A rough reconstruction of the flooding based on anecdotal accounts,
interviews, and computer modeling, shows that the huge scale of the
overlapping floods – one fast, one slow – should have been clear to
some officials by mid-afternoon Monday, when city representatives
confirmed that the 17th Street canal floodwall had been breached.

At that point areas to the east were submerged from the earlier
flooding, trapping thousands, while gradually rising waters stretched
from the Lakefront across to Mid City and almost to the Central
Business District.

Federal officials have referred to the levee breaches as a separate
and much later event from the flooding to the east, and said that they
were unaware of the gravity of the problem until Tuesday, suggesting
valuable response time was lost.

“It was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was
no possibility of plugging the (17th Street canal) gap and that
essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city. I
think that second catastrophe really caught everybody by surprise,”
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Sunday, adding that
he believed the breach had occurred Monday night or Tuesday morning.
By that time, flooding from at least one of the two breached canals
already had been under way all day Monday, evidence shows.

Even on Tuesday, as still-rising waters covered most of New Orleans,
FEMA official Bill Lokey sounded a reassuring note in a Baton Rouge
briefing.

“I don't want to alarm everybody that, you know, New Orleans is
filling up like a bowl,” Lokey said. “That's just not happening.”

Once a levee or floodwall is breached by a hurricane storm surge,
engineers say, it often widens and cannot be quickly sealed. Storm
surge waters in Lake Pontchartrain may take a day or more to subside,
so they keep pouring into the city – most of which lies below sea
level – until the levels inside and outside the levee are equal.

Experts familiar with the hurricane risks in the New Orleans area said
they were stunned that no one had conveyed the information about the
breaches or made clear to upper-level officials the grave risk they
posed, or made an effort to warn residents about the threat after
storm winds subsided Monday afternoon.

“I’m shocked. I don’t understand why the response wasn’t
instantaneous,” said Louisiana State University geology professor Greg
Stone, who studies coastal storm surge dynamics.

“They should have been monitoring this and informed people all the way
to the top, (and) then they should have warned people,” said Ivor Van
Heerden, who uses computer models at the LSU Hurricane Center to study
storm surges and provided officials in the Louisiana Office of
Emergency Preparedness headquarters with data indicating the potential
for flooding that could result from Katrina.

www.nola.com

David wrote:

A rough reconstruction of the flooding based on anecdotal accounts,
interviews, and computer modeling, shows that the huge scale of the
overlapping floods – one fast, one slow – should have been clear to
some officials by mid-afternoon Monday, when city representatives
confirmed that the 17th Street canal floodwall had been breached.

At that point areas to the east were submerged from the earlier
flooding, trapping thousands, while gradually rising waters stretched
from the Lakefront across to Mid City and almost to the Central
Business District.

Federal officials have referred to the levee breaches as a separate
and much later event from the flooding to the east, and said that they
were unaware of the gravity of the problem until Tuesday, suggesting
valuable response time was lost.

“It was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was
no possibility of plugging the (17th Street canal) gap and that
essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city. I
think that second catastrophe really caught everybody by surprise,”
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Sunday, adding that
he believed the breach had occurred Monday night or Tuesday morning.
By that time, flooding from at least one of the two breached canals
already had been under way all day Monday, evidence shows.

Even on Tuesday, as still-rising waters covered most of New Orleans,
FEMA official Bill Lokey sounded a reassuring note in a Baton Rouge
briefing.

“I don't want to alarm everybody that, you know, New Orleans is
filling up like a bowl,” Lokey said. “That's just not happening.”

Once a levee or floodwall is breached by a hurricane storm surge,
engineers say, it often widens and cannot be quickly sealed. Storm
surge waters in Lake Pontchartrain may take a day or more to subside,
so they keep pouring into the city – most of which lies below sea
level – until the levels inside and outside the levee are equal.

Experts familiar with the hurricane risks in the New Orleans area said
they were stunned that no one had conveyed the information about the
breaches or made clear to upper-level officials the grave risk they
posed, or made an effort to warn residents about the threat after
storm winds subsided Monday afternoon.

“I’m shocked. I don’t understand why the response wasn’t
instantaneous,” said Louisiana State University geology professor Greg
Stone, who studies coastal storm surge dynamics.

“They should have been monitoring this and informed people all the way
to the top, (and) then they should have warned people,” said Ivor Van
Heerden, who uses computer models at the LSU Hurricane Center to study
storm surges and provided officials in the Louisiana Office of
Emergency Preparedness headquarters with data indicating the potential
for flooding that could result from Katrina.

Damn... it's becoming more and more apparent that the officials in Louisiana
really screwed up as the first line of defense.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

What is worse, is that Bush gave them MORE dike money than Clinton, but
Mayor Nagin spent it elsewhere!

Nagin's worse than any Mayor Daly....

On 11 Sep 2005 08:14:52 -0700, "
wrote:

What is worse, is that Bush gave them MORE dike money than Clinton, but
Mayor Nagin spent it elsewhere!

Nagin's worse than any Mayor Daly....

And for that the people deserve to be ingored for 4 days?

David wrote:

On 11 Sep 2005 08:14:52 -0700, "
wrote:

What is worse, is that Bush gave them MORE dike money than Clinton, but
Mayor Nagin spent it elsewhere!

Nagin's worse than any Mayor Daly....

And for that the people deserve to be ingored for 4 days?

Ignored? No one was being ignored, 'tard boy. Unless of course by ignored you
mean that each and every affected individual didn't instantaneously have a FEMA
official there to take them by the hand and lead them to safety.

LMAO at the 'tard yet again!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

" wrote:

What is worse, is that Bush gave them MORE dike money than Clinton, but
Mayor Nagin spent it elsewhere!

Nagin's worse than any Mayor Daly....

Really. Any thinking person has to realize that help is probably not going to
materialize instantaneously from outside the affected area of any disaster.

It's up to the folks right there on the scene to have a effective plan, and be
able to put that plan into place to be able to weather the storm (no pun
intended) until additional help can arrive.

As I recall it, they were warned in the past that Federal help may not arrive
for several days. They did not heed that warning.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

wrote:
What is worse, is that Bush gave them MORE dike money than Clinton, but
Mayor Nagin spent it elsewhere!

Nagin's worse than any Mayor Daly....


Nagin thought that was DYKE money, and invited all the lesbians to the
annual New Orleans gay Decadence Parade, which thankfully got
pre-empted by Hurricane Katrina.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:08:01 -0400, dxAce
wrote:



Damn... it's becoming more and more apparent that the officials in Louisiana
really screwed up as the first line of defense.

dxAce
Michigan
USA


They acknowledged before the storm that they would be overwhelmed.
That was FEMA's job.

David wrote:

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:08:01 -0400, dxAce
wrote:



Damn... it's becoming more and more apparent that the officials in Louisiana
really screwed up as the first line of defense.

dxAce
Michigan
USA


They acknowledged before the storm that they would be overwhelmed.

Then they should have done MORE prior to the storm, 'tard boy, instead of sitting
around picking their dingle-berry's like the typical liberal ****stains that they
are waiting for someone else to come along and bail (no pun intended) them out.

That was FEMA's job.

It's NOT FEMA's job PRIOR to the storm, ****-for-brains, it's FEMA's job to come
in AFTER a disaster or catastrophe. Prior to the storm or catastrophe it's up to
local or State government to handle their own damn affairs.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

cheney said,, er,,ahh,,oh forget it.(or something like that) in
Gulfport,Mississippi.cheney is originally from Nebraska,, I will let him
slide on that.
cuhulin