. Most anyone can learn 5 wpm in as little as a month or less. I think that something worth having is worth earning. That might have been true in Samuel F.B.Morse's time. Get real, code is an archaic leftover from the "old days" and has been used merely as a "stumbling block" to keep the hobby a closed society. In fact, radio itself seems to be going the way of the dodo bird, what with satellite, internet, etc. Code is about as useful as C.W. McCall' song about CB radio back in the 70's. I am not sitting at a key, wearing gaiters on my sleeves, a green visor and tapping out code over the air while the ship hits an iceberg. Come into the 21st century for Christ's sake. Should everybody go back to spark controls on an automobile? Attic fans and no A/C? McGuffey's Reader? Face it, people, technology and now rules, have to move on. Of course, I drive a 1940 Chrysler, so what do I know! CW is efficient because you only have to understand the signal pattern and not the signal audio. The narrow signal also takes up little bandwidth. Not only does this make CW very efficient but also the most reliable form of communication for a person to use. Perhaps. But efficiency dosent always equate to fun, which is the goal here isnt it? But CW is fun...ever try it? I mean seriously try it? No not really. I've tried to copy some 2m repeater CW but its a bit fast for me. Is there someplace online you can try/practice it? |
"beerbarrel" wrote in message ... On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:29:47 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... John Plimmer wrote: I couldn't agree more with dropping CW from the ham test. It reminds me of the legal profession here in South Africa. It used to be a requirement that lawyers had to pass Latin in high school and have at least two courses in Latin for their law degree. That was scrapped about ten years ago amid loud protests from the dinosaurs. Today the law profession is flourishing more than ever before with high quality judges and advocates. The only thing I have noticed is that the high and mighty no longer spew out Latin quotations = R.I.P. Our SARL (South African Radio League) ham club is diminishing by the year and the once crowded ham bands are now empty. We need to make it easier for new entrants to come into this wonderful hobby. Why does everything need to be made easier? Can't the 'tards learn the code? If so, WHY can't the 'tards learn the code? If ordinary folks could pass the test in years past what is so different today? Laziness? It's like being certified in COBOL when you work on MSSQL, it's a waste of time. But COBOL is still a viable language.... True, but it's popularity is waning. |
"dxAce" wrote in message ... Code proficient. You're sure not phone proficient. Wanna bet? I didnt think you could say 'tard on the air. |
The ARS written test has been a joke for years. All the answers are
published, all one has to do is buy the book and memorize the answers.. no need to actually KNOW anything a bit of a strawman argument, as the other FCC exams are also published. When I tested for my 1st Class lic back in 78 (now the GROL) we learned the test by taking and retaking older tests, provided to us at Brown Inst by the FCC themselves. You still gotta know the maths to do the formulae, etc. But most the other regualtory stuff is easy to whip by rote memory... I don't see wiping away the CW req. to really boost the roles of us hams, it's a slowily dying hobby, well not dying, I don;t think it'll ever go dark on us, but it ain't what it was. 73 de Dave N0TXW. |
Rufus Leaking wrote:
The ARS written test has been a joke for years. All the answers are published, all one has to do is buy the book and memorize the answers.. no need to actually KNOW anything a bit of a strawman argument, as the other FCC exams are also published. When I tested for my 1st Class lic back in 78 (now the GROL) we learned the test by taking and retaking older tests, provided to us at Brown Inst by the FCC themselves. You still gotta know the maths to do the formulae, etc. But most the other regualtory stuff is easy to whip by rote memory... The dirty little secret is that ALL Federally required tests are published as required by law. Even FAA tests are published. The testing issue is not an issue. And hasn't been for a long time. And they're all multiple choice. |
Yes. What a ridiculous way to run a test, and every college does
it!!! If you can prove you know by answering the questions correctly--they pass you!!! Damn quacks, imagine the folly in that! ROFLOL!!!! John "MnMikew" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... No. My point is that nobody needs to know ANYTHING to get an amateur radio license, because all the questions in the FCC question pool are published for anyone that wants to look for them. I don't know about where you grew up, but when and where I grew up, this was commonly referred to as cheating, Not really, an open book test perhaps. |
I Propose DROP the FCC.(FEMA too) (DROP THEM ALL) Them FEMA Freaks got
all shook up about broad band over power lines. cuhulin |
Loctite? Don't put that crap on screws that hold plastic pickup truck
tail light lenses.You don't believe me? Try it and see.UP! Loctite! Sideways! cuhulin |
Every since my old pickup truck plastic tail light lenses fell off
because I screwed up and used Loctite on the screws,There is NO WAY! on GOD's Earth I will ever waste my money on ANY Loctite products ever again! Ladies and Gentlemen,Boys and Girls,Stay Away From Loctite products! cuhulin |
I am fixin to trot over to the Goodwill store (that pretty married Irish
woman wayyyy over yonder across the big pond tells me,Larry,you don't need any more junk! [sure I do,Maggie]) for a while.I might find me a reel good radio over there for about three or four dollars. cuhulin |
They need instructions on the bottle which make it very plain that the
results of using their product are directly related to ones ability to follow simple written instruction and apply the use of simple logic. Can you write clear enough to make yourself understood (this is unclear from your past posts here), anyway, if so, write them and explain what has happened, perhaps they have a "welfare-tail-light-replacement-plan" and will help ya out a bit. Just a thought, hope it helps... John wrote in message ... Every since my old pickup truck plastic tail light lenses fell off because I screwed up and used Loctite on the screws,There is NO WAY! on GOD's Earth I will ever waste my money on ANY Loctite products ever again! Ladies and Gentlemen,Boys and Girls,Stay Away From Loctite products! cuhulin |
Cobol and Fortran programmers are disappearing breeds.....
|
"beerbarrel" wrote in message ... On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:03:14 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: "beerbarrel" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:29:47 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... John Plimmer wrote: I couldn't agree more with dropping CW from the ham test. It reminds me of the legal profession here in South Africa. It used to be a requirement that lawyers had to pass Latin in high school and have at least two courses in Latin for their law degree. That was scrapped about ten years ago amid loud protests from the dinosaurs. Today the law profession is flourishing more than ever before with high quality judges and advocates. The only thing I have noticed is that the high and mighty no longer spew out Latin quotations = R.I.P. Our SARL (South African Radio League) ham club is diminishing by the year and the once crowded ham bands are now empty. We need to make it easier for new entrants to come into this wonderful hobby. Why does everything need to be made easier? Can't the 'tards learn the code? If so, WHY can't the 'tards learn the code? If ordinary folks could pass the test in years past what is so different today? Laziness? It's like being certified in COBOL when you work on MSSQL, it's a waste of time. But COBOL is still a viable language.... True, but it's popularity is waning. I do have a buddy that programs for Loctite amd makes well up into 6 figures. It's still used pretty heavily in the business world. Sure is. My shop is finally moving away from cobol to all java in the next few years. |
"John S." wrote in message ups.com... Cobol and Fortran programmers are disappearing breeds..... Yeppers, they made a killing during Y2K, probably all retired. |
Usually you see them still at banks, and gov't institutions or such...
only the cutting edge and technical uses require the real power of C++ and assembly... John "John S." wrote in message ups.com... Cobol and Fortran programmers are disappearing breeds..... |
Well, if you have a very fast processor and no need for speed or the
power, java can be pressed into a functional use... However, when you already have the syntax of C++, why tie your hands with java, a pseudo-language really... it steals C syntax to run scripted and byte code... Of course, if you don't understand the difference of a real programming language which is compiled and linked--as opposed to java, it is a moot point... John "MnMikew" wrote in message ... "beerbarrel" wrote in message ... On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:03:14 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: "beerbarrel" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:29:47 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... John Plimmer wrote: I couldn't agree more with dropping CW from the ham test. It reminds me of the legal profession here in South Africa. It used to be a requirement that lawyers had to pass Latin in high school and have at least two courses in Latin for their law degree. That was scrapped about ten years ago amid loud protests from the dinosaurs. Today the law profession is flourishing more than ever before with high quality judges and advocates. The only thing I have noticed is that the high and mighty no longer spew out Latin quotations = R.I.P. Our SARL (South African Radio League) ham club is diminishing by the year and the once crowded ham bands are now empty. We need to make it easier for new entrants to come into this wonderful hobby. Why does everything need to be made easier? Can't the 'tards learn the code? If so, WHY can't the 'tards learn the code? If ordinary folks could pass the test in years past what is so different today? Laziness? It's like being certified in COBOL when you work on MSSQL, it's a waste of time. But COBOL is still a viable language.... True, but it's popularity is waning. I do have a buddy that programs for Loctite amd makes well up into 6 figures. It's still used pretty heavily in the business world. Sure is. My shop is finally moving away from cobol to all java in the next few years. |
In article ,
John Smith wrote: Tell me, what is/are a legitimate argument(s) to keep CW a requirement, which any sane man/woman could argue with real and logical conviction? The real reason for the Morse requirement was, (three quarters of a century ago or so, after WW I), to maintain a pool of people that could be inducted into the military in times of war to maintain communications on the battlefield. Learning Morse is not a natural act. Nor, for more than a small percentage of the population, very easy. Getting a bunch of Signal Corps cannon fodder to train themselves was a great boon. Back about 20 years ago, when Digital Signal Processor ICs were first coming out, I did a bunch of library research on the possiblity of building a box that could match the performance of a human operator. The newest paper I could find on the actual use of CW, in the open literature, was from 1959. They were no longer interested in using it. It takes too long to train an operator, and the data transmission capacity is too low. And if the radio operator gets shot... (There was, reportedly, a lot of expertise in the NSA and its military affiliates in automated CW intercepts, as the Soviet Union and third world still had a lot of tactical comm. in CW at that time). But at that same time, 20 years ago, I got some insight, (at a job interview), into what the miltary was planning for the future. It was automating an entire infantry division with packet radio. Not much reason to learn Morse code when the field radios had 20 kbps (?) packet modems built in, and the field officers could just plug the Grid portable into them. So the military no longer has any need and it's taken 40 years for the ham "community" to figure this out. Mark Zenier Washington State resident |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Well, if you have a very fast processor and no need for speed or the power, java can be pressed into a functional use... However, when you already have the syntax of C++, why tie your hands with java, a pseudo-language really... it steals C syntax to run scripted and byte code... Of course, if you don't understand the difference of a real programming language which is compiled and linked--as opposed to java, it is a moot point... Good luck running that cobol on any modern application servers like Websphere or Weblogic. |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Usually you see them still at banks, and gov't institutions or such... only the cutting edge and technical uses require the real power of C++ and assembly... Now that's funny. |
beerbarrel wrote: On 22 Jul 2005 10:28:47 -0700, "John S." wrote: Cobol and Fortran programmers are disappearing breeds..... But good ones still make good money... Oh yeah, somebody has to keep those old legacy systems running. The ones that do the job so well because they are simple for end users. |
Oh really, funny? Well, yah, funny the cobol'ers/fortran'ers don't
get a clue... But then look at ham radio, took up till now for CW to be dropped, with the "religious fanatic following" screaming right up till the last moment that CW would live forever. Now they stand looking like "dumbkoffs" and worse... Does it surprise anyone that there are groups like this on the subject of computer languages? Well, I suppose so, but "dumbkoffs" exist there too... John "MnMikew" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Usually you see them still at banks, and gov't institutions or such... only the cutting edge and technical uses require the real power of C++ and assembly... Now that's funny. |
"beerbarrel" wrote in message ... On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 14:14:13 -0500, "MnMikew" wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... Well, if you have a very fast processor and no need for speed or the power, java can be pressed into a functional use... However, when you already have the syntax of C++, why tie your hands with java, a pseudo-language really... it steals C syntax to run scripted and byte code... Of course, if you don't understand the difference of a real programming language which is compiled and linked--as opposed to java, it is a moot point... Good luck running that cobol on any modern application servers like Websphere or Weblogic. Yep...I think he programs on a AS400 if memory serves me... ahhh yes, the good ol green screens. Our applications still run on the good ol AS400, though that may change once we make the switch. |
Who are you talking to?
I am C++/assembly on the IBM platform here (mostly, there is always some old code someone wants to maintain, somewhere)... Sure in the past I have done COBOL, pascal, fortran, snobal, visual basic, basic, etc, etc... but years ago now... I realized the first time I seen "C" that it was the future, however, took me a bit to accept that openly (month or two while I picked up the syntax, back in the 90's) COBOL is as dead as CW, but old farts still use it... Java can do most all of what perl can do, perl just does it better... for a "compiled script language" perl rocks... John "MnMikew" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Well, if you have a very fast processor and no need for speed or the power, java can be pressed into a functional use... However, when you already have the syntax of C++, why tie your hands with java, a pseudo-language really... it steals C syntax to run scripted and byte code... Of course, if you don't understand the difference of a real programming language which is compiled and linked--as opposed to java, it is a moot point... Good luck running that cobol on any modern application servers like Websphere or Weblogic. |
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:47:56 -0400, dxAce
wrote: Difference is 'tard boy... I'm not a dx-idiot! You could've fooled me... |
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