Moon Bounce
 

The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

73 SR!

Moon Bounce
 

Even very weak signals travel up out of Earth's Atmosphere and they keep
on traveling into outer Space forever.That's how ET phoned home.
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

On 2005-10-20 23:21:00 -0400, SR said:

The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

73 SR!


Oh it's true, hams do it all the time. You have to have the right
equiptment/antennas,etc.


--
Chris: "Dad, what's a blowhole for?"
Peter: "I'll tell you what it's NOT for and then you'll know why I can
never go back to Sea World."

Moon Bounce
 

Before satellites became available for eavesdropping the moon was used to
listen to the USSR.

"SR" wrote in message
...
The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

73 SR!

Moon Bounce
 

Amateurs have used moon bounce for many years - requires very exotic
equipment
Several sites at URL:

http://ac6v.com/astronomy.htm
--
CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !






"SeeingEyeDog" wrote in message
...
Before satellites became available for eavesdropping the moon was used to
listen to the USSR.

"SR" wrote in message
...
The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

73 SR!

Moon Bounce
 

U.S.A.bounces signals off the Moon all the time to keep track of how far
the Moon is from Earth at any given time.I have heard/read before about
Hams bouncing signals off the Moon.
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

Yep,and that is what that 1947 "space alien crash" was about near
Roswell,New Mexico.It was a big balloon equipped with spy cameras to
take pictures of Russia's development of their atom bombs,but the
balloon crashed near Roswell.Art Bell and George Noory,space aliens have
Never visited Earth before and they never will either.Our Sun only has
about four and a half billions years of "life" left now,if them
so-called space aliens ever plan to visit Earth,they better hurry up and
get a move on.
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

"SeeingEyeDog" ) writes:
Before satellites became available for eavesdropping the moon was used to
listen to the USSR.

Huh?

The only way you can hear signals bounced off the moon is if they
are aimed there in the first place. That means a deliberate use of
the moon as a passive repeater. It does get around the issue of line of
sight at VHF, but it's not something one can use for "eavesdropping".

Moonbounce was first tried by the US Signal Corp right after WWII, I
think it was 1946. But it needs big antennas and/or high power, and
thus it's really not practicaly until you get into the VHF range of
frequencies. I seem to recall the first moonbounce was around 112MHz.

It didn't take very many years before hams did it, using much less
power and I think smaller antennas. I think it was 1953.

Before there were communication satellites, there were passive satellites
launched where signals were simply bounced off their surface, just
like moonbounce.

There was a time or two in the sixties, after Sam Harris (who had been
one of the better known hams to do moonbounce, but then at the time
it was a relatively small club) moved to Puerto Rico to work at the
radio telescope, that Arecibo was used for amateur moonbounce. With
an antenna that size, there was enough gain that far weaker signals
were receivable, so people with average antennas were able to participate
in the test(s). Sam is credited with the line "if your antenna stays
up all winter, it's too small).

With time, it got easier. Ray Naughton (I spelled that wrong) in
Australia had a lot of space, so he put up stacked rhombic antennas f
for moonbounce, and succeeded even though there was a power limit for
Australian hams at the time of 150Watts or so. His problem was that
the rhombics were fixed, so there was a limited number of days each
month that they were aimed at the moon.

With time, the number of hams capable of moonbounce went up. It became
easier to generate power at the suitable frequencies, and more was
learned about antennas and weak signal work. Solid state helped too,
because they had lower noise figure than most tubes. And once there
were enough with really good stations, it made it easier for others,
because their capability meant that those with smaller antennas could
still do moonbounce.

Michael

"SR" wrote in message
...
The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

73 SR!

Moon Bounce
 

In article , SR wrote:
The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

It's a VHF and microwave thing. You actually illuminate the Moon
with enough power that another station back on Earth can pick up
the reflection. But that requires an antenna that can focus most
of your power on the Moon, a target only 1/2 degree across. Hams,
with 1 kilowatt, can get morse code and slow digital signals (on the
higher bands).

Before satellites the Defense Department was able to send several
teletype channels at at time, maritime mobile. That was with a big dish
and probably 10's of kilowatts. (The best description of using that
equipment, that I've seen, was in a description of the incident where the
USS Liberty, the radio intelligence ship, was attacked by the Israelis.
In the Atlantic Monthly about 10-15 years ago, as I remember).

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Moon Bounce
 

Cuhulin, you'd better listen to Art Bell. There are aliens all around
you, and I don't mean the illegal kind. They're watching you.

Moon Bounce
 

Ahhhhh,there isn't anybody watching me at all.I am fixin to cut the
light and get my beauty sleep.I need to do some work on my house today
and rig up my longggggg two piece plastic pipe handle for my tree saw.
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

That's amazing. Who thought about doing that? Who invented that idea?
Did the Russians ever found out?


SR

SeeingEyeDog wrote:

Before satellites became available for eavesdropping the moon was used to
listen to the USSR.

"SR" wrote in message
...

The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

73 SR!

Moon Bounce
 

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:33:19 GMT, (Mark Zenier)
wrote:

In article , SR wrote:
The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

It's a VHF and microwave thing. You actually illuminate the Moon
with enough power that another station back on Earth can pick up
the reflection. But that requires an antenna that can focus most
of your power on the Moon, a target only 1/2 degree across. Hams,
with 1 kilowatt, can get morse code and slow digital signals (on the
higher bands).
I believe it was first done in the 6 meter band in the 1950's/

Before satellites the Defense Department was able to send several
teletype channels at at time, maritime mobile. That was with a big dish
and probably 10's of kilowatts. (The best description of using that
equipment, that I've seen, was in a description of the incident where the
USS Liberty, the radio intelligence ship, was attacked by the Israelis.
In the Atlantic Monthly about 10-15 years ago, as I remember).

Yes, but that wasn't moonbounce, it was tropo scatter. YOu can only
use Moonbounce when the moon is visible to both ends. Troposcatter
works just about anytime, anywhere. The change in permittivity at the
top of the toposphere will actually bounce a tiny portion of the
microwave signal back down quite reliably. You can get about 600
miles that way. But you need the sort of big dish, and tens of
kilowatts to do it reliably. Only the military could really afford to
use it.

Moon Bounce
 

"matt weber" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:33:19 GMT, (Mark Zenier)
wrote:

[snip]

Before satellites the Defense Department was able to send several
teletype channels at at time, maritime mobile. That was with a big dish
and probably 10's of kilowatts. (The best description of using that
equipment, that I've seen, was in a description of the incident where the
USS Liberty, the radio intelligence ship, was attacked by the Israelis.
In the Atlantic Monthly about 10-15 years ago, as I remember).

Yes, but that wasn't moonbounce, it was tropo scatter. YOu can only
use Moonbounce when the moon is visible to both ends. Troposcatter
works just about anytime, anywhere. The change in permittivity at the
top of the toposphere will actually bounce a tiny portion of the
microwave signal back down quite reliably. You can get about 600
miles that way. But you need the sort of big dish, and tens of
kilowatts to do it reliably. Only the military could really afford to
use it.



The USS Liberty is said to have had moonbounce capability. The moonbounce
antenna is supposed to have been one of the distinctions seperating it from
the Egyptian ship the Isrealis said they thought they were attacking.

The large parabolic antenna in the picture, pointing straight up, seems to
be that moonbounce antenna.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/u123118.jpg

Frank Dresser

Moon Bounce
 

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
news:ZCH6f.169781$qY1.131220@bgtnsc04-
The USS Liberty is said to have had moonbounce capability. The moonbounce
antenna is supposed to have been one of the distinctions seperating it
from
the Egyptian ship the Isrealis said they thought they were attacking.

The large parabolic antenna in the picture, pointing straight up, seems to
be that moonbounce antenna.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/u123118.jpg

Frank Dresser


Isn't the internet a constantly amazing resource? By crikey, there is not a
thing you cannot find on it!

Brad.

Moon Bounce
 

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

The large parabolic antenna in the picture, pointing straight up, seems to
be that moonbounce antenna.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/u123118.jpg

Frank Dresser

You know, that could just be the position the antenna is parked. It might be
a bit of an assumption that the moon is straight up! ;-)

Brad.

Moon Bounce
 

"Brad" bradvk2qq AT w6ir.com wrote in message
...

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

The large parabolic antenna in the picture, pointing straight up, seems
to
be that moonbounce antenna.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/u123118.jpg

Frank Dresser

You know, that could just be the position the antenna is parked. It might
be
a bit of an assumption that the moon is straight up! ;-)

Brad.



I'd assume that antenna could be pointed anywhere from horizon to horizon.

Frank Dresser

Moon Bounce
 

Sometimes,the Moon is straight up overhead.It all Depends on Les
Locklear's Depends.
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

USS Liberty was attacked by Israel.Some of the "people" in cahoots with
U.S.fed govt attacking America are the Zionist Jews and Mossad.I used to
have some sympathy for Israel many years ago,about fifty five years
ago,because of the Holocaust,,,, LOOK! even the Vatican did NOT do
anything to help prevent the Holocaust when the Vatican could have.y'all
want to argue with me about that! Years ago,I showed Lucianne Goldberg
(Lucianne Goldberg,,, [[[[GoldTurd]]] she got her start by writing a
trio of novels about high class prostitutes,, go look it up for
y'allselfs if y'all don't believe me)
Let me be the prez,, BYE,BYE Israel and the whole middle East!!!!!!!!!
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

Go to a mens public toilet,if a Jew is in there,he is going to look at
your d..k to see if you are circumcised.For the record,,,, I still have
"mine",, Ladies.
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

To HELL!!! with them Damn Jews!!!!!,,,,,, I Say,,, Waste Them
All!!!!!!!!!!
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

In article ,
matt weber wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:33:19 GMT, (Mark Zenier)
wrote:
Before satellites the Defense Department was able to send several
teletype channels at at time, maritime mobile. That was with a big dish
and probably 10's of kilowatts. (The best description of using that
equipment, that I've seen, was in a description of the incident where the
USS Liberty, the radio intelligence ship, was attacked by the Israelis.
In the Atlantic Monthly about 10-15 years ago, as I remember).

Yes, but that wasn't moonbounce, it was tropo scatter. YOu can only
use Moonbounce when the moon is visible to both ends. Troposcatter
works just about anytime, anywhere. The change in permittivity at the
top of the toposphere will actually bounce a tiny portion of the
microwave signal back down quite reliably. You can get about 600
miles that way. But you need the sort of big dish, and tens of
kilowatts to do it reliably. Only the military could really afford to
use it.

No, the article specifically stated that it was moonbounce and gave a
DOD rig designation, along with a remark that it was unreliable and a pain
to keep running, especially as they had a limited schedule for contact.
(For the radio intelligence ships, the goal would be to get their
intercepts to NSA headquarters at Fort Detrick in Maryland with as few
intermediaries as possilble).

Somewhere else, Monitoring Times I think, there was a description of
a Washington, DC - Pearl Harbor moonbounce link, so it got used
for fixed point connections, too. Given the expense, this sort of
stuff was probably only used by the highest priority traffic in the
DOD teletype network (AUTODIN?). Encrypted up the yazoo and anybody
who knew about it had their lips sewn shut.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Moon Bounce
 

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:13:45 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:


"matt weber" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:33:19 GMT, (Mark Zenier)
wrote:

[snip]

Before satellites the Defense Department was able to send several
teletype channels at at time, maritime mobile. That was with a big dish
and probably 10's of kilowatts. (The best description of using that
equipment, that I've seen, was in a description of the incident where the
USS Liberty, the radio intelligence ship, was attacked by the Israelis.
In the Atlantic Monthly about 10-15 years ago, as I remember).

Yes, but that wasn't moonbounce, it was tropo scatter. YOu can only
use Moonbounce when the moon is visible to both ends. Troposcatter
works just about anytime, anywhere. The change in permittivity at the
top of the toposphere will actually bounce a tiny portion of the
microwave signal back down quite reliably. You can get about 600
miles that way. But you need the sort of big dish, and tens of
kilowatts to do it reliably. Only the military could really afford to
use it.



The USS Liberty is said to have had moonbounce capability. The moonbounce
antenna is supposed to have been one of the distinctions seperating it from
the Egyptian ship the Isrealis said they thought they were attacking.

The large parabolic antenna in the picture, pointing straight up, seems to
be that moonbounce antenna.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/u123118.jpg

Frank Dresser

Having it pointed straight up is the standard stowed position. At lot
less load on the mounting that way. However it could just as easily be
a tropo scatter antenna, and tropo scatter has the advantage that the
moon doesn't have to visible at both ends of the path.

however it could also have used a communication satellite. I think
only Syncom III was in Geo Syncrhonos orbit at that time, however
there were a number of other sats in LEO and MEO (such as Telstar)
that could have been used, and they would come into view every few
hours and would be usable for 15-30 minutes at a time with a usable
bandwidht of a few MHZ. The Syncom III video wasn't so great, since it
was a 2 Mhz transponder IIRC, and analog Television is 6Mhz.

.. The first Telstar went up in 1962, and I would be indeed surprised
is several Military sats didn't have similar capabilities at that
time. In the fall of 1967 I remember a professor of Meteoroloby at the
University of Wisconsin telling me about a single UHF transponder they
had put on one of the Tiros weather sats in orbit that could be used
(and was used as a voice channel). The roof of the Meteorology
department at UW had a modest steerable corner reflector to use it..
As it was in LEO, it only took about 50 watts on each end.

Moon Bounce
 

"matt weber" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:13:45 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:



Having it pointed straight up is the standard stowed position. At lot
less load on the mounting that way. However it could just as easily be
a tropo scatter antenna, and tropo scatter has the advantage that the
moon doesn't have to visible at both ends of the path.

Wouldn't a moonbounce setup, with high power and a steerable antenna, also
have tropo scatter capability? It wouldn't necessarly go the other way,
however. Equipment which works well enough for tropo scatter might not do
the moonbounce job.


however it could also have used a communication satellite. I think
only Syncom III was in Geo Syncrhonos orbit at that time, however
there were a number of other sats in LEO and MEO (such as Telstar)
that could have been used, and they would come into view every few
hours and would be usable for 15-30 minutes at a time with a usable
bandwidht of a few MHZ. The Syncom III video wasn't so great, since it
was a 2 Mhz transponder IIRC, and analog Television is 6Mhz.

. The first Telstar went up in 1962, and I would be indeed surprised
is several Military sats didn't have similar capabilities at that
time. In the fall of 1967 I remember a professor of Meteoroloby at the
University of Wisconsin telling me about a single UHF transponder they
had put on one of the Tiros weather sats in orbit that could be used
(and was used as a voice channel). The roof of the Meteorology
department at UW had a modest steerable corner reflector to use it..
As it was in LEO, it only took about 50 watts on each end.

Again, what works for moonbounce ought to more than meet the standard for
satellite work.

The Liberty was said to have had moonbounce capability. I'd figure they
used that large parabolic antenna for that purpose. There's no obvious
reason they couldn't have used it for the less demanding tasks of tropo
scatter and satellite comms.

Frank Dresser

Moon Bounce
 

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:33:19 GMT, (Mark Zenier)
wrote:

In article , SR wrote:
The last few evening the moon was almost full and the evening sky was
fairly clear here in New York. I then transmitted on my CB but no DX
only locals.

I read something somewhere that mention about Moon Bouncing. Meaning
that a signal can travel far. But I am not sure if that is true.

It's a VHF and microwave thing. You actually illuminate the Moon
with enough power that another station back on Earth can pick up
the reflection. But that requires an antenna that can focus most
of your power on the Moon, a target only 1/2 degree across. Hams,
with 1 kilowatt, can get morse code and slow digital signals (on the
higher bands).

Back in the 60s or so, there was a TV program where a panel
was supposed to guess a guest's secret. For one guest, they said that
there was a special condition -- the guest's answer to a question
would be delayed a number of seconds. The secret was that the answer
was being moon-bounced.



Before satellites the Defense Department was able to send several
teletype channels at at time, maritime mobile. That was with a big dish
and probably 10's of kilowatts. (The best description of using that
equipment, that I've seen, was in a description of the incident where the
USS Liberty, the radio intelligence ship, was attacked by the Israelis.
In the Atlantic Monthly about 10-15 years ago, as I remember).

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Moon Bounce
 

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:25:07 +1000, "Brad" bradvk2qq AT w6ir.com
wrote:


"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

The large parabolic antenna in the picture, pointing straight up, seems to
be that moonbounce antenna.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/u123118.jpg

Frank Dresser

You know, that could just be the position the antenna is parked. It might be
a bit of an assumption that the moon is straight up! ;-)

Brad.

Reading closely, you would see that there was no implication
in the previous posting that the antenna was actively in use. Yes, it
may have been parked, under maintenance or so positioned for any
number of other reasons.

Moon Bounce
 

What's My Line?,,, tv series.I used to watch that tv program back in the
1950's.I don't know if it ran into the 1960's or not,I was busy in the
Army and other things.
USS Liberty was busy defending itself against those damn Israelies at
one time.It is tough about the Holocaust,but if I had been the prez back
then,Israel would Cease to Exist!!!
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

Frank Dresser wrote:
Wouldn't a moonbounce setup, with high power and a steerable antenna, also
have tropo scatter capability? It wouldn't necessarly go the other way,
however. Equipment which works well enough for tropo scatter might not do
the moonbounce job.

[snip]

Again, what works for moonbounce ought to more than meet the standard for
satellite work.

The Liberty was said to have had moonbounce capability. I'd figure they
used that large parabolic antenna for that purpose. There's no obvious
reason they couldn't have used it for the less demanding tasks of tropo
scatter and satellite comms.

According to the usslibertyinquiry.com website (which has been off-line
lately), the Liberty did have moonbounce (aka: TRSSCOM) capablity. The
system consisted of an S band transmitter and receiver, and 16'
parabolic reflector antenna. The antenna was steerable. Also on
Liberty was a 10' parabolic antenna, on the forecastle. This was used
for satellite "communications research" and other SHF intercept work --
part of the SRR-20 multichannel receiver and recording system.

There is a bunch of reference information on the usslibertyinquiry.com
forum about Liberty's intercept and communications systems. But for
the past month the site has been down for maintenance. So, I'm unable
to point you to the place where I got the above info.

Moon Bounce
 

I Am Saying it Again,,, If I had ben the prez when Israel attacked USS
Liberty,,, Israel would be long lost History!!! Those peckerheads Would
NOT!!!!! Exist NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I Would Have
NUKED those Isralies OFF the face of this Earth!!!!!!!!!!
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

wrote:
I Am Saying it Again,,, [snip]

Interference on this channel seems quite bad.

Moon Bounce
 

To heck.
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:58:12 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:


"matt weber" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:13:45 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:



Having it pointed straight up is the standard stowed position. At lot
less load on the mounting that way. However it could just as easily be
a tropo scatter antenna, and tropo scatter has the advantage that the
moon doesn't have to visible at both ends of the path.

Wouldn't a moonbounce setup, with high power and a steerable antenna, also
have tropo scatter capability? It wouldn't necessarly go the other way,
however. Equipment which works well enough for tropo scatter might not do
the moonbounce job.

Tropo is probably harder than Moonbounce. That's one of the reasons
there was no civilian use of Tropo. Amateurs were using 1 Kw in the
1950's in the 6 meter band. Admitted very limited bandwidth, but
Tropo needs tens of kilowatts.

I don't doubt the antenna was capable of Moonbounce, but by the mid
1960's, there wasn't a good reason to use Moonbounce any longer. The
geometry had to line up, so you might have wait a long time (12 hours
or more if you were unlucky), whereas a Sat was almost guaranteed to
come into view in a few hours, and if the military had bought capacity
on Syncom (and I have no idea if they did or didn't), they wouldn't
have to wait at all...

Moon Bounce
 

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:58:46 -0500, wrote:

What's My Line?,,,

Close. I just remembered -- the show was I've Got a Secret.

tv series.I used to watch that tv program back in the
1950's.I don't know if it ran into the 1960's or not,I was busy in the
Army and other things.
USS Liberty was busy defending itself against those damn Israelies at
one time.It is tough about the Holocaust,but if I had been the prez back
then,Israel would Cease to Exist!!!
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

"matt weber" wrote in message
...

Wouldn't a moonbounce setup, with high power and a steerable antenna,
also
have tropo scatter capability? It wouldn't necessarly go the other way,
however. Equipment which works well enough for tropo scatter might not
do
the moonbounce job.

Tropo is probably harder than Moonbounce.

That's an overgeneralization. There's no way it would be easier to
moonbounce a signal to a location 20 miles over the horizon than it would be
to use tropo scatter.


That's one of the reasons
there was no civilian use of Tropo. Amateurs were using 1 Kw in the
1950's in the 6 meter band.

No civilian use as of when? The 1964 ARRL handbook says:

"Tropospheric scatter is prevalent all through the v.h.f. and microwave
regions, and is usable over distances up to about 400 miles."

The 1955 handbook also mentions tropospheric propagation at vhf and above,
but isn't so specific.

The biggest problem with early vhf work wasn't a lack of power or
insufficently high gain antennas, it was unstable oscillators. Those
oscillators drifted, and the radios had to have an otherwise excessively
wide IF bandwidth in order to allow for the drift. Getting a very narrow CW
bandwidth at vhf, for a decent signal to noise ratio, was almost impossible.

By the way, the 1983 handbook says:

"Most EME signals tend to be near the threshold of readability, a condition
caused by a combination of path loss, Faraday rotation and libration
fading."

It seems early 60s radio amateur equipment would work for tropo scatter, up
to about 400 miles. A later generation of such equipment would have to work
signals near the threshold of readability.




Admitted very limited bandwidth, but
Tropo needs tens of kilowatts.

The ARRL says different.


I don't doubt the antenna was capable of Moonbounce, but by the mid
1960's, there wasn't a good reason to use Moonbounce any longer. The
geometry had to line up, so you might have wait a long time (12 hours
or more if you were unlucky), whereas a Sat was almost guaranteed to
come into view in a few hours, and if the military had bought capacity
on Syncom (and I have no idea if they did or didn't), they wouldn't
have to wait at all...



There was, and is, a very good reason for the military to have moonbounce
capability. Things go wrong. Things break. Things get attacked. The more
options we have, the better chance we have to keep a bad situation from
getting totally fouled up. That's true, even for very difficult options
like moonbounce.

Frank Dresser

Moon Bounce
 

I wonder if Moonbounce had anything to do with www.kagnewstation.com
in Africa.Luke lives in Hattiesburg,Mississippi and he sometimes post at
www.pipelinenews.org (it might be a dot com) and he worked in
deciphering radio messages at Kagnew Station.Although Kagnew Station
was/is U.S.Army.
cuhulin

Moon Bounce
 

There was an ATT commercial Tropo link from Florida Keys to Cuba for
years. 900 MHz I think. The huge dishes (a pair) were standing for years
off Card Sound road. Probably gone now. I wish I had thought to play
radio using the feed point. Probably great 2 meter tropo DX on the ham band!

Tropo is probably harder than Moonbounce. That's one of the reasons
there was no civilian use of Tropo. Amateurs were using 1 Kw in the
1950's in the 6 meter band. Admitted very limited bandwidth, but
Tropo needs tens of kilowatts.

I don't doubt the antenna was capable of Moonbounce, but by the mid
1960's, there wasn't a good reason to use Moonbounce any longer. The
geometry had to line up, so you might have wait a long time (12 hours
or more if you were unlucky), whereas a Sat was almost guaranteed to
come into view in a few hours, and if the military had bought capacity
on Syncom (and I have no idea if they did or didn't), they wouldn't
have to wait at all...





--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"

The Lost Deep Thoughts By: Jack Handey
Before a mad scientist goes mad, there's probably a time
when he's only partially mad. And this is the time when he's
going to throw his best parties.