w_tom - I do believe you make a very valid and important point. After
reading up on it a bit, one point grounding is one of the most important
things that need to be checked. As you mentioned the cheaper surge
protectors need that good ground to work properly. I'm still researching
this and have to agree at this point, the best protection is to disconnect
everything but there are times that's not practical. Once again, THANKS to
everybody that's helping out.


"w_tom" wrote in message
...
I believe you have completely missed the point made by
. Somehow you think a surge protector
is surge protection. During the surge, a wire or a surge
protector does the same thing. And both are only as effective
as the earth ground they connect to. Even the world's best
'whole house' protectors is no better than a plug-in
protectors without the most critical component in a surge
protection 'system'. Single point earth ground defines the
quality of that protection.

Why is a 'whole house' protector effective? If it makes a
short connection to earth, then the protector is doing as Ben
Franklin demonstrated in 1752. What do plug-in protectors
(especially APC) forget to mention to sell their grossly
overpriced and undersized protectors? Earth ground. What did
define when he was discussing effective
protection? Earth ground. What did the utility customer
service rep (who probably has no experience with what another
division of the utility deals with often) not mention?
Earthing.

Take the money mostly wasted on plug-in protectors to
address the one component required in every protection system
- earth ground. First and foremost, every incoming utility
must make a connection to the same earthing point when
entering a building. This connection is either using a direct
hardwired connection (ie CATV, satellite dish) or via a 'whole
house' protectors (AC electric and telephone). The telco
already installs a 'whole house' protector for free. How
effective is it? What kind of earth ground did you provide
for the telco to connect to?

Notice CATV has no protector nor is a protector needed. A
connection to earth ground is via a hard wire. No protector
required because that wire does the same function.

This figure from the NIST demonstrates why improperly
earthed incoming utilities result in fax machine damage. Even
the protectors are not effective. Why? Earthing defines
protection (or in this case, lack of protection):
http://www.epri-peac.com/tutorials/sol01tut.html

A surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
Earthing (not a protector) is the protection. Those who
promote the protector instead of earth ground clearly don't
know why or what makes protectors effective. Better spent
money is on the earthing system; not on undersized,
overpriced, and ineffective plug-in protectors.

finalquest wrote:
I'd like to thank everybody for the help..... I won't be moving to
the desert though. After speaking with the local electric utility
I'm going for the whole house surge protector with smaller plug in
units for all electronics. The APC units are under consideration.

A previous discussion between engineers about earthing was
in two discussions in the newsgroup misc.rural entitled:
Storm and Lightning damage in the country 28 Jul 2002
Lightning Nightmares!! 10 Aug 2002
http://tinyurl.com/ghgv and http://tinyurl.com/ghgm

If your building does not, at minimum, meet post 1990
National Electrical Code (NEC) requirements, then sufficient
earthing may exist. Connection to cold water pipe is no
longer sufficient to earth for human safety reasons. Earthing
for transistor safety typically exceeds what the NEC requires.

Distance to that earth ground is critical. Plug-in 'shunt
mode' protectors are too far from earth ground; not
sufficiently earthed to provide secondary protection.
Therefore those ineffective (and so grossly undersized)
protectors avoid all discussion about earthing.

Earthing a building is for secondary protection. Also
inspect earthing for your primary protection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Ham radio operators would disconnect the antenna, place the
antenna lead inside a mason jar, and still suffer damage.
Disconnecting alone was not sufficient protection. Damage
stopped when the antenna lead was earthed. Do as Ben
Franklin demonstrated in 1752. Give the surge a
non-destructive path to earth. Lightning rods and 'whole
house' protector; both do same. Earth before lightning can
enter a building.

finalquest wrote:
w_tom - I do believe you make a very valid and important point. After
reading up on it a bit, one point grounding is one of the most
important things that need to be checked. As you mentioned the
cheaper surge protectors need that good ground to work properly. I'm
still researching this and have to agree at this point, the best
protection is to disconnect everything but there are times that's not
practical. Once again, THANKS to everybody that's helping out.

tvtower.fpl.html That guy sure got that right about Bell South,and how!
Last year,starting the first night of November on through about half of
December,my phone line would quit working every single time it rained
here and by the time I got my phone line repaired,it had rained over
fourteen seperate times here.I phoned them two times and still didn't
get my outside phone line repaired.I phoned them a third time and a Bell
South repairman guy disconnected a wire inside my phone box inside my
carport.My house has a crawlspace under it high enough I can sit up
under there and my own phone wires are always dry under there where they
are fastened to the floor rafters/boards.It never rains on that box
which is mounted about three feet high on a wooden baseboard above the
concrete foundation of my house,the phone box is always high and dry.The
wire he disconnected is a wire from their end of the phone wires up
there on that pole at the end of my driveway by the road.Bell
South,(RIPP OFF! Bell South!) wanted to charge me $101.50 for something
that had nothing to do at all with the phone wires from my end of my
phone line wires to their phone box.You have to always be on your toes
and watch out! about those utility Crooks!
cuhulin

Ham radio operators would disconnect the antenna, place the
antenna lead inside a mason jar, and still suffer damage.


Only dumbass hams, and some CBers did that stunt. About a
stupid trick...Like a little glass bottle is going to stunt a
strike that traveled a few miles in *air* to get there...
When I ground out my feedlines, it's to a good ground, and
is totally outside. When I take a strike, or even a close
non direct strike, you can hear those feed to ground
connections arc, even though they are connected by
so-239's/pl-259's. I've never had any trouble using that
method, and I've had two direct strikes to my mast in the last
4-5 years. My mast directs most of the energy to ground,
but you still have some current on the lines that needs to be
cleaned up. You sure don't want to run it into the house...
If the coax is elevated, and not snubbed to ground at any
point, the strike potential at the end of the feedline will be
*HUGE*. Disaster city... That much potential can travel halfway
across a house looking for ground. Usually will seek plumbing,
toilets, etc. I've heard of toilets being blown to bits in a case
like that.
MK

Welll.....Sorta... To me, it's almost in both directions at the same
time it's so quick. I guess you could consider the streamer as the
first part of the strike, but you need a down leader to complete
the strike. The downleader connects with the streamer, and you
have a strike, which can pulse more than once. If you have a streamer,

and no leaders find it, you ain't gonna have a strike. So it takes
both ends to make a strike. Saying it starts at the bottom is semi
misleading, to me anyway...It really goes both ways, and they meet
in the middle to complete a strike. Or thats the way I see it...
But, the streamer does form first of the two, so I guess that would
make it seem to start at the bottom... MK

wrote:
Ham radio operators would disconnect the antenna, place the
antenna lead inside a mason jar, and still suffer damage.

Only dumbass hams, and some CBers did that stunt. About a
stupid trick...Like a little glass bottle is going to stunt a
strike that traveled a few miles in *air* to get there...
...

The point of that post was overlooked. If they were using
mason jars, well, what year do were they learning how to
protect from lightning? 1920? Effective protection (by using
techniques far more reliable than disconnecting) has been that
well understood for that long. Yet even in an internet age,
myths still claim that effective protection is disconnecting.
Disconnecting can help IF humans are sufficiently reliable
(which they are not). Disconnecting was still not sufficient
when damage occurred almost 100 years ago. And yet still
myths about disconnecting continue.

Effective protection by earthing is always working; 24/7/52
weeks every year.

Earthing is what plug-in protectors forget to mention to
sell their ineffective and excessively profitable products.
Disconnecting is not sufficient especially when effective
protection is so easy, so reliable, and so inexpensive.

wrote:



Water meters are not electrically
conductive (they are made of brass or a similar material to prevent
rusting out,put a little magnet on the water meter and check it out)


You must have something else on what passes for a brain in your doggie debutante
world. Brass, bronze and similar metal are electrically conductive. Being
ferrous is not a condition needed for conductivity.







magnetic mike II

finalquest wrote:
w_tom - I do believe you make a very valid and important point. After
reading up on it a bit, one point grounding is one of the most important
things that need to be checked. As you mentioned the cheaper surge
protectors need that good ground to work properly. I'm still researching
this and have to agree at this point, the best protection is to disconnect
everything but there are times that's not practical. Once again, THANKS to
everybody that's helping out.


Indeed w_tom makes the best point about protection -- only a single
point ground for ALL points in a system in which all are tied together
and utilize a single point for a collective ground is effective. Damage
is (and will) be done if there is ANY means for a potential to vary in a
system. In other words, ALL points must rise and fall at the same time.
Current flows when there is a difference in two points in a system. My
radio tower is 65' high and located in west central Florida, aka
Lightning Capital of the US. After a strike to the foundation of my home
3 years ago, which literally blew ceramic tiles off the concrete slab
and turned them to shattered glass shards, and blew a 3 inch deep, 2
inch wide chasm some 5 feet long into the concrete, I undertook to make
certain I was safer. The strike did not hit my tower...it actually
struck the telephone equipment point 90 away in the front of my home.
The measures I took are on my web page: http://www.knology.net/~res0958z/

Bill
KC9CS

"m II" wrote in message
news:HpgIe.126039$wr.91437@clgrps12...

magnetic mike II

AKA the "Man of Steel"?

Nice web page you have there,very informative too.
cuhulin