"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...


Burr wrote:
SANTA FE (July 24) - Actress and activist Jane Fonda says she
intends to
take a cross-country bus tour to call for an end to U.S. military
operations
in Iraq.
"I can't go into any detail except to say that it's going to be
pretty
exciting," she said.

Fonda said her anti-war tour in March will use a bus that runs on
"vegetable
oil." She will be joined by families of Iraq war veterans and her
daughter.

They plan to return to the Santa Fe area where she was promoting
her book,
"My Life So Far" on Saturday.

Prompted by a question from the audience, Fonda said war veterans
that she's
met on a cross-country book tour have encouraged her to break her
silence on
the Iraq war.

"I've decided I'm coming out," she said.

Hundreds of people in the audience cheered loudly when Fonda
announced her
intentions to join the anti-Iraq war movement.

"I have not taken a stand on any war since Vietnam," she said. "I
carry a
lot of baggage from that."

Fonda incited controversy in July 1972 when she was photographed
sitting on
a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun while on a tour of the
country to drum
up support to end the war. She has repeatedly said she did not
mean any harm
by the photos. Earlier this year, a Vietnam veteran spat in her
face at a
signing.

But, except for one booing audience member, the reception was
friendly in
Santa Fe. More than 500 copies of her book were sold.

Charles Powell, a member of Albuquerque's Veterans for Peace, said
he
believes Fonda's actions in Vietnam should be forgiven.

"We accept her apology and feel that she should be treated like a
human
being," Powell said.



Oh, good, I can hardly wait for the Hanoi Jane entourage to show up
in
my city for anti-Iraq war demonstrations. Say, I have a better
idea,
why don't they drive their environmentally proper
vegetable-oil-burning-bus to Iraq, settle in with some of the
insurgents and maybe set up a bookstore. Yes, I can see it now. In
some bombed out shell of a building a new beginning: Fallujah
Jane's
Mostly Used Books, J. Fonda, prop. All fading traitors should get
one
more chance to replay their moment of notoriety. I think I will
plan a
vacation in some other state.

BTW, I disagree with the reasons used to justify our being in Iraq,
but
would never see Hanoi Jane as a spokesperson for those who oppose
our
current involvement.

All that's old is new again. Unfortunately.

Kinda like the late 80's pseudo-hippie movement.

--Mike L.

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...


Michael Lawson wrote:
"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...


Burr wrote:
SANTA FE (July 24) - Actress and activist Jane Fonda says she
intends to
take a cross-country bus tour to call for an end to U.S.
military
operations
in Iraq.
"I can't go into any detail except to say that it's going to
be
pretty
exciting," she said.

Fonda said her anti-war tour in March will use a bus that runs
on
"vegetable
oil." She will be joined by families of Iraq war veterans and
her
daughter.

They plan to return to the Santa Fe area where she was
promoting
her book,
"My Life So Far" on Saturday.

Prompted by a question from the audience, Fonda said war
veterans
that she's
met on a cross-country book tour have encouraged her to break
her
silence on
the Iraq war.

"I've decided I'm coming out," she said.

Hundreds of people in the audience cheered loudly when Fonda
announced her
intentions to join the anti-Iraq war movement.

"I have not taken a stand on any war since Vietnam," she said.
"I
carry a
lot of baggage from that."

Fonda incited controversy in July 1972 when she was
photographed
sitting on
a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun while on a tour of the
country to drum
up support to end the war. She has repeatedly said she did not
mean any harm
by the photos. Earlier this year, a Vietnam veteran spat in
her
face at a
signing.

But, except for one booing audience member, the reception was
friendly in
Santa Fe. More than 500 copies of her book were sold.

Charles Powell, a member of Albuquerque's Veterans for Peace,
said
he
believes Fonda's actions in Vietnam should be forgiven.

"We accept her apology and feel that she should be treated
like a
human
being," Powell said.



Oh, good, I can hardly wait for the Hanoi Jane entourage to show
up
in
my city for anti-Iraq war demonstrations. Say, I have a better
idea,
why don't they drive their environmentally proper
vegetable-oil-burning-bus to Iraq, settle in with some of the
insurgents and maybe set up a bookstore. Yes, I can see it now.
In
some bombed out shell of a building a new beginning: Fallujah
Jane's
Mostly Used Books, J. Fonda, prop. All fading traitors should
get
one
more chance to replay their moment of notoriety. I think I will
plan a
vacation in some other state.

BTW, I disagree with the reasons used to justify our being in
Iraq,
but
would never see Hanoi Jane as a spokesperson for those who
oppose
our
current involvement.

All that's old is new again. Unfortunately.

Kinda like the late 80's pseudo-hippie movement.

Missed that movement completely...and I was around for thr original
hippie movement.

Happened around 87-92, mainly late high school and
college age people, and was probably triggered by all
the "Summer of Love" retrospectives and Beatles
shows on television at the time. The Val Kilmer movie,
The Doors, probably helped feed it too. The movement
really didn't stand for anything other than acting like
a hippie and thinking you were cool for doing so.
Grunge swept both the pseudo hippies and the LA
metal sound out from the public's eye.

--Mike L.

I hope you mean either with a camera or at you. Pretty ignorant to suggest
such violence regardless of your disagreement with someone's views of
behaviour. I thought your country's founding principles included such
freedoms (or perhaps this is a "founding myth").

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
I hope you mean either with a camera or at you. Pretty ignorant to suggest
such violence regardless of your disagreement with someone's views of
behaviour. I thought your country's founding principles included such
freedoms (or perhaps this is a "founding myth").

Expressing your view and committing Treason (Fonda), Terrorism, Murder,
etc., are completely different issues.
Or don't they teach you that in your country?

The poster expressed his view which is allowed under our Constitution.
Do you have a problem with him expressing his view because it is contrary to
your own?
That could be construed as being dictatorial. Is that the founding
principle of your country?

Maybe she could work a stop in at the Local VA Hospital.

She could park her bus right out front where she could be sure everyone
would see her and have a clear field of "site"!!!

"SeeingEyeDog" wrote in message
...
Jane Fonda visited Hanoi during the Vietnam War, at which time she accused
American soldiers of acting as "war criminals"

Claimed that if Americans understood communism they would get down on
their
knees and pray for it to come.

What Fonda did, in fact, far exceeds the actual conduct and activities of
some of those who were convicted and imprisoned for their treasonous
activity in World War II.

By the time Fonda left for Hanoi, she was already immersed in the
radicalized New Left culture of the late 1960s, and had already issued
statements accusing American soldiers of acting as virtual "war criminals"
who routinely tortured, raped and murdered innocent Vietnamese. She then
joined forces with Tom Hayden, who had moved his activism in the direction
of creating his own new anti-Vietnam war organization.

Fonda's activities took place in the context of the vicious and inhumane
treatment of American prisoners of war - treatment that violated every
main
tenet of the Geneva Convention, and which was on the level of the
treatment
given to concentration camp prisoners by the Nazis, and to World War II
POWs by the Japanese. It was, as one former prisoner recounts, "a
nightmare
of hellish proportions that transformed civilized human beings into primal
animals struggling to cling to some fleeting sense of what it means to be
alive."

[The Leftwing in America never protest against the enemy Communists in any
conflict, NEVER!]

Fonda attended forced and staged meetings with American POWs, who refused
to
cooperate or talk with her, and who went out of their way to ignore the
pleas of their captors to acquiesce in the propaganda. Nevertheless, Fonda
immediately went on the air and lied about her meetings, presenting phony
stories about how well the captured troops were being treated at the
infamous "Hanoi Hilton" POW camp. "They are all in good health," she said
in
yet another broadcast; "We had a very long.very open and casual talk. We
exchanged ideas freely," and these men told her about their "sense of
disgust of the war." None of what she said, of course, had an ounce of
truth
to it. As the Holzers put it: "These lies were simply more canned North
Vietnamese propaganda, broadcast in furtherance of Fonda's intent to
damage
the United States and help the North Vietnamese."

What she did was sordid, vile, unpatriotic and unconscionable, and as the
Holzers write, "beneath contempt." She could have been indicted, and a
jury
of Fonda's peers would have had the opportunity to judge her actions.

Her activities clearly fit the bill of giving distinct "aid and comfort"
to
America's enemies. It demoralized many of the soldiers, made things worse
for the POWs, humanized the enemy to Americans at home, and gave the Hanoi
regime confidence that it should hold on in the face of battlefield
reverses, because propaganda such as that by Fonda would eventually allow
them to gain the upper hand. We read the words of analyses by propaganda
experts of her words, which makes it clear, as one former Brigadier
General
wrote, the intent of which was "to demoralize and discourage, stir
dissent,
and stimulate desertion."

While on her book tour in Kansas City, a Vietnam veteran spat tobacco
juice
in Fonda's face. The man, who had waited in line for 90 minutes to meet
Fonda, later told reporters that the actress/author was a "traitor" who
had
been spitting in the faces of war veterans for years, and that he had no
regrets about what he had done to her: "There are a lot of veterans who
would love to do what I did."

Now, decades after Jane Fonda's trip, Henry Mark Holzer and Erika Holzer,
both of them writers as well as lawyers, have published a book that seeks
to
make the case that in fact, Jane Fonda engaged in acts that make her
guilty
of the actual legal grounds for treason, which as laid out in the
Constitution, defines the act as "levying War against them, or, in
adhering
to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." To be found guilty, a
person
had to have two witnesses to the overt act they committed, or have made a
full confession in an open court.

In their book, Aid and Comfort:' Jane Fonda in North Vietnam (Jefferson,
North Carolina: McFarland and Company, 2002. 206 pp. $39.95), Henry Holzer
makes it clear in his introduction that when he began his book, he too had
no opinion about whether Jane Fonda had committed treason when she
traveled
to Hanoi in July of 1972. He decided to take a closer look at the actual
text of her propaganda broadcasts made in Hanoi, what she said and did
during her visit there, and what effect it had on those GI's who were
being
held as POW's. His conclusion was simply that there was "enough evidence
to
submit to a jury, that the jury could have convicted her, and that a
conviction probably would have been upheld on appeal." Of course, not only
did that not take place, but Jane Fonda went on to resume an illustrious
career in Hollywood [always was a bastion of Communists - read the book
Red
Star Over Hollywood.], has received numerous awards, and has become, as
Holzer writes, "an American icon."

The Holzers' book, then, is written as an attempt to pursue justice. For
this reader, the first part of the book is the most compelling, and
indeed,
a harrowing read. What the Holzers reveal is the full story of the
torture,
degradation and violations of common humanity inflicted upon American POWs
by the North Vietnamese Communists. Of course, reports of this have been
made by some of those who suffered directly. But with the attention of
Americans and the media at the time, and long after, on the horrors of the
war, somehow or other, the story of what happened to American prisoners of
Hanoi got lost. The Holzers shed more light on this, and bring to the
story
the sordid role played by Fonda in responsibility for the misery they
suffered.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=1468



IMHO she should not have been allowed back into the country. I'm not
surprised Hollywood accepted her back and made her rich. Now, even IF the
war was wrong, you don't do what she did. You fight the war at home and
protest, not use your fame to show the whole world how you feel and
disrepect the country, the soldiers and the American people. How she was not
severely "injured" when she came back is very surprising. I guess people
didn't want to lower themselves to less then her level.

Lucky

All that's old is new again. Unfortunately.

Kinda like the late 80's pseudo-hippie movement.

Missed that movement completely...and I was around for thr original
hippie movement.

Happened around 87-92, mainly late high school and
college age people, and was probably triggered by all
the "Summer of Love" retrospectives and Beatles
shows on television at the time. The Val Kilmer movie,
The Doors, probably helped feed it too. The movement
really didn't stand for anything other than acting like
a hippie and thinking you were cool for doing so.
Grunge swept both the pseudo hippies and the LA
metal sound out from the public's eye.

They're wannabe hippies attracted to the colorful clothes, flower power
language of the 60's and early 70's and grainy movies of happenings at
outdoor rock concerts. What they were missing was the reality of a
portion of a generation of kids caught up in a lot of drug use (opening
ones mind) and living in truly deplorable conditions (communes and
Haight-Ashbury). Fortunately many of them grew up and became
contributing members of society.

SeeingEyeDog wrote:


"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
I hope you mean either with a camera or at you. Pretty ignorant to
suggest such violence regardless of your disagreement with someone's
views of
behaviour. I thought your country's founding principles included such
freedoms (or perhaps this is a "founding myth").

Expressing your view and committing Treason (Fonda), Terrorism, Murder,
etc., are completely different issues.
Or don't they teach you that in your country?

The poster expressed his view which is allowed under our Constitution.
Do you have a problem with him expressing his view because it is contrary
to your own?
That could be construed as being dictatorial. Is that the founding
principle of your country?

Expressing a view and suggesting shooting another person are different
things. This has nothing to do with viewpoints and everything to do with
advocating violence.

uncle arnie wrote:
SeeingEyeDog wrote:


"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
I hope you mean either with a camera or at you. Pretty ignorant to
suggest such violence regardless of your disagreement with someone's
views of
behaviour. I thought your country's founding principles included such
freedoms (or perhaps this is a "founding myth").

Expressing your view and committing Treason (Fonda), Terrorism, Murder,
etc., are completely different issues.
Or don't they teach you that in your country?

The poster expressed his view which is allowed under our Constitution.
Do you have a problem with him expressing his view because it is contrary
to your own?
That could be construed as being dictatorial. Is that the founding
principle of your country?

Expressing a view and suggesting shooting another person are different
things. This has nothing to do with viewpoints and everything to do with
advocating violence.

I agree with Arnie 100% on this. Threats or suggestions of violence
have NO place on this group.

"Burr" wrote in message
news:aTdFe.1891$Eo3.739@trnddc08...
SANTA FE (July 24) - Actress and activist Jane Fonda says she intends to
take a cross-country bus tour to call for an end to U.S. military
operations in Iraq.
"I can't go into any detail except to say that it's going to be pretty
exciting," she said.

Fonda said her anti-war tour in March will use a bus that runs on
"vegetable oil." She will be joined by families of Iraq war veterans and
her daughter.

They plan to return to the Santa Fe area where she was promoting her book,
"My Life So Far" on Saturday.

Prompted by a question from the audience, Fonda said war veterans that
she's met on a cross-country book tour have encouraged her to break her
silence on the Iraq war.

"I've decided I'm coming out," she said.

Hundreds of people in the audience cheered loudly when Fonda announced her
intentions to join the anti-Iraq war movement.

"I have not taken a stand on any war since Vietnam," she said. "I carry a
lot of baggage from that."

Fonda incited controversy in July 1972 when she was photographed sitting
on a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun while on a tour of the country to
drum up support to end the war. She has repeatedly said she did not mean
any harm by the photos. Earlier this year, a Vietnam veteran spat in her
face at a signing.

But, except for one booing audience member, the reception was friendly in
Santa Fe. More than 500 copies of her book were sold.

Charles Powell, a member of Albuquerque's Veterans for Peace, said he
believes Fonda's actions in Vietnam should be forgiven.

"We accept her apology and feel that she should be treated like a human
being," Powell said.


07-24-05 22:19 EDT

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press


It's about time for people to start coming out against this insane,
wrong-war that should never have happened.
Peter